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50mg of prop enough for t3 cycle?
- Thread starter aroidfan
- Start date
serge
New member
aroidfan said:
20days of t-3 wont do much for you, you have to build up the dose to 100mcg/ed then back down slowly, 6week cutting cycle is optimum if you cant do that dont bother
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here is some help: (hope you are not too lazy to read through)
original is on anabolicextreme.com
THE SIMPLE MAN’S GUIDE TO DIETING PHARMACOLOGY
by The Blond Myth
Of all the obscene four letter words in the English language, "diet" ranks up there as the most despised and hated. As the weather warms, the majority of people want to get ripped up for the beach, contests, or just diet down to look decent. In pursuit of these goals, dieting becomes a necessary evil. I could care less about beaches, but contests I do care about. This article is for all of those who are uncertain about what helpful supplements and drugs to use when dieting off those excess "bulking" pounds. The who, what, when and why of ECA, T3, Clen., and DNP. This information isn't new, but if people didn’t want it, then there would be no questions about it. And there's bound to be questions as the spring and summer months approach.
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ECA
ECA stands for Ephedrine Caffeine and Aspirin in one capsule. It's the one supplement out of the list that you can get over the counter at any health food store or nutritional outlet on the net. When it comes to dieting, it's as popular for veteran bodybuilders as it is for newbies. ECA helps boost your metabolism and curb your appetite, which is very important if you are susceptible to cravings and midnight refrigerator runs. Most dosages are 2-4 capsules before breakfast, lunch, and dinner. However ECA leaves some people feeling wired and jittery, so the dinner dosage may not be needed. I don’t use ECA according to the directions on the label, and neither should you in my opinion. The label is meant for people who do not work out the way bodybuilders do. It's meant for the 9 to 5 worker who can't do cardio in the morning, or lift on a daily basis. So taking it before meals is a lot more feasible. When dieting, I take a few before my AM cardio session and then again before my PM workout session. I find this helps me in the morning to wake up and raises my temperature faster than without it. If your gym sessions are limited to one session a day, then take ECA before your training , and then once more before your afternoon meal. I take Metabolift (Made by Twinlab) 5 days on and 2 days off. Most people who constantly use ECA products get addicted to them and when they come off, they crash hard. I would only use ECA for a max time of 3 months whether cycling or not, simply to give the body a rest so that when you use it again, it’s something new to the body. The few drawbacks to ECA are feeling wired and jittery as mentioned above as well as headaches when first taking them. If you’re not used to caffeine, then in most cases it will cause headaches the first few days from the amounts contained inside the capsules. People with high blood pressure or heart problems should not take ECA products.. They also make ECA stacks without ephredrine but with norephredrine. People that have used the norephedrine products report none of the effects normally experienced when using standard ECA. As for the best legal supplements, I'd use Lipokinetix by Syntrax (which has been reviewed over and over here at AE) stacked with an ECA like Ripped Fuel, Metabolift, or Xenephredrine to combat the feeling of fatigue associated with Lipokinetix. With Lipokinetix and any ECA, start off with half the dose to test your tolerance.
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T3
No this isn't Arnold’s latest movie, but a great thyroid medication commonly used when dieting. Now, there has been a lot of hype and controversy surrounding T3 and its purported muscle wasting effects. I believe it’s just that, over exaggerated hype. T3 is great to use whether you are natural or not, you just need to use different dosages. Being natural myself, I use T3 with great success because I up my protein the whole time I'm taking it. People often over estimate the amount of protein and food they consume, which leaves them saying "Oh the T3 is why I lost muscle when I dieted." They don't consider that they ate next to nothing when dieting. A lot has also been said about T3's supposed rebound effect. If you haven't heard, it’s another false claim that when you come off T3, you gain a lot of fat. The reason people gain fat when coming off T3 is a combination of water retention and resuming their normal eating habits. Going from dieting and restricted calories to no diet and eating anything you want, your body will rebound quickly because of the influx of calories. If you keep your diet following the use of T3 for a few weeks and then gradually increase calories to your maintenance dose, then you'll be fine. One true statement about T3 is that it does suppress the thyroid when using it. No matter what dosage used, it will still be suppressed. The max time to be on T3 is 6-8 weeks. I know others advocate more, but I'd rather be safe and have a working thyroid after my cycle. Most people use a diamond pattern when using T3. A diamond pattern is where dosages start low, gradually go up, and then go back down to the original dosage. A typical diamond cycle would be:
WEEK 1 =50mcg
WEEK 2 =100mcg
WEEK 3 =150mcg
WEEK 4 =150mcg
WEEK 5 =100mcg
WEEK 6 =50mcg
The above would be ideal for 1) AS users first time using T3 2) Advanced natural knowing the ropes of T3 in and out.
If I were a natural newbie to T3 OR a woman user, dosages would be somewhere along the lines of:
WEEK 1= 25mcg
WEEK 2= 50mcg
WEEK 3= 75mcg
WEEK 4= 50mcg
WEEK 5= 25mcg
Notice how thus pattern is shorter than normal and the dosages are cut in half. Once again, that’s meant for a novice or a woman. In either case, they should be using this cycle in order to evaluate the effects of T3 on their bodies.
Some advanced T3 and AS users could up the dosages as high as 200-250mcg's during a "cutting" cycle. T3 is a great tool when dieting. If you can get over the unsubstantiated hype, figure out what dosages you need, and don’t abuse it, you'll be fine. One side note, when using T3, I noticed a difference between using Mexican brand Cynomel and SBC's Cytomel. SBC's allows me to use it without losing any strength at all while the Mexican version left me feeling very weak and tired.
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CLENBUTEROL
Clenbuterol is a misunderstood drug at best. Some say it promotes muscle growth and can be used for long periods of time without downgrading, while others use it lose body fat for short periods of time. The latter method is the truth. Clen is better than ECA at fat burning but is less effective than T3. It is primarily used in a 2 week on, 2 week off method. Dosages of the drug range anywhere from 60mcg to 180mcg a day. As you use it, your body will adapt, thus needing higher dosages. Starting off at 60mcg and working your way up to ED or EOD till you reach 180mcg would be the best option available. You could also pyramid your dosages throughout the 14 days in a manner similar to T3.
Dan Duchaine also said that Clen became less and less effective after the first time using it. This could come into play if you feel the need to rely on it again and again. The following suggested dosing schedule avoids a potential crash when coming off:
DAY 1: 60mcg
DAY 2: 80mcg
DAY 3: 100mcg
DAY 4: 120mcg
DAY 5: 140mcg
DAY 6: 160mcg
DAY 7: 180mcg
DAY 8: 180mcg
DAY 9: 160mcg
DAY 10: 140mcg
DAY 11: 120mcg
DAY 12: 100mcg
DAY 13: 80mcg
DAY 14: 60mcg
This gives the body time to hit its high point then taper it back down before your final day of use. A lot of people use Clen and expect it to be a miracle diet aid when it's really not that much more powerful than ECA. The results of Clen will depend more on your diet then the drug itself. A side note to mention about Clen: some people experience headaches, jitters, and possible heart problems (i.e. increased heart rate) when using this drug much like they do with ECA. All dosages should be tailored to how much you can handle and not how much the body can use.
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DNP
"If you don’t know where to find DNP then you shouldn't be using it"-Jay Meuller
DNP is my favorite dieting aid out of these 4 because it’s so deadly and you can’t fuck around with it. DNP was originally used and still used for different things such as TNT, rat Poison and a host of other similarly dangerous items. DNP is the single most effective way to lose body fat in the fastest period of time. So, why don’t people use it more often? 1) It’s hard to get and 2) The possible negatives far outweigh the positives. The way DNP makes you feel is the number one reason people hate it or won't use it. Non-stop sweating, fatigue, and lack of energy make it near impossible to carry on normal daily activities. Working out becomes a horrible experience and your body constantly craves carbs. However, there is an upside to it. If you take a safe dosage such as 400-600mg's in a 2 on, 1 off fashion, it is manageable for periods of up to a month. Using DNP puts a huge amount of pressure on the kidneys and liver, thus making Milk Thistle a supplement to use. When on DNP, all bodily functions become yellow. Everyday functions such as pissing, Cumming, and sweating leave stains of yellow and have the same tint to them when leaving the body. Water is a must asset to have to keep the body hydrated throughout the day. Vitamin C should also be used at 1000-2000mg day to combat the possible blurriness that occurs from DNP. I have heard of glycerol being used but I don't use it myself. A normal cycle would be 3-4 weeks long with a 2on 1off schedule. 400mg the first day and possibly 600mg the second. Because DNP doesn't kick in for up to 36hrs, some people will overdose thinking its not working. That is the wrong move to make and could prove deadly. After taking the first 400mg, see how you feel the day after. If you know that you’re ok and could go higher, do so. Pure DNP at 400mg's is more than most people can handle, so for most, upping the dosage is not required.
If your not making DNP yourself, you better trust your supplier because he is playing with your life by dosing the capsules. If he or she OD's the capsules and puts 400mg instead of 200 and you take 2, that’s 800mg's of DNP in you. Can you say Emergency Room? I can't stress enough the importance of knowing exactly how much DNP you are taking. This is not something to be taken lightly and as I stated, before it’s important to get it right the first time because there are no second chances with this drug.
There are two times I'd use DNP. One is to cut down to low single bf% and the other is when fat loss comes to a stand still. Some people use it to kick start their diet, but to me that’s a waste because when people first start to diet, the fat comes off quickly. After that it becomes harder and harder to lose fat without sacrificing hard earned muscle. This is where DNP comes in handy. Another side note about DNP is that it causes severe water retention. When people use it, they think its not working and immediately start to eat like normal post cycle. The problem is, it takes up to a week to see the full results of DNP. Once the water is gone, you can see how you have faired. Don't be upset if it looks like nothing is working when it really is. You can speed up the process by drinking a lot of water the week after your last dose then dehydrating for a night till the next morning. How you look that morning will be a good indication of how your cycle went.
None of these diet aids will be worth a damn if you don't watch your diet and do cardio. Diet is the key to bodybuilding. If you ask anyone with half a clue, what’s more important, diet or lifting? They will answer diet. Unless, that is if you ask the guy in your gym who is "always bulking" and doesn’t believe in dieting. The diet I'd recommend would be a high protein and low to moderate carb diet depending on your body type and knowledge of your own body. A general rule of thumb I use when dieting is at least 2g's of protein per pound of bodyweight. For a 200 pound person, that would amount to 400g spread equally throughout the day. As for carbs, I take in under 50g's a day. If you are carb sensitive like me, I'd keep them to a minimum and replace them with more protein, good fats, and fibrous vegetables. Broccoli and salads are great stomach fillers rather and do not provide the body with much in the way of energy.
As for cardio, the best two times to do it are on an empty stomach as soon as you wake up, or post workout. If you can't do one, do the other. The duration of cardio sessions will depend on how much fat you need to lose, so use your own guesstimate. A sample would be starting off at an hour a day, 40 minutes empty stomach and then 20 post lifting. After a month, add more time if you need to. Your body will get used to certain time schemes of cardio quickly, so cycling cardio would be a good idea. (Note: People disagree with me on the cardio issue more times than they agree. But this is what works for me and a majority of other endo-mesomorphs out there.)
The following would be a great stack for dieting down over a 12 week period. It utilizes all the diet aids without going to extremes. Adjust the dosages to your needs.
WEEK 1- ECA / T3 50mcg
WEEK 2- ECA / T3 100mcg
WEEK 3- ECA / T3 150mcg
WEEK 4- ECA / T3 100mcg
WEEK 5- ECA / T3 50mcg
WEEK 6- ECA / DNP
WEEK 7- ECA / DNP
WEEK 8- ECA / DNP
WEEK 9- ECA / DNP
WEEK 10-ECA / CLEN
WEEK 11- ECA / CLEN
WEEK 12- Clean
The DNP would be used in a 400-600-Off-400-600-Off-Off period throughout the week. Basically use it Mon/Tues/Thurs/Fri. The T3 and ECA would be used in a 6 days on/1off schedule. The reason I run the ECA all the way through is because of the fatigue DNP causes. The switch from T3 to DNP will cause some water retention because T3 helps clear out water while DNP holds it. DNP is used after T3 so that possible weight gains are kept in check. A lot of people state that fat loss slows or even grinds to a halt after 6 weeks of dieting, so the inclusion of DNP at this point could offset this premature slowdown. Clen is used at the end for 2 weeks to help clear out all water retention and help any fat burning that needs to be done. Since Clen is mostly used for periods of only 2 weeks before it loses its effectiveness, we'll only use it then. I would take Milk Thistle and Vitamin C starting at Week 1 and run it all the way through till Week 11. Some other supplements to consider while using this type of stack would be glutamine and creatine. Both are well known for their muscle sparing advantages when dieting.. A good mutli-vitamin for insurance could help add nutrients otherwise missing since the choices of food on a diet are pretty limited. I would schedule a cheat day or carb up day at the end of the 4th and 8th week for sanity and to give your body a shock. For timing of the dosages, I would try and use ECA before workouts, the T3 in between meals and the DNP with meals itself. The timing to use Clen. would be your choice.
In closing, the reason for this article was to put a few myths to bed, and I don't mean Blond ones. I hope that is has also answered some of the questions we see on the board and hear in the gym involving DNP, T3 for men and women, and so on. I hope this gives you a basic, easy to read review of the dieting aids you can use to attain that competition physique or beach body you want before summer gets here too quickly.
