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Research Chemical SciencesUGFREAKeudomestic
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Muscle-doc, Emidoohann, Xabier, Marius & company...I need you!

No me parece mucho 5 dias de entreno de hecho lo hago desde hace 3 años ya de lunes a viernes descansando los fines de semana, y he crecido de maravilla, no le veo a eso nada de malo, y no un solo grupo muscular como dices 2 musculos al dia repitiendo 2 musculos cada semana rotando la rutina cada 12 o 10 semanas o a veces cada 4 semanas.
 
A veces una persona entra en un lugar y ve a mucha gente decir distintas cosas y piensa que son distintos puntos de vista y todos son respetables y validos , y entopnces cada uno elige lo que le parece mejor...y no tiene porque ser asi, quiza simplemente unos tienen razon y otros no.
Para mi mucha gente no tiene un punto de vista distinto..simplemente estan confundidos , asi que intentar averiguar donde puede haber distintos putos de vista y donde las cosas son correctas o no...
 
Bueno a mi parecer debes entrenar un músculo por dia unos 45 min.

Proteínas de buena calidad no mezcolanzas de proteína como son los embutidos (te aconsejo mas o menos unos 40 gramos de prote por comida y son 6 comidas) y carbos de 200gr a 300gr en cada comida (emido tu dices que es ya cocido yo savia que era pesado crudo. ¿cual es la verdad?). lo mejor que puedes regalarte es tratar de llevar un control exacto de todo lo que comas.

Lo del batido pruébalo pero si te hace mal déjalo y ya, todo tiene que ser de acuerdo a lo que tu sientas que valla bien con tu cuerpo.

Para alguien que empieza me sigue pareciendo mejor enatato y bolde.

Lo del cortisol es lógico que si lo que quieres es formar músculo o conservarlo tienes que luchar contra la fuerza de esta hormona catabólica, siempre!. (asi que creo no hay disparidad en este tema, solo que al parecer no todos conocen la función del cortisol muy bien :worried: )

Bueno de el post ciclo haber si no me meto en líos, pero bueno hay voy, mira como crees que estos tipazos se han dado cuenta de como o cual le funciona mejor, yo creo que probando las diferentes formas (recuerda que lo que te sirva a ti no necesariamente me puede servir a mi) asi que estúdiale un poco y realiza uno que te parezca de lo mas cuerente para ti con el que te sientas mas a gusto y que realmente creas que te servirá, osea que tienes que sentirte a gusto y confiado de lo que realizas, aunque aqui hay muchos que saben mas y te pueden dar muy buenas soluciones con sus argumentos puedes darte cuenta que te puede funcionar y que no asi podrás tener lo que realmente necesitas para ti y solo para ti y con eso tu recuperación sera única en tu cuerpo. (Disparidad en este, si que lo hay :p )

trans tiene mucha razón, yo en lo particular opino igual, el eje lo tocas con lo que sea, por que lo que te metas externo (exógeno) tiene repercusiones sobre lo que produces (endógeno), asi que sea lo que sea que te metas te toca el eje, imagino que habra gente que alguno no le toque el eje, pero pues felicidades, pero tu hasta ahora no sabes si tines similitud con el, en este sentido, asi que mientras tanto como dice el trans.
En lo particular para un post ciclo la primera ves metería clomi, tamoxi, hcg. vez como te funciona y despues le vas haciendo los cambios que a ti te funcionen mejor, pero eso si muy atento con todo, ok
 
Ok.

Lo de el enteno cinco veces por semana, dos gurpos musculares cada día ya lo hice un año y no me fue bien. En mi caso no.

También me parecen elevadas las dósis para un primer ciclo.

Marius, no crees que con menos conseguiras también buenos resultados.. pq...os lanzo esta pregunta:

Es cierto que cuanto más acostumbres tu cuerpo a los anabolizantes menos efecto te harán con el tiempo??
Por tanto, si es así, es mejor empezar con dósis bajas, para en posteriores ciclos, en el futuro ir subiendo...
 
Yo no tengo claro que el cortisol se vea afectado durante el ciclo con esteroides y si lo es no hasta el punto de tener que controlarlo, de echo es afectado muy poco segun los estudios que lei o nada y el tomar cytadren lo que hara es bajarlo mas, y el cortisol por debajo de los niveles fisiologicos no es tampoco algo bueno , el cortisol tiene su funcion en el cuerpo tambien
Os dejo unos estudios donde salen un grupo de athletas usando esteroides y miden los valores del cortisol.

Estudio 1

Physiological responses to resistance-exercise in athletes self-administering anabolic steroids.

Rozenek R, Rahe CH, Kohl HH, Marple DN, Wilson GD, Stone MH.

Department of Physical Education, California State University Long Beach.

Endocrine and metabolic responses to resistance exercise were compared in 5 athletes self-administering (SL) anabolic steroids and 8 athletes (L) not using these compounds. Exercise consisted of 5 sets of 10 repetitions in the squat and quarter squat. Blood samples were collected before (pre) and immediately after (post) exercise, and following 30 minutes of recovery (post-30). Except for significantly lower lactate concentrations in SL (p less than 0.015) at post-30, the responses to exercise and recovery were similar in both groups. Significantly higher hematocrits (p less than 0.0001), total androgen concentrations (p less than 0.0001), and androgen/cortisol ratios (p less than 0.0001) were observed in the SL group across all time periods. Plasma androgen concentrations increased about 22% in SL following exercise, even though plasma LH concentrations were significantly lower (p less than 0.0001) than in L. Plasma ACTH and cortisol concentrations were not significantly affected. Both groups displayed similar endocrine and metabolic responses to an acute bout of resistance exercise. The higher androgen/cortisol ratios and lower plasma lactate concentrations during recovery are two potential factors which may help explain the lower subjective level of fatigue following training sessions often reported by individuals who use anabolic steroids.


Estudio 2

Response of serum hormones to androgen administration in power athletes.

Alen M, Reinila M, Vihko R.

Endocrine effects of self-administration of high doses of anabolic steroids and testosterone were investigated in five power athletes during 26 wk of training, and for the following 12-16 wk after drug withdrawal. After 26 wk of anabolic steroid and testosterone administration, serum testosterone concentrations had increased 2.3-fold. This was associated with increased concentrations of serum estradiol, which rose 7-fold to values (0.48 nmol X 1(-1) typical for females. There was a major decrease in serum FSH and LH concentrations, but they returned to control levels following drug withdrawal. However, serum testosterone concentrations stayed at low levels (9 nmol X 1(-1) ) during this follow-up period, indicating long-lasting impairment of testicular endocrine function. Serum ACTH concentrations were also decreased during steroid administration, possibly due to a corticoid-like effect of some of the anabolic steroids taken in high doses. However, no changes were seen in serum cortisol. The only consistent change in the control group was an increase in serum LH concentrations during the most intensive training, suggesting that a decreasing tendency of serum testosterone was compensated for by augmented LH secretion.

Estudio 3

Response of serum testosterone and its precursor steroids, SHBG and CBG to anabolic steroid and testosterone self-administration in man.

Ruokonen A, Alen M, Bolton N, Vihko R.

The influence of high doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids on testicular endocrine function and on circulating steroid binding proteins, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and cortisol binding globulin (CBG), were investigated in power athletes for 26 weeks of steroid self-administration and for the following 16 weeks after drug withdrawal. Serum testosterone and androstenedione concentrations increased (P less than 0.05) but pregnenolone, 17-hydroxypregnenolone, dehydroepiandrosterone, 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol, progesterone and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations strongly decreased (P less than 0.001) during steroid administration. Serum pregnenolone, 17-hydroxypregnenolone and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate concentrations followed the changes of the corresponding unconjugated steroids but 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol and testosterone sulphate concentrations remained unchanged during the follow-up time. During drug administration SHBG concentrations decreased by about 80 to 90% and remained low even for the 16 weeks following steroid withdrawal. Steroid administration had no influence on serum CBG concentrations. In conclusion, self-administration of testosterone and anabolic steroids soon led to impairment of testicular endocrine function which was characterized by low concentrations of testosterone precursors, high ratios of testosterone to its precursor steroids and low SHBG concentrations. Decreased concentrations of SHBG and testicular steroids were still partly evident during the 16 weeks after drug withdrawal. The depressed circulating levels of dehydroepiandrosterone and its sulphate may indicate that the androgenic-anabolic steroids also suppress adrenal androgen production.
 
Realsugar said:
Es cierto que cuanto más acostumbres tu cuerpo a los anabolizantes menos efecto te harán con el tiempo??

No no es cierto , te hacen menos efecto porque cada ciclo en teoria eres mas grande y creces menos , porque cada vez estas mas cerca de tu limite natural o lo has sobrepasado por mas kilos con lo cual cuesta mas crecer
 
Xabier, el cortisol actúa como antiinflamatorio, no?

Para aquellas personas con enfermedades autoinmunes no crees que podría ser negativo controlarlo?





xabier said:
Yo no tengo claro que el cortisol se vea afectado durante el ciclo con esteroides y si lo es no hasta el punto de tener que controlarlo, de echo es afectado muy poco segun los estudios que lei o nada y el tomar cytadren lo que hara es bajarlo mas, y el cortisol por debajo de los niveles fisiologicos no es tampoco algo bueno , el cortisol tiene su funcion en el cuerpo tambien
Os dejo unos estudios donde salen un grupo de athletas usando esteroides y miden los valores del cortisol.

Estudio 1

Physiological responses to resistance-exercise in athletes self-administering anabolic steroids.

Rozenek R, Rahe CH, Kohl HH, Marple DN, Wilson GD, Stone MH.

Department of Physical Education, California State University Long Beach.

Endocrine and metabolic responses to resistance exercise were compared in 5 athletes self-administering (SL) anabolic steroids and 8 athletes (L) not using these compounds. Exercise consisted of 5 sets of 10 repetitions in the squat and quarter squat. Blood samples were collected before (pre) and immediately after (post) exercise, and following 30 minutes of recovery (post-30). Except for significantly lower lactate concentrations in SL (p less than 0.015) at post-30, the responses to exercise and recovery were similar in both groups. Significantly higher hematocrits (p less than 0.0001), total androgen concentrations (p less than 0.0001), and androgen/cortisol ratios (p less than 0.0001) were observed in the SL group across all time periods. Plasma androgen concentrations increased about 22% in SL following exercise, even though plasma LH concentrations were significantly lower (p less than 0.0001) than in L. Plasma ACTH and cortisol concentrations were not significantly affected. Both groups displayed similar endocrine and metabolic responses to an acute bout of resistance exercise. The higher androgen/cortisol ratios and lower plasma lactate concentrations during recovery are two potential factors which may help explain the lower subjective level of fatigue following training sessions often reported by individuals who use anabolic steroids.


Estudio 2

Response of serum hormones to androgen administration in power athletes.

Alen M, Reinila M, Vihko R.

Endocrine effects of self-administration of high doses of anabolic steroids and testosterone were investigated in five power athletes during 26 wk of training, and for the following 12-16 wk after drug withdrawal. After 26 wk of anabolic steroid and testosterone administration, serum testosterone concentrations had increased 2.3-fold. This was associated with increased concentrations of serum estradiol, which rose 7-fold to values (0.48 nmol X 1(-1) typical for females. There was a major decrease in serum FSH and LH concentrations, but they returned to control levels following drug withdrawal. However, serum testosterone concentrations stayed at low levels (9 nmol X 1(-1) ) during this follow-up period, indicating long-lasting impairment of testicular endocrine function. Serum ACTH concentrations were also decreased during steroid administration, possibly due to a corticoid-like effect of some of the anabolic steroids taken in high doses. However, no changes were seen in serum cortisol. The only consistent change in the control group was an increase in serum LH concentrations during the most intensive training, suggesting that a decreasing tendency of serum testosterone was compensated for by augmented LH secretion.

Estudio 3

Response of serum testosterone and its precursor steroids, SHBG and CBG to anabolic steroid and testosterone self-administration in man.

Ruokonen A, Alen M, Bolton N, Vihko R.

The influence of high doses of testosterone and anabolic steroids on testicular endocrine function and on circulating steroid binding proteins, sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and cortisol binding globulin (CBG), were investigated in power athletes for 26 weeks of steroid self-administration and for the following 16 weeks after drug withdrawal. Serum testosterone and androstenedione concentrations increased (P less than 0.05) but pregnenolone, 17-hydroxypregnenolone, dehydroepiandrosterone, 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol, progesterone and 17-hydroxyprogesterone concentrations strongly decreased (P less than 0.001) during steroid administration. Serum pregnenolone, 17-hydroxypregnenolone and dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate concentrations followed the changes of the corresponding unconjugated steroids but 5-androstene-3 beta, 17 beta-diol and testosterone sulphate concentrations remained unchanged during the follow-up time. During drug administration SHBG concentrations decreased by about 80 to 90% and remained low even for the 16 weeks following steroid withdrawal. Steroid administration had no influence on serum CBG concentrations. In conclusion, self-administration of testosterone and anabolic steroids soon led to impairment of testicular endocrine function which was characterized by low concentrations of testosterone precursors, high ratios of testosterone to its precursor steroids and low SHBG concentrations. Decreased concentrations of SHBG and testicular steroids were still partly evident during the 16 weeks after drug withdrawal. The depressed circulating levels of dehydroepiandrosterone and its sulphate may indicate that the androgenic-anabolic steroids also suppress adrenal androgen production.
 
Es una de las cosas que hace si ..tambien participa en la regulacion de celulas rojas y hemoglobina y tambien afecta al sistema inmunologico claro, con lo cual en personas con enfermedades autoinmunes no creo que fuera una buena idea, claro que hablamos de bajar el cortisol por debajo de valores fisiologicos , si partimos de la base que en ciclo el cortisol no se eleva , de echo mucha gente dice que los esteroides funcionan como antagonistas, pues usar cytadren bien puede bajarlos muy por debajo de lo normal, en post-ciclo seria distinto, pero en ciclo no lo veo claro su uso.
 
A mi parecer entrenar dos musculos diarios durante la semana llevaria a entrenar 2 veces por semana cada musculo, recordemos que cada zona tiene su tiempo de recuperacion por lo que terminarias estresandolo, entrena cinco veces a la semana un musculo diario, puedes ser lunes deltoides, martes piernas, miercoles pectorales, jueves espalda/pantorillas, viernes biceps/triceps. En lo de las dosis le doy la razon a Xavier ya que a cuanto mas crezcan mas demanda de estos necesitaras para seguir creciendo.salu2
 
A mi parecer entrenar dos musculos diarios durante la semana llevaria a entrenar 2 veces por semana cada musculo, recordemos que cada zona tiene su tiempo de recuperacion por lo que terminarias estresandolo, entrena cinco veces a la semana un musculo diario, puedes ser lunes deltoides, martes piernas, miercoles pectorales, jueves espalda/pantorillas, viernes biceps/triceps. En lo de las dosis le doy la razon a Xabier ya que a cuanto mas crezcan mas demanda de estos necesitaras para seguir creciendo.salu2
 
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