A question for the MD's regarding Nolvadex

[Juice Authority]

The wife and I would like to have twins. I'm 2 months off a cycle and my test and sperm production are still fairly low. Nolva helps restore the hpta and the natural production of testosterone. The testis produce both sperm and testosterone so would it be reasonable to assume that Nolva can increase one's sperm production?

Also, clomid was originally designed as a fertility drug for women. I was thinking of starting Nolva and getting the wife on clomid. Any thoughts or suggestions on this?

 

[Juice Authority]

Here's a interesting study that seems to be in line with this thought process.

Effectiveness of combined tamoxifen citrate and testosterone undecanoate treatment in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.

Adamopoulos DA, Pappa A, Billa E, Nicopoulou S, Koukkou E, Michopoulos J.

Department of Endocrinology, Elena Venizelou Hospital, Athens, Greece. [email protected]

OBJECTIVE: To assess the effect of treatment with a combination of the antiestrogen tamoxifen citrate and the androgen testosterone undecanoate on sperm variables and pregnancy incidence in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia and couple subfertility. DESIGN: Prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled trial. SETTING: Clinical research in a tertiary care academic hospital. PATIENT(S): Two hundred twelve men with idiopathic oligozoospermia and 82 normozoospermic men with female factor subfertility. INTERVENTION(S): Oligozoospermic patients were randomly assigned to two treatment groups with tamoxifen citrate, 20 mg/d, and testosterone undecanoate, 120 mg/d (n = 106) or placebo treatment (n = 106) for 6 months. Normozoospermic men were followed for the same period. Couple counseling was part of the intervention in all groups. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Pregnancy incidence and sperm characteristics after 3 and 6 months on medication and 3 months after the end of the trial. RESULT(S): In the active treatment group, total sperm count (median [25th, 75th percentile], 27.1 x 10(6) cells/mL [9.4, 54.0 x 10(6) cells/mL] at baseline and 61.5 x 10(6) cells/mL [28.2, 119.6 x 10(6) cells/mL] at 6 months), progressive motility (mean [+/-SD], 29.7% +/- 12.0% at baseline and 41.6% +/- 13.1% at 6 months), and normal morphology (mean, 41.2% +/- 14.0% at baseline and 56.6% +/- 11.5% at 6 months) were noted. No marked changes were observed in placebo recipients or normozoospermic men. The incidence of spontaneous pregnancy was 33.9% in the active treatment group and 10.3% in the placebo group (36 vs. 11 pregnancies), with a relative risk of 3.195 (95% CI, 2.615 to 3.765). CONCLUSION(S): Treatment with tamoxifen citrate and testosterone undecanoate improved sperm variables and led to a higher incidence of pregnancy in couples with subfertility related to idiopathic oligozoospermia.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 14556812 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Quadsweep]

That does not mean you will have twins. For twins to occur at least Identical twins the fertilized egg splits in two, Nothing to do with you. Also if she has healthy reproductive systems do not fuck with it. Think if the baby came out with birth defects...do not fuck with the miracle of life.

Quad

 

[Juice Authority]

That does not mean you will have twins. For twins to occur at least Identical twins the fertilized egg splits in two, Nothing to do with you. Also if she has healthy reproductive systems do not fuck with it. Think if the baby came out with birth defects...do not fuck with the miracle of life.

Quad

Wouldn't you agree that the use of fertility drugs dramatically increases the chances of having twins or triplets?

 

[satchboogie]

Think if the baby came out with birth defects...do not fuck with the miracle of life.

Quad

or you may have twins looking like the dudes in your avatar...

 

[Juice Authority]

Here's a study that shows it has little to no effect on increase sperm production.

Human chorionic gonadotropin free beta-subunit in the human seminal plasma: a new marker for spermatogenesis?

Caroppo E, Niederberger C, Iacovazzi PA, Correale M, Palagiano A, D'Amato G.

Operative Unit of Pathophysiology of Human Reproduction, IRCCS "S. De Bellis", Via della Resistenza, 70013 Grotte Castellana (Ba), Italy. [email protected]

In the past 20 years, several factors were detected in the human seminal plasma and proposed as markers for spermatogenesis. Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and its beta-subunit were therefore investigated, and their seminal levels were found to be higher than those detected in the serum and to correlate with sperm parameters. OBJECTIVE: We designed a retrospective study to determine the suitability of hCG free beta-subunit concentration in the seminal plasma of fertile and infertile male patients as marker of spermatogenesis. STUDY DESIGN: A total of 79 infertile male patients were divided into four groups by their semen analysis results (group 1 [n=8]: azoospermia; group 2 [n=21]: severe oligozoospermia; group 3 [n=40]: oligoasthenospermia (OAS); group 4 [n=10]: asthenospermia) and 10 healthy volunteers of proven fertility were evaluated. RESULTS: The hCG free beta-subunit levels in the seminal plasma were found to be significantly higher (P<0.0001) in the control group in respect to those assayed in the infertile patients and showed a correlation with sperm count (r=0.5) and total motile sperm density (r=0.5). Twenty-five patients were on treatment with oral Mesterolone (100mg daily) plus Tamoxifen (20mg daily) for 3-6 months. Apart from a significant improvement (P<0.05) in sperm morphology, no significant changes in sperm count and motility were observed after the treatment in all the patients. In the seminal plasma of 10 patients who showed a significant increase in sperm count, hCG free beta-subunit levels were found to be significantly higher compared to those detected in the remaining patients (P<0.01). In all patients, these levels remained unchanged after the treatment. CONCLUSIONS: The evidence regarding the positive correlation between hCG free beta-subunit levels in the seminal plasma and sperm concentration is consistent with the previous results regarding hCG levels. A previous study demonstrated that testosterone levels in seminal plasma correlated with sperm concentrations; from the same evidence regarding hCG we hypothesize that seminal plasma testosterone and hCG levels are correlated. Thus, hCG may play a paracrine role in the intratesticular regulation of testosterone secretion.

PMID: 12551786 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Juice Authority]

^^^

 

[Juice Authority]

Here's some interesting information on the subject. Take note of how much money it's cost to obtain Clomid and HCG through a MD.

"Just as women need the right balance of hormones to ovulate regularly, men need certain hormones to produce healthy sperm. Surprisingly, the same substances control these reproductive functions in both men and women — so the same fertility drugs that stimulate ovulation stimulate sperm production.

The catch is that the drugs don't perform nearly as well for men (success rates are about a third of those for women), and the FDA hasn't yet approved them for use in men, though a specialist can prescribe them. Very few studies have been done on the effects of fertility drugs on men, and those few agree on just one thing: The drugs can help only men with specific hormonal imbalances.

The drugs and how they work
The two most popular fertility drugs for women, clomiphene and human menopausal gonadotropin (hMG) used with human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG), are also used to treat men with primary hypogonadotropic hypogonadism — a hormone deficiency in the pituitary gland or hypothalamus that prevents the testicles from receiving the signal to make sperm.

Clomiphene (taken daily as a pill) prompts the pituitary gland to make luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone, which tell the testicles to produce testosterone and possibly more sperm. HCG (injected two to three times a week, sometimes with hMG) prompts the testes to produce testosterone and sperm directly.

Is it for you?
Your doctor may prescribe fertility drugs if you have a hormonal imbalance (originating in the pituitary gland or hypothalamus) linked to a low sperm count; sometimes a doctor will also prescribe them for poor sperm quality and motility (its ability to move). (To learn about other factors that can cause fertility problems in men, see our article.)

Length of treatment
For men, a cycle of clomiphene consists of taking one pill a day for three to six months, and a cycle of hCG means having two to three injections a week for six months. (If your body doesn't respond to hCG, your doctor may suggest that you also take hMG.)

Taking fertility drugs for longer periods doesn't improve your chance of success, so if you take one for more than three months and your partner doesn't get pregnant, your doctor may increase the dosage, switch you to another medication, or, most likely, suggest another kind of treatment. However, as long as your hormone levels stay normal, you can safely take clomiphene in low doses for six months to a year.

Success rate
Although success is far from guaranteed, fertility drugs can help jump-start your sperm production, boosting your count to 20 million or more (anything under 20 million is considered low). If the medication works, you won't have to think about undergoing a testicle biopsy to see what else might be wrong with your sperm.

Some studies cite an estimated 20 to 25 percent pregnancy rate for couples when the man has used fertility drugs. That's low compared to the rates for women on fertility drugs, which is 20 to 60 percent. But even the latter number loses some of its punch when you consider that it's about the same rate couples battling a low sperm count or poor sperm quality can expect for a spontaneous pregnancy with no treatment at all.

Side effects
In men, both clomiphene and hMG can cause temporary blurred vision, breast enlargement and tenderness, and weight gain. In rare cases, clomiphene can cause liver damage.

Cost
In the United States, you should expect to spend about $200 to $500 on a month's worth of clomiphene, or $120 to $200 on a month's worth of hCG. If your insurance policy doesn't cover these drugs, you'll have to pay the cost up front."

 

[jubei]

Wow, they should email ***.

 

[genarr3]

As Quad has already stated. If your wife has a normal functioning reproductive system don't mess with it. This is a no brainer.

 

[Laser0001]

Don't be playing god. J/K

I have a set of triplets that turn 9 years old tomorrow,they were concieved naturally and I have 3 others, come over to my house for a couple of hours and you and your wife would probably be cured of that want.

 

[SNlPER]

Laser, that's fucking funny man................ maybe you could start a small home-business. I'd like to bring my girl by, just so that you could change her mind about having ANY kids......... no sir. just kidding. happy holidays bros.....

 

[Juice Authority]

As Quad has already stated. If your wife has a normal functioning reproductive system don't mess with it. This is a no brainer.

It's not really her I'm worried about, it's me.

 

[Juice Authority]

Don't be playing god. J/K

I have a set of triplets that turn 9 years old tomorrow,they were concieved naturally and I have 3 others, come over to my house for a couple of hours and you and your wife would probably be cured of that want.

We already have a 20 month old boy. Twins would be the most we could handle.

 

[bicepts101]

Wouldn't you agree that the use of fertility drugs dramatically increases the chances of having twins or triplets?

i dont see any problem with you taking those drugs

but i agree with the others, keep her off the clomid

 

[Laser0001]

Wouldn't you agree that the use of fertility drugs dramatically increases the chances of having twins or triplets?

Or even more for that matter.... and the sad truth is that you may have to eliminate some for a safe pregnancy.

 

[Juice Authority]

Can anyone accurately answer this question:

Does taking Nolva increase sperm count and production in males?

 

[b1ewsw32]

Can anyone accurately answer this question:

Does taking Nolva increase sperm count and production in males?

Juice...according to the studies I have investigated, there is some controversy. However there is a large body of evidence supporting the fact that tamoxifen can be used for male infertility in males with normogonadotropic oligozoospermia as well as idiopathic and other types of hypogonadotropic oligozoospermia.
Keep in mind that even if sperm count and concentrations may increase, sperm motility is a major determinant of pregnancy outcome.

Tamoxifen treatment in male infertility. I. Effect on spermatozoa.

Kotoulas IG, Cardamakis E, Michopoulos J, Mitropoulos D, Dounis A.

Department of Gynecology, General Hospital of Athens, Greece.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effects of tamoxifen treatment on sperm density, motility, vitality, and morphology. DESIGN: Placebo-controlled, randomized study. SETTING: Outpatient department. INTERVENTIONS: Patients were assigned to two comparable groups: group A (n = 122) was treated with 10 mg tamoxifen twice daily for a period of 3 months and group B (n = 117) was given placebo for the same period of time, following a previously randomized design. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: In every patient sperm density, motility, viability, and morphology were evaluated 3 months after cessation of treatment. RESULTS: Mean sperm density in group A improved significantly with a more pronounced improvement in severe oligozoospermic men. Sperm density was found significantly improved compared with group B. Dead spermatozoa in group A significantly decreased after tamoxifen treatment and were also found significantly decreased compared with group B. CONCLUSION: It is concluded that tamoxifen exerts a beneficial effect on sperm density and number of live spermatozoa but it has no substantial effect in sperm motility and morphology.

Hormonal changes in tamoxifen treated men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.

Hampl R, Heresova J, Lachman M, Sulcova J, Starka L.

Research Institute of Endocrinology, Prague/Czechoslovakia.

Three months of tamoxifen treatment of 43 men with idiopathic oligozoospermia, out of which 20 completed the study, resulted in a significant enhancement of sperm motility, but the improvement of sperm parameters was in no relation to the FSH response to short time tamoxifen treatment. There was a significant increase of testosterone, estradiol, LH, FSH, SHBG, 17 alpha-hydroxy-progesterone and also of 11 beta-hydroxyandrostenedione, an androgen of exclusively adrenal origin, during the treatment and (with the exception of the latter), on the first week after discontinuation of the therapy. Significantly elevated testosterone and SHBG concentrations were retained still 9 weeks after finishing of the therapy. The results confirm that tamoxifen treatment provides conditions more favourable for conception and demonstrate that also adrenal steroidogenesis is positively influenced by this antiestrogen.

Improvement in semen quality in infertile males after treatment with tamoxifen.

Lewis-Jones DI, Lynch RV, Machin DC, Desmond AD.

Department of Human Anatomy, University of Liverpool, U.K.

The effect of the anti-oestrogen Tamoxifen on the seminal quality of 131 men was studied. Parameters studied before and after treatment were sperm density, total ejaculate count, percentage progressive motility, progressively motile ejaculate count, percentage total motility and total motile ejaculate count. In a group of 38 males, the effect on serum LH, FSH, testosterone, oestradiol and prolactin was also studied. Tamoxifen significantly improved (p less than 0.05) the progressive motility in all patient groups where there was reduced pretreatment motility. Sperm density was also significantly improved in oligozoospermic patients. Elevations in the basal serum levels of FSH was noted, even in those patients where the basal level was elevated before treatment. Increases were also observed in the serum levels of the four other hormones studied.

Tamoxifen treatment in oligozoospermia.

Bartsch G, Scheiber K.

This study of the effects of long-term tamoxifen administration on semen analysis of oligospermic males confirms the potential therapeutic efficacy in normogonadotrophic oligospermia. 38 out of the 56 patients responded well to long-term treatment with 30 mg tamoxifen daily. According to the nomenclature of Eliasson, 32 patients reached normal sperm density and 16 patients normal sperm motility after tamoxifen treatment. In the group of responders a pregnancy rate of 34% is obtained. As far as the endocrinological parameters are concerned normogonadotrophic patients (responders and non-responders) showed an increase in testosterone, 17beta-estradiol, LH and FSH levels, whereas the levels of prolactin and testosterone/estradiol-binding globulin remained unchanged. No alterations at all were seen with regard to semen volume, during the time of tamoxifen treatment.

: Andrologia. 1980 Nov-Dec;12(6):546-8. Related Articles, Links


Tamoxifen treatment of oligozoospermia.

Schill WB, Landthaler M.

33 subfertile men with idiopathic normogonadotropic oligozoospermia were treated with the non-steroidal antiestrogen tamoxifen. A significant improvement of sperm count, total sperm output and sperm motility was observed.

I hope this answered your question efficiently. Peace...B32

 

[SAMINACAN]

Juice Authority AND b1ewsw32 ARE SERIOUS INVESTIGATORS AND RESEARCHERS R.E.S.P.E.C.T !!!!!!!!

 

[b1ewsw32]

Juice Authority AND b1ewsw32 ARE SERIOUS INVESTIGATORS AND RESEARCHERS R.E.S.P.E.C.T !!!!!!!!

Thanks SAMINACAN. This is what it's all about, helping each other and learning from everyone's obstacles and sharing information that can help out all members from the EF boards, whether they're newbies or have been here for years with 10,000 + posts. I believe you can learn something from everyone provided that their information/experiences are accurate.

Peace..B32

 

[Juice Authority]

b1ewsw32 - you da man! Excellent work. Thanks. Karma to you.

Unfortunately there seems to be conflicting results between the studies you posted as well as the ones I posted. One study shows that Nolva increases count and concentration but has no effect on sperm mobolity. The other studies show that after a certain amount of time there was a significant increase in sperm mobility.

I'm inclined to believe that Nolva does in fact increase sperm production and mobility at dosages of 20mg or higher for a period of at least 3 months. My plan to start at 40mg's ed for a month and then have my sperm counted. It will be interesting to see the results.

 

[b1ewsw32]

J.A. you may also want to consider the incorporation of the phytochemical Maca, as I was going through an old posted abstract regarding the use of Maca to increase seminal volume, I noticed that it also has been shown to increase sperm parameters as well as motility. Dont forget to access the free full-text journal version.


: Asian J Androl. 2001 Dec;3(4):301-3. Related Articles, Links


Lepidium meyenii (Maca) improved semen parameters in adult men.

Gonzales GF, Cordova A, Gonzales C, Chung A, Vega K, Villena A.

Department of Physiological Sciences, Faculty of Sciences and Philosophy and Instituto de Investigaciones de la Altura, Universidad Peruana Cayetano Heredia, Lima, Peru. [email protected]

AIM: The present study was designed to determine the effect of a 4-month oral treatment with tablets of Lepidium meyenii (Maca) on seminal analysis in nine adult normal men aged 24-44 years old. METHODS: Nine men received tablets of Maca (1500 or 3000 mg/day) for 4 months. Seminal analysis was performed according to guidelines of the World Health Organization (WHO). Serum luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), prolactin (PRL), <a onMouseOver="self.status='http://boards.elitefitness.com/testosterone+';return true;" onMouseOut="self.status=''; return true;" onClick="window.open('http://vx01.com/kwin?cl=B52NODTSODEJE25FX0URVN3LNHB3EWMJ&mcl=1e4ba4399146fee697d2da68877f1cf6&kw=testosterone+','_new', 'toolbar=no,menubar=no,location=no,resizable=yes,scrollbars=yes');" href="#">testosterone </a>(T) and estradiol (E2) were measured before and after treatment. RESULTS: Treatment with Maca resulted in increased seminal volume, sperm count per ejaculum, motile sperm count, and sperm motility. Serum hormone levels were not modified with Maca treatment. Increase of sperm count was not related to dose of Maca. CONCLUSION: Maca improved sperm production and sperm motility by mechanisms not related to LH, FSH, PRL, T and E2.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11561196&dopt=Abstract

B32...

 

[b1ewsw32]

Sorry Bro. That was the wrong Hyperlink. I'm getting tired...Lack of attention. Here you go......http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11753476&dopt=Abstract

B32

 

[Dial_tone]

A steady rise in the rate of twins being born could be explained partly by the significant recent growth in the use of fertility drugs which stimulate ovulation, some experts believe.

Health Insurance Commission figures have shown a one-third increase in prescriptions of clomiphene, or Clomid, between the mid 1990s and early 2000s.

Scripts for the drug - which works by stimulating ovulation and may only be prescribed by specialists - increased from 31,000 in 1995 to 41,000 in 2000.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/09/03/1031037090540.html

http://www.babycenter.com/article/poll/results.jhtml?id=6411

You'll also have a 10 percent chance of conceiving twins with these fertility drugs. (Women sometimes conceive triplets or more, but much less frequently.) Though many couples consider this a blessing, multiple fetuses increase your risk of miscarriage and other complications.

http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/preconception/fertilityproblems/6186.html

Lance Armstrong and his wife had twins after fertility treatments.