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Hair Loss, Parts I, II, and more

Hi Maximus,
First of all it's Buffdoc, NOT Puffdoc (you really know how to ask for assistance! ;-) Sorry it took me so long to answer.
Actually, most of the questions are answered in one form or another in my posts earlier in the thread. But there are some misconceptions you have that I'll try to remedy.
First off, minoxidil does NOT work by inhibiting conversion to DHT (it is an extremely weak 5-AR inhibitor) It is a potassium channel opener. It's exact mechanism is unknown, but it may have to do with changes in blood flow, temperature, or a direct effect on the hair.
Also, you state with certainty that finasteride will decrease DHT levels in BB's to the point that gains will be affected. This has not been shown. In fact, we don't really even know if finasteride will keep DHT levels down within the normal range when BB's are using high doses of test. The data accumulated has been in men with "normal range" levels of test, NOT the supraphysiological levels achieved when juicing! Keep in mind also, that testosterone may be the biggy at the myocyte or muscle cell, and NOT DHT. So the gains thing doesn't hold up well.
However, finasteride WILL inhibit the formation of any 5-alpha reduced intermediate, whether from test, or any other androgen than undergoes 5-alpha reduction (eg, nandrolone to DHN). It's not exclusively testosterone. I'm not sure what the metabolic/enzymatic pathway of boldenone is.
You are wrong again in your statement about nizoral and minoxidil preventing the binding of DHT to the hair follicle. We are not sure what Nizoral does, but we know minoxidil has nothing to do w/ DHT binding to follicles. So the argument about using this combo instead of finasteride for the given reason is illogical. That being said, I'm all for Nizoral during cycling, use it myself.
Now, to answer your numbered questions above:
#1 No, they don't make sense (sorry;-)
#2 Sometimes proscar DOES work frontally, it's just been shown to work better and more predictably in the crown
#3 This question doesn't really follow given your previous question, but again, it MAY help frontally
#4 My friend, the reasoning here is just not present. First of all, as I have posted numerous times on numerous threads on this board, neither minox or finast can be used effectively in an intermittent fashion. Three things are required for androgenetic alopecia to occur:
1)genetic predisposition
2)presence of androgen (the most proven being DHT)
3)passage of time
If you are prone to balding, or are concerned about hair loss, get on finasteride (preferably with minoxidil), titrate your dose of finasteride down if you have sides, and STAY ON IT! Cycle or no cycle! If it does provide you with protection, and you stop it, your hair counts will go to where they would have been genetically if you'd never used the hair loss meds at all. Don't worry; other, better meds will be along soon. But once again, to anyone who reads this: intermittent use of minxidil and/or finasteride during cycles only is a waste of time and $$! Your own "normal" non-cycling levels of androgen are more than enough to facilitate male pattern baldness if you are so disposed. If you're not, 2 grams a week aren't going to affect you!
And once again, I believe a lot of the sudden hair loss people seem to experience using Fina, Wimmy, Primo, Proviron, or whatever else, is not AGA, but stress or chemical induced telogen effluvium.
 
First of all it's Buffdoc, NOT Puffdoc (you really know how to ask for assistance! ;-)

LOL sorry BUFFDOC

thank you very very much for your time. just few more questions.

1) do you belive that using finasteride will prevent further hairloss during a cycle of lets say 400mg EQ/ 500mg test per weeksince you said it prevents the conversion of test and other androgens to DHT.

2) i'm i able to use proscar instead (cheaper ) by dividing the pill into 4 sections to get good results?

3)
finasteride WILL inhibit the formation of any 5-alpha reduced intermediate, whether from test, or any other androgen than undergoes 5-alpha reduction (eg, nandrolone to DHN). It's not exclusively testosterone

this still means that finasteride will not work as well if you have an androgen that does not undergo 5-alpha reduction Such as EQ.

4)
we don't really even know if finasteride will keep DHT levels down within the normal range when BB's are using high doses of test

why do you say that? did you not say that finasteride WILL inhibit the formation of any 5-alpha reduced intermediate and DHT is one of those intermediates, so why can't you keep it down to at least normal levels?

Again, thank you very much in advance

MA
 
Buffdoc,

Just out of curiosity, do you write your own scripts for your bodybuilding endeavors? Is there any group that "polices" if you will... doctors who are suspected of foul prescription practices, or even pharmocologists? Being a doctor are you more or less free to write rx's for anything using your own judgement or can a doctor be investigated or repremanded for "foul" practice in this area? If one were to write continuing scripts for oneslelf for let's say morphine, cocaine, even pain killers, would this be noticed and by whom, and how frequently does this kind of thing take place in the medical community. I'm asking all this out of pure curiosity. I've always wondered to what extent this kind of thing goes on. thanks
 
thankgodformexico said:
Buffdoc,

Just out of curiosity, do you write your own scripts for your bodybuilding endeavors? Is there any group that "polices" if you will... doctors who are suspected of foul prescription practices, or even pharmocologists? Being a doctor are you more or less free to write rx's for anything using your own judgement or can a doctor be investigated or repremanded for "foul" practice in this area? If one were to write continuing scripts for oneslelf for let's say morphine, cocaine, even pain killers, would this be noticed and by whom, and how frequently does this kind of thing take place in the medical community. I'm asking all this out of pure curiosity. I've always wondered to what extent this kind of thing goes on. thanks

It is against the law to write controlled scripts (CII, III, IV, or V) for oneself OR for members of one's family. You can lose your medical license and/or have criminal charges brought: and believe me, it happens. This is one of the biggest problems w/ addicted physicians, they are sick, but because of prescription practices, they wind up being prosecuted or being sanctioned by the board. Therefore, many remain underground and don't get help until they are dead or close to it.
 
1) do you belive that using finasteride will prevent further hairloss during a cycle of lets say 400mg EQ/ 500mg test per weeksince you said it prevents the conversion of test and other androgens to DHT.

Yes, probably. But again, levels may be too high to be affected!

2) i'm i able to use proscar instead (cheaper ) by dividing the pill into 4 sections to get good results?

Absolutely. I use a pill cutter from the drugstore for these kinds of "conversions".

3)

this still means that finasteride will not work as well if you have an androgen that does not undergo 5-alpha reduction Such as EQ.

Probably won't do anything. But remember, EQ is much less androgenic than test, so it's probably a moot point.

4)

why do you say that? did you not say that finasteride WILL inhibit the formation of any 5-alpha reduced intermediate and DHT is one of those intermediates, so why can't you keep it down to at least normal levels?

You have to understand the kinetics of enzymatic conversions. These conversions take place at rates that are too fast to be conceptualized by the human mind. So, even if you've inhibited 70% of the 5 AR available, and you run the substrate (test or other androgen) levels up way high, the available 5-AR will be converting away, therefore higher DHT levels. I don't think anyone's studied this, but the studies with finasteride were all done on men with the usual non-cycle test levels. Cycling may run the test levels up to a point that outstrips the inhibition of 5AR.



Again, thank you very much in advance

MA [/B][/QUOTE]
 
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