2 questions regarding half life stuff

[kethnaab]

1) How *exactly* do half-lives work? I know the basic idea (longer half life = takes longer to get into system, takes longer to come out of system)

but how exactly do they work? If I have test enanthate, and I take 200mg of it today, and it has a 10-day half life, then I know it takes 10 days to get 200mg of test available into your system, and at the 20-day mark, you will be back down to 100mg, then at 30-day you have 50mg? and at 40 days, you have 25mg?

how does it dose itself from days 1 through 10?

2) What are the *exact* half lives of the main esters, and do they vary according to primary item? i.e. nandrolone decanoate vs. testosterone decanoate, 9 day half life for both? or do they differ when ocmbined with test vs. nandrolone?

thanks for the answers (or a pointer to an already-posted item that I haven't been able to dig up yet).

 

[bilter]

half life.....if test has a half life of 10 days & you take 200mg on day 1, on day 10 there is 100mg in you system, on day 20 there is 50 on day 30 there is 25. This is not a straight line decline it's exponential in reverse. AS far as what its doing days 1-10 it would be a very complicated formula to define that curve. I'm not sure as to the half life of the main esters but I'm sure someone will answer that. I do know nandorlone is detectible in a person for up to 18 months though so it must not be determined soley by the ester. Good ? though

 

[kethnaab]

so with half life, it takes the length of the half life to get up to 1/2 the amount injected?

a bit confused here. i know deca takes 18 months to completely clear the system, but that's because some of the metabolites are fat soluble and stick around in the system for extremely long periods (or so I'm told)

 

[kethnaab]

^^

 

[bilter]

so with half life, it takes the length of the half life to get up to 1/2 the amount injected?

a bit confused here. i know deca takes 18 months to completely clear the system, but that's because some of the metabolites are fat soluble and stick around in the system for extremely long periods (or so I'm told)

Thats a better explination. half life is the amount of time for the concentration to be reduces to 1/2 the measured amount regardless of when the amount is measured. So, in theory the amount never reaches zero. This was an equation we studied in college in my ordinary differential equations..........that class sucked

 

[LT3]

Bro the way you figure it out is the size of the esther devided by 2. so enanthate is 7 carbons long, thus 3.5 days. it is not 10 days. deca is 10 so devided by 2 is 5 days. cyp is 8 so devided by 2 is four.

 

[kethnaab]

wow, never heard that one before.

always heard cyp/enanth were a good 7-8 days for half life.

 

[bilter]

thats news to me also. take a look here for active half lives of common aas
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-steroid-half-life.asp
This link supports IT3 method. http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/anabolic-steroid-esters.htm

 

[LT3]

always heard cyp/enanth were a good 7-8 days for half life.

No Enth is 7 carbons long. and cyp is 8 carbons. so thats why you would inject enth every four days right. since 7/2 is 3.5, most bros round it off to 4 coz its more practicle.

how does it dose itself from days 1 through 10?

Well lets take an example of deca esther. doesnt matter if its nandrolone or test. what happens is that you inject it and it makes a depot (store house so to speak). and by doing so it gives you a steady release of the drug.

i.e. nandrolone decanoate vs. testosterone decanoate, 9 day half life for both? or do they differ when ocmbined with test vs. nandrolone?

theres no difference in the drug so test deca or nandrolone deca have the same half life, but a decanoate esther has a half life of 5 days, i think you'd be safe injecting it every week. as far as enth goes, inject every 4 days. prop inject eod.

Hope that helps

 

[jeb0177]

Oral steroids Drug Active half-life
Anadrol / Anapolan50 (oxymetholone) 8 to 9 hours
Anavar (oxandrolone) 9 hours
Dianabol (methandrostenolone, methandienone) 4.5 to 6 hours
Methyltestosterone 4 days
Winstrol (stanozolol)
(tablets or depot taken orally) 9 hours



Depot steroids Drug Active half-life
Deca-durabolin (Nandrolone decanate) 15 days
Equipoise 14 days
Finaject (trenbolone acetate) 3 days
Primobolan (methenolone enanthate) 10.5 days
Sustanon or Omnadren 15 to 18 days
(I have now seen data from a lab tech 'proving' that EOD is neccessary for good blood levels with sust)
Testosterone Cypionate 12 days
Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days
Testosterone Propionate 4.5 days
Testosterone Suspension 1 day
* Winstrol (stanozolol) 1 day


*Winstrol depot does not actually possess a classical half-life because it is un-esterified. Instead, the microcrystals dissolve slowly. Once they have all dissolved levels of the drug fall very rapidly. It is still an important consideration, and we have included it with a half-life of one day.


Steroid esters Drug Active half-life
Formate 1.5 days
Acetate 3 days
Propionate 4.5 days
Phenylpropionate 4.5 days (dont believe this is correct)
Butyrate 6 days
Valerate 7.5 days
Hexanoate 9 days
Caproate 9 days
Isocaproate 9 days
Heptanoate 10.5 days
Enanthate 10.5 days
Octanoate 12 days
Cypionate 12 days
Nonanoate 13.5 days
Decanoate 15 days
Undecanoate 16.5 days



Ancillaries Drug Active half-life
Arimidex 3 days
Clenbuterol 1.5 days
Clomid 5 days
Cytadren 6 hours
Ephedrine 6 hours
T3 10 hours


A practical example is if one was to inject 100mg of testosterone propionate and allow blood levels to peak. In 4.5 days time (half-life duration from the above tables) and providing no other injections had taken place, the level would be reduced to 50mg. Again, a further 4.5 days down the line and levels would have dropped to 25mg, and the value keeps halving every 4.5 days.

http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-...-half-life.asp

Detection times for AAS

Boldenone Undecyclenate 4-5 months
Clen 4-5 Days
Ephedrin 6-10 Days
Halo 2 months
Proviron 5 weeks
D-Bol 5 weeks
Methamphetamin 6-10 Days
Primo Depot 4-5 weeks
Deca 18 months
Nandrolon Phenylprop 12 months
Anavar 3 weeks
Anadrol 2 months
Winny oral 3 weeks
Winny inj 2 months
Test cyp 3 months
Test enat 3 months
Sustanon 3 months
Test Prop 2-3 weeks
Andriol 1 week
Tremolon Acet 4-5 weeks
Test supspenison No metabolites. t/e should
be back to normal in days.

Factors which influence the detection times


Metabolism
Fluid intake
Tolerance to the drug
Frequency of intake
Duration of intake
Body fat
Potency of drug
Dosage

Ester actual mg/100mg dose
test no ester 100
tren acetate 87
test prop 83
test enanth 72
test cyp 70
test undecan 63

 

[LT3]

No Bro thats not right.

cypionate has a half-life of 8 days - United States Pharmacopeial Convention, USP DI: Drug Information for the Health Care Professional, 1993, 108. Rand McNally, Taunton Mass.

enanthate ester has a half-life of 4 days - Weinbauer, G.F.; Jackwerth, B; et al. Acta Endocrinol. Copenh., 1990, 122, 432-42

According to that chart we should be injecting Test E every 10 days and injecting deca every 2 weeks. Thats not correct bro.

 

[kethnaab]

okay, what i'm trying to do is put together an excel chart so you can actually track how much stuff is in your system

if you inject, say, 200mg of testosterone poopanoate (it's a fake name, please no questions about where to buy it), and it has a half life of 8 days, then...

1) You want to inject it twice per half life
2) At day 10, there is 100mg of the de-poopanoated test in the system, at day 20, there is 50mg, at day 30, there is 25mg, at day 40 there is 12.5mg, etc

that much we know. what I would like to know...

a) days 1-8...is the test being released from the poopanoate depot steadily? i.e. 12.5mg on day 1, 25 mg on day 2, 37.5mg on day 3, 50 on day 4, 62.5 on day 5, 75 on day 6, 87.5 on day 7, up to 100 on day 8 ?

b) does the test, after it's half life, get removed at a linear rate, i.e. back down to 87.5 on day 9, 75 on day 10, 62.5 on day 11, etc.

i know, pain in the ass stuff, but if I can get this info, I might be able to work out something kinda nifty.

 

[LT3]

no bother at all bro, im happy to help.
Ok:

a) days 1-8...is the test being released from the poopanoate depot steadily? i.e. 12.5mg on day 1, 25 mg on day 2, 37.5mg on day 3, 50 on day 4, 62.5 on day 5, 75 on day 6, 87.5 on day 7, up to 100 on day 8 ?

Yes thats exactly what happens, it gives you steady doses daily.

b) does the test, after it's half life, get removed at a linear rate, i.e. back down to 87.5 on day 9, 75 on day 10, 62.5 on day 11, etc.

Im not sure i understand this question, do you mean does it get absorbed by the body the same amount each day? or is the trace of the steroid removed from the body at that rate?

 

[blut wump]

Here's one of my old posts on the half-life formula. You should be able to plug it into a spreadsheet or program if you can code.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5284227&postcount=4

 

[kethnaab]

yeah, got that working, but please see my question regarding it. Thanks a ton for the info on the equation, but how about *prior* to the half-life? i.e. when you first inject test enanthate @ 400mg, you don't have 400mg in your blood system....EVER. At least not from that injection.

so I could use the equation from the half life on, but what about prior to the half life?

test shitanoate (MADE UP NAME, PEOPLE) has a half life of 10 days. I inject 400mg. At day 10, I have 200mg left in my system, and from there, day 11, 12, 13, etc would follow the equation, but what about the first 9 days? lt3, you indicated that it is a linear release, i.e. day 1, day 2, day 3 etc would be 20, 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, 180, 200mg in the system.

Do I follow?

 

[blut wump]

I posted in the other thread.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=424023

The release is logarithmic.

 

[Destroyer1986*]

lt3 is correct, ive tried both methods injecting enan every 3 days and injecting it every 7 days. By far every 3rd day I had much better results.

 

[kethnaab]

okay, so farkin' around with my excel spreadsheet thingee here, and this is what I get as results for the almighty testosterone shitanoate, injected 400mg, with a half life of 10 days

Day Amount in system
1- 26.8
2- 51.8
3- 75.1
4- 96.9
5- 117.2
6- 136.1
7- 153.8
8- 170.3
9- 185.6
10- 200.0
11- 186.6
12- 174.1
13- 162.5
14- 151.6
15- 141.4
16- 132.0
17- 123.1
18- 114.9
19- 107.2
20- 100.0

on the left is the # of days after injection, on the right is the amount circulating. Make sense? Does it seem accurate?

 

[blut wump]

Up to the mid-way point at the half-life you seem to be accumulating the daily release. After the mid-point you seem to be displaying the amount remaining in depot. I'm just guessing here, I didn't run any numbers.

Also, the amount 'circulating' depends on factors which are particular to your own body and how it uses the test. Test has a pretty short half life once it has been freed from the ester. I think what you probably want to be aiming for is a pretty steady day-to day release of test from the depot rather than any other consideration.

I think repeat injections on half the half-life is fairly optimal from what I recall.

 

[kethnaab]

the idea is to try to figure out how much stuff is in your system, to at least the best approximation. Understood that various factors are going to influence this, depending upon how your body reacts.

It's just be nice to be able to figure out (obviously to best average approximation) how much you are accumulating in your system.

i.e. assuming you don't mind injections, if you split your 200mg/ml test shots into 4x shots, 1/2cc apiece, EOD instead of 2 shots E3D, will there be a noticeable difference in testosterone in your system due to surges/spikes/dips, etc.

and I'm not so much looking for someone to say "yes there will be a difference" or "no bro, no big deal, E3D is good for enanth", I want to know EXACTLY what the difference is because....I'm bored and I'm somewhat obsessive/compulsive.

yes, it is pretty much silliness and unnecessary, but WTF, people might find it useful, and I have an intellectual curiosity here.



thanks alot for your help.