a question for conservative thinkers

[Lao Tzu]

Alright, this is a serious question directed at conservative thinkers. I doubt it applies to libertarians, i don't know.

Why do conservative thinkers say they are in favor of less government power over citizens and more in favor of individual rights when it is conservatives who oppose organizations like the ACLU? I admit they can be PC pantywastes and that some of the people/rights they protect aren't really respectable, but they are at the forefront of protecting people from the government.

define 'freedom', 'government repression' and 'rights' for me.

 

[Hangfire]

The ACLU is at the forefront of taking up liberal causes. They generally involve themselves in cases of imagined civil rights and find a way to read them into the Constitution. Of course, when it comes to defending citizens against real government abuse, they are nowhere to be found. Ever hear of the ACLU challenging the government on 2nd Amendment infringement?

Rights come in two flavors--natural and legislated. Our natural rights are those enumerated in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. The lesiglative process has conferred a bunch of extra "rights" upon us that sometimes end up being a bigger pain in the ass than a help.

Freedom is the natural ability to exercise enjoyment of our rights at times and places of our choosing. Freedom is our natural state and is not a gift from the government.

Government repression is restriction of the people's exercise of their natural rights. As for the additional rights that the legislature has conjured up, well---they are actually more like priviledges. Anything the government gives to you, the government can take away.

 

[Lao Tzu]

graci

Does anyone the fact that they protect rights of those unpopular with conservative thinkers (homosexuals, prisoners, drug users, etc) plays a large role in the disdain?


i thought it was because they were so petty and supported minority rule (if one person in a million is offended, people can't do it). In nearby richmond, the ICLU (indiana branch) was suing because there was a 10 commandment plaque at the courthouse.

 

[Hangfire]

Exactly. One of the most often-cited arguments of the ACLU is the "separation of church and state" that is intentionally mis-stated and far from the intent of the Constitution.

People do not have the right to not be offended, contrary to the assertion of former Illinois Senator Carol Moseley Braun, who said she saw it in the U.S. Constitution. Homosexuals are not entitled to special rights or protection, nor are blacks, hispanics, or any other ethnic or by-choice group. If the ACLU really was concerned about the rights of minorities, they would speak up for caucasian males and single fathers.

 

[bwood]

or as you stated earlier, gun owners...

they were there for bernard getz(SP?)...

 

[Testosterone boy]

oppose organizations like the ACLU? I admit they can be PC pantywastes and that some of the people/rights they protect aren't really respectable, but they are at the forefront of protecting people from the government.

[/B]

The ACLU would get squashed like the cockroaches that they are if not for their ability to hide behind the NRA. I'd write more of my thoughts for their hideous organization but all I can think of is killing them. I honestly would do that...gleefully.

My duty as a concerned citizen would be fulfilled.

 

[Frackal]

I have an announcement:

Republicans don't give a FUCK about freedom. They only care about 'enforcing' their own IDEA of freedom, which is usually extremely narrow and facist. They can all go to hell, with Fascistcroft leading them.

 

[Testosterone boy]

I have an announcement:

Republicans are deeply concerned with providing an environment conducive to healthy, happy, and properly functioning families. If it is your goal in life to obliterate the family unit you will feel their opposition.

Well put Frackal, well put.

 

[Frackal]

baaaaaaaa lol Dont get me started on liberals....aka illogical babies lacking self accountability.

 

[p0ink]

I have an announcement:

Republicans don't give a FUCK about freedom. They only care about 'enforcing' their own IDEA of freedom, which is usually extremely narrow and facist. They can all go to hell, with Fascistcroft leading them.

please, cite some examples (besides the war on drugs, because i have already stated a thousand times i am in complete opposition of this).

 

[Testosterone boy]

please, cite some examples (besides the war on drugs, because i have already stated a thousand times i am in complete opposition of this).

I wonder if it is a Republican idea to bring out hundreds of cops to Mardi Gras etc. so girls can be thrown in jail for lifting their shirts up. That is simply insane. My opinion of American mental health got flushed down the toilet when I seen girls get handcuffed and led away because they lifted their shirts.

 

[Sushi X]

makes me glad i'm leaning libertarian again. the democrats, though i support some of them and will over a republican, have really shown their yellow colors in not standing up against the war on iraq. like i said, i'm more moderate than anything but i', leaning with the libertarians again as far as the political sprectrum. but i will still vote for some democrats and libertarians. never again will i vote for a republican.

to site and example p0ink, the militarization of the u.s. the department of homeland security is nothing more than a militirization of the government without actually being 100% military controlled. the whole TIPS thing is a load of crap and a violation of one's RIGHT to privacy no matter who they are. it's all done in the name of SECURITY and i know they argument is going to be it can hell stop terrorists from acting or whatever they do here in the states but at the same time if you have AS on your kitchen table and the cable guy sees it he can report you using the TIPS system and you are off to jail without the RIGHT of due process which is something ashcroft said americans can't affort that luxury at this time. sounds to me like the right to a fair trial and just cause are out while the Fourth Reich(bush admin) are forcing their agenda on people no matter what the cost.

 

[p0ink]

umm...i hope you're joking. that falls under the same common decency laws as the rest of the state. they are just enforcing a law that has been on the books for who knows how long. just because it is mardi gras, does not mean the laws dont count for that day. frankly, i think it is a waste of taxpayer money and law enforcement's time to be doing that.

 

[Intenceman]

Well put Frackal, well put.

Only if the families have a mommy a daddy, kids and go to church and think what they do.
Otherwise there is something wrong with you in their eyes.

 

[2Thick]

If the ACLU really was concerned about the rights of minorities, they would speak up for caucasian males and single fathers.

What is threatening white males?

 

[Sushi X]

What is threatening white males?

affirmative action.

reverse discrimination is still discimination by any means.

 

[Testosterone boy]

umm...i hope you're joking. that falls under the same common decency laws as the rest of the state. they are just enforcing a law that has been on the books for who knows how long. just because it is mardi gras, does not mean the laws dont count for that day. frankly, i think it is a waste of taxpayer money and law enforcement's time to be doing that.

That is true but I wonder who makes the decision to suddenly strongly enforce these laws at a place like Mardi Gras. Girls lifting their shirts are the least of our problems.

I have an axe to grind with officials focusing on enforcing rules that are mindnumbingly easy to enforce. You can see how effective they are at catching a sniper. We may have a chance if he has to take a leak next to the highway.

Decency laws? Who are they to say that the female breast is indecent? It is about the most decent part on some females.

They really want to do something worthwhile? Save thousands of lives and billions of dollars? Develop a method to get a blood sample from all drivers involved in a vehicle accident and check for drugs/alcohol. I don't care about drugs in someones home but I don't like driving with people using them. Why not do this? It would be effective but we have an aversion to effectiveness.

All we had to do to keep hijackers out of the cockpit was put up a real door with a real lock. Instead...we spent billions and have nearly put the major airlines out of business because people don't like to be hassled and strip searched.

 

[2Thick]

umm...i hope you're joking. that falls under the same common decency laws as the rest of the state. they are just enforcing a law that has been on the books for who knows how long. just because it is mardi gras, does not mean the laws dont count for that day. frankly, i think it is a waste of taxpayer money and law enforcement's time to be doing that.

Decency laws? How about common sense and tradition. You would have to living under a rock to not know what goes on at Mardi Gras. It is a blatant enforcement of a police state on adults. How will a criminal record help these young ladies in their future? They will be forced to take lesser jobs and face huge barriers to what would have been a straight line success in most their future(s).

 

[2Thick]

affirmative action.

reverse discrimination is still discimination by any means.

AA is not threatening to white males. It only affects a tiny minority of white males.

I am talking about something that affects the majority of white males.

 

[p0ink]

yes, deceny laws. the same laws that would get you arrested for walking down the street of a retirement village with your cock hanging out. the same shit that would get chicks arrested for flashing in the mall. the same laws that make sodomizing someone with a bottle of jack daniels on the street corner illegal. etc. etc.

i know it's mardi gras, and i already said i think it's stupid and a waste of time/money, but those are the laws. they don't become null and void during mardi gras.

 

[Sushi X]

i know i was making a joke except the part about discrimination being discrimination. that i still believe 100%. no matter what name you call it it's still what it is.

 

[p0ink]

AA is not threatening to white males. It only affects a tiny minority of white males.

I am talking about something that affects the majority of white males.

last i checked, the majority of white males work and apply to schools, so how does that no affect them? do you seriously think white people with better credentials are turned down for a minority with lower credentials, simply to meet some quota?

 

[Testosterone boy]

I don't like comparing the breast to the genitals, their is no logic whatsoever to it. All the supermarket check outs are bulging with magazines that have cleavage hanging out of the front cover. I ask for consistency and logic, that is all.

 

[2Thick]

last i checked, the majority of white males work and apply to schools, so how does that no affect them? do you seriously think white people with better credentials are turned down for a minority with lower credentials, simply to meet some quota?

AA is not a real policy. It is a state of mind that is giving a chance to people that would otherwise get looked over. The person with the best credentials still gets in. It is just that a few spots are reserved for minorities. Just like certain spots are reserved for kids with powerful, rich or influential parentsn (i.e. legacy students).

 

[Warik]

How about common sense and tradition.

Common sense would lead someone to think that parading one's breasts around for all to see is not a wise course of action.

Traditionally, people take responsibility for the stupid things in their lives.

They will be forced to take lesser jobs and face huge barriers to what would have been a straight line success in most their future(s).

So, if they are so intelligent that they would have easily succeeded in life, shouldn't they have been intelligent enough not to put themselves in these situations?

-Warik

 

[Warik]

AA is not threatening to white males. It only affects a tiny minority of white males.

I am talking about something that affects the majority of white males.

This country was founded as a Republic, not a Democracy. Majority rule aka mob rule is fundamental to Democracies. Simply because something only affects a tiny minority of people doesn't make it right. The sniper is affecting only a tiny minority of the country. Does that mean he should be allowed to roam free?

-Warik

 

[p0ink]

to site and example p0ink, the militarization of the u.s. the department of homeland security is nothing more than a militirization of the government without actually being 100% military controlled. the whole TIPS thing is a load of crap and a violation of one's RIGHT to privacy no matter who they are. it's all done in the name of SECURITY and i know they argument is going to be it can hell stop terrorists from acting or whatever they do here in the states but at the same time if you have AS on your kitchen table and the cable guy sees it he can report you using the TIPS system and you are off to jail without the RIGHT of due process which is something ashcroft said americans can't affort that luxury at this time. sounds to me like the right to a fair trial and just cause are out while the Fourth Reich(bush admin) are forcing their agenda on people no matter what the cost.

using the military for law enforcement never even came into reality (thank god), and i dont think it was their intent. they simply said it could be a possibility if a major disaster took place

tips eh? first off, that program was done away with last i checked. secondly, all it was, was an organized way for people to report 'suspicious activity'. do you really think people wouldnt report things if it wasnt for tips? come on.

 

[p0ink]

I don't like comparing the breast to the genitals, their is no logic whatsoever to it. All the supermarket check outs are bulging with magazines that have cleavage hanging out of the front cover. I ask for consistency and logic, that is all.

um, last i checked, tits were blurred out on tv. so if they arent considered genitals, why are they blurred out. and cleavage is not the whole package either. you dont see playboy at the check out counter. there is your consistency and logic.

 

[2Thick]

Common sense would lead someone to think that parading one's breasts around for all to see is not a wise course of action.

Traditionally, people take responsibility for the stupid things in their lives.

Let them take responsibility for what happens. Do not let the government enforce their "consequences" for actions they "think" is not wise.

So, if they are so intelligent that they would have easily succeeded in life, shouldn't they have been intelligent enough not to put themselves in these situations?.

People do not choose to be a certain race, color or creed, yet that is the main reason for being harasses and getting a criminal record. You think middle class kids do not steal, do drugs, commit crimes every single day? Of course they do, but they do not have police in their neighborhoods day and night breathing down their necks waiting for one of them to make a mistake.

You will be wise not to make a smart-ass reply unless you have never committed a crime that is in the criminal code. Because if you have (and i am 100% sure that you have) then you have yourself put yourself in such a situation that you speak of and have no room to make judgments.

 

[2Thick]

This country was founded as a Republic, not a Democracy. Majority rule aka mob rule is fundamental to Democracies. Simply because something only affects a tiny minority of people doesn't make it right. The sniper is affecting only a tiny minority of the country. Does that mean he should be allowed to roam free?

-Warik

Athens was a Republic. The USA is a Democracy. What it was founded has no bearing on what it is today, so do not drag the past into this.

 

[Testosterone boy]

Common sense would lead someone to think that parading one's breasts around for all to see is not a wise course of action.

Traditionally, people take responsibility for the stupid things in their lives.



So, if they are so intelligent that they would have easily succeeded in life, shouldn't they have been intelligent enough not to put themselves in these situations?

-Warik

What is unwise about having fun and providing entertainment in exchange for tangible goods? It is simple trade. They flash their breasts and the guys give them beads. Everyone is entertained and everyone is happy. Noyone gets hurt. Not one little bit. No way and no how.

Until Joe Legalbeagle shows up and handcuffs the girl/s and hauls her to jail.

Have you never partied? Have you never engaged in a frivolous activity that was great fun in the spirit of the event? If the answer is no....you have not fully lived.

Having fun has nothing to do with intelligence.

 

[p0ink]

AA is not a real policy. It is a state of mind that is giving a chance to people that would otherwise get looked over. The person with the best credentials still gets in. It is just that a few spots are reserved for minorities. Just like certain spots are reserved for kids with powerful, rich or influential parentsn (i.e. legacy students).

if you go to a state school, they have to admit a certain amount of minorities in order to keep gettings state funds. i know some smart people who were rejected from my school, while a bunch of fucking retards were let in, simply because they arent white.

 

[2Thick]

if you go to a state school, they have to admit a certain amount of minorities in order to keep gettings state funds. i know some smart people who were rejected from my school, while a bunch of fucking retards were let in, simply because they arent white.

retards? How do you know those "retards" were let in through AA? How do you know they weren't "retards" like Little Bush who got in as a legacy students on his daddy's tailcoat?

If you do not want the extra competition then go to a private school. All people pay taxes to subsidize the state school so they all should have equal opportunity to get in.

 

[Testosterone boy]

um, last i checked, tits were blurred out on tv. so if they arent considered genitals, why are they blurred out. and cleavage is not the whole package either. you dont see playboy at the check out counter. there is your consistency and logic.

I sure would like to see an explanation of how the breast is genetalia. Genitals are used for reproductive purposes. Breasts provide nourishment for babies.

Nationally viewed TV is an entirely different world than Mardi Gras. It is their party, let them party. Who goes to the houses of police parties and incarcerates them for being drunk and disorderly? Who cites them for driving home drunk? How about some consistency?

A large percentage of supermarket customers do not want Playboy at the checkout counter. I doubt that any Mardi Gras partiers are opposed to some flashing.

The police action alienates the public by the scores of tens and thousands. It is an unwise and arrogant government who purposely does this while throwing away tens and thousands of dollars and hurting the futures of dozens of harmless, fun loving girls. Not to mention screwing up the party for everybody else.

It is hard to have fun when a guy with a badge, gun, and bullet proof vest is staring at you while leaning against his cop car and making time and a half while ogling at the girls.

 

[Hangfire]

Athens was a Republic. The USA is a Democracy. What it was founded has no bearing on what it is today, so do not drag the past into this.

Correction. The form of government in the United States of America is a representative republic based on democratic ideals. It is not a democracy.

 

[2Thick]

Correction. The form of government in the United States of America is a representative republic based on democratic ideals. It is not a democracy.

Correction noted.

 

[Warik]

Let them take responsibility for what happens. Do not let the government enforce their "consequences" for actions they "think" is not wise.

Oh, I'm certainly not saying that it should be illegal to parade one's breasts around where everyone else is doing it and no one is being hurt in any which way. You cannot argue, however, that it is stupid to do so when one knows she will be caught and it will have an adverse effect on her future.

People do not choose to be a certain race, color or creed, yet that is the main reason for being harasses and getting a criminal record. You think middle class kids do not steal, do drugs, commit crimes every single day? Of course they do, but they do not have police in their neighborhoods day and night breathing down their necks waiting for one of them to make a mistake.

Just as easily as you argue that one's race or social status determines their criminal records because police harass them more, I can argue that it's because their middle class counterparts are just smarter and don't get caught as often. Each argument is full of an equal amount of shit. By your logic my neighborhood is just as crime-infested as areas in downtown Miami, which is obviously not true.

Even if the police aren't here to throw people in the paddy wagon, I think I'd notice if crimes were being committed left and right.

You will be wise not to make a smart-ass reply unless you have never committed a crime that is in the criminal code. Because if you have (and i am 100% sure that you have) then you have yourself put yourself in such a situation that you speak of and have no room to make judgments.

You can't be 100% sure because you've never seen me commit one, but even if I did, at least I had the intelligence not to do it somewhere that I'd easily get caught.

Faulty logic again. Unless all judges are crime-free, then none of them should have the right to be judges, right? Are we only putting crime-free people on juries now? What about cops? Lawyers? Doctors? lol... have fun filling the job market.

-Warik

 

[Warik]

The USA is a Democracy.

If you believe that is true then I highly suggest you read the Constitution and/or pay more attention to the political process in this country.

What it was founded has no bearing on what it is today

Sure it does. Imagine you owned a company that was founded on the concept of hiring the best-skilled and hardest working employees available on the market. Assume today your company is in the shitter, and each and every one of your employees are former welfare recipients who never graduated high school. Has nothing to do with what you were, right? ook.

-Warik

 

[Testosterone boy]

last i checked, the majority of white males work and apply to schools, so how does that no affect them? do you seriously think white people with better credentials are turned down for a minority with lower credentials, simply to meet some quota?

Of course...happens all the damn time.