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The Naturals

Tatyana

Elite Mentor
I know this may seem a bit unusual in the gear section, but I though some of you might be interested in see what some have done without using any performance enhancing drugs.

The natural scene is HUGE in the UK, so much so that the UKBFF/NPC has recently introduced a 'Classic bodybuilding' category, and dropped their regulations about only being able to compete in the UKBFF.

I will start with my coach, Lee Williams.

He has been competing on and off for about 20 years now.

Think he is about 5 foot 7 or 8, and I think he is 38 now.

Weight, not sure.


A lot of these pics were from some of his last comps, he was doing IFBB shows in China and Russia.

russia-side-on2.jpg


mini-back.jpg


back.jpg


chest.jpg


triceps2.jpg


leeside.jpg


lee10-1.jpg




I think you can see why I have him as a coach.
 
One of my favs, Tony Montalbano

Also UK, and a British Champion.

He promotes one of the NPA (Natural Physique Association) which is natural for life, and has always been really encouraging with my participation in the NPA.

Lee has coached him as well, I think I will ask him for some more comp pics, these are all photoshoots for Maximuscle.


bodyflex117003.jpg


7D7X1188.jpg
 
Andrew Merrifield, another Brit.

I am pretty sure he competes at under 70 kg, again not that tall, freaky condition though


Pretty sure he won the Brits last year


AndrewMerrifield.jpg


Andrewfront.jpg
 
Layne Norton, another American Nattie Pro.

He is starting a natural column in Muscular Development in April.

Has a PhD in physiology specialising in muscle growth.

sickme.jpg


obliques.jpg
 
A few more of the British Lads, top amateurs.

Glen Danbury, wish I had some recent comp pics from this year, he looked awesome

Glendanbury2.jpg



GlenDanbury.jpg



And Fivos Averokiou, I also need a few more pics of him, he goes up against the gear boys all the time


This is him 7 weeks out last year

7weeksout.jpg
 
This is a tough one. I do believe that some guys have amazing genetics. Being young helps too and every guy under 30 should try and push it to the limit naturally IMO. Look at Reeves, not huge but as perfect as can be and I believe completely natural. His muscles just don't look steroidal. No bloat, striations or vascuarity. Just perfect though. All the gear in the world won't make you look like that.

I do believe some of these guys depicted are dried for a contest and may not and can not look that ripped 24/7, nor do I think dehydrating that much is very healthy.

Okay, giving the benefit of the doubt to most of those guys, the first two are highly suspect. In fact, I'd bet the bank they are either on, or have been on and learned to keep the enhanced muscle. Not that amazing gains can't be made with it, but gear gives a look -- a density and depth, a thinness of skin that is, well, steroidal. Those guys have it.

I've made the point that you can look great with very little gear, and you can look very good with no gear. But to suggest you can look like a hardcore roidhead naturally...mmmm, I have to say, it may backfire because it's so unlikely.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Okay, giving the benefit of the doubt to most of those guys, the first two are highly suspect. In fact, I'd bet the bank they are either on, or have been on and learned to keep the enhanced muscle. Not that amazing gains can't be made with it, but gear gives a look -- a density and depth, a thinness of skin that is, well, steroidal. Those guys have it.

I've made the point that you can look great with very little gear, and you can look very good with no gear. But to suggest you can look like a hardcore roidhead naturally...mmmm, I have to say, it may backfire because it's so unlikely.

Most of those guys are juicing. Period. I totally agree with Nelson and need2
 
Just to add to my comment above.

I know guys locally who compete in the natty comps. They are natty now but used in the past.
 
Tatyana said:
Layne Norton, another American Nattie Pro.

He is starting a natural column in Muscular Development in April.

Has a PhD in physiology specialising in muscle growth.

sickme.jpg


obliques.jpg

he is the real deal I know him from BB.com and like him
 
OMEGA said:
he is the real deal I know him from BB.com and like him


You never know what somebody does behind closed doors.

There is no way his PHD helped him get that physique. That's an insult to everybody in the industry.

He either has 1-10,000.000.000 genetics or is on something. Hell, his genetics are amazing either way, but don't take me for a fool.
 
if someone says something to me I have no reason not to believe ....
he says he is NATURAL.

If the someone or a group says person x is a liar or a cheat, I refuse to take their opinion and then JUDGE person x, whom has never lied or cheated me.

It called hearsay and gossip, the forked tongue has no place in business and in justice ( the religious kind) and it has no place with me.
 
Im all for going natural if you can, some people can reach their ideal physique naturally. Gear is to push you past your genetic peak, and everyones genetic peak is different.
 
i have friends that go around telling everyone the don't use steroids. However, they're on more PHs and designer steroids than Mark McGuire.

Now as far as being completely NATURAL, some of those guys I question just a little bit. I understand genetics, hard work, and diet; but there's that "appearance" of someone on steroids and I believe that some of those guys have it.

And if they're not on, then more power to them for having the most freakish genetics ever.
 
I am not trying to bash any of the gentlemen's accomplishments or physiques. They are all great and I have no personal knowledge of any of them so I can't say for certain whether they are natural or not. Some, like Nelson said, are highly suspect.

I am not sure how natural competitions are run abroad but many times here only the winners are tested as the promoters do not want to pay the expense. There was a thread today that refers to competitors in a natural competition. He specifically states how juiced they all were.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/7855999-post1.html

Some natural competitions here not even the winners are tested. It is kind of like the honor system.
 
Nelson Montana said:
O.J. says he didn't do it. Any reason not to believe him?


how about board gossip where one group or person, character assassinates another

a just observer WONT judge till they directly engage
 
NEWS FLASH classic bodybuilders were the first ones to use steroids.
So this " classic" section in the shows is just a polite way of saying
" low dosage".

Personally I like the low dosage look myself
 
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Im fairly certain this guy has had some serious bacne issues, look closey at his shoulders. Probably natty for about 6 months out of the year like the rest of us.

Tatyana said:
Kerry Napier, another British nattie pro


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are you on steroids?
"I am not injecting as we speak so no I am not acutally taking steroids."


So are you going to take steroids for this contest? " Well the contest is exactly at 7pm so no I will not be taking steroids at 7pm"

SOUNDS ALL NATURAL TO ME!
 
Tatyana said:
One of my favs, Tony Montalbano

Also UK, and a British Champion.

He promotes one of the NPA (Natural Physique Association) which is natural for life, and has always been really encouraging with my participation in the NPA.

Lee has coached him as well, I think I will ask him for some more comp pics, these are all photoshoots for Maximuscle.


bodyflex117003.jpg


7D7X1188.jpg

NATTY
 
Tatyana said:
Layne Norton, another American Nattie Pro.

He is starting a natural column in Muscular Development in April.

Has a PhD in physiology specialising in muscle growth.

sickme.jpg


obliques.jpg


NATTY using supps very heavily
 
so tatyana, basically everyone is calling these guys alleged "nattyness" as suspect
how do you respond?
 
those guys all look great, and if I looked like that natty the first thing id be thinking is, well just how big could i get with steroids.
 
OMEGA said:
how about board gossip where one group or person, character assassinates another

a just observer WONT judge till they directly engage


What are you saying bro? I'm not a just person because the evidence I see is to the contrary of what I'm being told?

I'm not assassinating anyone's character. I'm just saying that just because someone says something doesn't mean I have to blindly believe it. To do otherwise can prove foolish. Or worse. (Though in this case, who cares really).

Believe me, I've seen some genetic marvels. And I know the power of the correct and consistent use of supplements. But a couple of these guys would have to be complete freaks to be lifetime natty. Not accusing them otherwise. Just a little dubious, that's all.
 
Nelson Montana said:
What are you saying bro?


I am not saying anything, expect something on the principle of the matter.

I learned the hard way to not believe till you actually engage the person in question OR see due process which shows someone is guilty.

I am not directing anything towards you, but rather using an example we both suffered from to demonstrate the idea
 
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OMEGA said:
I am just saying anything, expect something on the principle of the matter.

I learned the hard way to not believe till you actually engage the person in question OR see due process which shows someone is guilty.

I am not directing anything towards you, but rather using an example with both suffered from to demonstrate the idea

So you're saying you think O.J. didn't do it ? :)
 
I had a roomate who was 100% natural other than OTC supps (creatine/amp 02/whey and more vitamins than I could imagine taking), at the same time I was "on".

We trained together and he hadn't been training for 3 months prior. Over 12 weeks (my cycle length) he gained as much as I did doing the same workouts and we ate together most of the time as well. This fool looked AMAZING, almost everyday at the college gym someone would ask him if he was juicing. The poor bastard almost lost his GF because she thought he was cycling (she knew I was).
.
Based on this experience I don't even attempt to guess whos natty or not. I would think they were juicing if I saw them but that's because I have horrible genetics for size (great for lean mass and cutting) and think that everyone with size must be juicing.

JUICE or NO JUICE those guys obviously earned what they have so my hat's off to them, they all look great.
 
I have some friends that say to everybody in the gym that they only take protein and creatine but they make their gear orders at the same time than me...
This is a common procedure with a lot of bodybuilders.
 
Tatyana said:
A few more of the British Lads, top amateurs.

Glen Danbury, wish I had some recent comp pics from this year, he looked awesome

Glendanbury2.jpg



GlenDanbury.jpg



And Fivos Averokiou, I also need a few more pics of him, he goes up against the gear boys all the time


This is him 7 weeks out last year

7weeksout.jpg
Just my 2 cents, but "The Naturals " is just too decieving. Having been a gym rat for 10 years, and having many many friends who have competed, I think it is a disjustice to many of those looking into body building for the first time to look at these photos as Natural. Thats how supplement companies move soo much of the prohormone trash etc.( obviously excluding aminos , creatine , etc.)) . You have a pic of some guy who is roided out on an ad for some crap supplement. People just getting into the weight room see this obvious fraud and spend alot of money trying to achieve something that just isnt possible for 99% of us out there. Unless someone has been "Natural" there whole life, dont try to sell me on it . I DONT doubt , some of these could fit this bill, but not all of them. Again its a dis-service to the natural sport and to all those would be bodybuilders just getting into the weight room and the masses of what works , what doesnt .
 
i like you tatyana, but im with the majority on this one, these guys are hitting the sauce, at least overdosed trt regimen where they could still say they're natty. i have a buddy who don't even lift weights, he's overweight and on hrt, his docs giving him 600mg every week of cyp. that's outrageous, and he could technically say he's natural cause a docs giving it to him and he's not taking anything illegal. so run with that. 600mg a week one could do anything with. get big, and then cut and look like those guys easily.
 
Having been falsely acused my whole life I hate to say anyone else is on. (I am now on HRT and no one acuses me. I am not at my peak thou) So I am going to give the benefit of a doubt to all except the first guy. NO WAY. You can't get that dry AND big natural.
 
"natural" at time of comp (NPC is 12 months before the comp).

i did not know they did a lie detector, but they do but it only goes back 12 months so natuaral is soooooooooooo misleading

from npc mile hi...
TESTING PROCEDURE: As a condition of acceptance into this event, each contestant must pass a thorough 45-minute polygraph examination proving that he/she has not engaged in the use of anabolic steroids, clenbuterol or non-over-the counter diuretics at any time during the preceding 12 calendar months or for competitor's entire life if entered in the Drug Free for Life Class .
 
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Fivos could most definitely be natural. As great as he looks, it's just "natural" looking. That first guy -- Lee...sorry Tat, I think he's full of it. Nobody has striated glutes naturally.
 
jagerbombme said:
he could technically say he's natural cause a docs giving it to him and he's not taking anything illegal

I wasn't aware the BBing scene redefined what natural meant.

Getting gear from a doctor does not make you natural. You're confusing "natural" with "illegal activity".



:cow:
 
no way are those guys natural what a bunch of crap....i cant stand people that lie about it...some of the guys in those pics are freaks..no way natural....your not natural if you have juiced for 10 years out of your life but have been clean for a year.....what really pisses me off is that im far from natural and i dont even come close to looking like that!
 
Natural bodybuilding stateside is just full of gear users who know how to beat the drug tests. There is no "natural" bodybuilding in these parts.
 
Please forgive me for not thinking for one single second that ANY of those guys are nattie. MAYBE this guy isn't juiced to the gills but hes definantly diureticed out the ass, which is much more dangerous than gear. I can take tren and get that lean and not worry about destroying myself with diuretics.

What a load of crap. This thread name should be "The Natural Liars."

Although I like sammoths assumption :).
 
JeremyD said:
Natural bodybuilding stateside is just full of gear users who know how to beat the drug tests. There is no "natural" bodybuilding in these parts.


they say they polygraph these guys....it just depends whether they actually want to know or not i guess...
 
I knew this thread would be controversial.

I haven't put up pics of Rob Hope yet, and he looks freaky too.

I get accused of using all the time as well, I take it as a compliment :)

I could also put up pics of guys that have juiced to the gills and look like they train natty, it does work both ways.

I was first questioned if I was natty after this competition.

My bodyfat is still not low enough on my legs, and I hadn't used any OTC fat burners nor herbal diuretics.

xback.jpg


jpeg-rippedatNPASE.jpg


rippedback2.jpg


I am a lot bigger now, and I am sure I will be tested again this year.

At least with women, use is sometimes more obvious.

Progress pics from about two months ago, and I have been going through a growth spurt.

DSC010032.jpg


DSC010012.jpg



dsc010143.jpg


dsc010123.jpg


Competitive BBing is all about illusion. A lot of these guys do not weigh a huge amount, nor are they very tall (with the exception of Pete Chown)

The natural bodybuilding scene is really big in the UK.

Accusations of gear use has had officials wait for people to take a sample in the off season.

Quite a few are named and shamed publically.

So yes there are people that cheat. And there are also people who use steroids/fat-burners so that they don't have to diet or train all that well.

I also know Lee is very contraversial, but he has ate, slept and breathed bodybuilding for the last 20+ years.
 
how big can the natural BB scene be in england when its legal to use aas there.. i think it would be rather tempting to anyone in the BB scene..
 
OMEGA said:
lolollo

how did he save the mission?

He asked me to show her my ass and delts, which were a little swollen, and then he showed her his and she was able to tell the difference. I guess he could have been taking orals but she knows nothing about juice. The only way she knew I was on is because dumb ass told her.
 
JimBoy said:
He asked me to show her my ass and delts, which were a little swollen, and then he showed her his and she was able to tell the difference. I guess he could have been taking orals but she knows nothing about juice. The only way she knew I was on is because dumb ass told her.


you were the sacrificial lamb ololo
 
Tatyana said:
I knew this thread would be controversial.



I am a lot bigger now, and I am sure I will be tested again this year.

At least with women, use is sometimes more obvious.

Progress pics from about two months ago, and I have been going through a growth spurt.

DSC010032.jpg


DSC010012.jpg



dsc010143.jpg


dsc010123.jpg


Competitive BBing is all about illusion. A lot of these guys do not weigh a huge amount, nor are they very tall (with the exception of Pete Chown)
Oh my lord I got to the third pic and damn near passed out ! :bigkiss:
 
xrsist said:
how big can the natural BB scene be in england when its legal to use anabolic androgenic steroids there.. i think it would be rather tempting to anyone in the BB scene..

Where ever there is less prohibition, something odd happens, the opposite to what you expect happens

For example, Holland and liberal drug laws, there are far fewer Dutch people that smoke dope or use, most of the junkies, pot heads and every weekend x users are foreign nationals.

The Scandinavian countries have great sex education, they even use 'porn' for discussion. Teen pregnancies and STDs are lowest in these countries.

Heroin-user have been given clean and safe shooting galleries in Germany and Switzerland, the number of junkies has decreased.

The same happened (and crime went down), when they did the same in Mersyside in England (this has been trialed twice in England, same result, the moral majority hates it enough to end it though).
 
so your saying in england most of the aas users are foreign nationals?

this wouldnt suprise me actually
 
Tatyana said:
I knew this thread would be controversial.

I haven't put up pics of Rob Hope yet, and he looks freaky too.

I get accused of using all the time as well, I take it as a compliment :)

I could also put up pics of guys that have juiced to the gills and look like they train natty, it does work both ways.

I was first questioned if I was natty after this competition.

My bodyfat is still not low enough on my legs, and I hadn't used any OTC fat burners nor herbal diuretics.

xback.jpg


jpeg-rippedatNPASE.jpg


rippedback2.jpg


I am a lot bigger now, and I am sure I will be tested again this year.

At least with women, use is sometimes more obvious.

Progress pics from about two months ago, and I have been going through a growth spurt.

DSC010032.jpg


DSC010012.jpg



dsc010143.jpg


dsc010123.jpg


Competitive BBing is all about illusion. A lot of these guys do not weigh a huge amount, nor are they very tall (with the exception of Pete Chown)

The natural bodybuilding scene is really big in the UK.

Accusations of gear use has had officials wait for people to take a sample in the off season.

Quite a few are named and shamed publically.

So yes there are people that cheat. And there are also people who use steroids/fat-burners so that they don't have to diet or train all that well.

I also know Lee is very contraversial, but he has ate, slept and breathed bodybuilding for the last 20+ years.



damn, you look fucking great. i love to see women in shape like that, love seeing women pumping iron in the gym. the things i would do to u..................................
 
hey tat a quick question , do you think valentina chepiga was natural when she won the ms O back in 2000 , she was 5'5 and like 135lbs
 
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This thread is not only a joke but also a slap in the face to the guys out there that are natural. Im definitely not nattie and it is obvious but I dont go around saying my 19 inch arms and 30 inch waist was built with creatine and whey. Its bullshit.
 
xrsist said:
so your saying in england most of the anabolic androgenic steroids users are foreign nationals?

this wouldnt suprise me actually

Just an observation about Holland, not even sure if there are stats.

I have no idea about AAS use and foreign nationals in the UK
 
chazk said:
hey tat a quick question , do you think valentina chepiga was natural when she won the ms O back in 2000 , she was 5'5 and like 135lbs

I would have to see pics.

I do know that I have very similar measurement and stats as some of the girlies that do use.

I have to diet a lot longer to get my quads to rip up though, and they really haven't ever been super ripped.
 
702daswoll1 said:
This thread is not only a joke but also a slap in the face to the guys out there that are natural. Im definitely not nattie and it is obvious but I dont go around saying my 19 inch arms and 30 inch waist was built with creatine and whey. Its bullshit.

So what are you saying?

You have too look scrawny, tiny and like shite to be a natural?

Competition condition is all about illusion.

You don't need chemical diuretics to get dry. If some of you would stop kicking off so much, I might have let you in on a few of the methods. Obviously, you are more interested in being right than actually finding out what some of them are doing to look so good.


IT HAS TO BE DRUGS CAUSE THAT IS THE ONLY WAY I KNOW HOW TO DO IT.

Nothing to do with genetics, hard work and a much longer period of dieting (It think you will find most naturals diet 20 - 24+ weeks).

To get to the top of your game, and then have it all dismissed as 'they must be cheating' is the slap in the face.

I will find you a few pics of gear heads that look natural.


That is more common and also a complete joke.

Some of these lads have been tested on numerous occasions, and I have seen a few of them on and off season.

I know a few of them personally, I KNOW they are not using.

I don't think any of them have 19 inch arms though

:)
 
jagerbombme said:
damn, you look fucking great. i love to see women in shape like that, love seeing women pumping iron in the gym. the things i would do to u..................................

This isn't elite in the sheets, so keep it in your pants hun
 
All true. US is the most excessively moralistic, religious country in the developed world and has extremely high abortion, teen pregnancy, high homicide rate etc. So I agree with Tat that it wouldn't necessarily follow the liberal drug laws means rampant steroid use.

For someone who has no interest in ever taking roids, and couldn't tell if someone was on them or not except in extreme cases, what do most people consider then to be best legitimate natural physique? Is Tom Venuto for example believed in his natty claims?

Tatyana said:
Where ever there is less prohibition, something odd happens, the opposite to what you expect happens

For example, Holland and liberal drug laws, there are far fewer Dutch people that smoke dope or use, most of the junkies, pot heads and every weekend x users are foreign nationals.

The Scandinavian countries have great sex education, they even use 'porn' for discussion. Teen pregnancies and STDs are lowest in these countries.

Heroin-user have been given clean and safe shooting galleries in Germany and Switzerland, the number of junkies has decreased.

The same happened (and crime went down), when they did the same in Mersyside in England (this has been trialed twice in England, same result, the moral majority hates it enough to end it though).
 
This thread has been moved a few times now. Thought the ladies might like a few pics of the lads.

I must admit, I do find the whole 'he's not natural' disbelief a bit depressing.

There are some lads I KNOW are natural and get in awesome condition.

There are several distinctions to be made in natural federations though.

There are very few that are natural for life. The NPA - Natural Physique Association in the UK is one. I think it has sister organisations around the world called the ANA (All Natural Association?).

The BNBF, WNBF, INBF (British - World - International Natural Bodybuilding Federation) have either 5, 7 or 10 years clear of use.

MuscleMania is two or three years clean.

Considering how some people jump into using AAS before they really know what they are doing, and don't keep their gains, I think this is fair.

What I would love to see, instead of the disbelief, that 'it just isn't possible', is to ask 'If they are natural and look like that, just what in the HELL are they doing?'
 
Tatyana you look great. Thanks for sharing your pictures.
I'm not calling you are anyone else a fraud. I know I couldn't get that cut and hard without serious pharmacuticals. Heck, probably not even with life threatening doseages.
By natural is the universal definition no drugs? Not diuretics, thyroid, clenbuteral, roids, testt, slin, nolva, plasma expanders, ect.?
 
Tatyana said:
Exactly. :heart:

I also noticed within the first five posts someone asked what anabolic androgenic steroids you are using.

:)


yep lol

Supps were Key as was training Method

ps

:bigkiss:
 
Powerbuilder333 said:
Tatyana you look great. Thanks for sharing your pictures.
I'm not calling you are anyone else a fraud. I know I couldn't get that cut and hard without serious pharmacuticals. Heck, probably not even with life threatening doseages.
By natural is the universal definition no drugs? Not diuretics, thyroid, clenbuteral, steroids, testt, insulin, Nolvaldex - tamoxifen citrate - , plasma expanders, ect.?

A good rule of thumb for natural is seven years clean.

My last coach called me one of the few 'true naturals' she knows.

As I mentioned there are a few natural for life federations.

There are many ways to dehydrate naturally without diuretics, not all of them are necessarily that much safer, and you do have to be careful with whatever method you use.

Most of the natural federations use the IOC (International Olympic Committee) and WADA (World Anti-Doping Association) policies.

Here are the WNBF/INBF (world/international natural bodybuilding federation) list of banned substances.

In all honesty, you have to be pretty clued up, as even things like herbs like ephedra and the related sida cordifolia (ephedra alkaloids) and some flu strength cold medicines with pseudoephedrine are not allowed or could have you test positive.


2008 LIST OF WNBF BANNED SUBSTANCES

(Effective 1/1/08)

The following substances and related compounds are banned by the World Natural Bodybuilding Federation (WNBF) and their use constitutes grounds for dismissal from WNBF Pro Natural Competitions and suspension from membership privileges in the organization for a period of seven years from the failure date. This list is effective January 1, 2007.

ANABOLIC STEROIDS. All Anabolic Steroids, including but not limited to bolasterone, boldenone, chioroxomesterone (dyhdrochlormethyltesterone), clostebol, fluoxymesterone, mesterolone, methandienone, methyltestosterone, nandrolone, norethandrolone, oxandrolone, oxymetholone, stanozolol, testosterone and all other related compounds, are strictly banned.

TESTOSTERONE (injections, patches, gels) in any form or for any reason, even if under a doctor’s prescription.

TESTOSTERONE/EPITESTOSTERONE RATIO. The T/E ratio is used to measure the presence of exogenous testosterone, or illicit elevation of testosterone levels. A T/E ratio in excess of 6/1 is ruled as positive, no matter what the cause. Note: Should the use of any substance cause an elevated T/E ratio in excess of the 6/1 limit, the athlete will be ruled as positive (failure).

GROWTH HORMONES (PHARMACEUTICAL HGH, HCG and any other related compounds). Oral, spray or sublingual GH compounds of pharmaceutical origin are banned effective January 1, 2001.

HORMONES, PROHORMONES AND ALL PRECURSORS & METABOLITES, DERIVATIVES & RELATED COMPOUNDS. The use of any hormone (injectable, oral, sublingual or otherwise) for bodybuilding purposes – including insulin – is prohibited.

•All hormonal precursors (DHEA, androstenedione; 19-norandrostenedione; androstenediol; 5-AD; androstene-TRIONE; 17-androdione; etc.) are banned effective January 1, 2000. (Includes Novadex, Superdrol, Halodrol, Methyl-1, etc.)

NOTE: 7-Keto DHEA is NO LONGER banned (effective 6/1/07) by the WNBF.

•All other additional hormonal supplements (6-OXO; 6-OXO-androstenetrione; 2a,17a-dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one; 3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene; 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione; 3-Alpha (5a-androstane-3a,17b-diol); etc.) have been identified as prohormonal in nature as of January 1, 2004, and are banned effective January 1, 2004. (Includes Novadex, Superdrol, Halodrol, Methyl-1, Forza-T, etc.)

•Fat-Burning Prohormone Derivatives such as 3,17-dihydroxy-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one (A7-D), and 3,17-dihydroxy-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one diethylcarbonate (A7-E) are banned effective January 1, 2007. (Includes Hot Rox, Fahrenheit, etc.)

•Pro-Steroids are banned as of January 1, 2000. They are marketed as not being prohormonal, but they ARE. (Includes 1-Test, etc.)

•Prescription Thyroid Hormone Medication when used for bodybuilding purposes is banned.

•The presence of any banned substance in the urine (i.e., nandrolone, etc.), no matter how it arrived, is ruled as a positive (failure).

NOTE: BE SURE TO CHECK ALL INGREDIENTS LISTS OF SUPPLEMENTS BEFORE USING THEM! (E-mail questions to [email protected].)

PRESCRIPTION DIURETICS. Any and all prescription weight-loss substances and diuretics used for bodybuilding purposes, even when physician-prescribed, are banned by the WNBF.

EPHEDRINE, EPHEDRA AND ALL RELATED COMPOUNDS are banned effective July 1, 2004.

PSYCHOMOTOR STIMULANTS such as amphetamines, speed, cocaine or other stimulants when used for bodybuilding purposes.

MUSCLE IMPLANTS OF ANY KIND are strictly prohibited. BREAST IMPLANTS for females are not banned.

CHEMICALS/DRUGS FOR THE PURPOSE OF DECEIVING OR PASSING THE POLYGRAPH OR URINE TEST.

CLENBUTEROL AND GHB (since 1992).

ANY ILLEGAL OR ILLICIT BODYBUILDING DRUG OR SUBSTANCE AS DECREED BY U.S. GOVERNMENT AGENCIES.

ANY FDA-BANNED SUBSTANCE, EXCEPT IF SPECIFICALLY OTHERWISE INDICATED.

ANY IOC- OR WADA-BANNED SUBSTANCE, EXCEPT IF SPECIFICALLY OTHERWISE INDICATED.
 
Props to anyone who can look that great while passing a drug test for such a comprehesive list of substances.
I believe the IOC has banned most asthma medications (albuteral, serevent,ect.) which leaves me out from the get go. Not that I have any natural bodybuilding aspirations.
 
xrsist said:
so your saying in england most of the anabolic androgenic steroids users are foreign nationals?

this wouldnt suprise me actually
Like Americans having a place in mexico just to juice. I do believe Layne Norton is natural but most of the other guys not so much. The #1 thing to being a good bodybuilder is good genetics any of the top guys natural or not are going to be blessed in the genetics department. However in my opnion there is a certain look that can only be achieved with AAS some those guys have that look hence me questionin there natural status.
 
Tatyana said:
A good rule of thumb for natural is seven years clean.

My last coach called me one of the few 'true naturals' she knows.

As I mentioned there are a few natural for life federations.

There are many ways to dehydrate naturally without diuretics, not all of them are necessarily that much safer, and you do have to be careful with whatever method you use.

Most of the natural federations use the IOC (International Olympic Committee) and WADA (World Anti-Doping Association) policies.

Here are the WNBF/INBF (world/international natural bodybuilding federation) list of banned substances.

In all honesty, you have to be pretty clued up, as even things like herbs like ephedra and the related sida cordifolia (ephedra alkaloids) and some flu strength cold medicines with pseudoephedrine are not allowed or could have you test positive.


2008 LIST OF WNBF BANNED SUBSTANCES

(Effective 1/1/08)

The following substances and related compounds are banned by the World Natural Bodybuilding Federation (WNBF) and their use constitutes grounds for dismissal from WNBF Pro Natural Competitions and suspension from membership privileges in the organization for a period of seven years from the failure date. This list is effective January 1, 2007.

ANABOLIC STEROIDS. All Anabolic Steroids, including but not limited to bolasterone, boldenone, chioroxomesterone (dyhdrochlormethyltesterone), clostebol, fluoxymesterone, mesterolone, methandienone, methyltestosterone, nandrolone, norethandrolone, oxandrolone, oxymetholone, stanozolol, testosterone and all other related compounds, are strictly banned.

TESTOSTERONE (injections, patches, gels) in any form or for any reason, even if under a doctor’s prescription.

TESTOSTERONE/EPITESTOSTERONE RATIO. The T/E ratio is used to measure the presence of exogenous testosterone, or illicit elevation of testosterone levels. A T/E ratio in excess of 6/1 is ruled as positive, no matter what the cause. Note: Should the use of any substance cause an elevated T/E ratio in excess of the 6/1 limit, the athlete will be ruled as positive (failure).

GROWTH HORMONES (PHARMACEUTICAL human growth hormone - somatropin - , HCG - human chorionic gonadotropin - and any other related compounds). Oral, spray or sublingual gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - compounds of pharmaceutical origin are banned effective January 1, 2001.

HORMONES, PROHORMONES AND ALL PRECURSORS & METABOLITES, DERIVATIVES & RELATED COMPOUNDS. The use of any hormone (injectable, oral, sublingual or otherwise) for bodybuilding purposes – including insulin – is prohibited.

•All hormonal precursors (DHEA, androstenedione; 19-norandrostenedione; androstenediol; 5-AD; androstene-TRIONE; 17-androdione; etc.) are banned effective January 1, 2000. (Includes Novadex, Superdrol, Halodrol, Methyl-1, etc.)

NOTE: 7-Keto DHEA is NO LONGER banned (effective 6/1/07) by the WNBF.

•All other additional hormonal supplements (6-OXO; 6-OXO-androstenetrione; 2a,17a-dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one; 3, 17-keto-etiochol-triene; 1,4,6-androstatriene-3,17-dione; 3-Alpha (5a-androstane-3a,17b-diol); etc.) have been identified as prohormonal in nature as of January 1, 2004, and are banned effective January 1, 2004. (Includes Novadex, Superdrol, Halodrol, Methyl-1, Forza-T, etc.)

•Fat-Burning Prohormone Derivatives such as 3,17-dihydroxy-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one (A7-D), and 3,17-dihydroxy-delta-5-etiocholane-7-one diethylcarbonate (A7-E) are banned effective January 1, 2007. (Includes Hot Rox, Fahrenheit, etc.)

•Pro-Steroids are banned as of January 1, 2000. They are marketed as not being prohormonal, but they ARE. (Includes 1-Test, etc.)

•Prescription Thyroid Hormone Medication when used for bodybuilding purposes is banned.

•The presence of any banned substance in the urine (i.e., nandrolone, etc.), no matter how it arrived, is ruled as a positive (failure).

NOTE: BE SURE TO CHECK ALL INGREDIENTS LISTS OF SUPPLEMENTS BEFORE USING THEM! (E-mail questions to [email protected].)

PRESCRIPTION DIURETICS. Any and all prescription weight-loss substances and diuretics used for bodybuilding purposes, even when physician-prescribed, are banned by the WNBF.

EPHEDRINE, EPHEDRA AND ALL RELATED COMPOUNDS are banned effective July 1, 2004.

PSYCHOMOTOR STIMULANTS such as amphetamines, speed, cocaine or other stimulants when used for bodybuilding purposes.

MUSCLE IMPLANTS OF ANY KIND are strictly prohibited. BREAST IMPLANTS for females are not banned.

CHEMICALS/DRUGS FOR THE PURPOSE OF DECEIVING OR PASSING THE POLYGRAPH OR URINE TEST.

CLENBUTEROL AND GHB - gamma hydroxybutyric - (since 1992).

ANY ILLEGAL OR ILLICIT BODYBUILDING DRUG OR SUBSTANCE AS DECREED BY U.S. GOVERNMENT AGENCIES.

ANY FDA-BANNED SUBSTANCE, EXCEPT IF SPECIFICALLY OTHERWISE INDICATED.

ANY IOC- OR WADA-BANNED SUBSTANCE, EXCEPT IF SPECIFICALLY OTHERWISE INDICATED.

How do they test at these shows? I know a few friends that compete in natural federations and the testing policies are a complete joke. It is all well in good to have natural org but the sure as hell better have a good testing system in place and test everyone one not just the winner and a random.
 
superqt4u2nv said:
How do they test at these shows? I know a few friends that compete in natural federations and the testing policies are a complete joke. It is all well in good to have natural org but the sure as hell better have a good testing system in place and test everyone one not just the winner and a random.

Defo not perfect.

One thing that works in the UK is that it is a VERY VERY small community.

Everyone knows nearly everyone who competes.

One example of someone being caught in the natural feddies. I think he had placed third.


Hello All

I'm back on line at home at last! Please expect a number of e-mails from me
over the next week or so, but the first one is about a disqualification of a
competitor at last month's South West Championships.
Please read!
Many thanks to all for your support - and Best Wishes to all!

Bye for now

Michael
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

NPA Statement – August 2007.

On Sunday July 22nd the NPA South West Championships were held in Taunton.
The competition was attended by officials from UK Sports, who conducted a
number of drug tests, on behalf of the NPA, of course, as they do at all NPA
competitions. Without our drug-testing programme we simply cannot promote
ourselves as a Life-time Natural Association. In a Utopian World of
Bodybuilding, all competitors would be 100% Lifetime clean and natural –
like they all should be!
While I personally will always promote the NPA as a Lifetime Natural
Association, as that is what we strive to be, I am not so naïve to think
that we will never have anyone on-stage who might be a cheat, despite our
best efforts.
Its always a possibility that someone may have taken some banned substances
in the past yet they still sign the NPA membership form stating they are
clean – and still go ahead and compete. Why they do so, and put at risk
their ‘good’ name is beyond me, to be honest. I would have thought that a
person who had taken banned substances, whether it be 5 days, months, or
years ago, would be honest with themselves, and not try to cheat and gain a
hollow victory. Where’s the morals, or pride, or integrity…at the end of the
day, you have to look in the mirror…in more ways than one.

If you have taken a banned substance for no matter how long or short a
period then you cannot compete with the NPA, it’s as simple as that! If you
haven’t been tested and think you have got away with it…then think again.
There’s always someone out there who is willing to stand up and speak, in an
effort to keep our sport clean, and also to help keep the good name of the
Natural Physique Association.

So, back to the NPA South West Championships.
In the Novice class, 4 competitors lined up, a very competitive class of a
very high standard.
Placing in third was 26 year old Lee Riva. From my own show notes, ‘Great
back, outstanding abs and delts, superb condition’. Lee was impressive, no
doubt about that. Encouraged by Lee Kemp and myself, and from his showing in
Taunton, Lee decided shortly after to enter the NPA Heart of England
competition four weeks later.

Eight days after the competition allegations were posted on one of the
Bodybuilding Forums, stating that there were cheats in the NPA and that one
of them had indeed competed in the NPA South West Championships. Subsequent
e-mails and phone calls were made, and as a result Lee Riva was named as a
competitor in the South West who shouldn’t have been in the contest due to
substances he was alleged to have taken. Further subsequent phone
conversations were made, between Lee Riva and Lee Kemp (the Doping Control
Officer of the NPA), and between Lee Riva and myself. The allegations were
put to Lee Riva, and he admitted that he has, in the past, taken banned
substances.

On speaking to Lee Riva, I invited him to contribute to this statement, and
the following is what he said:

To whom it may concern,

I would like to take this opportunity to explain myself and clear up a few
things.
As you probably well know, I did enter a drug free competition last month
and then openly admitted I had taken ‘gear’ about 3 years ago.
It was a mistake in many ways, first because I had taken the stuff in an
attempt to try it out, and disagreeing with it almost immediately, but
mainly for taking part in a drug free competition where so many drug-free
athletes had to slog their guts out, only to compete against a cheat.
For these reasons I am truly sorry. At the time I felt that, as I had only
tried it and had not even completed a cycle, enough to show any difference,
then the state of body would still be drug-free and almost clean. But I have
learnt that honesty is the best way and for those who think they may get
away with it – You Won’t!
It is a valuable lesson to be learnt and I only hope others can learn from
my mistake and not go down the same road as I did
I would like to pay my sincerest apologies to my home gym, from which no-one
had a clue and for dishonouring them for entering under their established
name.
Also my deepest apologies go to the NPA for dishonouring them and giving the
Natural Physique Association a bad name. I hope nothing bad comes of this to
either party, and I cannot apologise enough for my actions.

Once again I am truly sorry.

Lee Riva
------------------------

As a consequence Lee Riva has been disqualified from the NPA South West
Championships, and banned from the NPA. The competitor who placed fourth has
been informed, and will now be acknowledged as in third place. He will also
be receiving the third place trophy, which is to be returned to the NPA.

When I spoke with Lee Riva, he expressed great regret at his actions. But
you reap what you sow, and the bottom line is he shouldn’t have even joined
the NPA in the first place. Unfortunately there are, no doubt, a lot of
people out there who have ‘dabbled’ with bodybuilding related drugs, and
have regretted it, for whatever reason.
However, if you have done so, whether it be weeks or years ago, then you
simply cannot class yourself as a True Natural for Life bodybuilder, and
subsequently you cannot compete with the NPA! Be honest with yourself, have
a sense of integrity, and do not try to cheat, even if you are sure you will
pass a drug test.

I know that between the work done by Lee Kemp, UK Sports, and myself, that
we do our very best to keep the sport clean, but we can’t do it all. Both
Lee and myself have acted on numerous occasions on information given – this
was one of them, and it has indeed ‘outed’ a cheat. There are a number of
people who will not be allowed NPA membership on information given, and both
Lee and myself will no doubt deal with more cases relating to the unpleasant
side of the sport.

For Lee Riva himself, he has to live with his actions – it is a shame he
chose to compete with the NPA in the first place, and now he has to deal
with the shame this is going to bring him.

To all NPA members and supporters, I thank you for your support, and rest
assured that the NPA will do its very best to keep this great sport clean.

Michael Phillips
Secretary
Natural Physique Association
August 12th 2007
 
I see a "natural" bodybuilder can use some stuff
IGF
PGF2
insulin (if he claims to be diabetic)
200mg of test a week keeping under the 6/1 ratio
T-3 (with doctors perscription)to get ripped
plus letro ,arimidex and anti estrogens to get dry
plus synthol is not banned so he can inject oil into his body

Look like even " naturals" can still use drugs and be called " natural"
 
the pics of Glen Danbury look believable (as far as being nattie)

the others just seem to either have too much lean mass and/or WAY TOO STRIATED to be 100% nattie

good post & pics though
 
chazk said:
I see a "natural" bodybuilder can use some stuff
IGF
PGF2
insulin (if he claims to be diabetic)
200mg of test a week keeping under the 6/1 ratio
T-3 (with doctors perscription)to get ripped
plus Femera - letrozole - ,arimidex and anti estrogens to get dry
plus synthol is not banned so he can inject oil into his body

Look like even " naturals" can still use drugs and be called " natural"

Where did you get that from?

None of the substances you listed are allowed.

Doctors must be seriously dodgy in the States, cause to say someone is diabetic or hypothyroid without them being so could have you struck from being able to practice.

I don't think the risk would be worth it, there is not that much money in BBing.

Implants (besides breast implants) are banned.


I think I read recently that Americans are spending something like 30 billion a year on diet supplements, and only 1 billion on actual physical fitness, gym memberships etc.

Sort of says it all.

You want the drugs and you think that is the only way.

I am always shocked at the drug advertisements on the telly when I am in the States. Personally, I think that sort of media exposure of drugs has had a really weird impact on your culture.
 
Acela said:
the pics of Glen Danbury look believable (as far as being nattie)

the others just seem to either have too much lean mass and/or WAY TOO STRIATED to be 100% nattie

good post & pics though

He was a few weeks out from a comp.

I am going to have to find his comp pics, he won his class, I saw some of the pics in a British BBing mag, he looked absolutely AMAZING. Tiny waist, great taper, great sweep on his quads................

Did you see how striated I got? :artist:
 
Tatyana said:
He was a few weeks out from a comp.

I am going to have to find his comp pics, he won his class, I saw some of the pics in a British BBing mag, he looked absolutely AMAZING. Tiny waist, great taper, great sweep on his quads................

Did you see how striated I got? :artist:
You had amazing pics!

Any update?
 
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