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6.5" Multiway speakers vs. component

TheProject

TheProject

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Any car audio buffs care to help me out here? I'm looking at new speakers to replace the factory door speakers in my truck, but don't want to break the bank.

What do y'all suggest?
 
what are you lookin to spend?
do you have a factory head unit?
what kind of music do you listen to?

most likely components anyways...
 
i'd have to say components, but it depends on how good of sound quality you want really and how much money you have.

i'm still lusting after a Boston Acoustics 3 way set....yeah, the 6 1/2" woofer, 4" midrange, and 1" tweeter combo.... :p
 
crak600 said:
i'd have to say components, but it depends on how good of sound quality you want really and how much money you have.

i'm still lusting after a Boston Acoustics 3 way set....yeah, the 6 1/2" woofer, 4" midrange, and 1" tweeter combo.... :p
Click to expand...


ha, that 6.5 3 set is what im lookin at for my kicks im building

ive got the power to devote to them
 
personally for sound quality I like components, you get more highs and claritly from the tweets and more bass/mid bass from the 6's, but you will need a higher power amp to get the full effect, other wise they will sound like shit and/or get blown

but with the multi's you get them all in one package, no need to cut holes for the tweets, or find a place to put the amp and cross overs, you can power it off the deck most of the time, and if you get a good pair it can sound pretty good

its a catch 22, if you already have an amp then go with components, if not get some multis that are rated for your deck to get the full use of the power, dont get some multis rated for 220 watts when your deck only puses 45, a lot of times that will blow your speakers

you feel me?
 
PoyeBoy said:
dont get some multis rated for 220 watts when your deck only puses 45, a lot of times that will blow your speakers

you feel me?
Click to expand...

explain how you figure you can blow speakers rated for a higher wattage than a head unit.
 
an infinity reference comp set gives you great bang for your buck. MANY car audio gurus have even told me this.
 
crak600 said:
explain how you figure you can blow speakers rated for a higher wattage than a head unit.
Click to expand...

straight from polk audio website:
Speakers can be harmed when you push an amp beyond its power capabilities. It'll "clip" the signal, which produces both mechanical and thermal stresses on a speaker's voice coil. The speaker's voice coil gets banged around, overheats, and ultimately breaks. But you're actually less likely to blow a speaker by using too much power than you are by using too little power. If you like to play it loud, get a bigger amplifier
 
I always thought the 3-ways were a bad idea because you wanted round cones? Make sure you get a set that allows you to adjuct the direction of the tweeter.
 
PoyeBoy said:
straight from polk audio website:
Speakers can be harmed when you push an amp beyond its power capabilities. It'll "clip" the signal, which produces both mechanical and thermal stresses on a speaker's voice coil. The speaker's voice coil gets banged around, overheats, and ultimately breaks. But you're actually less likely to blow a speaker by using too much power than you are by using too little power. If you like to play it loud, get a bigger amplifier
Click to expand...

What he means is the way you typed your post, it looked like you were saying that you could blow 220 watt speakers with a 45 watt amp (not gonna happen).

Some people swear by MB Quart speakers/tweets, Pioneer makes quality speakers too.
 
BeefyBull said:
What he means is the way you typed your post, it looked like you were saying that you could blow 220 watt speakers with a 45 watt amp (not gonna happen).

Some people swear by MB Quart speakers/tweets, Pioneer makes quality speakers too.
Click to expand...

noope, thats what I was saying, it may not be true, but I have heard it from dozens of people, people that even compete in car audio comps

example, if you try and bump a 12inch sub rated at 400 watts on an amp that only pushes 50 watts you will possibly blow/fry your subs, most people think blowing your subs means like blowing them up like "BOOM", thats not always the case
 
Distorsion is what blows speakers!
But another case is a 20 watt speaker will get blown hooked to a 400 watt amp also.

It all boils down to matching the components.


RADAR
 
I've got a Kenwood CD/MP3 deck, maximum power rated at 58Wx4. I wouldn't mind putting an amp behind that, but I'm not spending the cash on it right now.

The doors have factory 6.5" and 1.5" components in 'em right now, and I'm looking to replace those. I think I've blown one of them, and they don't produce good sound anyway (obviously). Best Buy has a Rockford Fosgate set on clearance for $129, and I've seen other sets on Crutchfield.com that run several hundred dollars. I'd prefer not to go over $150.

Most of the time, I'm listening to rock (Disturbed, Godsmack, etc.)
 
i'll toss in a suggestion since you've named your price - check out Audiobahn speakers. i'm running 2 pairs of them in my blazer, 4x6 set in the front and a 6 1/2 set in the rear. they sound ok, and i, like you, listen to a lot of metal. the audiobahns are a component/coaxil set. the center of the woofers is cut out and you can mount the tweeter there or remote mount it, your choice. adds some flexibility w/out breaking the bank. so bang for the buck, i really don't think they're bad at all.

ok, now the power issue that Poyeboy brought up.....i always make sure my speakers are rated for more watts RMS than my amps put out. i only base everything on RMS. peak power ratings can be double what RMS are (and that's how a lot of manufacturers advertise to make you think you're getting more power :rolleyes: ), but i never pay attention to it. i've heard car speakers over the years that were torn up by distortion (from crappy power, not shredding guitars), but never heard any that were killed simply because they were underpowered. i've killed one set of speakers by overpowering them, but never the other way around.

distortion from an amp or head unit is a killer to speakers, no doubt. i think the reason people blow speakers when they're underpowered is because they crank the amps up as loud as possible to try to get more out of it and feed the speaker nothing but distortion, which will kill it. so it's not really being underpowered, it's the distortion issue. you want your speakers to recieve the cleanest power availible. if that means you can't crank it up all the way, so be it. you gotta know when to back off on the volume knob based on the capabilities of the equipment you own.

i've got a kenwood head unit and kenwood amps in my car. the head unit only puts out a few watts less RMS than the amp is rated for (25x4 amp). however, the amp is cleaner and louder than the head unit could ever dream of being. the speakers are rated for i believe 50watts RMS, can't remember off the top of my head. good setup, sounds clean, and is loud enough that my ears ring like hell if i turn it up to "rockin" volume :D gotta love having subs for heavy metal too. the thumps...intense.
 
Yeah, I think that's what Poye was getting at as well...that if you use a head unit to drive speakers, regardless of their rating, the distortion will kill 'em. Not so much an issue of underpowered vs. overpowered as much as it is a problem with wanting the music louder than your system can effectively deliver.

I'm not familiar with Audiobahn...will have to check them out.
 
crak600 said:
i'll toss in a suggestion since you've named your price - check out Audiobahn speakers. i'm running 2 pairs of them in my blazer, 4x6 set in the front and a 6 1/2 set in the rear. they sound ok, and i, like you, listen to a lot of metal. the audiobahns are a component/coaxil set. the center of the woofers is cut out and you can mount the tweeter there or remote mount it, your choice. adds some flexibility w/out breaking the bank. so bang for the buck, i really don't think they're bad at all.
Click to expand...

yeah I had a pair of audiobahn 6.5's component set running off a rockford 100x2 amp, they sounded really really good, and the mid bass was good as well, the tweets were really good, plus I got the components for like 75 bucks, you cant beat that for a nice sounding component, also check ebay, you can get some killer deals on audio stuff

let us know what you get
 
Poyeboy is right bros. Actually you should get a MORE powerful amp than speakers. If you`re gonna get one higher than the other, Definately get the higher rated amp to protect the speakers.

I don`t know anything about car audio, this is solely from home audio stuff. If you have 250 watt speakers, you can easily get a 400 watt (actually recommended) amp to drive them. That combo will sound sweet!
 
um, no, i'd never use an amp that's rated for more than the speakers can handle. problem there is you can say "well, i'll just keep it turned down to a moderate level." doesn't matter. i'll explain. on an amp, yes, you can adjust the input level. that is all you are adjusting, the sensitivity of the input. basically adjusting the preamp level. the actual amplification is not adjusted. you can turn a car audio amp down all the way yet still send out a max power spike. say your amp is rated for 60x2 and your speakers are rated for 40 watts, you can blow the speakers with the amp turned down to a moderate level.

trust me on this one. i took a few years of electronics in high school as well as a semester of it in college. my Dad is an Electrical Engineer. he's the one that explained this one to me in full detail. when Dad explained stuff, he didn't give you a verbal explanation, you got diagrams and what not.

i'd err on the side of caution. if you're going to amp speakers, go for an amp that is rated RMS close to what your speakers are rated for RMS, if not just slightly less.

and ignore peak watt rating. RMS is what is important. peak doens't happen often. RMS is what is important. that's what an amp can put out continously and what a speaker can recieve continously.
 
crak600 said:
um, no, i'd never use an amp that's rated for more than the speakers can handle. problem there is you can say "well, i'll just keep it turned down to a moderate level." doesn't matter. i'll explain. on an amp, yes, you can adjust the input level. that is all you are adjusting, the sensitivity of the input. basically adjusting the preamp level. the actual amplification is not adjusted. you can turn a car audio amp down all the way yet still send out a max power spike. say your amp is rated for 60x2 and your speakers are rated for 40 watts, you can blow the speakers with the amp turned down to a moderate level.

trust me on this one. i took a few years of electronics in high school as well as a semester of it in college. my Dad is an Electrical Engineer. he's the one that explained this one to me in full detail. when Dad explained stuff, he didn't give you a verbal explanation, you got diagrams and what not.

i'd err on the side of caution. if you're going to amp speakers, go for an amp that is rated RMS close to what your speakers are rated for RMS, if not just slightly less.

and ignore peak watt rating. RMS is what is important. peak doens't happen often. RMS is what is important. that's what an amp can put out continously and what a speaker can recieve continously.
Click to expand...


Many good points. No rebuttle for you but I may be back another day. You certainly know more than I do, but some things that you learn just stick with you. We`ll see if they were myths though.
 
In my old car, I had a mmatts amp putting out 1200 watts rms @ 2 ohms mono into 6 jl12w6's... equating to no more than 200 w/ speaker right? ... well these are rated at well over 200W rms and I must've blown at least 3 of them... and yes the amp was putting out a true 1200 rms and yes the speakers were wired to a PERFECT 2 ohm load. It is very possible to blow speakers when pushing less than their max wattage. Also don't forget most shit is rated in max power handling not rms...
 
ZKaudio said:
In my old car, I had a mmatts amp putting out 1200 watts rms @ 2 ohms mono into 6 jl12w6's... equating to no more than 200 w/ speaker right? ... well these are rated at well over 200W rms and I must've blown at least 3 of them... and yes the amp was putting out a true 1200 rms and yes the speakers were wired to a PERFECT 2 ohm load. It is very possible to blow speakers when pushing less than their max wattage. Also don't forget most shit is rated in max power handling not rms...
Click to expand...
absolutely correct!

RADAR
 
while we're on the topic... make sure you aren't runnign too low impediance, or you will be running close to double wattage. Two ways to wire your speakers... Series, Parallel, or both if you have Dual voice coil speakers. Series is when you connect a neg and pos from each speaker to each other and run the remaining neg and pos as teh active line to both the speakers. This will yeild an impediance double that of each speaker... so if you wire two 4 ohm speakers in series.. ur gonna come out with 8 ohm. Higher ohm = higher resistance... lower ohm = lower resistance. Parallel... where you just run the same + and - to both speakers or connect the two... will yeild half the impedience of one of the two speakers... YOu basically take your impediance of one speaker and divide by teh number of speakers for those wired in parallel, conversely-multiply times the number of speakers for those wired in series... You want to run the speakers into your amp at with the lowest possible impediance... amp willing. Most amps out there (save high current amps) are rated at 4 ohms mono... but they will say 2 ohm max on them... this means that on a 2 channel amp, you could have a 4 ohm on left chan and a 4 ohm on the right chan, since amps are internally wired parallel, your amp would be facing a 2 ohm load... chances are, however, you're going to bridge your amp... take the neg from the left channel and the pos. from your right channel and use those two wires to run a MONO output to your subs. This is going to make the max load to your amp once again 4 ohms... b/c the amp is effectively parallel wired b/w the two channels. Too low of a load will theoretically double wattage but it will also overheat and roast your amp...if you are going to be doing your own wiring on any stereo system.. just do yourself a favor and get a multimeter. That way you can make sure voltage going to amps and grounds are effective and that your speaker wiring is up to par. I've seen this question asked before and have some time so i figured why not type it out... sorry if it doesn't pertain to the question at hand.
 
ZKaudio said:
In my old car, I had a mmatts amp putting out 1200 watts rms @ 2 ohms mono into 6 jl12w6's... equating to no more than 200 w/ speaker right? ... well these are rated at well over 200W rms and I must've blown at least 3 of them... and yes the amp was putting out a true 1200 rms and yes the speakers were wired to a PERFECT 2 ohm load. It is very possible to blow speakers when pushing less than their max wattage. Also don't forget most shit is rated in max power handling not rms...
Click to expand...

as far as blowing out the speakers goes.....the only thing i would being to think of is that even though in hypothesis you are putting 200 watts to each speaker, think of it this way - when they were all wired in as a mono load, they function as one resistor to the amp. ALL 6 of them can see that 1200 watts at once because to the amp, it's just one 2ohm resistor. even though each speaker is a part of that resistor, they are still wired down to 2ohms and are all seeing 1200watts.

does that make any sense? that's at least how i'm thinking of this as to how you blew 3 of the speakers (and we're talking speakers, not voice coils, right?)

i'm currently running 2 subs (PPI 12" C1s) wired down to 2 ohms sharing 300watts. the amp is rated for 200watts@4ohms and 300watts@2ohms. i get enough thump in my 91 blazer with that setup, although i'd like just a wee bit more. i can't imagine having to run 6 subs at 4x the power i'm using unless you are involved in db competition.

if you're still using that setup, maybe wire it up to 4ohms. i still can't imagine needing 1200watts true RMS power unless you're in competition. and to think i'm comfortable with 300watts, i just want a pair of subs that take up less room AND handle the power a bit more efficiently. i can live with a mere 300watts pushing them (and quite happily, i might add).
 
alright. i think i have THE BEST answer to this issue.

www.sounddomain.com

there is a fantastic forum on that website devoted to car audio, and i doubt you'll find one much better on the web. lots of know-it-alls on there that are very knowledgable in everything concerning car audio. i mean, we all come to the EF boards for knowledge on our health; it just makes sense to go to an audio forum for the best information regarding car audio.

ps - www.thezeb.com and ebay are both great places to find excellent audio equipment at affordable prices.
 
matto18 said:
alright. i think i have THE BEST answer to this issue.

www.sounddomain.com

there is a fantastic forum on that website devoted to car audio, and i doubt you'll find one much better on the web. lots of know-it-alls on there that are very knowledgable in everything concerning car audio. i mean, we all come to the EF boards for knowledge on our health; it just makes sense to go to an audio forum for the best information regarding car audio.

ps - www.thezeb.com and ebay are both great places to find excellent audio equipment at affordable prices.
Click to expand...


So if I asked the question at this forum, "What is better to err on the side of, Getting a bigger than needed amp, or higher rated speakers consequently with a less powerful amp driving them?" What would the answer be? In my argument (or assumption from reading in the past) the answer would be a higher rated amp than speaker capabilty.

We still on the same page? Can I post the question? I don`t want to ask a different question than we discussed. crak?
 
i'm against going for more wattage than your speakers are rated for due to the fact that you can spike max output even with the amp turned down all the way. match your components if you think it's an issue. speakers rated for 50watts each, get a 50watt/channel amp. problem solved. i sure as hell am not going to hook up a 100watt/channel or even a 75watt/channel amp to my 50watt speakers, if you want to do that on your system, by all means, do it. i crank my music up all the time and i'm not risking blowing out my system because i'm pumping too much power into my speakers. doesn't matter how low the preamp is turned down, it can still happen. you can blow out a speaker faster by putting too much power into it than you can by throwing distortion into it. distortion is going to kill it over time. overpowering is going to kill it pretty fast.

i am speaking from experience here. first stereo i hooked up, i had 40watt speakers and a 60watt/channel amp. i turned the preamp down pretty damn far, and the system sounded clean. within a week i blew a speaker. granted, i wasn't using all high end equipment, but i was using the stuff the average person could buy at circuit city. since that time, however, i have underpowered my speakers and have not had a problem. my 50watt speakers are running on a 25watt/channel amp in my car and sound perfectly fine (and loud enough for me for now).
 
if you buy decent speakers, you don't have to worry about that. I competed for 3 yrs in db drag racing and even a few sound qual comps... if you are running high quality components with HIGH QUALITY crossovers, you're not going to blow speakers that easily. You should always overpower and turn volume down. It's a common opinion among all competitors. Pretty simple... as you increase amp output, you increase distortion... why would you want to do that on highs? I ran 200 w/ RMS to each channel of my highs... all just 6.5 inch planet audio seperates... never blew one speaker and also never heard an ounce of distortion. Cut off the low end of the 6.5's and throw some 8inch kick panels if you really want to up the wattage... that'll give your 6.5's some room to play the midrange better.
 
ok, now we're starting to differ in our focus. my focus in this conversation has been towards the average person, not the competitor (with exception to your blowing of W6s and my comments on that).

with high end components, the whole thing changes. some high end amps and speakers are rated ultra conservatively, and that changes the game considerably. so in which direction are we taking this now? high end or average consumer end? if we're going high end, i'm out of the conversation because i havn't researched anything ultra expensive in a while. all i've been looking at lately is the most bang for the buck, but i don't really have the money to spend unless a really good deal comes my way.
 
ZKaudio said:
You should always overpower and turn volume down. It's a common opinion among all competitors.
Click to expand...


That`s what I`ve read and understood for a long time. Like I said earlier, it could be a myth... I don`t know, but I took it to be true from hearing it a thousand times AND it made sense.

Again I only deal with my home system and I went from a 100watt surround receiver to a 220 watt seperate Parasound 2205 amp for my bookshelf speakers (Paradigm Studio 40`s) and it`s awesome.
 
 
Last edited:
i dunno about the quality of teh cerwin vegas or the alpines.

infinity should be good.

JBL should be good as well. buddy used a set of them years ago for competition and did quite well.

Audiobahn - i feel good bang for the buck, but depends on just how good of quality you want in your sound.

i wouldn't mind checkout out audiobahn's 34" subs. wonder if they actually sound good.
 
I have zero experience with Kicker stuff, so I don't know if it's good or bad.

I've got Vegas in my house, and they're not bad...mostly a "loud" speaker, rather than a crisp speaker, and my taste has kinda gone beyond that. From what I know, Alpine's always made good decks and amps, but I've never tried their speakers.

Now I'm getting the bug again...I was looking at 4 channel amps on eBay too. Be kinda fun to run some higher watts through there. I used to have a halfway decent system in my Impala (well, at least amps and a sub) and haven't done anything like that in the truck.
 
juicedmullet said:
radar, i think you will like the crazy awesome setup that im trying to run in my wrangler.
Click to expand...

What cha doing in it bor?

RADAR
 
jbl GENERALLY is understood as Junky-But-Loud.... that said. The infinities are the only decent component set on there. I dont have the patience to type out my reasoning but if you order a crutchfield magazine, you should be able to compare all of the specs side by side... and I know some on here love audiobahn... BUT their stuff is all looks. Most of the circuitry is crap and the amps rarely meet specified output.
 
i only liked audiobahn because of the bang for the buck. i'm only running their speakers. my car has 2 kenwood amps, a mono sub amp and a 25x4 amp. i've been pleased with both of them, except the sub amp doesn't get enough air sometimes and it will overheat in the summer. nothing that 2-70 air can't fix in a minute though. my blazer doesn't get good airflow to the back anyway unless the windows are open. i ran it pretty loud from PA to Florida last spring, and it took 19 hours before i hit the point of over heating the sub amp. as i said, i cooled it down pretty quickly by rolling down the windows.

i've heard kicker subs in the past. they were pretty decent. guy was going to sell me his box, but it was too big for the trunk of my tiny 82 prelude. i would've had to disassemble the entire car to get the box in. hell, my 85 civic had a hard time with a single 12" in the back. couldn't put the backseat up all the way. i could've built another box, but didn't care cause i never sat in the back.
 
ZKaudio said:
jbl GENERALLY is understood as Junky-But-Loud.... that said. The infinities are the only decent component set on there. I dont have the patience to type out my reasoning but if you order a crutchfield magazine, you should be able to compare all of the specs side by side... and I know some on here love audiobahn... BUT their stuff is all looks. Most of the circuitry is crap and the amps rarely meet specified output.
Click to expand...

Cool...thanks man.

Any other brands you like?
 
I love mmatts amps and components... their subs rock too. All around a great company. I hit a higher DB with 2 of their juggernaut 15's than i ever did with 6 JL 12w6's (same wattage applied)
 
which probably puts them out of my price range :(

what's going to be interesting is when i can afford to get the truck i want (tacoma extended cab) and put a system into that. i'll need to retain use of the rear jumpseats, so space will be severely limited yet i'll still want a system. wonder how that one's gonna work out.
 
There are several sets of those Infinitys for a decent price. If I could snag a couple of those for front and back, that would rock...
 
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