75-76 Thrower Strength Norms

[coolcolj]

Here is interesting data from the 1975-76 Olympic Shotput & Discus camps. This is a small tidbit from it, but will give you the ballpark on how strong strong is when talking about elite throwers from a practical sense, not from "information from periodicals."

Here's how strong those elite US guys were- the group sample size after each lift, the group average, and the range (min and maxes of the group in question):

First, The Shotputters, in lbs:

Benchpress:
N=15, 453.13 avg (400-520 range)

Squat:
N=16, 602.17 (480-750)

Power Clean:
N=15, 363.73 (320-410)

Incline Bench:
N=14, 390.64, (315-460)

Snatch:
N=12, 293.83 (235-375)

C&J:
N=11, 388.09 (310-440)

Push Press:
N=11, 374.45 (275-460)

D/L:
N=13, 618.46 (510-700)



And The Discus Throwers:

BP:
N=12, 411.28 (350-475)

SQ:
N=11, 536.54 (400-700)

PC:
N=11, 329.92 (230-410)

IBP:
N=8, 314.37 (260-335)

Snatch:
N=10, 246.00 (190-275)

C&J:
N=9, 309.50 (250-410)

PP:
N=8, 305.51 (220-450)

D/L:
N=10, 572.50 (430-675)

 

[skaman607]

My dad was a shot putter around then, and he was nowhere near that in bench, he threw about 50 feet.

 

[slobberknocker]

Cool post. IMO, the clean and jerk stats is the most impressive. That's a lot of friggin' weight.

I wonder what kinds of numbers they're putting up nowadays.

 

[coolcolj]

well your talking about elite level people here, and these guys tend to be rather tall and big. Think Strongmen type builds

250-350lb bodyweight range

 

[argent]

I find it strange that the push press is less than the Clean and Jerk. It would seem to me that by eliminating the clean, it would be easier to press it up. Impressive either way. I enjoyed this bro, thnak you.

 

[Lord_Suston]

that friggin disgusting. I want to be that strong but it seems like it will take me a while. hopefully I can grow a few more inches but I doubt it

 

[coolcolj]

Well I doubt most of these guys are not on vitamin S

top putters from the 90s
I know the top guy definitely is on - East german dude

height weight shotput verticaljump 30m-dash bench squat (parallel) powerclean standing-long-jump
http://web.archive.org/web/20011106025436/www.enteract.com/~bwal/spft.htm

Ramona Pagel is 5'11" 185 though!

 

[Deepsquat]

wel...I am at least in the range with the discus guys ..on all exercises..but the shot putters have me on everthing ..except squat....fuck I am week!

 

[Zander1983]

Monsters. I imagine with improved training, nutritional and anabolic techniques, that they are putting up even more impressive numbers these days (though I do imagine they would've been seriously "assisted" in the 70s!).

 

[mekannik]

I have one past Olympic thrower working out at my gym. Jud Logan (4 Olympic appearances in the Hammer Throw) - 6'4" 275#, a little heavier in retirement - but still big and strong. He told me that other day when he was training some college throwers in the snatch - he one armed 80Kg (176#) with an Olympic bar.


And the guy that got me started - John McEwen - is 6'4" 290#. Bench 500, Squat 700, Snatch 308, Clean 400. 38-40" vertical.

ANIMALS. Plain and simple.

 

[collegiateLifter]

Monsters. I imagine with improved training, nutritional and anabolic techniques, that they are putting up even more impressive numbers these days (though I do imagine they would've been seriously "assisted" in the 70s!).

I doubt it. I was reading i believe at elitefts about throwers of old. Originally they focused most only on maximal strength, but then they eventually realized that increased maximal strength would have little benefit for their event. Thus they started spending more time working on explosive strength (accelerative for the shotput, not sure for the discus). So even higher numbers today would most likely be a waste of work. I also doubt that these guys used nearly as much gear as the guys on the anabolic board. They were just freaks with great and brutally hard training.

 

[benchmonster]

Hey Collegiate,

I have this great bridge I would like to sell you. . .

Dude, guys today have better access to, and more knowledge of sauce than ever. Did any of those juicers from the 70's use Insulin? Human Growth Hormone? Clen? Nope. And why not?

Cause nobody new Insulin worked, and HGH and clen were not around yet. You could take just those 3 substances, pass every IOC test in the world, and be so much stronger than your clean self it would be hard to recognize you as the same person.

And I have read the same article you did at elitefts.com. Did you miss the part where the best shotputters were doing 500+ lbs in a push press, or a split jerk? That is strong as home made soap. The point of that article was to point out that while you need maximal strength, for that strength to continue to excel, it has to be explosive. They train more explosively now, true, but that is in an effort to increase their strength.

It is not a situation where you sacrifice maximal strength for explosiveness, or vice versa, one builds upon the other.

That being said, there is no doubt these guys were freaks and did work very hard and smart. But all top level athletes in strength sports are on the sauce. You can't be world class unless you are doing everything that everyone else is doing to get there.

People like to believe that with enough hard work you can get the same results as someone else will who is on the sauce. You can choose to think that way if you want, but that type of thinking does not lead to winning. It is the equivalent of trying to take a Corvette to the Indy 500 and expect to win. Sure you might drive your car harder and smarter than anyone else out there, but in the end, you are not going to be able to sniff the winners, cause they are driving million dollar carbon fiber computerized high horsepower racers, while you are in a production car.

B.

 

[collegiateLifter]

hey Benchmonster,

did you read my post?



the only point that you make that is even related to what i said, is your contention that the elitefts article says today's top guys push press 500+ lbs. I can't seem to find the article, however when you consider that the BEST superheavyweight clean and jerk (and the jerk is always the limmitting factor of the 2 parts of this lift) is in the upper 500s i find it dubious that top shotputters are pushpressing (much harder than jerking) in the 500s. If you can find the article and prove me wrong, then i'll admit it.

However, your assertion that one builds upon the other again is not really true either. The shotput has a fixed weight. It is not that heavy of an implement. In my view its like the text book example out of Science and Practice where a guy wants to improve his vertical. So what does he do? if he squats only his bodyweight, then he works mainly on maximal strength. However if he already squats double bodyweight, Zatsiorsky explains that further increase in maximal strenght would have very little positive benefit, where as working on explosive strength could greatly benefit the athlete. It is possible i underestimate the magnitude of strenght useful in shotputting, but thus far i doubt it.



as for EVERYTHING else that you said, it has nothing to do with my post. You try to educate me through my supposed naivety, that doesn't exist. Re-read my post.