Winstrol finisher: Worth it?

[zlwhine]

Hey everyone! Was just wondering the opinion of fellow members here regarding winny as a finisher. Starting my cycle Monday and I am currently debating whether to throw winny in at the end to hone things in and apply the finishing touches. The cycle will be simple and be as follows:

Week 1-12: Test E 500 mg EW
Week 1-6: Tbol 60 mg ED
Week 10-14: Winny 50 mg ED

Aromasin during cycle as needed
NAC & Liv 52 taken throughout

PCT begins day after last ingestion of winny tabs

In your opinion, do you think it's more worthwhile (for a lean bulk cycle - one that you end being the same body fat as you started with or just a tad higher in body fat) to finish off the last few weeks and try to squeeze out a couple more pounds of muscle, OR would the last few weeks (last 4-6 weeks of a 12 week cycle) be negligible in terms of muscle gain, and thus would make using winny at the end to get harder and taper everything in (and maybe even lose a few lbs of body fat in the process)?

This is not a cycle specific question, but rather very general; although any criticism and advice is ALWAYS welcome and feel free to comment!

In simpler terms, which way does the cost:benefit ratio of using winny as a finisher in a lean bulk swing? Would it be more beneficial to attempt to gain muscle in those last few weeks or use winny to get everything in check (harden up, lose some body fat, get stronger)? Let me know what you think!

 

[SwollenMember_18]

Hey everyone! Was just wondering the opinion of fellow members here regarding winny as a finisher. Starting my cycle Monday and I am currently debating whether to throw winny in at the end to hone things in and apply the finishing touches. The cycle will be simple and be as follows:

Week 1-12: Test E 500 mg EW
Week 1-6: Tbol 60 mg ED
Week 10-14: Winny 50 mg ED

Aromasin during cycle as needed
NAC & Liv 52 taken throughout

PCT begins day after last ingestion of winny tabs

In your opinion, do you think it's more worthwhile (for a lean bulk cycle - one that you end being the same body fat as you started with or just a tad higher in body fat) to finish off the last few weeks and try to squeeze out a couple more pounds of muscle, OR would the last few weeks (last 4-6 weeks of a 12 week cycle) be negligible in terms of muscle gain, and thus would make using winny at the end to get harder and taper everything in (and maybe even lose a few lbs of body fat in the process)?

This is not a cycle specific question, but rather very general; although any criticism and advice is ALWAYS welcome and feel free to comment!

In simpler terms, which way does the cost:benefit ratio of using winny as a finisher in a lean bulk swing? Would it be more beneficial to attempt to gain muscle in those last few weeks or use winny to get everything in check (harden up, lose some body fat, get stronger)? Let me know what you think!

IMO you should finish your original plan and use those 4-6 final weeks to keep packing on some size

I think you'll be disappointed if you try to do a mini cut at the end of a shorter cycle like this... I could see it in a longer cycle where you have had 16 weeks to build and then use the final 4 to harden up and not loose any gains. But in this scenario those extra weeks will definately be put to better use for adding a bit extra mass.

Then keep eating and training hard after your cycle... Keep everything you worked so hard for, and then run a cutter/recomp cycle next. Or even take some extra time natty and use a bit of Clen to shed some fat once you've recovered from pct, and run another lean bulk cycle.

I made the mistake of trying to do what you are thinking about in one of my first cycles because I was so afraid of coming out to soft, but i regret it because once the water came off during Pct I was actually pretty lean still and sacricifced about 8-10 pounds I could have kept.

Maybe even add tbol back in again if you wanted and just drop the cals back a little bit or carb cycle the last few weeks and you might even notice you dry up a bit without actually having to "cut"

My .02$

 

[zlwhine]

IMO you should finish your original plan and use those 4-6 final weeks to keep packing on some size

I think you'll be disappointed if you try to do a mini cut at the end of a shorter cycle like this... I could see it in a longer cycle where you have had 16 weeks to build and then use the final 4 to harden up and not loose any gains. But in this scenario those extra weeks will definately be put to better use for adding a bit extra mass.

Then keep eating and training hard after your cycle... Keep everything you worked so hard for, and then run a cutter/recomp cycle next. Or even take some extra time natty and use a bit of Clen to shed some fat once you've recovered from pct, and run another lean bulk cycle.

I made the mistake of trying to do what you are thinking about in one of my first cycles because I was so afraid of coming out to soft, but i regret it because once the water came off during Pct I was actually pretty lean still and sacricifced about 8-10 pounds I could have kept.

Maybe even add tbol back in again if you wanted and just drop the cals back a little bit or carb cycle the last few weeks and you might even notice you dry up a bit without actually having to "cut"

My .02$

That actually sounds like what I've been wanting to here haha. I guess I was in the mentality that I "should" use the winny at the end because I have it at my disposal and otherwise would be a waste, but I completely see where you are coming from.

Some have recommended winny use at the end solely for its strength gaining properties as the ability to perform movements with more resistance will more efficiently stimulate and break down the muscle fibers, allowing you to utilize the strength during PCT and lessen muscle loss. However, if an additional 8-10 lbs is gainable within that time frame, it would seem that the potential losses with an additional 10 lbs of muscle gained would be still more beneficial than utilizing the strength increases toward the end of the cycle and not putting on significant muscle mass with winny as a finisher.

Like you said, water weight can be VERY deceiving, and it is difficult to truly see where you are at with water retention or subcutaneous bloat!

If I can actually gain another 8-10 pounds potentially in those last few weeks, that definitely would be the route of action and I would for sure hold off on the winny. Granted, my calories will sit slightly above my maintenance (3500 split into a 40/40/20 macronutrient ratio more or less) and will be adjusted accordingly as the cycle progresses to avoid any plateauing and maximize growth. Is that potential number still realistic for my purposes as I am not in "full out bulk mode" and would like to stay around the same body fat throughout the cycle? I apologize for my ignorance and appreciate the advice!

 

[SwollenMember_18]

No ignorance man, I'm like you, I HATE having fluff... But I've come to the realization that it's all part of the process... Think big picture a few years down the road when you could be peeled at 30 pounds heavier than if you were to do these mini cuts.

I'm running drol right now heading into summer and it's tough cuz I can see myself gettin watery but the gains are so worth it (and I love eating) hahaha.

Winny could potentially add some muscle, but it is better suited at the end of a recomp or cut to realllly get that grainy defined look. Just save it for down the road when it will be utilized to its full potential!

I think you could definately add another 6-8clean pounds in your final 6 weeks of you bust your ass and eat to gain. I'm thinking you'll be grateful you go this route instead of potentially wasting some valuable grow time.

And maybe pick 2 days a week where you eat slightly more than usual (ex. Leg day and back day) just to give yourself an extra bit of a surplus at the end of the week! You'll stay lean this this way and any extra growth will just be icing on the cake

 

[zlwhine]

No ignorance man, I'm like you, I HATE having fluff... But I've come to the realization that it's all part of the process... Think big picture a few years down the road when you could be peeled at 30 pounds heavier than if you were to do these mini cuts.

I'm running drol right now heading into summer and it's tough cuz I can see myself gettin watery but the gains are so worth it (and I love eating) hahaha.

Winny could potentially add some muscle, but it is better suited at the end of a recomp or cut to realllly get that grainy defined look. Just save it for down the road when it will be utilized to its full potential!

I think you could definately add another 6-8clean pounds in your final 6 weeks of you bust your ass and eat to gain. I'm thinking you'll be grateful you go this route instead of potentially wasting some valuable grow time.

Ahhh things are starting to clear out. I believe my mind has been focused on looking "beach ready" throughout the entire cycle, which may have blocked and superseded goals down the line! I am much more drawn to the idea of holding off on the winny now and trying to grow throughout the entire cycle. I guess I just have buyers remorse and am a little upset it will not be utilized right away haha. I fully agree, putting on some more size will definitely be worth it down the line! After all, that's the hard part and not fat loss, right?!

And going this route will allow me to continue eating well the entire cycle (I also love to eat lmao)! It's also easier on the liver!

I appreciate the insight based off of your experience! It will truly make a difference in how I do things to promote the best possible outcome. This is why I love this forum so much haha.

 

[zmyj88]

I've come to accept that my idea of "fluffy" is the what the general population sees as "holy shit that dudes shredded"

...I too wanna be 6% stage ready, year round. I settle for the bulky look tho. Veins, check, good to go

 

[SwollenMember_18]

I've come to accept that my idea of "fluffy" is the what the general population sees as "holy shit that dudes shredded"

...I too wanna be 6% stage ready, year round. I settle for the bulky look tho. Veins, check, good to go

Yep this is Lol, I always think I'm gettin fat... Then I go to the grocery store and see the obese crew buying cookies and doughnuts and coke... Then I'm like shiiiiiiiit I'm gooooood hahaha.

 

[zlwhine]

Yep this is Lol, I always think I'm gettin fat... Then I go to the grocery store and see the obese crew buying cookies and doughnuts and coke... Then I'm like shiiiiiiiit I'm gooooood hahaha.

Lmao I love this. I think we all have a case of "mirror sickness" to a certain extent haha. We see ourselves a completely different way than the general population sees us that is for sure. Our "fluffy" is shredded beyond possible to them lol.

 

[SwollenMember_18]

Lmao I love this. I think we all have a case of "mirror sickness" to a certain extent haha. We see ourselves a completely different way than the general population sees us that is for sure. Our "fluffy" is shredded beyond possible to them lol.

Truth... It only gets worse once you jump on the gear too, because you always think you should look like Phil Heath after a cycle er 2 nawwwwtttttt

 

[zlwhine]

Truth... It only gets worse once you jump on the gear too, because you always think you should look like Phil Heath after a cycle er 2 nawwwwtttttt

Yeah, unfortunately most of the population think you pop a magic pill and... Boom! IFBB pro made! No one really understands the work it takes to actually get to that level... You tell them years of hard work, more dedication than they have put toward anything in their lives, and a continuous effort day by day with no days off is what it takes to get where you are, and they will still only think you popped a pill and woke up like that the next morning. All that work for us is therapy, a hobby, and a lifestyle choice, while it is simply a chore for them and selfie session that they can later post on Instagram so people view them as "fit". What a mockery all this has become, where true enthusiasts are now seen as the lazy *sigh* and if you didn't post it on Instagram it didn't happen. We will continue doing this for US, while they do it for the opinion of OTHERS lol. /endrant haha