20 Rep Squats

[Protobuilder]

Anybody done the 20 rep squat routine? What are your thoughts on it? I really need to get my leg strength and size up to par. I thought maybe since I've got thin, white-boy, "runners legs," maybe the high rep squat routine might help pack on size. Lots of people swear they've gotten great gains from it. [And, no, I have no plans to drink a gallon of milk a day, but I will keep my protein intake high as always. LoL]

In particular, any thoughts on running it, say, between some 5x5 cycles? It's "similar" to 5x5 in a few respects -- squatting 3x/wk, followed by prety simple back & chest work.

Here's what's in my head:

Monday

Squats -- 20 rep set
Bench & Rows -- 3-5x5 (not necessarily shooting for max weights)
(maybe some assistance work)

Wednesday

Squats -- 20 rep set
Lower back/hams (e.g.,deads, GMs, or pull-throughs) -- 3-5x5 (or maybe 2x10?)
Military -- 3-5x5
Shrugs -- w/e floats your boat

Friday

Squats -- 20 rep set
Bench & Chins-- 3-5x5
(maybe some assistance work)

 

[cubuff27]

I guess everyone is different, but I would drop the whole 20 rep idea and stick with 2 cycles of 5x5 for squats...then as a break switch to a 20 rep.

 

[musketeer]

20 to near failure?

3x a week would def burn me out!

 

[Extra_Strong]

I think you should give it a try to see how your body reacts..
give it 3 months and see what ya get.

myself like the 5x5 but i do like doing endurance work..

 

[LiftingDukkha]

The "Super Squats" routine as it's called seems truly incredible to me. Yes, it violates every principle that rejects "training to failure," but it's an incredible exception to the rule. I tried it just once***, and I can TELL, IF I stuck to it, murdering myself for the 6 weeks they call for, doing 1 set of 20-rep squats (with my previous 10-rep PR!!!!), I definitely would've gained several lbs of lean muscle. It's damn near f***ing impossible.

Its most brutal, rudimentary form is this:

1) Take your latest/best 10-rep PR in Squat;

2) Do it for 20 reps!

3) Pound out the first 10-14 reps in regular, gut-wrenching fashion; then begin to pause at the top of each succeeding rep, and take 3 very deep breaths, then lower down for the next rep. Repeat until you f***ing grind out all 20 reps.

4) Take maybe a day off.

5) Day after that, perform one more 20-rep set.

6) Do these Super-Squats, 1 set of 20 hyper-max reps, at least 3 times/week. (I think the true Super Squats routine calls for 6 days per week!!!!!!!)

7) Order a "Super-Squats Hip Belt" from www.ironmind.com , which allows you to perform squats without having a barbell on your back/shoulders, so that you can grind out those murderous sets nearly every single day of the week.

8) Every week, try to add at least 5 more pounds to the Squat weight used. If you add 10 lbs/week, then theoretically, at the end of 6 weeks, you would be squatting 60 more lbs for 20 reps, than you did for 10 reps before you began this routine!

9) Put the entire rest of your workout regimen on "lowest maintenance" mode until you complete the Super Squats 6-week routine. No running, no nothing. Barely do anything else except a few sets of chest & upper back, that's basically it.



You really are supposed to drink half-a-gallon of milk per day. It's easy to see why: You'll be burning the hell out of all the calories anyway, and there's really no other easy-access food that gives you more easy protein grams.


However, DON'T expect your 1-rep max single to significantly improve. Incredible as it seems, even this monstrous, incredible routine won't really improve a 1 RM max; it'll just vastly improve your 20-RM max.

But you will gain some serious muscle in just a few weeks. No way you can't.

The only problem is, you have to have the testicularity & intestinal fortitude to actually do it.


edit: ***"I tried it just once" = I mean, I did just one set, one day! Then dumped the plan to do the full 6 weeks & went back to my normal routines. *I* haven't had the testicularity & intestinal fortitude to do this beeyatch myself, yet!

 

[kiosk]

I've tried 20-rep squats and they are more mentally tough than physical I think, definitely wrecked by CNS.....I had to get off, and as far as mass, it did some but not way more than say 5x5.

 

[siamesedream]

I may try it sometime as I was currently experimenting with 20-rep failure on my chest exercises. I'm so used to training to failure, though, that I'd have to experiment to actually find out what my 20-rep failure would be. My 10-rep failure I've tested on squats is my REAL 10-rep failure, where I have to pause and lock out with my knees shaking for quite a bit after each rep after the 3rd or 4th one.

 

[NorgePrecision]

I started 20 rep squat 2 months ago every 4 days and I can't tell you how much that has improved my overall strength and size of my legs. High weight sets had absolutely nothing on 1x20x195. I do two warmup sets and then it's the real deal. Make sure when you hit 20, it's at or very near failure. I've gone from 1x20x135 to 1x20x195 in 2 months. STRETCH A LOT after the workout. I can't stress that enough.

 

[LiftingDukkha]

I sure hear the things said here! It's incredibly taxing on the CNS. norgeprecision, it seems like it MUST have added quite a bit of muscle to you. I mean, look at the percentile your lift increased: From 135 to 195, that's nearly a 50% increase! That's a LOT, percent-wise, and seems to indicate that you've probably added perhaps a corresponding amount of muscle to your legs & back.

I really do think when they say, "Take your 10-rep PR and do it 20 reps," they basically mean just that! I know it sounds impossible, but I think its sheer insanity is what makes it so mindbogglingly effective.

Actually, they're Breathing Squats. If you're already doing, essentially, Breathing Squats for 10 reps PR, then you're right, it's probably close to impossible to actually grit out 10 more on top of that. In my case, my "true" 10 rep PR was probably about 15-25 lbs. more than the weight I actually used when I did that one-time set of SuperSquats 20 reps -- and even then, I actually only got 18 reps. I kept dreaming of how much the next time I was going to pump out 20, but as days passed, I simply got intimidated at the thought of going back in there & actually attempting it. Finally I just said screw it & went back to my normal routine.

 

[LiftingDukkha]

I've tried 20-rep squats and they are more mentally tough than physical I think, definitely wrecked by CNS.....I had to get off, and as far as mass, it did some but not way more than say 5x5.

Those are all probably real good points. The Super Squats routine, IMO, is more like training for a Marathon or UltraMarathon or Ironman Triathlon, something that just seems impossible when you first start out. Perhaps the bigger component of it is "simply" the mental part, moreso than the physical part. But even then, going through the routine even for just one 6-week period, has to be psychologically transformative, if nothing else, and I would guess that's got to have a great carryover for confidence in the rest of one's lifting.

 

[siamesedream]

I don't understand how, scientifically, this program means anything but jack for actual muscle growth. I mean, according to all the stuff I've read on here, the "burn" has nothing to do with it. Why do 20 reps with your 10-rep PR instead of a few sets of 5-8 with it? As long as your total workload is equal, the gains should be equal, and you can make your total workload much higher using multiple sets and your recovery rate will be rediculously faster allowing you to work the muscle more than once a week.

As far as from what I understand of all the reading I've done here, this program is optimal for nothing but endurance. It doesn't seem that big of a deal to me since I'm so used to training to failure on squats in the same rest-pause style of the 20-rep program. Granted, I've never gone to 20 for failure, just 10 (and multiple rest-pause-esque sets to failure, at that), but I can't see the benefit other than to say "I can do it". Once I finally can touch a squat rack again after my stupid back heals up, I'm sure my squat will have deteriorated by a massive, massive amount, but I'll probably do the 20-rep squat just once to see what all the fuss is about and to say "I did it" but I don't see the benefit of a program that involves it.

 

[kiosk]

supposely, as I heard it, the 20-rep routine is highly anabolic and releases good testosterone into your system.

 

[Madcow2]

To effectively use this you have to be coming from a program where you aren't doing 20 rep squats. If you train in sets of 20 all the time, you'll quickly find out it doesn't work so well over the long-term. That said, if you come to it from another rep range it can really work well specifically as a plateau buster. Doing 20 reps with your 10RM or whatever is a very solid way of handling things and getting a short term burst. I don't know that I'd do it 3x a week or more for 6 weeks but if it's worth experimenting on. I think Glenn has used something like taking someone's best set of 5 and making them grunt through 5x5 with it. Just thinking 5RM doing 25 total reps, 10RM doing 20 reps - probably easier to maintain the 2nd for longer (lower workload as weight is lower and total reps, all the failure stuff aside) but both are functioning under the same premise.

The takeaway is that there's no "best" and everything can work but nothing works forever. If someone is going to use a 20 rep program I'd certainly not recommend it for their base training throughout the year nor if they are progressing well on regular lower rep work 3-8. That said, you go from being stalled out or plateaued, this might be an alternative that can break you though.

 

[Dial_tone]

I prefer the old standby 6-12 reps for legs.

 

[Vita]

i'm actually bringing this into my routine for a while. i'm training for strength/endurance, and am doing heavy/light/med weight squats, rotating between the three every workout (squats every workout)

i can't say anything for size gains, but i think mentally it's going to a positive addition.

FYI - my current best for ATF squats is 155x8, so i plan to do 135x20, and go up from there. i'm also in the same boat with having small "runners legs" and am focusing on leg strength, as i was able to rep on the bench what i could rep for squats. after a couple of weeks of doing squats every workout, i'm already getting up there...

 

[LiftingDukkha]

Just to be clear, the Super Squats 20-rep program is NOT meant to be done "forever."

It's meant to be done for just 6 weeks! From what I've read, anyway.

I think 6 weeks is practically impossible, as it is. But it's just short enough that someday I'm probably going to take a serious crack at it -- though I'll probably begin with a weight that's well submaximal of my 10-rep pr, and calculate so that I crack the 10 RM barrier with 20 reps by the end of the 6 weeks.

But, no way is 20-rep squats meant to do anything good for you over anything longer than 6 weeks. In fact, my guess is it shouldn't be done much more than once in a lifetime (the whole 6-week routine).

 

[musketeer]

i'm actually bringing this into my routine for a while. i'm training for strength/endurance, and am doing heavy/light/med weight squats, rotating between the three every workout (squats every workout)

i can't say anything for size gains, but i think mentally it's going to a positive addition.

FYI - my current best for ATF squats is 155x8, so i plan to do 135x20, and go up from there. i'm also in the same boat with having small "runners legs" and am focusing on leg strength, as i was able to rep on the bench what i could rep for squats. after a couple of weeks of doing squats every workout, i'm already getting up there...

Just for extra caution against overtraining, start at 110.

I could do 185lbs x 30+ reps, but still chose to start my 5x5 with that weight so that I could get a good run up...

 

[Protobuilder]

Thanks for the helpful posts all. I kind of thought about throwing it in after some 5x5 runs, which would be a nice change of pace. I dunno about 3x/wk. though! LoL

One concern I'm having though -- injury risk. It'd be easy to lose form trying to muscle through those 20 reps and for a guy w/ a weak, injury-prone lower back, it might not be a good idea.

 

[Vita]

Just for extra caution against overtraining, start at 110.

I could do 185lbs x 30+ reps, but still chose to start my 5x5 with that weight so that I could get a good run up...

if it's too easy to do 20 reps, should i just go 'till about failure and up it next light day?

 

[siamesedream]

I just did an experiment and I cannot believe the results. As I said, I always train to failure (usually low-reps) but stopped recently because of madcow's advice. This past week was my first week of not training to failure, and I instead did more sets with a less amount of reps and actually got in more volume than I was previously yet recovered much quicker. The past month (not including this past week), I've been training to failure on my chest in high-reps (20 reps) and have had little improvement in endurance going to failure on this 3 times a week. Just today, on my final workout of my first week of not training to failure yet meeting or exceeding the previous volume, I tested my 20-rep failure to see how many I could do (keep in mind this was AFTER my workout in which I was already very fatigued) and I could do my previous set of 20 for 30. Not only is this an huge a improvement, had I done it before my actual workout, I probably could've pumped out 7 or 8 more reps!

Thanks to this little experiment, I'm not convinced that endurance training is even any good for endurance...