9-11

[VicTusDeuS]

Ok, so the Government had warning that something was going to happen regarding a terrorist act in the US. (Maybe they even knew it would be a landmark)

Even if they knew it was going to be done by a plane, how could you stop anything like that without knowing all of the information. There are thousands of flights a day. Do you ground every flight fucking up the hurting economy even more....even when it could be a flase alarm like 99.9% of all the other terrorist threats?
They had no Idea which flights it would be and from what Airports they would leave. I'm sure our intelligence was mostly at fault (After Clinton cut spending for it). But who would have guessed they would use planes from Boston heading to CA to carry out such attacks in NYC??. Most people would assume they would use flights out of NYC's local Airports which would be the obvious choice considering they wanted to not be noticed before hand....
The Hijakers themselves had little information about what was going on. Everything was well planned and so secret that even they didnt know who else they were working with until the day of the attack. Somehow tey mustve all had the same information though...This is why I believe there is someone who was in contact with all of them helping them out and linking it all together.

 

[Warik]

The fact is that people this day and age only seek someone to blame and care nothing for the truth.

It's the same reason there are many people in prison that shouldn't be there. Did guy X really kill the woman? Well... the evidence isn't great, but it's the best we have to go on... besides, he can't afford a good lawyer. Prosecute!

And now this.

They say: "The government had information about the events of 9/11 prior to its taking place."

We say: "OH MY GOD THEY KNEW FLIGHTS #X AND Y WERE GOING TO CRASH INTO LOCATIONS A AND B. DAMN YOU GEORGE BUSH HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN!!!"

Facts, people. Let's worry about the facts before we start pointing fingers.

-Warik

 

[spongebob]

The fact is that people this day and age only seek someone to blame and care nothing for the truth.

It's the same reason there are many people in prison that shouldn't be there. Did guy X really kill the woman? Well... the evidence isn't great, but it's the best we have to go on... besides, he can't afford a good lawyer. Prosecute!

And now this.

They say: "The government had information about the events of 9/11 prior to its taking place."

We say: "OH MY GOD THEY KNEW FLIGHTS #X AND Y WERE GOING TO CRASH INTO LOCATIONS A AND B. DAMN YOU GEORGE BUSH HOW COULD YOU LET THIS HAPPEN!!!"

Facts, people. Let's worry about the facts before we start pointing fingers.

-Warik

good point warik, but conspiracy theorist fill in the gaps with assumptions where they do not have the answers. and they believe that the mere asking of questions insinuates blame before getting the answers. the house and senate intelligence committees both had all the information the president was privy too. they are just as responsible if not more so that the president to take action. they did not take any action before the attacks. in an election year you should expect fingerpointing this strong. its common sense.

there is an investigation into 9-11 going on right now in the house and senate. tom daschle leading the way. he has all the facts, if he sees a smoking gun then im sure he will let it be known.

 

[Prometheus]

good points. hindsight is always 20/20 - its much easier to scan a finite set of possibilities and ask how someone could have missed one than it is to look at an infinite set and predict which will happen.

to stop "a terrorist threat on an important place" in a country the size of the US is a very tall order. that said, we do employ thousands and give them billions to do just that, so these accusations might be good for something if they keep the CIA, FBI, ATF, etc. on their toes...

 

[the nature boy]

sorry I disagree with all of you. there are people within government that have jobs to protect us from what happened on 9-11. They didn't do their job and they had advanced notice.

I heard someone say that the government gets lots of threats and advance warnings but most of them turn out to be phony. TOUGH SHIT!!! Do your fucking job, and their job is to follow up on those threats. People got lazy, and 3000+ died. Do you think they're taking threats lightly now? hell no.

 

[danielson]

look at society today

a doctor goes to work and someone dies. he had prior evidence of patenti history etc but made crucial errors. is a full scale investigation launched....yes and pretty sharpish

a policeman shoots someone whop ends up being a person with a hairdryer. full scale investigation....yes





yet when 2 boeing big as fuck planes planes deviate from their flight pattern and refuse to answer radio communiques it takes the military THAT long until they can get a plane up? and when they had forewarning some bad shit was gonna go down? a highetend state of emergency might be warranted in the military

NB is right on the money. consipracy theory or not, someone fucked up and it should be FULLY investigated. why then the prior notification of the attacks has onlybeen released now.....

 

[the nature boy]

someone sent me bad karma saying in effect there is no conspiracy going on here. maybe, or maybe not.

but some people didnt' do their frigging jobs, that much is obvious.

 

[danielson]

someone sent me bad karma saying in effect there is no conspiracy going on here. maybe, or maybe not.

but some people didnt' do their frigging jobs, that much is obvious.

is any of the investigation gonna be made public?

 

[buddy28]

the house and senate intelligence committees both had all the information the president was privy too. they are just as responsible if not more so that the president to take action. they did not take any action before the attacks.

not exactly.

Both National Security Advisor to the President, Condelezza Rice, and Sen. Richard Shelby -R, who serves on senate intelligence committee state that other Intelligence committee members recieved the same classified report as the President.

"....he [Sen. Richard Shelby] said the top members of the House and Senate intelligence committees -- himself; Graham; Florida GOP Rep. Porter Goss, the House Intelligence Committee chairman; and California Rep. Nancy Pelosi, the House panel's ranking Democrat -- received the same classified information as the president.

Rice also told Senate Democrats in a meeting Thursday that some of them were privy to the same information. "
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/16/bush.sept.11/index.html


But Grahm D-Florida and Rep. Saxby Chambliss, R-Georgia, both Intelligence Committee members, are quoted in that same article as having recieved a censored version of the Intelligence report given to Bush on August 6th, 2001 which *did* *not* suggest Al Queda may be ploting to hijack commercial airliners, or claimed they never received the classified intelligence report at all.

"Graham told reporters he and his colleagues were given a less detailed briefing than the one given to the president, and said he was never given information about potential hijackings.

And some members of the intelligence committees complained that they had not been informed at all.

"That information should have been given to us, and it wasn't," said Rep. Saxby Chambliss, R-Georgia, a member of the House Intelligence Committee."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/16/bush.sept.11/index.html

 

[bigpimp]

so fucking what if they knew about it..............do you people realize how many threats of terrorism the government gets everyday thats turns out to be bullshit.............

 

[danielson]

so fucking what if they knew about it..............do you people realize how many threats of terrorism the government gets everyday thats turns out to be bullshit.............

i remember buddy28 posting a thread FULL of warnings from all different countries security agencies. i would say his one would hold enough water to put a handful of fighters on standby



this looks like negligence

 

[buddy28]

yet when 2 boeing big as fuck planes planes deviate from their flight pattern and refuse to answer radio communiques it takes the military THAT long until they can get a plane up? and when they had forewarning some bad shit was gonna go down? a highetend state of emergency might be warranted in the military

NB is right on the money. consipracy theory or not, someone fucked up and it should be FULLY investigated. why then the prior notification of the attacks has onlybeen released now.....

Your pretty astute Danielson. I read the thread posted on sept 11th 2001 regarding the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon as they unfolded.

A member claimed a plane had hit the Pentagon. You insinuated it was highly unlikely since the Pentagon would have had aircover. I thought ur comment was pretty interesting considering all the other info thats becoming public.

 

[spongebob]

look at society today

a doctor goes to work and someone dies. he had prior evidence of patenti history etc but made crucial errors. is a full scale investigation launched....yes and pretty sharpish

a policeman shoots someone whop ends up being a person with a hairdryer. full scale investigation....yes





yet when 2 boeing big as fuck planes planes deviate from their flight pattern and refuse to answer radio communiques it takes the military THAT long until they can get a plane up? and when they had forewarning some bad shit was gonna go down? a highetend state of emergency might be warranted in the military

NB is right on the money. consipracy theory or not, someone fucked up and it should be FULLY investigated. why then the prior notification of the attacks has onlybeen released now.....

the house and senate intelligence committees are investigating it.

 

[spongebob]

not exactly.

Both National Security Advisor to the President, Condelezza Rice, and Sen. Richard Shelby -R, who serves on senate intelligence committee state that other Intelligence committee members recieved the same classified report as the President.

"....he [Sen. Richard Shelby] said the top members of the House and Senate intelligence committees -- himself; Graham; Florida GOP Rep. Porter Goss, the House Intelligence Committee chairman; and California Rep. Nancy Pelosi, the House panel's ranking Democrat -- received the same classified information as the president.

Rice also told Senate Democrats in a meeting Thursday that some of them were privy to the same information. "
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/16/bush.sept.11/index.html


But Grahm D-Florida and Rep. Saxby Chambliss, R-Georgia, both Intelligence Committee members, are quoted in that same article as having recieved a censored version of the Intelligence report given to Bush on August 6th, 2001 which *did* *not* suggest Al Queda may be ploting to hijack commercial airliners, or claimed they never received the classified intelligence report at all.

"Graham told reporters he and his colleagues were given a less detailed briefing than the one given to the president, and said he was never given information about potential hijackings.

And some members of the intelligence committees complained that they had not been informed at all.

"That information should have been given to us, and it wasn't," said Rep. Saxby Chambliss, R-Georgia, a member of the House Intelligence Committee."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/16/bush.sept.11/index.html

oh great, now we have to argue about a he-said/she-said article

 

[danielson]

the house and senate intelligence committees are investigating it.

i know, i read where you posted it before!

i made that post merely to state that public scrutiny of the attacks with regards to internal defences is only just starting to increase, whereas cases with much lesser death counts would have the general public screaming blue murder

 

[danielson]

Your pretty astute Danielson. I read the thread posted on sept 11th 2001 regarding the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon as they unfolded.

A member claimed a plane had hit the Pentagon. You insinuated it was highly unlikely since the Pentagon would have had aircover. I thought ur comment was pretty interesting considering all the other info thats becoming public.

i'll have to go check. i forgot what i posted.

just checked it. yup, i remember now. stll can;t believe it. that thread really makes you think back

 

[spongebob]

i remember buddy28 posting a thread FULL of warnings from all different countries security agencies. i would say his one would hold enough water to put a handful of fighters on standby



this looks like negligence

there were warnings issued for some of those threats. you just dont hear about them daily. not to mention the warnings themselves did not explicitly say 9-11.

 

[danielson]

there were warnings issued for some of those threats. you just dont hear about them daily. not to mention the warnings themselves did not explicitly say 9-11.

im just still in awe that given these planes were deviating from their flight planes etc and that a greaterthan normal threat assesment was made by many security services (egypt, russia etc) they didnt have a few fighters fuelled. HELL, they are supposed to have them at combat readiness anyway.

conspiracy seems very far fetched to me IMHO, as at the end of the day allowing the WTC to be destroyed is too extreme. but i do think there has been a gross negligence on the part of others

italy got a similar warning and brought out a missle battery for the G8 conference. i'm glad they are invesitgating it but im just a litle miffed they waited THIS long before telling us oer terrestrial news that forewarning had occured

 

[spongebob]

im just still in awe that given these planes were deviating from their flight planes etc and that a greaterthan normal threat assesment was made by many security services (egypt, russia etc) they didnt have a few fighters fuelled. HELL, they are supposed to have them at combat readiness anyway.

conspiracy seems very far fetched to me IMHO, as at the end of the day allowing the WTC to be destroyed is too extreme. but i do think there has been a gross negligence on the part of others

italy got a similar warning and brought out a missle battery for the G8 conference. i'm glad they are invesitgating it but im just a litle miffed they waited THIS long before telling us oer terrestrial news that forewarning had occured

i agree 100%.

i think it was an extreme wake up call. i also think its not the last one.

 

[danielson]

i agree 100%.

i think it was an extreme wake up call. i also think its not the last one.

i hope not, but i;d haveto agree as well

 

[spongebob]

i hope not, but i;d haveto agree as well

danielson, the orielly show was just on and he had two good gues speaking on this subject. one was a democrat and the other was former CIA. the CIA guy really shed some light on how intelligence is handled and distributed through the various agencies. he also said that the FAA is not even a part of the meetings they have regarding warnings and threats.

buddy, he also said that in general, the FBI and the CIA have somewhat of a distant relationship, based on the fact that they do different jobs. CIA gathers intelligence while the fbi does so but biulds cases and helps prosecute. he said that the Murad plot of 1995 in the philippines, the one rearding planes and the pentagon, was not even turned over to the CIA from the FBI. in other words they did not explicitly tell them that information. kind of destroys credibility of your arguement that the two agencies work together smoothly.

it was a very good interview, you should watch it.

 

[buddy28]

oh great, now we have to argue about a he-said/she-said article

This is how its done.

 

[buddy28]

buddy, he also said that in general, the FBI and the CIA have somewhat of a distant relationship, based on the fact that they do different jobs. CIA gathers intelligence while the fbi does so but biulds cases and helps prosecute. he said that the Murad plot of 1995 in the philippines, the one rearding planes and the pentagon, was not even turned over to the CIA from the FBI. in other words they did not explicitly tell them that information. kind of destroys credibility of your arguement that the two agencies work together smoothly.
.

True. The lack of intelligence sharing between the FBI and CIA prior to sept 11th will be examined in detail by the congressional investigative committee into the sept 11 th attacks.

But you have to also consider, that in early July 2001, the CIA coordinated an interdepartmental task force aimed at thwarting Al Queda terrorist attacks the CIA then beleived were imminent:

"“intelligence had been streaming in concerning a likely Al Qaeda attack. ‘It all came together in the third week in June [2001],’ Clarke said. ‘The C.I.A.'s view was that a major terrorist attack was coming in the next several weeks.’ On July 5th, Clarke summoned all the domestic security agencies—the Federal Aviation Administration, the Coast Guard, Customs, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and the F.B.I.—and told them to increase their security in light of an impending attack.”
The New Yorker, Issue of January 14, 2002:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?020114fa_FACT1


In order to beleive the FBI and CIA completely fumbled intelligence sharing, we'd have to beleive that after the CIA had intiated the interdepartmental joint task force aimed at foiling 'impending' Al Queda attacks in July, these highly revealing FBI documents and arrests ('Phenioex Report', Zacarous Mossouii), that had direct relevance to a possible terrorist plot, most of which were discovered *after* the CIA had warned the FBI of impending terrorist attacks, were misplaced, ignored, or put in the 'wrong hands'.

 

[spongebob]

But you have to also consider, that in early July 2001, the CIA coordinated an interdepartmental task force aimed at thwarting Al Queda terrorist attacks the CIA then beleived were imminent:

"“intelligence had been streaming in concerning a likely Al Qaeda attack. ‘It all came together in the third week in June [2001],’ Clarke said. ‘The C.I.A.'s view was that a major terrorist attack was coming in the next several weeks.’ On July 5th, Clarke summoned all the domestic security agencies—the Federal Aviation Administration, the Coast Guard, Customs, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, and the F.B.I.—and told them to increase their security in light of an impending attack.”
The New Yorker, Issue of January 14, 2002:
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?020114fa_FACT1


In order to beleive the FBI and CIA completely fumbled intelligence sharing, we'd have to beleive that after the CIA had intiated the interdepartmental joint task force aimed at foiling 'impending' Al Queda attacks in July, these highly revealing FBI documents and arrests ('Phenioex Report', Zacarous Mossouii), that had direct relevance to a possible terrorist plot, most of which were discovered *after* the CIA had warned the FBI of impending terrorist attacks, were misplaced, ignored, or put in the 'wrong hands'.

someone has already said that clarke had done a miserable job. that is a qoute from him, i dont neccessarily believe it.

i would like to see proff of that july 5th meeting. and what exactly it pertained to. i have seen that strong warnings were put forth for overseas installations.

so your second arguement may be half false. and to sum it up, there were never no mentions of the exact date 9-11. the problem here was they were re-actionary instead of pro-actionary. thier living in real time and your looking back with 20/20 hinesight.

 

[the nature boy]

so fucking what if they knew about it..............do you people realize how many threats of terrorism the government gets everyday thats turns out to be bullshit.............

so what? you still have to treat them all seriously, or else you get a 9-11.

 

[spongebob]

so what? you still have to treat them all seriously, or else you get a 9-11.

and you get a WTC 93' , khobar towers, USS cole, and countless others.

 

[buddy28]

thier living in real time and your looking back with 20/20 hinesight.

Still sticking to your guns, huh?

 

[spongebob]

Still sticking to your guns, huh?

be honest with you, i dont know why i even click on these threads, we had a fairly lenthy discussion that covered alot. but i just cant help myself i guess. oh well. anyways, im glad alot more is being analyzed in the real media now, even though it may not be hardcore stuff but its a start and its beginning to shed more light on some unanswered stuff. it should get better. i think we will eventually have enough to make some sort of logical explanation out of it. man is it complex though. its alot to try an analyze. i havnt read too much lately but im printing stuff out tonight to take to work to come up to speed.

 

[buddy28]

agreed. Theres a shite load to go through and piece together.

Some of the really interesting reading though is the whole fighter intercept 'debacle'.

I wonder if the congressional investigative committee will address it.

take er ease. Im off for the night.

 

[spongebob]

agreed. Theres a shite load to go through and piece together.

Some of the really interesting reading though is the whole fighter intercept 'debacle'.

I wonder if the congressional investigative committee will address it.

take er ease. Im off for the night.

just watched 'on the record with greta van susteren' another good show with some good guest. one was the guy who headed up the study that had 25 suggestions for dealing with terrorism, it was conducted in 99'. and the other guest was an author on the CIA. he said louis freeh was a complete dinosour, the computers were so old they couldnt even donate them to local libraries, they didnt want them. he also said freeh refused to use the email system, cause he was old school. kind of like an old carpenter that refuses to use a pnuematic nailer.

i think we are gonna really start to see some things pieced together here. as far as the committee, i hope they investigate everything, so we know. ok im out.

i missed hannity and colmes, but i'll catch the re-run.