AAS & CKD?

[njmuscleguy]

Hey peeps... I'm taking a chance that it's ok to post this in the AAS forum because it's relevant... I have a few questions about leaning down and CKD.... I know some guys do a "bulking cycle", some do a "leaning cycle"... essentially, it all comes down to diet... I'm just starting to read-up on CKD... seems a little intense but doable... I'm currently on a second PCT (1st one didn't work out well)... in a few months, I'll be starting my spring cycle of Tren + T-bol + Test Enth... my goal is get some lean, strong gains by eating all clean foods....

So question is, when is a good time to do CKD? During a cycle? During PCT? After PCT? I suppose if you're trying to get lean during a cycle, you can follow CKD at the same time but it seems challenging.... Sorry for the uninformed questions.... like I said, just starting to read up on it and trying to figure out where a diet like that could fit into the AAS lifestyle...

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[itlnstln]

sent you a PM

 

[Ulter]

While there are those who like the CKD method and do well with it, I don't like it. I don't think it has any place in a training athlete's life. The biggest advantage to it is the lower insulin levels that allow for more fat burning. Glucorell does that. When I look at pics of Bunny or others from this board who have dropped a lot of weight and gotten ridiculously lean on a normal clean diet and the right supps it just reinforces what I have always said about CKD. It's great if you're sedentary but not if you're weight training.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I actually agree with you Ulter... alot....my understanding so far of the CKD is that it shifts the body from burning glycogen to fats.... but since we're concerned with anaerobic activity (weight-lifting), then fat can't be used directly as fuel... only carbs can be used as an energy source... but that's where the "carb-up" loading phase on weekends comes into play? I was reading that most studies done for CKD involved aerobic activities as opposed to heavy weight training... so any recommendations being made for lifters are extrapolated from the data they have for aerobic-type athletes

So I'm guessing that a better time to attempt CKD would be when not cycling?

I'm not sure if I have to go to the extreme of CKD... I think by getting back onto a clean diet and just monitoring everything should be ok... and glucorell and sesamax should help too

 

[swordfish151]

Its actually a good question..the CKD though while on a cycle is a little intense for my taste...be interested in hearing those that have done the CKD and juiced...

 

[Makavelli]

I disagree with you Ulter. I think it's the first time. A CKD is great for people that have a hard time getting lean on a traditional diet. It's also great for athletes that are over 10% bodyfat. I've done years of experiments with this diet and have tested it on athletes, bodybuilders, figure, and fitness competitors. It's been useful and has worked great for the individuals that did it perfectly. Not everyone has to do this diet, but for those that do it's a God send.

 

[tiggerizme]

Hmm, very interesting. So no CKD while cycling? Was that the final decision?

 

[Makavelli]

There's no perfect time for a ckd. You can use it while on or off. It works either way.

 

[swordfish151]

There's no perfect time for a ckd. You can use it while on or off. It works either way.

I have the book on e-book on CKD...maybe i should spend some time reading it...what do you think of test prop/tren ace/winny/eq and the CKD diet?

 

[Makavelli]

I have the book on e-book on CKD...maybe i should spend some time reading it...what do you think of test prop/tren ace/winny/eq and the CKD diet?

It works great bro. You know that's my cycle dawg... . Again you may not have to use the CKD, but if you do it will work.

 

[Ulter]

I wondered when you were going to show up, I was beginning to worry about you

 

[swordfish151]

It works great bro. You know that's my cycle dawg... . Again you may not have to use the CKD, but if you do it will work.

Yeah i know you love that cycle ...just trying to see if its "beneficial" for optimal fat loss and muscle gain to do the CKD on this cycle.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I have the book on e-book on CKD...maybe i should spend some time reading it...what do you think of test prop/tren ace/winny/eq and the CKD diet?

gonna do the same... let me know what you decide bro!

 

[jmt24]

ive been researching the ckd and think im going to give it a try after my bulking cycle. i have a hard time getting under 11% bf.

 

[Mr.X]

I actually agree with you Ulter... alot....my understanding so far of the CKD is that it shifts the body from burning glycogen to fats.... but since we're concerned with anaerobic activity (weight-lifting), then fat can't be used directly as fuel... only carbs can be used as an energy source... but that's where the "carb-up" loading phase on weekends comes into play?

The body uses ketones as fuel during the first phases of the ketogenic diet, which can be used by many bodily tissues as fuel. The 3 ketone types are acetoacetate (AcAc), beta-hydroxybutyrate (BHB) and acetone. AcAc and BHB are produced from the condensation of acetyl-CoA - product of incomplete breakdown of free fatty acids (FFA) in the liver. During the first few weeks of ketosis, or what I call the "break in" stage, the body uses a LOT of ketones, especially muscle tissue, to help adapt to the ketogenic phase. As you spend more time in ketosis (around 3 weeks), the body will adapt to the new metabolic shift and most tissues (except the brain) will lower their dependence on ketones (almost to nothing) and the new fuel will be provided by the breakdown of free fatty acids (FFA). Almost all your tissues can use this as fuel. Although the brain
and a few other tissues (bone marrow) can't use FFA or ketones exclusively, all tissues in the body can use FFA or ketones for fuel when carbohydrates are not available.

 

[Mr.X]

To answer the questions here. CKD is a broad term. Yes, I know it stands a specific diet, but it gets used (misused) for all types of ketogenic diets.

Almost any bodybuilder can be successful with a derivative of a ketogenic diet, designed to suit his needs. A guy trying to gain mass (bulk) will be happy with the Anabolic Diet, while a guy trying to lean out will do much better with a straight CKD. On the other hand, someone trying to do both (very hard) can get great results with a BodyOpus.

I found the individuals who do best on ketogenic diets are the ones with insulin sensitivity issues, and usually above 10-12% bodyfat to start with.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I found the individuals who do best on ketogenic diets are the ones with insulin sensitivity issues, and usually above 10-12% bodyfat to start with.

Well, I may be going out on a very thin limb here.... but I'm guessing most of us are somewhat higher in BF than 10-12%

I guess my original question was two-fold.... When is the most effective time to do a CKD (it seems the answer to this is "anytime")...

The second part is, when is the EASIEST time to do CKD:
- while you're "ON" and bulking
- while you're "ON" and cutting
- when you're "OFF"

 

[Mr.X]

Well, I may be going out on a very thin limb here.... but I'm guessing most of us are somewhat higher in BF than 10-12%

I guess my original question was two-fold.... When is the most effective time to do a CKD (it seems the answer to this is "anytime")...

The second part is, when is the EASIEST time to do CKD:
- while you're "ON" and bulking
- while you're "ON" and cutting
- when you're "OFF"

There is no "easiest" time. CKD, variants of it - as I explained, can be done for bulking and cutting alike.

 

[BUBBLES]

i have one question about CKD and I hope someone can answer it

can I have diet coke or diet pepsi with it?

 

[Mr.Muscle]

What is CKD?

 

[BUBBLES]

Cyclical Ketogenic Diet

 

[njmuscleguy]

i have one question about CKD and I hope someone can answer it

can I have diet coke or diet pepsi with it?

I'm guessing you can...there's no sugar.... but in general, if you're serious about your diet and your health, you'd stay away from anything with artificial sweeteners.... aspartame is just not good for ya... I use stevia whenever I need to sweeten something up

 

[Makavelli]

I'm guessing you can...there's no sugar.... but in general, if you're serious about your diet and your health, you'd stay away from anything with artificial sweeteners.... aspartame is just not good for ya... I use stevia whenever I need to sweeten something up

No you can't. Not when you first start the diet. The aspartame will keep you out of Ketosis.

To answer the original question I would say a ckd works best for people that have bad insulin sensitivity, are > 10% bodyfat, and traditional bodybuilding diets cause too much muscle loss for them.

I would use an iso cal diet for bulking. You need carbs when you are trying to put on lots of mass. Insulin will greatly accelerate your muscle growth.

Yes, all tissues can use ketones for fuel as X said, even your muscles.

 

[marvelous54]

Its actually a good question..the CKD though while on a cycle is a little intense for my taste...be interested in hearing those that have done the CKD and juiced...

I was trying to do it with this cycle. My workouts sucked and my bp went out the roof. I had to drop it and cut my sodium and fat intake way back. My bp is coming back down now but Im trying to create a diet on the run, hopefully I 'll get things back on track. I still have 10wks left so we'll see. I wouldn't reccomend it from my experience.

 

[Mr.X]

No you can't. Not when you first start the diet. The aspartame will keep you out of Ketosis.
.

Although I'm against sodas in general, especially diet ones, a bit of a correction is needed. Drinking diet sodas gives you a false negative saying you're not in ketosis - on the keto strip, but that's about it. Besides the carbonation effecting digestion, soda is not going to kick you out of ketosis.

 

[BUBBLES]

What do you do when you crave certain BAD foods which are not meant to be outside the CKD diet??


I am carving SUGAR so bad right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mr.X]

What do you do when you crave certain BAD foods which are not meant to be outside the CKD diet??


I am carving SUGAR so bad right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sugar free jello is ok to have. Keep in mind, I'm against all processed foods, but dieters need help once in a while.

 

[dr_skier]

mix sugar free jello pudding with sugar free coolwhip for a low- cal no sugar treat

 

[steelmass]

While there are those who like the CKD method and do well with it, I don't like it. I don't think it has any place in a training athlete's life. The biggest advantage to it is the lower insulin levels that allow for more fat burning. Glucorell does that. When I look at pics of Bunny or others from this board who have dropped a lot of weight and gotten ridiculously lean on a normal clean diet and the right supps it just reinforces what I have always said about CKD. It's great if you're sedentary but not if you're weight training.

Glucorell allows me to eat carbs again ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

[racoon_city]

The ckd isnt for everyone, i can hardly eat anything on it my appetite goes south. its good and bad

 

[swordfish151]

This is true...i was reading on the CKD and t3 usage by the body in the diet...how would supplemting t3 while on CKD help or not help?

 

[viczeva]

It works great bro. You know that's my cycle dawg... .

why is that ? what kind of gains do u get? thanx bro, interested to learn about it.

 

[StRoNg_WoN]

Sorry to bump such an old thread... but I was planning on doing the Anabolic Diet to bulk... I'm generally an ectomorph though... and I read on another board that it wasn't the best idea for someone like me... HOWEVER I have another buddy that followed it to the letter and gained 15lbs or so in 3 months... and could still see his 6 pack... Seems worth a shot...