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A Celebrity That Actually Gets It.
- Thread starter rjl296
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p0ink
New member
Gene Simmons -- A Celebrity Who Gets It?: Gene Simmons of Kiss, a man who freely admits he's to left of center politically, wrote a surprisingly powerful editorial on his homepage defending the invasion of Iraq and America itself.
"...I have said in this political climate, that I am ashamed of the behavior of people who call themselves either members of the Democratic Party (whose politics I usually support, incidentally) or as Liberals (funny, I always thought I was one). But, I will not hesitate to tell someone off. I believe in a form of politics that supercedes philosophical discussions. I believe in Pragmatism.
Pacifism is a beautiful word. No one wants war. Not you. Not I. But, the most passionate Pacifist is only relatively so. What I mean is, it's easy to be a Pacifist here in America. That's because Hussein and other menaces are far away. The closer a gun is pointed to your head, the less of a Pacifist you are...the more you're interested in stopping the guy pointing the gun to your head.
Granted. Saddam Hussein never pointed a gun to my head. I also never want to wait long enough for him to do so. PRE-EMPTIVE WAR is one of the realities we all have to face. There will never be another 9/11...and I could give a sh*t if there is or isn't a direct line to Hussein. He had to go. Period. That regime wouldn't think twice about giving an extremist a suitcase filled with a dirty bomb.
I am passionate about America. It has given me (and in my estimation, the world) everything I ever wanted... including the right to disagree, without winding up in a can of dog food. And, because of my passionate love of America, warts and all, I will stand up and defend her at the drop of a hat.
Is America always right? No. But for 100 years, it seems to me, it has gotten most of it right. The most powerful force the world has ever known is not conquering other countries. Previous world powers, had a colonial agenda. This included at various times in history: Rome, Greece, Nazi Germany, France, England, Communist Russia and Persia. There are more.
But, aside from the French complaining (don't they always?) about the influx of the AMERICAN CULTURE, I don't see America expanding its borders...All the countries in the world are free to rule themselves as they see fit...as long as they don't threaten anyone else.
..."America, love it or leave it?" I never subscribed to that ideal. It's actually UnAmerican. I DO believe in different opinions. But, I am also ashamed of any American especially, who gets up on stage in a different country to badmouth America, while American troops are dying in a desert country they would never want to live in.
...The war, for the most part is over. The British and the Aussies, (God bless em both,) amid a murky political situation, stood alongside Americans and did what had to be done.
The Iraqi's are free.
I suggest anyone having a problem with this war go talk to the Iraqi's. Ask them if they prefer freedom (even at the price of, initially having what seems to be chaos), or if they prefer Saddam Hussein come back and reinstates the old ways.
I DARE anyone to say the Iraqi's were better off before, under Hussein.
And, after the war dies down, and people here in America go back to normalcy, there will be people who say that they are "non-violent." You don't want to get into fights. But, what that really means is, you don't want to pick on anybody.
Problem is, the bad guys don't always agree with you. You see, if you're against violence and some guy holds a gun to your head and asks you for your money, you better re-think your position. You better become VERY VIOLENT at that moment. Or, you're dead.
Being a Pacifist, is an ideal. I subscribe to it. I'm against violence. But, only CONCEPTUALLY, if you threaten my children, I wouldn't think twice about snapping your neck on the spot. I suspect most people would take my view.
You can tell by the length of this missive, that this issue has gotten under my skin. So, I'll try to recap my feelings, in brief. Get ready, 'cause here comes the truth:
America is the world's only hope for a bright future.
Yes. I mean that. Yes, I know you live in another country and your country is cool, too. But, America is the only Superpower. There are no others. And that means, the world is a better place. Because if Nazi Germany or Communist Russia were the only superpowers, we would all be either dead or forced to live under their regimes.
America is not interested in ruling your country. If you think it does, smoking crack may be your answer.
I wasn't born here. But, I have a love for this country and its people that knows no bounds. I will forever be grateful to America for going into World War II, when it had nothing to gain, in a country that was far away...and rescued my Mother from the Nazi German Concentration Camps.
She is alive and I am alive because of America.
And, if you have a problem with America, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME."
Gene Simmons.
"...I have said in this political climate, that I am ashamed of the behavior of people who call themselves either members of the Democratic Party (whose politics I usually support, incidentally) or as Liberals (funny, I always thought I was one). But, I will not hesitate to tell someone off. I believe in a form of politics that supercedes philosophical discussions. I believe in Pragmatism.
Pacifism is a beautiful word. No one wants war. Not you. Not I. But, the most passionate Pacifist is only relatively so. What I mean is, it's easy to be a Pacifist here in America. That's because Hussein and other menaces are far away. The closer a gun is pointed to your head, the less of a Pacifist you are...the more you're interested in stopping the guy pointing the gun to your head.
Granted. Saddam Hussein never pointed a gun to my head. I also never want to wait long enough for him to do so. PRE-EMPTIVE WAR is one of the realities we all have to face. There will never be another 9/11...and I could give a sh*t if there is or isn't a direct line to Hussein. He had to go. Period. That regime wouldn't think twice about giving an extremist a suitcase filled with a dirty bomb.
I am passionate about America. It has given me (and in my estimation, the world) everything I ever wanted... including the right to disagree, without winding up in a can of dog food. And, because of my passionate love of America, warts and all, I will stand up and defend her at the drop of a hat.
Is America always right? No. But for 100 years, it seems to me, it has gotten most of it right. The most powerful force the world has ever known is not conquering other countries. Previous world powers, had a colonial agenda. This included at various times in history: Rome, Greece, Nazi Germany, France, England, Communist Russia and Persia. There are more.
But, aside from the French complaining (don't they always?) about the influx of the AMERICAN CULTURE, I don't see America expanding its borders...All the countries in the world are free to rule themselves as they see fit...as long as they don't threaten anyone else.
..."America, love it or leave it?" I never subscribed to that ideal. It's actually UnAmerican. I DO believe in different opinions. But, I am also ashamed of any American especially, who gets up on stage in a different country to badmouth America, while American troops are dying in a desert country they would never want to live in.
...The war, for the most part is over. The British and the Aussies, (God bless em both,) amid a murky political situation, stood alongside Americans and did what had to be done.
The Iraqi's are free.
I suggest anyone having a problem with this war go talk to the Iraqi's. Ask them if they prefer freedom (even at the price of, initially having what seems to be chaos), or if they prefer Saddam Hussein come back and reinstates the old ways.
I DARE anyone to say the Iraqi's were better off before, under Hussein.
And, after the war dies down, and people here in America go back to normalcy, there will be people who say that they are "non-violent." You don't want to get into fights. But, what that really means is, you don't want to pick on anybody.
Problem is, the bad guys don't always agree with you. You see, if you're against violence and some guy holds a gun to your head and asks you for your money, you better re-think your position. You better become VERY VIOLENT at that moment. Or, you're dead.
Being a Pacifist, is an ideal. I subscribe to it. I'm against violence. But, only CONCEPTUALLY, if you threaten my children, I wouldn't think twice about snapping your neck on the spot. I suspect most people would take my view.
You can tell by the length of this missive, that this issue has gotten under my skin. So, I'll try to recap my feelings, in brief. Get ready, 'cause here comes the truth:
America is the world's only hope for a bright future.
Yes. I mean that. Yes, I know you live in another country and your country is cool, too. But, America is the only Superpower. There are no others. And that means, the world is a better place. Because if Nazi Germany or Communist Russia were the only superpowers, we would all be either dead or forced to live under their regimes.
America is not interested in ruling your country. If you think it does, smoking crack may be your answer.
I wasn't born here. But, I have a love for this country and its people that knows no bounds. I will forever be grateful to America for going into World War II, when it had nothing to gain, in a country that was far away...and rescued my Mother from the Nazi German Concentration Camps.
She is alive and I am alive because of America.
And, if you have a problem with America, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME."
Gene Simmons.
the nature boy
New member
Hell, if Gene Simmons supports the war, then I think everyone else should.
nice on the face of it
but america has interfered in other countries politics in the past, just like britain, russia etc hae done during the cold war...
that interference resulted in many deaths
so yes, you can be glad about america being the top power at the moment....but i don;t think that means you have to agree with all their policies. ultimately we will see if the iraqi's are allowed to form a regeime like the iranians if they choose
but america has interfered in other countries politics in the past, just like britain, russia etc hae done during the cold war...
that interference resulted in many deaths
so yes, you can be glad about america being the top power at the moment....but i don;t think that means you have to agree with all their policies. ultimately we will see if the iraqi's are allowed to form a regeime like the iranians if they choose
the nature boy
New member
p0ink said:
I didn't really have too much of a problem with most of the article but I found this pretty hilarious. Saddam has been out of power for how long? 2 weeks at the most?
And last I checked there people didn't have food and there was wide scale lawlessness.
sounds like a wash to me.
S
Simp
Guest
2 weeks? Sheesh. How about if Iraq is still like that in 2 months, then you can start complaining, TNB. Otherwise, give them sometime, whiney.
Lao Tzu
New member
danielson said:
A Grateful Briton
By London Daily Mail
London Daily Mail | March 14, 2003
Dear America, you quirky mix of 280 million misfits that have somehow blended into the strongest nation in the world, I write to offer you four apologies and two vows.
I, James Black, a European passport holder whose parents are Scottish, whose wife is English, and whose four children are free to be whatever they may want to be (directly because of the sacrifice of your nation), am ashamed for pointing out to a colleague while visiting your country a few days ago that Winston Churchill was wrong when he said the biggest difference between Britain and the United States was the fact we both spoke the same language -- and instead, telling him that the real difference between our peoples was actually about 100 pounds per person.
I, who work as a journalist with the Daily Mail, one of Britain's national newspapers, and (directly because of the sacrifice of your nation) is able to say exactly what he wants whenever he wants without fear of death or imprisonment, also apologize for saying to the same colleague that many of the Americans I met were far less sophisticated and worldly than Europeans.
I, James Black, a man born free of social or physical shackles and chains, who is able to travel around the world and visit other countries and who (directly because of the sacrifice of your nation) is able to converse, discuss, even argue with people from other nations, would like to apologize for mocking your president and your political system.
Your president may not be the sharpest knife in the cutlery set, but I now understand he and the good people of the United States operate not just from a high intellectual stance, but also from the heart -- a heart that knows the difference between good and evil. And importantly, your president was smart enough to have picked the best to sit with him at the world table.
I, whose friends, family and colleagues are allowed to set up home, take a job, even run for politician, in any part of the European Union (directly because of the sacrifice of your nation) without being rounded up because of their religion or shot on the spot for their place of birth would finally like to apologize for the biggest mistake the people of my continent have ever made -- their total lack of respect for the greatest friend they will ever have -- the United States of America.
My anger at some of my fellow Europeans is more than palpable. I hear the self-centered, cowardly, and just plain annoying words thrown out by old-minded -- old world -- so-called leaders of the Free World.
I may have made fun of America and Americans, but deep down I know this is only friendly banter between the greatest of friends -- and friends who should give their all to each other when called upon to do so.
So I, whose grandfather fought in both World Wars and had the good humor to suggest the Americans were late for both events, but the sense to point out they ensured victory when they finally did show up, make my first vow:
I will never forget or dishonor the amazing and courageous sacrifice of the people of the United States in coming to the aid of the world over the past ten decades. The men and women who left peace and prosperity in a land of plenty to face bullet and shrapnel on the beaches of Normandy and around the World.
I will honor the debt my small island nation owes for your unswerving devotion to aiding our continued freedom. Your help when we stood small and alone against the plague of Nazi aggression. Your assistance in making us strong when the battle was finished and the peace began, and your protection from a colder enemy in the decades that followed.
I have stood, and I will stand again, with my own family, in places such as the cemetery of Colleville-sur-Mer, an eternal resting place for over 10,000 teen and twenty-something Americans who gave over ALL their future so that I and my children could have a future today, and I will again pledge my eternal gratitude.
I, James Black, a man who simply wants his children to live in a future where all good and constructive things are possible, a future where we can discover, invent, enjoy, without fear of fanatics or madmen or the weapons and pain they may wreak, pledge my assistance to the United States in its fight against evil.
This is not brainwashed verse, but based on the honorable history and proven friendship the United States has with Europe.
Further, it is based on the fact that the people and leaders of the United States have the foresight to see the world, even life itself, is futile without someone to love, things to build and create, and things to look forward to -- and none of these things are possible in a world awash with nuclear, chemical and biological arms controlled by those who despise the life we lead.
I am one person, but there are millions like me who thank the USA and wish your nation and your people all the best over the next few months -- and will be there by your side when the times get tough.
Yours with all my gratitude,
James Black
Wychwood Park, Cheshire, England
P.S.: It is said that today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday. You should be proud as a nation that you have something to do with the fact it didn't turn out so badly after all -- nor should it again.
Lao Tzu
New member
The "Bravery" of the Anti-War Movement
by Patrick Nachtigall
When I was living in South Korea, I worked with a guy who routinely wrote opinion letters to the Korean Herald — an English newspaper distributed throughout Korea. It was not difficult to get published by the Korean Herald; nevertheless, "Phil" always came to work with a smug sense of satisfaction after having his latest rant printed. Everything he wrote was absolutely incoherent, using words and phrases that made no sense, but which the Korean editors assumed were correct English. What struck me most about Phil's rants ,however, was that he always took the liberal platform on any issue and wrote as if he were a lone voice of incredible bravery crying out in the bigoted wilderness.
"The oppression of women is wrong and I believe it must be stopped!"
"I am not going to stand idle and not proclaim that I am against racism!
"Maybe I'm the lone ranger, but I am going to go out on a limb and loudly proclaim that the abuse of children is wrong!"
You get the picture. How much bravery does it really take to say that kids should not be abused, or that women are equal to men, or that systematic racism is wrong. Nevertheless, in each article, Phil would cast himself as the lone hero taking a stand against the system — against "the man." What bravery! What intellect! What poppycock.
The current "brave" protests of celebrities (Barbara Streisand, Sheryl Crow, George Clooney), writers (Norman Mailer, Joan Didion), academics (Edward Said, Glenda Gilmour), and the most visible anti-war protesters are not much different than Phil. Each one finds their way into the limelight and with incredible pride publicly makes a comment like Jessica Lang's "I'm so ashamed to be an American," or academics like Susan Sontag saying that when it comes to 9/11 "a few shreds of historical awareness might help us understand what has just happened, and what may continue to happen."
The deeply provincial or just downright prejudiced opinions of people like Columbia University's Said or director Robert Altman are meant to shock us into realizing that America is an evil, hypocritical land in danger of becoming fascist under the Bush administration. And for many in the Left, their message has been successful. At the recent protests in Washington, D.C., such brilliant American thinkers as Susan Sarandon and Tyne Daly rallied the masses with their anti-American propaganda.
I say anti-American, not because I view dissenting opinions in a time like this as anti-American. I say they are anti-American because that is exactly what they are. The protesters held up signs equating Bush to Hitler, suggesting Saddam is more legitimate than Bush because at least Saddam "was elected by the people," and American flags were drawn into the shapes of swastikas. Across both ponds, Europeans and Asians also joined in protests against the world's most evil dictatorship — the United States of America.
There are a number of myths that seems to fuel the Hate-America crowd. I refuse to believe that they are actually interested in entering into a dialogue over what to do with Al-Qaeda, Iraq, and North Korea because they never show any evidence that they are wrestling with the issues. None. Instead they fall back on these unbelievably simplistic myths to support their anti-America crusade.
1) The USA deserves what it got on 9/11 because of its shady history in the Middle East.
This is a good one since it shows that the Left and the Anti-War movement aren't actually students of history. While the Middle East has had a turbulent history under Western powers, it wasn't exactly a model of stability for the 2 millenniums prior either. Once the Western powers granted independence and nations like Egypt and Iran came into their own, they weren't stable either. In fact, history shows that much like Africa, the Middle East has a myriad of cultural problems that lead to instability, hostility, and war whether Western powers are present or not. In fact, there probably has not been a country inside or outside of the Middle East that has promoted stability in the Middle East as much as the United States. It's hard to imagine that the Middle East would be a more peaceful place if Israel weren't heavily armed and the U.S. military weren't stationed in Europe and patrolling the Gulf. It really is naïve to think that the absence of a U.S. presence in the Middle East would promote regional stability.
2) The USA's continued support of Israel inflames the Middle East
Actually, it was the Soviet Union, not the United States that served as the champion for the establishment of the state of Israel. While it is true that the United States sends massive amounts of economic aid to Israel each year, it is also just as true that the U.S. sends massive amounts of money to Arab nations such as Egypt and Jordan. Why does this never get mentioned? Cairo would not look as modern as it does today if it weren't for U.S. aid — and of course much of it is lost through corruption but that is not the U.S.' problem, that is a problem endemic to all Arab nations.
3) The USA has sponsored corrupt regimes in the Middle East like Iraq, Iran, and Egypt.
Gee, in case you haven't noticed — ALL Middle Eastern governments are authoritarian regimes with massive corruption. Israel is a far more sophisticated nation-state than any Arab state — but the protesters would be furious if we used that as a gauge for determining which foreign countries to support. We support Middle Eastern nations and inevitably (for cultural reasons) they are corrupt and authoritarian. That includes Turkey whose fragile democracy is held together by violating every human right imaginable. The question becomes: Is Iran better under the corrupt leadership of the Shah or the fascist regime of the Ayatollah. Ultimately, this is the Middle East's problem. Maybe the anti-War protesters should protest against them!
4) The USA is an arrogant superpower always wanting to be the World's policemen
The completely impotent Europeans really harp on the Americans about this one, yet it is they that begged us, absolutely begged us to intervene in Kosovo. Why? Because the European nations' militaries are woefully ill-equipped to deal with the kinds of things that occur in the real world. Their Liberal pie-in-the-sky policies left them completely unable to do anything about the ethnic cleansing occurring in their own backyard. How ironic is that? It was up to the USA to come in and save the Muslim minorities from further persecution and contain the explosive situation in the Balkans.
The Europeans decided during the Reagan-Thatcher years that the Americans were cowboys and gun-slingers and hold on to this myth. They refused Reagan permission to fly fighters over European soil to attack Moammar Khadaffi in Libya after he had perpetuated a number of terrorist attacks on European soil. Only Britain assisted. Reagan said, "We will not negotiate with terrorists." Khadaffi took a direct hit on his compound, and guess what? His terrorism stopped by the 1990s. Now Khadaffi is desperately trying to kiss-up to the USA and supplying information on Al-Qaeda. Power works! Power is necessary sometimes. And impotent nations like Germany, Japan and Yugoslavia are completely dependent on the option of American power being present. Maybe we should pull out of South Korea just to make this point.
5) The USA acts unilaterally too much and doesn't care what its allies think
Has the U.S. not patrolled Iraq for the world for 12 years in order to keep Saddam Hussein from committing genocide against the Kurds? Did the U.S.A. not allow the U.N. to weakly oversee the disarming of Iraq through the entire 1990s? Did the United States not go to the U.N. a year after the 9/11 attacks to ask them to uphold their decision to disarm Saddam? Did the U.S. not patiently wait and form an alliance before attacking Afghanistan in October of 2001? The truth is that the U.S. has desperately tried to include its allies (especially Arab allies) in the war against fascism.
But like France and Germany, most have decided that it is more worthwhile to gain political capital by joining the anti-America crusade then it is to deal with the rise of an authoritarian fascism that goes against everything countries like France and Germany claim to stand for. Al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, and Iraq are the anti-France! In the case of the terrorists, they have declared war on the entire West. But the Europeans force us to act unilaterally when even the discovery of plots to blow up cathedrals in Eastern France, chemicals in London and Paris, and the massacre of many European citizens in Bali fail to rally them toward the cause for true justice.
6) Bush is a fascist, Bush is Hitler, Bush is Saddam Hussein.
I can only assume that the anti-war movement will be deeply embarrassed by these comments when in the future we learn more about what life for women was like under Afghanistan's Taliban rule, about Saddam's torture chambers and Iran's oppression of scholars, freedom of speech, and everything else Liberals claim to believe in. I simply don't know how any of these protesters can make this claim and think they have any intellectual credibility, or maturity for that matter.
7) We are losing our civil liberties!
Once again, a little history would help. In times of threat, the U.S. is forced to clamp down on civil liberties. It happened prior to the Civil War, it happened prior to World War II, and it is happening again. Inevitably, those rights are returned as the threat lessens. But we are currently in a period of time where our enemies are promising to do all that they can to attack us in the future and rallying 1 billion Muslims to rise up against the United States and the West. Is this not a time for concern? How can it not be unnerving to people to have the world's most notorious man (Osama Bin Laden — the true modern day Hitler admired by many) asking for the support of 1 billion people in the destruction of the United States. Because Islam is a global religion, Osama's brand of fascism is far more dangerous than Hitler's. The U.S. government has said that over 300 attacks were thwarted on the United States this year. Perhaps if they had failed just once or twice, these ridiculous anxiety attacks over civil liberties would be put into perspective. It's sad that it will take another 9/11 to wake people up to the real threat the United States faces.
The world will get more dangerous even if George W. Bush dies and is replaced as President by a re-incarnated Gandhi. There is nothing Bush or the U.S. could have done to prevent the decay of Islamic Civilization over the past 700 years. It's foolish to think so. Globalization may actually be the biggest culprit recently — but countries other than the the United States, like France, China, Sri Lanka, and Costa Rica have all been a part of and benefited by globalization. Muslim states are no exception.
Why the Pseudo-Bravery of the Left Will Continue
Unfortunately, nothing I write or say will be enough for the anti-War protesters. In fact, even seeing the inside of Saddam and Al-Qaeda's lairs of murder, massacre, genocide, abuse of women, of children, of homosexuals, and of secularists will not be enough to convince the bleeding heart liberals that America is not the real source of evil.
Why is this? Because just as a teenager forms his or her identity rebelling from his parents and proving himself to be independent and grown-up; liberals feel that the quickest way to show their intelligence is by debasing whatever traditions have made America great. Interesting that they don't celebrate the openness of America as they make posters having to do with the incredibly repressed Middle-East. They choose not to focus on real human rights, or real democracy. Instead, they demonstrate their ignorance by taking the default, non-Patriotic party line. Just like Phil writing in the Korean Herald, the anti-War protesters think that they are real heroes protesting against War and the unnecessary death of Iraqi Children — as if that's what the average American and George W. Bush want — dead children. Like Phil, they don't take brave positions, they take self-glorifying positions. Far be it for Jessica Lange to actually contemplate what the fate of Iraqi children will continue to be in a Saddam Hussein-led Iraq. Do we really expect Sheryl Crowe to study up on foreign policy issues to form a relevant, intelligent, coherent critique on the War on Terror? Is Edward Said really going to challenge Islamo-Fascism after spending an entire career attacking the imperialistic West hidden safely behind the walls of Columbia University and the politically-correct movement that houses such thoughtless jingoism?
The Quagmire of the Left
Most of these reactionary critics of the war, America, and the Bush administration are not necessarily stupid. But rather, they have formed their entire identity around the myth of the evil conservative establishment that seeks to enslave American and global freedom through big business, environmental ruin, religion, and globalization. They cling to the archaic counter-cultural enemies of the 1960s and 1970s, failing to realize everything they despise has actually been manifested in Islamic fascism, not the United States government. The Post-9/11 world is simply too complicated — too nuanced, for them. It would require giving up the old paradigm, which allows them to appear smart, humanitarian, open, enlightened, and environmentally-conscious. They desperately need their caricature of Bush to demonize in order to keep the waning influence of their passé Liberalism alive. And just like Phil, they reduce things to the most base level making it easy to say "we care about the people of the world, and everyone else are nazis." The nazi label is a favorite to pin on the current U.S. administration during this war on terror and they completely miss the irony of this — they are indirectly supporting a new, more lethal form of Nazims. They are simplistic, naïve, willfully ignorant, and dangerously passé.
The idealistic naivete of the Left is leading to its demise. Like teenagers with their parents, they rebel against their own traditions, cultures, and governments, completely failing to realize how utterly dependent they are on those things for survival. They have no real identity — instead they must define themselves as what they are not. Like teenagers, they have no real game plan of how to succeed in the real world. They don't have the tools to be successful independently of all the "oppressive" institutions that they rail against, all they can do is light up a cigarette, break curfew and try to look cool. It gets them girls, it gets them the recognition as the "cool kids" that they so desperately crave, but it doesn't get them a life, and we can't depend on them for our subsistence.
What Might Have Been
Imagine, if thousands of protesters had joined together around Europe, Asia, and America with signs that said, "Stop jailing children, Saddam!," "Kim Jong Il — Feed Your People First!", or "Human Rights for Women in Iran!" Can you imagine the pressure that those regimes would be under if thousands of people banned together around the World to make those statements of liberation in the name of all the causes Liberals claim to care about.
But that did not happen. Instead, the Anti-War movement chose as its bete noir George W. Bush and the U.S.A. They reduced the argument to the most base level possible, "Bush is a Nazi," and "No Blood for Oil." Deep down, peace is not the goal. Looking cool and progressive is. The bottom line is that the protesters don't have the kind of bravery that Bush and Blair are demonstrating by their attempts, however faulty at times, to deal with the rise of a new, contagious fascism in a realistic way.
Teenagers eventually grow up because reality hits them in the face. They find that they are not nearly as self-reliant, infallible, or immortal as they thought they were. The fact of the matter is that the Left has stopped making sense. They have been allowed to live in counter-cultural adolescence for far too long. It has yet to be seen whether they will grow up. One thing is for sure: the global crisis we are in will get worse and nations will demand real solutions, not just posturing and cowardice disguised as enlightened, compassionate thinking.
by Patrick Nachtigall
When I was living in South Korea, I worked with a guy who routinely wrote opinion letters to the Korean Herald — an English newspaper distributed throughout Korea. It was not difficult to get published by the Korean Herald; nevertheless, "Phil" always came to work with a smug sense of satisfaction after having his latest rant printed. Everything he wrote was absolutely incoherent, using words and phrases that made no sense, but which the Korean editors assumed were correct English. What struck me most about Phil's rants ,however, was that he always took the liberal platform on any issue and wrote as if he were a lone voice of incredible bravery crying out in the bigoted wilderness.
"The oppression of women is wrong and I believe it must be stopped!"
"I am not going to stand idle and not proclaim that I am against racism!
"Maybe I'm the lone ranger, but I am going to go out on a limb and loudly proclaim that the abuse of children is wrong!"
You get the picture. How much bravery does it really take to say that kids should not be abused, or that women are equal to men, or that systematic racism is wrong. Nevertheless, in each article, Phil would cast himself as the lone hero taking a stand against the system — against "the man." What bravery! What intellect! What poppycock.
The current "brave" protests of celebrities (Barbara Streisand, Sheryl Crow, George Clooney), writers (Norman Mailer, Joan Didion), academics (Edward Said, Glenda Gilmour), and the most visible anti-war protesters are not much different than Phil. Each one finds their way into the limelight and with incredible pride publicly makes a comment like Jessica Lang's "I'm so ashamed to be an American," or academics like Susan Sontag saying that when it comes to 9/11 "a few shreds of historical awareness might help us understand what has just happened, and what may continue to happen."
The deeply provincial or just downright prejudiced opinions of people like Columbia University's Said or director Robert Altman are meant to shock us into realizing that America is an evil, hypocritical land in danger of becoming fascist under the Bush administration. And for many in the Left, their message has been successful. At the recent protests in Washington, D.C., such brilliant American thinkers as Susan Sarandon and Tyne Daly rallied the masses with their anti-American propaganda.
I say anti-American, not because I view dissenting opinions in a time like this as anti-American. I say they are anti-American because that is exactly what they are. The protesters held up signs equating Bush to Hitler, suggesting Saddam is more legitimate than Bush because at least Saddam "was elected by the people," and American flags were drawn into the shapes of swastikas. Across both ponds, Europeans and Asians also joined in protests against the world's most evil dictatorship — the United States of America.
There are a number of myths that seems to fuel the Hate-America crowd. I refuse to believe that they are actually interested in entering into a dialogue over what to do with Al-Qaeda, Iraq, and North Korea because they never show any evidence that they are wrestling with the issues. None. Instead they fall back on these unbelievably simplistic myths to support their anti-America crusade.
1) The USA deserves what it got on 9/11 because of its shady history in the Middle East.
This is a good one since it shows that the Left and the Anti-War movement aren't actually students of history. While the Middle East has had a turbulent history under Western powers, it wasn't exactly a model of stability for the 2 millenniums prior either. Once the Western powers granted independence and nations like Egypt and Iran came into their own, they weren't stable either. In fact, history shows that much like Africa, the Middle East has a myriad of cultural problems that lead to instability, hostility, and war whether Western powers are present or not. In fact, there probably has not been a country inside or outside of the Middle East that has promoted stability in the Middle East as much as the United States. It's hard to imagine that the Middle East would be a more peaceful place if Israel weren't heavily armed and the U.S. military weren't stationed in Europe and patrolling the Gulf. It really is naïve to think that the absence of a U.S. presence in the Middle East would promote regional stability.
2) The USA's continued support of Israel inflames the Middle East
Actually, it was the Soviet Union, not the United States that served as the champion for the establishment of the state of Israel. While it is true that the United States sends massive amounts of economic aid to Israel each year, it is also just as true that the U.S. sends massive amounts of money to Arab nations such as Egypt and Jordan. Why does this never get mentioned? Cairo would not look as modern as it does today if it weren't for U.S. aid — and of course much of it is lost through corruption but that is not the U.S.' problem, that is a problem endemic to all Arab nations.
3) The USA has sponsored corrupt regimes in the Middle East like Iraq, Iran, and Egypt.
Gee, in case you haven't noticed — ALL Middle Eastern governments are authoritarian regimes with massive corruption. Israel is a far more sophisticated nation-state than any Arab state — but the protesters would be furious if we used that as a gauge for determining which foreign countries to support. We support Middle Eastern nations and inevitably (for cultural reasons) they are corrupt and authoritarian. That includes Turkey whose fragile democracy is held together by violating every human right imaginable. The question becomes: Is Iran better under the corrupt leadership of the Shah or the fascist regime of the Ayatollah. Ultimately, this is the Middle East's problem. Maybe the anti-War protesters should protest against them!
4) The USA is an arrogant superpower always wanting to be the World's policemen
The completely impotent Europeans really harp on the Americans about this one, yet it is they that begged us, absolutely begged us to intervene in Kosovo. Why? Because the European nations' militaries are woefully ill-equipped to deal with the kinds of things that occur in the real world. Their Liberal pie-in-the-sky policies left them completely unable to do anything about the ethnic cleansing occurring in their own backyard. How ironic is that? It was up to the USA to come in and save the Muslim minorities from further persecution and contain the explosive situation in the Balkans.
The Europeans decided during the Reagan-Thatcher years that the Americans were cowboys and gun-slingers and hold on to this myth. They refused Reagan permission to fly fighters over European soil to attack Moammar Khadaffi in Libya after he had perpetuated a number of terrorist attacks on European soil. Only Britain assisted. Reagan said, "We will not negotiate with terrorists." Khadaffi took a direct hit on his compound, and guess what? His terrorism stopped by the 1990s. Now Khadaffi is desperately trying to kiss-up to the USA and supplying information on Al-Qaeda. Power works! Power is necessary sometimes. And impotent nations like Germany, Japan and Yugoslavia are completely dependent on the option of American power being present. Maybe we should pull out of South Korea just to make this point.
5) The USA acts unilaterally too much and doesn't care what its allies think
Has the U.S. not patrolled Iraq for the world for 12 years in order to keep Saddam Hussein from committing genocide against the Kurds? Did the U.S.A. not allow the U.N. to weakly oversee the disarming of Iraq through the entire 1990s? Did the United States not go to the U.N. a year after the 9/11 attacks to ask them to uphold their decision to disarm Saddam? Did the U.S. not patiently wait and form an alliance before attacking Afghanistan in October of 2001? The truth is that the U.S. has desperately tried to include its allies (especially Arab allies) in the war against fascism.
But like France and Germany, most have decided that it is more worthwhile to gain political capital by joining the anti-America crusade then it is to deal with the rise of an authoritarian fascism that goes against everything countries like France and Germany claim to stand for. Al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, and Iraq are the anti-France! In the case of the terrorists, they have declared war on the entire West. But the Europeans force us to act unilaterally when even the discovery of plots to blow up cathedrals in Eastern France, chemicals in London and Paris, and the massacre of many European citizens in Bali fail to rally them toward the cause for true justice.
6) Bush is a fascist, Bush is Hitler, Bush is Saddam Hussein.
I can only assume that the anti-war movement will be deeply embarrassed by these comments when in the future we learn more about what life for women was like under Afghanistan's Taliban rule, about Saddam's torture chambers and Iran's oppression of scholars, freedom of speech, and everything else Liberals claim to believe in. I simply don't know how any of these protesters can make this claim and think they have any intellectual credibility, or maturity for that matter.
7) We are losing our civil liberties!
Once again, a little history would help. In times of threat, the U.S. is forced to clamp down on civil liberties. It happened prior to the Civil War, it happened prior to World War II, and it is happening again. Inevitably, those rights are returned as the threat lessens. But we are currently in a period of time where our enemies are promising to do all that they can to attack us in the future and rallying 1 billion Muslims to rise up against the United States and the West. Is this not a time for concern? How can it not be unnerving to people to have the world's most notorious man (Osama Bin Laden — the true modern day Hitler admired by many) asking for the support of 1 billion people in the destruction of the United States. Because Islam is a global religion, Osama's brand of fascism is far more dangerous than Hitler's. The U.S. government has said that over 300 attacks were thwarted on the United States this year. Perhaps if they had failed just once or twice, these ridiculous anxiety attacks over civil liberties would be put into perspective. It's sad that it will take another 9/11 to wake people up to the real threat the United States faces.
The world will get more dangerous even if George W. Bush dies and is replaced as President by a re-incarnated Gandhi. There is nothing Bush or the U.S. could have done to prevent the decay of Islamic Civilization over the past 700 years. It's foolish to think so. Globalization may actually be the biggest culprit recently — but countries other than the the United States, like France, China, Sri Lanka, and Costa Rica have all been a part of and benefited by globalization. Muslim states are no exception.
Why the Pseudo-Bravery of the Left Will Continue
Unfortunately, nothing I write or say will be enough for the anti-War protesters. In fact, even seeing the inside of Saddam and Al-Qaeda's lairs of murder, massacre, genocide, abuse of women, of children, of homosexuals, and of secularists will not be enough to convince the bleeding heart liberals that America is not the real source of evil.
Why is this? Because just as a teenager forms his or her identity rebelling from his parents and proving himself to be independent and grown-up; liberals feel that the quickest way to show their intelligence is by debasing whatever traditions have made America great. Interesting that they don't celebrate the openness of America as they make posters having to do with the incredibly repressed Middle-East. They choose not to focus on real human rights, or real democracy. Instead, they demonstrate their ignorance by taking the default, non-Patriotic party line. Just like Phil writing in the Korean Herald, the anti-War protesters think that they are real heroes protesting against War and the unnecessary death of Iraqi Children — as if that's what the average American and George W. Bush want — dead children. Like Phil, they don't take brave positions, they take self-glorifying positions. Far be it for Jessica Lange to actually contemplate what the fate of Iraqi children will continue to be in a Saddam Hussein-led Iraq. Do we really expect Sheryl Crowe to study up on foreign policy issues to form a relevant, intelligent, coherent critique on the War on Terror? Is Edward Said really going to challenge Islamo-Fascism after spending an entire career attacking the imperialistic West hidden safely behind the walls of Columbia University and the politically-correct movement that houses such thoughtless jingoism?
The Quagmire of the Left
Most of these reactionary critics of the war, America, and the Bush administration are not necessarily stupid. But rather, they have formed their entire identity around the myth of the evil conservative establishment that seeks to enslave American and global freedom through big business, environmental ruin, religion, and globalization. They cling to the archaic counter-cultural enemies of the 1960s and 1970s, failing to realize everything they despise has actually been manifested in Islamic fascism, not the United States government. The Post-9/11 world is simply too complicated — too nuanced, for them. It would require giving up the old paradigm, which allows them to appear smart, humanitarian, open, enlightened, and environmentally-conscious. They desperately need their caricature of Bush to demonize in order to keep the waning influence of their passé Liberalism alive. And just like Phil, they reduce things to the most base level making it easy to say "we care about the people of the world, and everyone else are nazis." The nazi label is a favorite to pin on the current U.S. administration during this war on terror and they completely miss the irony of this — they are indirectly supporting a new, more lethal form of Nazims. They are simplistic, naïve, willfully ignorant, and dangerously passé.
The idealistic naivete of the Left is leading to its demise. Like teenagers with their parents, they rebel against their own traditions, cultures, and governments, completely failing to realize how utterly dependent they are on those things for survival. They have no real identity — instead they must define themselves as what they are not. Like teenagers, they have no real game plan of how to succeed in the real world. They don't have the tools to be successful independently of all the "oppressive" institutions that they rail against, all they can do is light up a cigarette, break curfew and try to look cool. It gets them girls, it gets them the recognition as the "cool kids" that they so desperately crave, but it doesn't get them a life, and we can't depend on them for our subsistence.
What Might Have Been
Imagine, if thousands of protesters had joined together around Europe, Asia, and America with signs that said, "Stop jailing children, Saddam!," "Kim Jong Il — Feed Your People First!", or "Human Rights for Women in Iran!" Can you imagine the pressure that those regimes would be under if thousands of people banned together around the World to make those statements of liberation in the name of all the causes Liberals claim to care about.
But that did not happen. Instead, the Anti-War movement chose as its bete noir George W. Bush and the U.S.A. They reduced the argument to the most base level possible, "Bush is a Nazi," and "No Blood for Oil." Deep down, peace is not the goal. Looking cool and progressive is. The bottom line is that the protesters don't have the kind of bravery that Bush and Blair are demonstrating by their attempts, however faulty at times, to deal with the rise of a new, contagious fascism in a realistic way.
Teenagers eventually grow up because reality hits them in the face. They find that they are not nearly as self-reliant, infallible, or immortal as they thought they were. The fact of the matter is that the Left has stopped making sense. They have been allowed to live in counter-cultural adolescence for far too long. It has yet to be seen whether they will grow up. One thing is for sure: the global crisis we are in will get worse and nations will demand real solutions, not just posturing and cowardice disguised as enlightened, compassionate thinking.
Lao Tzu
New member
danielson said:
I do agree with your statement though, the US, like all other countries, has done evil things. But i personally think the wars we've fought that were righteous and our scientific discoveries have helped far more people than our evil wars or looking the other way have hurt. Hopefully the end of hte cold war, a desire for stability (as stability prevents terrorism) and living in an age where communication is instant will cause 1st world nations to be more humane with defenseless 3rd world nations (which aren't defenseless anymore).
I dont' think the Iraqi's want a Shi'ite dictatorship. Only about 10% of mid easterners are fundamentalists. They might want a mild Islamic state, but i doubt anything severe.
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Frackal
Guest
P0ink, I liked alot of his points about America herself, but aren't you the one always saying celebrity views are irrelevant... this double standard with you guys is really becoming tired.
nordstrom, the iraqi's seem to be as a people fairly educated, in that beore the gulf wars, iraq was fairly well off etc....iraq had good uni;s etc
im terrified that without the order the iraqi;s crave so much (in essence something saddam did well) they will look to anyone for guidance, and the mosque will be what dishes it out, and the extremism will flow from there with people sent into iraq to rally the people....iraq had its biggest islamic rally today in remembrance of some really old martyr. while on the face of it, othings wrong with that, i think everyone knows how things can spiral out of control
as for the discoveries and wars thing....yeah, i;d have to agree with you too....but i think the only way its played out like this is because its made economic sense. which isnt necessarily a put down, as any other country probably would have done the same
as for the 2 articles, the first is the daily mail article, which is basically the best example of a rectionist right wing tabloid (who in the past advocated locking jews up as they were immigrants and has now shifted focus to eastern europe)
the second one skips the issue quite well. it accuses others saying would support the shah if you knew khomeni was the alternative....it 'forgets' that the shah was 'placed' there by the US and UK replacing a very peaceful socialist system (who happened to be USSR sympathists)....the artcle continues on this track, i stopped reading after it agreed with the US's adminstrations stripping of civil liberties, not even MENTIONING a sunset clause!
im terrified that without the order the iraqi;s crave so much (in essence something saddam did well) they will look to anyone for guidance, and the mosque will be what dishes it out, and the extremism will flow from there with people sent into iraq to rally the people....iraq had its biggest islamic rally today in remembrance of some really old martyr. while on the face of it, othings wrong with that, i think everyone knows how things can spiral out of control
as for the discoveries and wars thing....yeah, i;d have to agree with you too....but i think the only way its played out like this is because its made economic sense. which isnt necessarily a put down, as any other country probably would have done the same
as for the 2 articles, the first is the daily mail article, which is basically the best example of a rectionist right wing tabloid (who in the past advocated locking jews up as they were immigrants and has now shifted focus to eastern europe)
the second one skips the issue quite well. it accuses others saying would support the shah if you knew khomeni was the alternative....it 'forgets' that the shah was 'placed' there by the US and UK replacing a very peaceful socialist system (who happened to be USSR sympathists)....the artcle continues on this track, i stopped reading after it agreed with the US's adminstrations stripping of civil liberties, not even MENTIONING a sunset clause!
Lao Tzu
New member
danielson said:
danielson said:
OK, an extremist paper is not a good source. But the info is still true, the US played a major part in helping fight the war on Nazism & communism.
Can you prove that Mossadeq was a peaceful socialist? I thought he was a strongman. Considering that there isn't an islamic nation in 1000 miles of iran that respects human rights, democracy or liberty i am skeptical of hte idea that Iran would've been a liberal democracy if not for the US. It would've been nice if that'd happened, i just find it hard to believe that Iran would've been peaceful or liberal. Even so, the US & UK did overthrow an elected government. I just don't see how Iran would've been stable or peaceful no matter what.
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Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)
Guest
2Thick said:
You're the simple one, sugarplum.
I just applied your logic to you.
He was brought to the US as a child, much like you were.
Stumpy said:
You think you know something about me. I have known for a long time never to trust people like you. Because the minute I turn your back, you would stab me in the back.
Remember that misinformation is your friend. It is easier to manipulate people when they think they have an advantage
nordstrom said:
yes the US did in effect win both those wars, it would have been possible without them, and they stayed and helped rebuild europe. much credit to them for that....its something others might not have done given the devastation
but i believe the US of then is very different to the US of now....i can;t imagine past politicians trying to push legistlature through the type of which is currently becoming law, and at best minor disquiet the public as a whole is showing
as for iran no not a liberal democracy at all. infact, im not sure it was democratic at all....
but we didnt replace him with a democratic power structure, just another dictator. and when i said peaceful, its all relative compared to the shah and khomeni. i confess i don;t know all that mch aout what life was like under him, maybe 2thick knows.
i do know its was more peaceful than under the other 2, and that he was sympathetc to the USSR and therefore so were his oil reserves
the nature boy
New member
Simp said:
I'm not going to argue your point... but I'll argue the wording simmons used. I'm saying it's a toss up the way things are TODAY, at this very moment.
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Stumpy (The Fucking dumbass Piece of Shit!)
Guest
2Thick said:
You think you know something about me. I have known for a long time never to trust people like you. Because the minute I turn your back, you would stab me in the back.
Remember that misinformation is your friend. It is easier to manipulate people when they think they have an advantage
You need intensive psychiatric help.
Testosterone boy
New member
Stumpy said:
C'mon Stumpy, you could have done better than that.
MY .02, I don't truly believe that Gene Simmons wrote all of that. In addition, it seems that all people of Israeli heritage are tinkled pink by the distruction of two separate Middle Eastern countries. They are also highly enthusiastic of additional war mongering.
I guess if I could unleash an 800 pound gorilla to do my dirty work, I'd be proud of him too.
Having said that, I am not saying that we did the wrong thing but noyone has proven to anybody that we did the right thing yet.
p0ink
New member
Frackal said:
im not saying this man's word is of scripture status, or that everyone should listen to him. i was just simply posting a view point that seems to be rather lonely in hollywood.
i dont, nor have i ever needed, some celebrities approval/disapproval before i make my own decision.
his opinions matter just as much to me, as the guy who bags my groceries. i dont care either which way.
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Frackal
Guest
True p0ink, that is how I treat their opinions as well
