5 X 5 program template up for review

[JohnnyCoho]

Just finished our second time through the HST routine and now were gonna start the 5 X 5. Alomost looks to the eye like over training about to happen, looking forward to hearing from some experienced in the 5 X 5 already. The following is the routine we've put together;
(Too much or what would you add or replace)

Day 1: Chest / Calves
Flat Bench 5 X 5
Incline Press 2 X 8 - 10
Incline Flyes 2 X 8 - 10
Standing Calf Raises 5 X 15

Day 2: Back / Shoulders
Military Press 5 X 5
Side Lats 3 X 8 - 10
Deads 5 X 5
Chins 2 X 8 - 10 (wide & narrow Grip)
Shrugs 2 X 8 - 10
Rows Wide Grip 2 X 8 - 10
Rows Narrow Grip 2 X 8 - 10

Day 3: Bis / Tris
Tri Rope Pushdowns 5 X 5
Standing Camber Bar Curls 5 X 5
Weighted Tri Dips 2 X 8 - 10
Incline Seated DB Curls 2 X 8 - 10
Skull Crushers 2 X 8 - 10
Preacher Curls 2 X 8 - 10
Wrist Curls 2 X 8 - 10

Day 4: Legs / Abs
Squats 5 X 5
Leg Press or Hacks 2 X 8 -10
SL Deads 2 X 8 - 10
Leg Curls 2 X 8 - 10
Seated Calf Raises 5 X 15
Weighted Ab Crunches 2 X 15 - 20
Weighted Static Holds 2 X 15 - 20
Hay Bailers 2 X 15 - 20

Currently on an off season diet of 4196 calories a day;
Totals = 302 Gr Carbs / 540 gr Protein / 92 gr fat
Calories = 1208 Carbs / 2160 Protein / 828 Fat
Plus 2 Gallons of Water per day

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Oh, finished a second HST cycle? Man, sorry to go off your topic but could you please PM me or make a post about your results? I'm on my first HST cycle now and would love to hear what it did for you this time around. I remember it being pretty wicked to you the first time - good gains and bodyfat loss! If you wouldn't mind, include measurements before and after, weight before and after, when you made your best gains, what your diet was like...

Much Karma if I can give. Thanks a lot man.

As for the 5x5, only do 2x8-10 with rows once. No need for wide and narrow grip.

That's all I can critique. The rest looks good. I used to love 5x5, but I never stuck with it long enough. I got burnt out quick and didn't enjoy the long rest times between sets. Anyway, diet looks great. You seem set man.

 

[callthedoctor]

Day 2 looks tough....

I do a 4 day split with my 5x5.....as follows...

Chest/Tri's (Bench 5x5)
Back/Bi's (DL 5x5)
Shoulders/Calves (BNP 5x5)
Legs (Squat 5x5)

Kinda do abs whenever I have poop left at the end of a workout...(probably why I'm still carrying the spare tire... My shoulder day is almost a semi-rest day...compared to the other workouts....

 

[biondo]

i have a lower back problem and have to be careful with some excercice (deadlifts and squat especially).
what alternative excercices would u suggest for back and legs?
thanks

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Rows wouldn't be too good on the back, in the case. Deadlifts usually help fix the problem, from what I've heard. They strengthen the muscles of the back and will make you able to support your injury or problem better. Not positive on that though, so be careful.

Leg presses for legs. Leg curls and leg extensions too.
For the back you can do chinups (wide and narrow grip) and shrugs.

 

[Synpax]

Hey,

I think your split is messed up.
Chest/Tri
back/Bi
Shoulder/Legs

Also, drop the military press for db shoulder press.
Tri pushdowns are a lousy, lousy 5x5 exercise for tri. Shift them to a 2x10 position and go with dips (weighted, assisted, whatever). If you insist on keeping your chest and tri days seperate, go with a close grip flat bench, but I think dips are a better exercise.
You are also missing a 2x10 for shoulders.

Make the calve work 5x5 and use more weight.

How much do you weigh? I think you may be getting too much protein and not enough carbs. You are not in ketosis here at all.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Tom T., Will get back to you on HST results here later today with a dif thread. Not as good second time around as first for us. Saw our biggest gains first time through. Lactic fluxes second time around in the 15's were certainly more apparent though. Also Tom, we love doin rows both wide & narrow grip. If yer no doin them in yer HST program yer missin out. Back mass is way up!

Biondo, I have been riddled with back problems. L1, L2, L3, herniated & L4 torn. T1, T2, & T3 slight herniations. Its a degenerative thing and most injuries from wrestling. Doc told me to stay away from Deads & Squats. Now he's eating his words and tells me to just keep doing what I'm doing. Start light and concentrate on perfect form. Your back will feel awesome afterwords...Just make sure ya listen to the signals its sending you. It'll let ya know whats good and what isnt. My Squats still arent where I want them yet, but squat for what my back says. Squats were 250 and Deads were 405 in the last of my 5's in the HST program, both Raw.

THANKS SYNPAX!! Thats what I was looking for !! Just jotted the program down on a piece of paper yesterday with my BB Partner. Agree totally on DB Shoulder Press vs Military (dunno' what we were thinkin' there) We do love weighted dips also and were wondering what we were doing there too. Put weighted Tri dips under Tri / Bi day but we were already misssing our weighted dips for chest day. (liked puttin them together) As far as Calves go, we like the high reps & get killer results from them. Will go with 5 X 5 on standing calf raises, but we still want to do calves on two days. Putting up revised 5 X 5 for further critique.
Diet was put together for me by another Pro Body Builder that trained under Anthony Aponte. I am 6' 3" 35 yrs old and currently weigh 212 with 12% BF.

Day 1: Chest / Tri / Calves
Slight incline Bench 5 X 5
Incline DB Press 2 X 8 - 10
Incline Flyes 2 X 8 - 10
Weighted Dips 2 X 8 - 10
Tri Weighted Dips ( arms behind ) 5 X 5
Tri rope pushdowns 2 X 8 - 10
Skull Crushers 2 X 8 - 10
Standing Calf Raises 5 X 5

Day 2: Back / Bis / Forearms
Deads 5 X 5
Chins (weighted) 2 X 8 -10 (Wide & Narrow Grip)
Wide Grip Rows 2 X 8 - 10
Narrow Grip Rows 2 X 8 - 10
Shrugs 2 X 8 - 10
Standing Camber Bar Curls 5 X 5
Incline Seated DB Curls 2 X 8 - 10
Preacher Curls 2 X 8 - 10
Wrist Curls 2 X 8 - 10

Day 3: Legs / Shoulders / Abs
Squats 5 X 5
Leg Press or Hacks 2 X 8 -10
SL Deads 2 X 8 - 10
Leg Curls 2 X 8 - 10
Seated Calf Raises 5 X 15
Seated DB Press 5 X 5
Side Lats 3 X 8 - 10
Rear Delt DB flyes 2 X 8 - 10
Weighted Ab Crunches 2 X 15 - 20
Weighted Static Holds 2 X 15 - 20
Hay Bailers 2 X 15 - 20

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Better off with a 4-day split for a 5x5 routine. That's a lot of volume on day 3. You had a 2x8 for shoulders - lateral raises. I don't know what Syn was talking about.

I'd keep the heel raises as 5x15, man. Calves can take a lot of abuse. Better with higher reps, you can still use a lot of weight with 15 reps on those mothers.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't do chest/tris and back/bis on the same day. I like to give arms their own day on the 5x5 routine, while supersetting tri/bi work, alternating. It works very nicely, gives a great pump, and makes it fresh every time I go into the gym...or my basement.

It's your call, but those are my recommendations.

If you're still planning to do wide and narrow grip row, why not do 1x8-10 of narrow, and 1x8-10 wide? You're using a hell of a lot of volume already.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Would still like to here some more opinions on the program,..we start it up on Monday.

Tom,..not all that much volume for what we're used to doing and on many occasions will split the workout into an AM / PM spit depending on our schedules at the time.

Were still keepin the rows as they are, as we get a lot outta them.

 

[supersizeme]

the only problem i see what that first program is that your 5x5 exercise for triceps should not be rope pushdowns. that's one of the dinkier tricep exercises. go with either close grip bench or weighted dips.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

HAHAHAHAHAHA THANKS SUPERSIZEME!! LOVE YER AVATAR,...FARKIN HILARIOUS!!!

Thats the kinda answer I was lookin for!! I was tryin to get a hold of a few BB pros I know but they've all been down in Vegas and no-ones been able to get back to me.

After doing research on all the past 5 X 5 threads I was kinda thrown off by Synpax's post, although it does sound good and intriguing and may have to try it sometime. May try and start my own training journal with the revised program after we start it.

Also for Spatts,..the 5 X 5 archived Q&A thread link is not working,..can it be up-dated again?