Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below 
big_bad_buff
New member
my heart is getting a workout....WOOOT WOOOT!!!!!
4 ephedrine
- Thread starter big_bad_buff
- Start date
What`s that? is it new?
I loved the ECA but just ran out. Now I`m with the NYC`s. Is it different from the regular Eph?
I loved the ECA but just ran out. Now I`m with the NYC`s. Is it different from the regular Eph?
big_bad_buff
New member
bottle is called mini two-way action. the tabs are the strongest since ephedrine hydrochloride is slightly stronger than the ephedrine sulfate in Bronkaid & Primatene. it has 25mg of ephedrine/Ephedra in each pill along with 200 guaifensesin. good stuff
Guaifenesin sucks a big ass.
Pumpuii Canada sells 8mg Ephedrine HCL tablets in a 300 count bottle. You can get em shipped to the US, customs will open em, note the bottle count, then seal it up. Dont order more than 3 bottles a month or they'll be like "big bad buff, where the meth lab at bwoy?!"
Pumpuii Canada sells 8mg Ephedrine HCL tablets in a 300 count bottle. You can get em shipped to the US, customs will open em, note the bottle count, then seal it up. Dont order more than 3 bottles a month or they'll be like "big bad buff, where the meth lab at bwoy?!"
DeepZenPill
New member
I got vasopro 25mg. Stuff is so much stronger than any ephedra product I've ever used. Unfortunately this means I get headaches easy as hell from the shit.
BeefyBull said:
They ran out. bastards
Which one is it? I found both of these at the same site. The third one had the guef.. stuff, which I don`t want I guess.
Ephedrine HCL or Ephedrine Sulphate?
Ephedrine HCL or Ephedrine Sulphate?
big_bad_buff
New member
Actually I used to go way over board. Like 4 or 5 years ago me and my buddies would pop like 6 or 7, then an hour later take 4 or 5 more, then start drinking lol…..but yeah, there is no point in taking any more than 3 or 4 at a time
PatsFan34 said:
big_bad_buff
New member
maybe they have weak hearts or something, because when I was younger I did roofing for a summer in missouri, and it got up to like 115 degrees up there, and we would be poppin them all day long.
PatsFan34 said:
Ephedrine HCL rocks!I remember back in the day,AST research came out with the original "Dymetadrine 25",which was pure ephedrine HCL.A couple of those bad boys a half hour before training and your strength would jump up by about 10 percent,and you would be a madman in the gym.Awesome shit.
PatsFan34 said:
Only if they're out of shape, show up to training camp 30lbs overweight, have pre-existing heart/high BP conditions, etc. The average healthy lifting male could probably get away with taking up to 80-120mg of Ephedrine a day if they didnt have any heart problems.
Last edited:
Russian KGB
New member
Ephedrine=legal speed
Will cause yourself some serious heart problems. There were people that died from Red Bull. Things like that may make you feel better at the moment, but destroy your health in a long run. Stay clear from Ephedrine!
big_bad_buff said:
Will cause yourself some serious heart problems. There were people that died from Red Bull. Things like that may make you feel better at the moment, but destroy your health in a long run. Stay clear from Ephedrine!
javaguru
Banned
What's funny is that the media has convinced all these people that ephedrine will kill you when the relative number of adverse reactions/deaths is tiny in comparison to other OTC items. Let's take a 10 second look at Tylenol,
A study found tylenol to be the number one cause of liver failure in the United States, ahead of alcohol. There are approximately 70,000 cases of acetaminophen toxicity reported each year. A December 1994 study in the New England Journal of Medicine found that a daily tablet of acetaminophen for a year or 1,000 pills over a lifetime doubled the odds of kidney failure.
Let's look at the safety of prescription drugs,
A recent study in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) found that in one year over two million hospitalized patients suffered serious drug reactions, resulting in 106,000 deaths. People in a hospital setting receiving drugs from trained professionals under supervision resulted in 106,000 deaths from adverse drug reactions.
Now Ephedrine,
Ephedrine is a widely sold, over-the-counter medication for bronchodilation at doses of up to 25 mg every four hours, not to exceed 150 mg per day for adults and children over the age of 12. There are no limitations on the length of time these ephedrine products can be used.
More than 20 publications describe the effects of ephedrine in over 500 subjects given doses of 60 mg to 150 mg per day, for periods of up to 26 months, usually taken together with caffeine. Ephedrine, whether alone or in combination with caffeine, did not cause increases in blood pressure or heart rate. No clinically significant side effects were seen in these studies
Since 1994, the FDA has collected reports of over 100 deaths among ephedra users. An OTC drug/supplement self administered by lay people accounts for approximately 100 reported deaths in almost ten years. Twenty seperate studies have found it to be safe? An independent review of 600 AER's over the same period found that those reporting adverse reactions generally had a pre-existing condition or external contributing factors.
Is there another reason for the propaganda campaign?
A study found tylenol to be the number one cause of liver failure in the United States, ahead of alcohol. There are approximately 70,000 cases of acetaminophen toxicity reported each year. A December 1994 study in the New England Journal of Medicine found that a daily tablet of acetaminophen for a year or 1,000 pills over a lifetime doubled the odds of kidney failure.
Let's look at the safety of prescription drugs,
A recent study in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) found that in one year over two million hospitalized patients suffered serious drug reactions, resulting in 106,000 deaths. People in a hospital setting receiving drugs from trained professionals under supervision resulted in 106,000 deaths from adverse drug reactions.
Now Ephedrine,
Ephedrine is a widely sold, over-the-counter medication for bronchodilation at doses of up to 25 mg every four hours, not to exceed 150 mg per day for adults and children over the age of 12. There are no limitations on the length of time these ephedrine products can be used.
More than 20 publications describe the effects of ephedrine in over 500 subjects given doses of 60 mg to 150 mg per day, for periods of up to 26 months, usually taken together with caffeine. Ephedrine, whether alone or in combination with caffeine, did not cause increases in blood pressure or heart rate. No clinically significant side effects were seen in these studies
Since 1994, the FDA has collected reports of over 100 deaths among ephedra users. An OTC drug/supplement self administered by lay people accounts for approximately 100 reported deaths in almost ten years. Twenty seperate studies have found it to be safe? An independent review of 600 AER's over the same period found that those reporting adverse reactions generally had a pre-existing condition or external contributing factors.
Is there another reason for the propaganda campaign?
Tony104104
New member
Dymetadrine 25 was the best i've ever taken...Damn i miss it
Lumberg
New member
JavaGuru said:
These numbers are useless unless related to each other.
So there are 70,000 cases of acetamenophen toxicity. How many people take acetamenophen every day? How many people die from the toxicity?
There have been over 100 deaths from Ehedrine. How many cases of "Ephedrine toxicity?" How many people take Ephedrine every day?
To conclude,
And your point is?
javaguru
Banned
My point is in the first sentence of my post. A propaganda campaign is being used to remove a product from the market that causes a miniscule number of deaths per year in the grand scheme.
It's impossible to get exact sales figure but estimates have placed the sales of ephedrine/ephedra containing products at 2-3 billion doses a year resulting in around 100 deaths over slightly less than a ten year period.
Estimates place sales of acetaminophen at 6-8 billion dosage units per year resulting in an average of 458 deaths per year.
Acetaminophen is considered a very safe drug by the medical establishment and ephedra is much safer.
big_bad_buff
New member
it will be a controlled by the pharmacies soon enough
javaguru
Banned
But not scheduled.....for research purposes only perhaps. 
Of course at 250lbs and 12% BF at 5'10" I'm obese so I could get a prescription and then get my insurance company to pay for it once obesity gets classified as a disease. Maybe removing it from the market isn't such a bad idea.....
Of course at 250lbs and 12% BF at 5'10" I'm obese so I could get a prescription and then get my insurance company to pay for it once obesity gets classified as a disease. Maybe removing it from the market isn't such a bad idea.....
Lumberg
New member
JavaGuru said:
Now that's more like it!
Now there are other factors for which you still have to control.
For example peoples' perception of the relative danger of the two drugs, the fact that you can "feel" the effects of ephedra but not acetamenophen. How many of those 458/10 deaths per year are suicide attampts?
Overall I do not agree or disagree with you on the issue of whether ephedrine is safe. Just with your original argument.
Finally, why do you think are ephedrine-related complications/deaths are so much more visible than those caused by acetamenophen?
javaguru
Banned
I've never seen data on ephedrine deaths and suicide and only one reference on acetaminophen listing it at 10%.
I believe the media and medical community are primarily responsible for the public perception of ephedrine. Media stories tend to focus on ephedrine as the cause of death regardless of other factors which are often completely excluded. Not to mention coaches would rather blame ephedrine for a players death than the fact they had a reckless disregard for the safety of their players. Was it the 50 mg of ephedra that caused the players heat stroke or the fact they intensely conditioned a non-conditioned athlete in 90 degree weather who was underfed, dehydrated and had a history of heart conditions and previous heat injuries?
The medical community is very familiar with Tylenol and has been recommending it for minor aches and pains for decades. They have been conditioned as to its safety. For whatever reason physicians and pharmacists seem to universally urge people to stop taking ephedrine because of the "dangers and side effects", a position the data doesn't support. Every news story seems to have one of these physicians being interviewed while an ephedrine lobbyist who has less "trust factor" is generally interviewed for the pro safety position.
descanting
New member
Personnally I take Ephedrine HCL. One about 45 min before workout and a little bit of coffee on my way to the gym. I use this for days I need to wake up. Here's a good little part on www.hsibaltimore.com.
Contributing Editor: Health Sciences Institute e-Alert, 3/6/2003
Choose Your Poison
The current debate over the safety of ephedra is no longer a debate - it's turned into the sort of emotional, high-pitched squabbling that makes you want to blast a whistle and ask everyone to calm down, take a deep breath, stand back, and look at the realities behind the myths.
Because when you expose the myths behind this debate, it becomes almost no debate at all.
The infamous "100"
Believe me, what you're about to read, you won't find in your local newspaper, or on network TV. They're so busy putting up packaged sound bites from the medical mainstream (with all the familiar acronyms: FDA, HHS, AMA) that they don't have time to outline the finer points that contain the truth of the ephedra debate.
MYTH: More than 100 deaths have been attributed to ephedra usage.
FACT: The statistics on ephedra-related deaths don't hold up.
The FDA received more than 800 adverse event reports concerning ephedra between 1993 and 1997. Included in the reports: a man who was taking ephedra died of a gunshot wound; a woman who had been taking ephedra died in a car accident; a man who had been taking ephedra died of environmental hyperthermia; and so on. To say the least, it's quite a stretch to blame these untimely deaths on the completely incidental fact that the victims were using ephedra. I imagine all of those people were wearing shoes too, but I doubt anyone blamed shoes for their deaths.
In the current issue of HSI Panelist Jon Barron's Baseline of Health Newsletter, Jon writes, "The case against ephedra is based on statistical nonsense." Jon points out that in the studies examining groups of subjects who used ephedra products against groups of subjects who did not, there was no statistical difference in the rate of strokes or heart attacks.
Cascade of events
MYTH: Ephedra killed Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler.
FACT: Several different factors led to Bechler's death. Ephedra was not one of them.
A bottle of Xenadrine RFA-1, a weight-loss supplement containing ephedrine (NOT ephedra, but a boosted component of the herb ephedra) was found in Bechler's locker. A teammate reported that Bechler had taken three capsules of Xenadrine on the morning of his death (not yet confirmed by the medical examiner's toxicology report which has yet to be completed). According to instructions on the Xenadrine label, three capsules are to be taken throughout the day, not all at once.
One week after his death, three doctors at the Baylor University Center for Exercise, Nutrition and Preventive Health Research released a special report listing the dangerous factors that contributed to Steve Bechler's death:
* A prior history of heart illness
* A family history of death due to heatstroke
* A history of liver problems and high blood pressure
* Bechler had reported to spring training camp several pounds overweight (and was highly motivated to lose the weight in order to win a spot in the Orioles pitching rotation)
* Bechler was wearing several layers of clothing during workouts in an apparent attempt to help his weight-loss regimen
* Bechler may have not yet been acclimatized to the heat and humidity of South Florida (spring training had just begun the week he died)
* Bechler had eaten no solid food for as much as two days before his death
* When Bechler collapsed on the field, his core temperature was 106 degrees
Dr. Joshua Perper, the Broward County (Fla.) Medical Examiner, stated that the Xenadrine label clearly states that those with heart problems, hypertension or liver problems should not take the supplement. So if Steve Bechler had followed the manufacturers guidelines, he would never have taken ephedrine at all.
If for some reason I choose to drink gasoline and I were to die from it, would the FDA ban the sale of gasoline? And should my family sue Exxon? No. Because I was using the product in a way it was not intended to be used. And that's exactly what happened here - and in the majority of other cases where ephedrine is seen as the "killer." Ephedrine is not intended to be used in these doses by people with certain health conditions.
Looking the other way
MYTH: The FDA bans food or drug products that are dangerous.
FACT: The arbitrary nature of FDA bans defies logic.
Aspartame is perhaps the most notoriously harmful food additive. Better known by its brand names - Equal and Nutra-sweet - aspartame has been shown to either mimic or worsen diseases such as Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's, arthritis, lupus, fibromyalgia, and depression. In short - it's FDA approved poison.
The FDA maintains an Adverse Reaction Monitoring System (ARMS) to track complaints about the unpleasant side effects of drugs, supplements and food additives. Reports of health problems resulting from an intake of aspartame make up approximately 75 percent of the total complaints received. In 1994 the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) released a list of 61 reported adverse reactions to aspartame, including: chest pains, asthma, arthritis, migraine headaches, insomnia, seizures, tremors, vertigo, and weight gain.
So has either the FDA or HHS called for a ban of aspartame? No. Has either of the agencies even called for a warning label? No. In fact, the FDA has resisted efforts to establish a warning label for aspartame, stating (completely contrary to all the evidence) that the complaints against the sweetener aren't sufficient enough to warrant such a label!
And have you heard the media calling for us to immediately remove every (heavily advertised) diet soft drink from our grocery store shelves to protect the public from the awful risk? After all, we're supposed to drink that "just for the taste of it." So to quote HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, "Why would anybody take the risk?"
Witch hunt mentality
The current ephedra situation reminds me of a similar controversy involving l-tryptophan, a dietary supplement, used as a natural alternative to pharmaceutical sleeping medications. In 1989 there was a sudden rash of serious allergic reactions to l-tryptophan that resulted in 38 deaths. The problem was tracked down to a manufacturing short cut taken by one Japanese producer that had introduced a contaminant they didn't know about. L-tryptophan had been used for years without difficulty. But all it took was one bad batch. The FDA banned supplements of l-tryptophan in 1990.
When herbal formulations or dietary supplements begin to be perceived as dangerous, the medical mainstream moves quickly to demonize them - and by association, they demonize the supplement industry. This time, the demonizing process is gaining momentum daily. Congressmen and other government representatives see what appears to be a no-brainer issue and rush to publicly condemn the killer ephedra, many of them apparently unaware that ephedra is a far cry from ephedrine. Even the liberal lobby organization Public Citizen has threatened to sue the FDA to force a ban on ephedra.
It's quite amazing to see Public Citizen demanding that the government intervene to block everyone's access to an effective and useful herb (that has probably saved many more lives than it is accused of ending) in order to protect a few people who choose not to use it properly.
Meanwhile, no one seems to notice that this process is steadily legislating ourselves away from the freedom to make our own healthcare choices. Let your representatives in Congress know how you feel about this issue by sending them an e-mail. You can easily find e-mail addresses for congressmen and other government officials at a web site called Congress.org. If you prefer to write the old-fashioned way, you can find the appropriate mailing addresses at the same site.
And I hope you'll share this information with your friends and family too. Let them know that the information they've been hearing about ephedra in the mainstream press is not only short on reality, it's also a threat to our right to choose.
Contributing Editor: Health Sciences Institute e-Alert, 3/6/2003
Choose Your Poison
The current debate over the safety of ephedra is no longer a debate - it's turned into the sort of emotional, high-pitched squabbling that makes you want to blast a whistle and ask everyone to calm down, take a deep breath, stand back, and look at the realities behind the myths.
Because when you expose the myths behind this debate, it becomes almost no debate at all.
The infamous "100"
Believe me, what you're about to read, you won't find in your local newspaper, or on network TV. They're so busy putting up packaged sound bites from the medical mainstream (with all the familiar acronyms: FDA, HHS, AMA) that they don't have time to outline the finer points that contain the truth of the ephedra debate.
MYTH: More than 100 deaths have been attributed to ephedra usage.
FACT: The statistics on ephedra-related deaths don't hold up.
The FDA received more than 800 adverse event reports concerning ephedra between 1993 and 1997. Included in the reports: a man who was taking ephedra died of a gunshot wound; a woman who had been taking ephedra died in a car accident; a man who had been taking ephedra died of environmental hyperthermia; and so on. To say the least, it's quite a stretch to blame these untimely deaths on the completely incidental fact that the victims were using ephedra. I imagine all of those people were wearing shoes too, but I doubt anyone blamed shoes for their deaths.
In the current issue of HSI Panelist Jon Barron's Baseline of Health Newsletter, Jon writes, "The case against ephedra is based on statistical nonsense." Jon points out that in the studies examining groups of subjects who used ephedra products against groups of subjects who did not, there was no statistical difference in the rate of strokes or heart attacks.
Cascade of events
MYTH: Ephedra killed Baltimore Orioles pitcher Steve Bechler.
FACT: Several different factors led to Bechler's death. Ephedra was not one of them.
A bottle of Xenadrine RFA-1, a weight-loss supplement containing ephedrine (NOT ephedra, but a boosted component of the herb ephedra) was found in Bechler's locker. A teammate reported that Bechler had taken three capsules of Xenadrine on the morning of his death (not yet confirmed by the medical examiner's toxicology report which has yet to be completed). According to instructions on the Xenadrine label, three capsules are to be taken throughout the day, not all at once.
One week after his death, three doctors at the Baylor University Center for Exercise, Nutrition and Preventive Health Research released a special report listing the dangerous factors that contributed to Steve Bechler's death:
* A prior history of heart illness
* A family history of death due to heatstroke
* A history of liver problems and high blood pressure
* Bechler had reported to spring training camp several pounds overweight (and was highly motivated to lose the weight in order to win a spot in the Orioles pitching rotation)
* Bechler was wearing several layers of clothing during workouts in an apparent attempt to help his weight-loss regimen
* Bechler may have not yet been acclimatized to the heat and humidity of South Florida (spring training had just begun the week he died)
* Bechler had eaten no solid food for as much as two days before his death
* When Bechler collapsed on the field, his core temperature was 106 degrees
Dr. Joshua Perper, the Broward County (Fla.) Medical Examiner, stated that the Xenadrine label clearly states that those with heart problems, hypertension or liver problems should not take the supplement. So if Steve Bechler had followed the manufacturers guidelines, he would never have taken ephedrine at all.
If for some reason I choose to drink gasoline and I were to die from it, would the FDA ban the sale of gasoline? And should my family sue Exxon? No. Because I was using the product in a way it was not intended to be used. And that's exactly what happened here - and in the majority of other cases where ephedrine is seen as the "killer." Ephedrine is not intended to be used in these doses by people with certain health conditions.
Looking the other way
MYTH: The FDA bans food or drug products that are dangerous.
FACT: The arbitrary nature of FDA bans defies logic.
Aspartame is perhaps the most notoriously harmful food additive. Better known by its brand names - Equal and Nutra-sweet - aspartame has been shown to either mimic or worsen diseases such as Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's, arthritis, lupus, fibromyalgia, and depression. In short - it's FDA approved poison.
The FDA maintains an Adverse Reaction Monitoring System (ARMS) to track complaints about the unpleasant side effects of drugs, supplements and food additives. Reports of health problems resulting from an intake of aspartame make up approximately 75 percent of the total complaints received. In 1994 the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) released a list of 61 reported adverse reactions to aspartame, including: chest pains, asthma, arthritis, migraine headaches, insomnia, seizures, tremors, vertigo, and weight gain.
So has either the FDA or HHS called for a ban of aspartame? No. Has either of the agencies even called for a warning label? No. In fact, the FDA has resisted efforts to establish a warning label for aspartame, stating (completely contrary to all the evidence) that the complaints against the sweetener aren't sufficient enough to warrant such a label!
And have you heard the media calling for us to immediately remove every (heavily advertised) diet soft drink from our grocery store shelves to protect the public from the awful risk? After all, we're supposed to drink that "just for the taste of it." So to quote HHS Secretary Tommy Thompson, "Why would anybody take the risk?"
Witch hunt mentality
The current ephedra situation reminds me of a similar controversy involving l-tryptophan, a dietary supplement, used as a natural alternative to pharmaceutical sleeping medications. In 1989 there was a sudden rash of serious allergic reactions to l-tryptophan that resulted in 38 deaths. The problem was tracked down to a manufacturing short cut taken by one Japanese producer that had introduced a contaminant they didn't know about. L-tryptophan had been used for years without difficulty. But all it took was one bad batch. The FDA banned supplements of l-tryptophan in 1990.
When herbal formulations or dietary supplements begin to be perceived as dangerous, the medical mainstream moves quickly to demonize them - and by association, they demonize the supplement industry. This time, the demonizing process is gaining momentum daily. Congressmen and other government representatives see what appears to be a no-brainer issue and rush to publicly condemn the killer ephedra, many of them apparently unaware that ephedra is a far cry from ephedrine. Even the liberal lobby organization Public Citizen has threatened to sue the FDA to force a ban on ephedra.
It's quite amazing to see Public Citizen demanding that the government intervene to block everyone's access to an effective and useful herb (that has probably saved many more lives than it is accused of ending) in order to protect a few people who choose not to use it properly.
Meanwhile, no one seems to notice that this process is steadily legislating ourselves away from the freedom to make our own healthcare choices. Let your representatives in Congress know how you feel about this issue by sending them an e-mail. You can easily find e-mail addresses for congressmen and other government officials at a web site called Congress.org. If you prefer to write the old-fashioned way, you can find the appropriate mailing addresses at the same site.
And I hope you'll share this information with your friends and family too. Let them know that the information they've been hearing about ephedra in the mainstream press is not only short on reality, it's also a threat to our right to choose.
