I dont think anyone is argueing it does not work, just not as well. 2.5 weeks into mu current cycle and I am up 10lbs, I expect about 30 by the time its done as well as fat loss. The point boing a person could do 8 weeks of fina and get get 3x the results for less money.Ok guys I have taken 1-AD also. My buddy is a manager at golds so I get it at there costs. I will say that the shit really does work. I took 9 a day for 2 month and gained about 13 pds of muscle cut some fat and got strong as hell.