5x5 - i'm lost

[Buddy_Christ]

ok, i'm starting to understand this whole thing. you do a compound movement for 5x5 then 2 other exercises for 2x8-10. ok, that part i can understand. that sounds simple.

what are compound and non-compound movements? i mean, really. i don't know. all i know is i have a 3 day split that i've been running for 3 months now. i know what those exercises are, but don't know what the difference is between them.

sorry, i hate to sound so un-educated on this, but i am. also, with the 5x5, you're pretty much only working muscles once a week, right? that i don't really have a problem with.

i just need some help with this. i'm trying to set something up that i can run M T TH F, but i'm not exactly sure where to start. i've found every thread i can on 5x5, but i still don't know where to start. i understand how this all works, but putting it all together is eluding me. thanks.

Mike

 

[MikeK]

ok, i'm starting to understand this whole thing. you do a compound movement for 5x5 then 2 other exercises for 2x8-10. ok, that part i can understand. that sounds simple.

what are compound and non-compound movements? i mean, really. i don't know. all i know is i have a 3 day split that i've been running for 3 months now. i know what those exercises are, but don't know what the difference is between them.

sorry, i hate to sound so un-educated on this, but i am. also, with the 5x5, you're pretty much only working muscles once a week, right? that i don't really have a problem with.

i just need some help with this. i'm trying to set something up that i can run M T TH F, but i'm not exactly sure where to start. i've found every thread i can on 5x5, but i still don't know where to start. i understand how this all works, but putting it all together is eluding me. thanks.

Mike

The movements that you want 5x5 would be things like squats, bench, deadlifts, curls, close grip bench and such...

Why not do something like this...

M- chest
t- back/shoulders
Th-bis/tris
F- Legs

 

[needsize]

Re: Re: 5x5 - i'm lost

The movements that you want 5x5 would be things like squats, bench, deadlifts, curls, close grip bench and such...

Why not do something like this...

M- chest
t- back/shoulders
Th-bis/tris
F- Legs

took the word right out of my mouth, and thats pretty close to my training split

 

[KillahBee]

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=3128275#post3128275

 

[The Red Dragon]

Compound = involving more than 2 or more major joints, usually multiple large muscle groups
Accessory/Isolation = 1 joint

Everything I did was compound on 5x5...except for the bicep stuff

 

[Buddy_Christ]

ok, now i've got the idea of what i want my 5x5 to be. however.....

i can't do deadlifts. i'll try them once more, but my back doesn't handle being bent like that, even if i keep it straight. i'll give them a try on the smith machine, because that should keep me pretty damn straight everywhere. yeah, i've read the posts where guys say they hate dead lifts or they can't do a lot of weight with deadlifts so they stop doing them or whatever. that's not the case with me. 2 herniated discs in my thoracic. they prevent me from doing anything that involves bending with my back. body just doesn't like to bend that way anymore. yet i can handle squats no prob. i'll try deadlifts again, but even bent over barbell rows hurt me, so i dropped them from the routine.

i think i have an idea of how to split my routine up. lemme try to hash it out here and post it and maybe you guys can help me fine tune it? much appreciated!

 

[HodgeMN]

I had problems with deadlifts on my back as well intitially. I started weight training in the end of July and started at 115 for 5x5 on deads. I just hit 270 for all 5 reps of 5 this week. I started really light to get the feel for the movement and I do not have any more problems with my back - it feels better than it has in a long time. Deadlifts are now my favorite.

 

[IronandGravity]

Here's an old copy of Needsize's workout. You can see here which exercises he does for 5x5 and which for the 2x8.

Sorry about your back. I've got a serious lower back problem that keeps me from doing things like front squats and standing overhead press.

Day 1 chest/calves
Flat bench 5x5
incline dumbell press 2x8-10
incline flyes 2x8-10
standing calve raises 5x15

day 2 back/shoulders
military press 5x5
side laterals 3-5x8-10
deads 5x5
chins 2x8-10
shrugs 2x8-10
rows 2x8-10
bent over laterals 2x8-10

day 3&4 rest

day 5 bis/tris
close grip bench 5x5
standing barbell curls 5x5
weighted dips 2x8-10
incline dumbell curls 2x8-10
skull crushers 2x8-10
preacher curls 2x8-10

day 6 legs
squats 5x5
leg press or hacks 2x8-10( I dont do any more exercises for quads as I dont need to)
stiff legged deads 2x8-10
leg curls 2x8-10
seated calve raises 5x15
abs - weighted static holds

day 7 rest

 

[socal girl]

often, i like to perform only one more exercise after my 5x5 exercise. so say i do flat bench for 5x5, i might do incline db press for 2 or 3 sets (i like to get in the 6-8 rep range). 5x5 can be very effective and i don't think there is any need to push it with more than 3 sets following. the first 5 sets alone are probably enough to increase strength and cause growth.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

Does this routine work? i'm sitting here trying to think of what exercises feel like they work multiple areas, plus the few examples i've seen. i'm probably way off. the deadlifts i can try to incorporate, but i'll know by rep 2 or 3 if i can handle them or not. back problems, they blow.

Monday - Chest
Flat Bench 5x5
DB incline Bench 2x8-10
Standing Cable Fly 2x8-10
Dips 5x5 - weighted when 5x5 is easy
Close Grip Bench 5x5

Tuesday - Back/shoulders
Close Grip Pulldowns (i love these) 5x5
Regular Pulldowns 2x8-10
uh, clueless for another, maybe one arm cable rows 2x8-10
Overhead Press 5x5
Shoulder Shrug (rolling) 2x8-10
Should Shrug (straight up) 2x8-10

Thursday - Arms
Standing BB curls 5x5
Preacher Curl 2x8-10
Reverse dumbbell curls 2x8-10
Tricep extension 5x5 (behind head both hands on single dumbbell, that's how i do them)
Tricep cable pulldown, one arm 2x8-10 (that's the reverse curl motion but pulling down, dunno what else to call it)
Incline Curls 2x8-10
dunno what it's called, but it's where you take the bar with a long string attached and put some weight on the end and roll it up, superset that with wrist curls and reverse wrist curls. i'm thinking 3 sets of each for 10 reps.

Friday - Legs
Full Squats 5x5
Step-ups 2x8-10 (i use a 6" box and usually use my squat weight)
Lunges 2x8-10
Incline Leg Press 5x5
Reverse leg curls 2x8-10 (i'm weak in these, but slowly getting better)
Calf Raises 2x15-18

ABS i'll work as much as possible. i usually forget, that's the worst part. i have to really start forcing myself to do them first so i can't forget.

i'm leaving wednesday open in hopes of utilizing that time for nothing but cardio. i need more cardio and leaving one day in the middle of the week open for it would give me less excuses to not do it.

final question.....all the exercises listed in the 5x5 routine, that's all you do on each day? there's nothing else at all? thought i'd ask.

thanks for any input. greatly appreciated. please correct me where i'm wrong on any of this. i'm trying, and i think i'm on the right path. thanks!

Mike

 

[Buddy_Christ]

ah, i posted my reply, then when the page refreshed, i saw the outline of needsize's routine. i'm going to compare and i'll post back some questions, cause i'm not sure of everything on there. thanks a lot!

Mike

 

[Buddy_Christ]

i'm comparing what i outlined and needsize's workout, and there's a few things i don't know.

what are side laterals and bent over laterals? isn't that where you lift your arms from your sides up to shoulder height, keeping your elbows locked? if so, i can do the side laterals, but can't do the bent over, although i'll try it once more to make sure.

Chins meaning chinups? if so, what form - overhand, underhand, close grip?

rows - regular seated rows? close grip or wide?

what are skull crushers? does that mean i get to hurt the people i don't like? i'd enjoy that one.....

stiff legged deads really work hamstrings right? if so, i could substitute with reverse leg curls if i can't do the deads, or do both, because my hamstrings need more work.

i think i do need more quad exercises, so i'll add in regular leg curls for 2x8-10

any bonus to seated calf raises over standing? i want to do reverse calf raises, but don't seem to have the balance for it. almost fell over the last time i tried.

ok, i think that's all the questions i have right now. i was reading up on this last night and liked the part about going to 5x3 for a few weeks when 5x5 isn't obtainable anymore, then dropping back a lot of weight and starting the cycle over again.

also, use of creatine. in one of the origonal posts i read about 5x5, it said that you can add creatine when 5x5 starts to become really difficult. what's creatine going to do for me? everything i've ever been told about it says that it retains water around muscles. when you stop taking it, you lose that water, and you lose size. i was taking Nitro Tech for a month before i discovered that it was pretty much crap and that it had creatine in it. i switched over to a regular whey protein, and within a few days, i had lost some of the size i had put on. i got that size back after a few more weeks of hard work. but my point is, if it's something that i hvae to take all the time or else i'm going to lose the mass, then honestly, what's the point? someone give me actual reasons please, not what the manufacturers say about it. the manufacturers are going to tell you whatever you want to hear, i'd like to hear the real reasons. Mr.X said there's good reasons to use it, and it's up to me to use it. but that was it, and he dispelled the myth that it retains water in the heart muscles. i can google search for creatine all day, but i'm going to end up getting the manufacturer's claims on it, and i'd prefer the truth from other lifters. thanks again.

Mike

damn i ask a lot of questions, but at least i'm asking...and learning!

 

[IronandGravity]

Side laterals: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise.html

Bent-over lateral: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidPosterior/DBRearLateralRaise.html

Chins are basically pull-ups. To me though, chins are with palms facing me and pull-ups are palms facing out. It varies though.

Skull crushers: I think these are lying triceps extensions where you lower the bar to your forehead, not behind the head.

Seated calf raises work the underlying muscle, the soleus. Standing hit the gastrocnemius. So if you're serious about developing the calves you'll do both. Soleus pushes out the gast and makes the whole calf look bigger/rounder. But if you pick one do standing.

Creatine: I don't know.

 

[Buddy_Christ]

side laterals i think i can handle. bent over i might not be able to, but that's because of my back. i'll give both a shot, and see if i can do them with the cable crossover instead of dumbbells, because i know with side laterals, i can't keep perfect form with dumbbells, and that's essential.

chin-ups and pull-ups,...i can't stand either, but that's cause i've done so many of them in the Marine Corps. that was part of our physical fitness test, see how many you could do. 20 was a perfect score. sounds easy, right? not really. you couldn't kick with your feet, couldn't raise your knees above waist level, couldn't get swinging and keep moving like that. they were pure dead hang pullups, and that's the only real way to do them. full extension on the down, and chin had to break the plain of the bar. my personal best was 18. i'd start off with an overhand grip and usually crank out 10-12, then switch over to an underhand grip (had to keep holding onto the bar though, couldn't touch the ground) and finish off that way. it was good though, cause once i switched grip, i was good for at least 3 more.

can someone verify that the Skull Crushers are what IronandGravity says they are. just want to be 100% sure.

i'll do both forms of calf raises. didn't know there was a difference between them.

the Creatine....had to pick up a script, and the pharmicist let me read a little booklet he had from 99 about sports suppliments. creatine was in there, so i skimmed it over briefly. note, this booklet he had was written by independant doctors and scientists, not any company, so there's no influence on the results. it said a few positive things about it, then a few negative. in 2 studies, they encountered 2 people developing reversible kidney problems, but one had a pre-existing condition. the biggest factor in that was lack of proper hydration. now, this study was from 99, so it's a bit dated, but it said there isn't enough support for or against creatine. i got the phone number for this place and i'm going to try to give them a call on monday and see if they can send me some more recent information on all the sports suppliments they've tested and done studies on. i'm not trying to say creatine is good or bad based on what i read, but that i'm mearly trying to arm myself with as much info as i can before i make any decesion on whether i'd want to use it or not.

thanks for the help. unless anyone can verify if my proposed 5x5 is good or bad (or just needs some minor tweaking here and there) i'll probably go with the one that needsize uses. thanks again!

Mike