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Growth and Insulin
- Thread starter Falconer
- Start date
V-SHAPE 2 said:
That is not true..............
There is no need to run slin and T-3 wille using GH you will hear that from many many people but that is basicly because most BB will say things or do things going by what others that do not know any better say or write not from years of experiance............
PRAETORIAN
New member
RE:slin and gh
Falconer, IMO and in the opinion of many top professionals...speaking from experience if you are interested in getting the most out of your gh cycle i would recommend running HGH, slin, and t3 concurrently. As is well known ...dosage dependant, gh can and will make a person insulin insensitive and although i have yet to see any scientific documentation many top BB feel gh also lowers t3 levels. As a side note..during a cycle of gh most BB are running a minimum of 1gram of test per week...or some type of stack equalling that dosage, and this definitley will lower t3 levels...so as for the gh or the anabolic lowering t3 ..it doesn't really matter...plus running 25mcg of t3 concurrently would definitely aid in anabolism from the increase in metabolic conversion of protein, carbs, and lipids....What I have experienced and have seen pros doing is 4-8 iu's (or more) per day injected usually 3-4 times thru out the day in 2 iu doses...the slin is used 1 hour after first gh injection and normally 1 iu / 10 kg bw is used....and 25mcg t3 daily...also duration of cycle usually runs 12-16 weeks..12 weeks min...
Peace
Falconer, IMO and in the opinion of many top professionals...speaking from experience if you are interested in getting the most out of your gh cycle i would recommend running HGH, slin, and t3 concurrently. As is well known ...dosage dependant, gh can and will make a person insulin insensitive and although i have yet to see any scientific documentation many top BB feel gh also lowers t3 levels. As a side note..during a cycle of gh most BB are running a minimum of 1gram of test per week...or some type of stack equalling that dosage, and this definitley will lower t3 levels...so as for the gh or the anabolic lowering t3 ..it doesn't really matter...plus running 25mcg of t3 concurrently would definitely aid in anabolism from the increase in metabolic conversion of protein, carbs, and lipids....What I have experienced and have seen pros doing is 4-8 iu's (or more) per day injected usually 3-4 times thru out the day in 2 iu doses...the slin is used 1 hour after first gh injection and normally 1 iu / 10 kg bw is used....and 25mcg t3 daily...also duration of cycle usually runs 12-16 weeks..12 weeks min...
Peace
PRAETORIAN
New member
RE: Mr Techno
Well ..if you really want to get technical ...i would have to agree no slin is not a must...that is if you dont mind overworking your pancreas and becoming insulin insensitive....if you truly want to maximize your gains though while doing gh...which is what i assume most bb want ..then yes slin IS a must!
Peace
Well ..if you really want to get technical ...i would have to agree no slin is not a must...that is if you dont mind overworking your pancreas and becoming insulin insensitive....if you truly want to maximize your gains though while doing gh...which is what i assume most bb want ..then yes slin IS a must!
Peace
PRAETORIAN
New member
re: gh and slin
INSULIN AND GROWTH HORMONE
Growth hormone (GH) is one of the most sought after bodybuilding drugs due to its' legendary abilities to strip off body fat and increase muscle mass. The former is
accomplished through direct lipolysis (fat release from adipocytes), which GH does to an incredible degree. Muscle mass acquisition is accomplished through: the direct
stimulation of protein synthesis, increasing amino acid uptake by muscle cells, and by greatly stimulating IGF-1 synthesis in the liver. It is this last point that is of interest to us
because it is the main anabolic mechanism for GH, and it is also where insulin comes in to play. More than half of GHs' anabolic effect is due to IGF-1 production, but
unfortunately this is quite often wasted. This is because IGF-1 has an extremely short half life in the bloodstream, so it usually doesn't reach many target tissues (muscles
for our interest) to exert maximum anabolic effect. To rectify this situation, insulin can be used to increase the amount of an IGF-1 binding protein (specifically IGF1-BP3) that
actually helps IGF-1 to reach the muscles and exert its' extreme anabolism. Insulin also reduces the amount of "bad" IGF1 BP's, (BP's 2 and 4) that would normally interfere
with IGF-1 uptake and use by muscle. To say that there is a synergistic effect between insulin and GH doesn't do the combination justice. It makes me shudder to think of the
hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on GH, without using it to the maximum anabolic potential. From a fat loss perspective, GH is incredible. It should directly negate the
lipogenic effect of insulin, leaving you with one KICK ASS combination.
Just an FYI...from a post i put up already on the subject of slin!
Peace
INSULIN AND GROWTH HORMONE
Growth hormone (GH) is one of the most sought after bodybuilding drugs due to its' legendary abilities to strip off body fat and increase muscle mass. The former is
accomplished through direct lipolysis (fat release from adipocytes), which GH does to an incredible degree. Muscle mass acquisition is accomplished through: the direct
stimulation of protein synthesis, increasing amino acid uptake by muscle cells, and by greatly stimulating IGF-1 synthesis in the liver. It is this last point that is of interest to us
because it is the main anabolic mechanism for GH, and it is also where insulin comes in to play. More than half of GHs' anabolic effect is due to IGF-1 production, but
unfortunately this is quite often wasted. This is because IGF-1 has an extremely short half life in the bloodstream, so it usually doesn't reach many target tissues (muscles
for our interest) to exert maximum anabolic effect. To rectify this situation, insulin can be used to increase the amount of an IGF-1 binding protein (specifically IGF1-BP3) that
actually helps IGF-1 to reach the muscles and exert its' extreme anabolism. Insulin also reduces the amount of "bad" IGF1 BP's, (BP's 2 and 4) that would normally interfere
with IGF-1 uptake and use by muscle. To say that there is a synergistic effect between insulin and GH doesn't do the combination justice. It makes me shudder to think of the
hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on GH, without using it to the maximum anabolic potential. From a fat loss perspective, GH is incredible. It should directly negate the
lipogenic effect of insulin, leaving you with one KICK ASS combination.
Just an FYI...from a post i put up already on the subject of slin!
Peace
Re: re: gh and slin
Most BB realy do not know to much about IGF-1 that is a shame because the higher the IGF-1 levels are in the human body the faster a BB makes progress but insulin is not the best choice to bring dose levels up............
Not to many BB can aford to buy IGF-1 at $800.00 for 50ml or even get it for that fact............
That is why orals such has Anadrol, Dbol, Anavar work so well in attaing size and strenth so fast because they will bring the IGF-1 levels in the human body to very high levels...............
Pros use insulin because the next guy uses it, and they think because the next guy is using it he does not want to take the chance of the next guy taking any edges over him that is the only reason not because it will make him attain more muscle because orals are were the real progress comes from wille using GH and TEST not insulin................
PRAETORIAN said:
Most BB realy do not know to much about IGF-1 that is a shame because the higher the IGF-1 levels are in the human body the faster a BB makes progress but insulin is not the best choice to bring dose levels up............
Not to many BB can aford to buy IGF-1 at $800.00 for 50ml or even get it for that fact............
That is why orals such has Anadrol, Dbol, Anavar work so well in attaing size and strenth so fast because they will bring the IGF-1 levels in the human body to very high levels...............
Pros use insulin because the next guy uses it, and they think because the next guy is using it he does not want to take the chance of the next guy taking any edges over him that is the only reason not because it will make him attain more muscle because orals are were the real progress comes from wille using GH and TEST not insulin................
Read this thread, and you can decide for yourself who is right:
http://boards.elitefitness.com/foru...d=162170&perpage=20&highlight=GH&pagenumber=1
Pros use insulin because GH causes insulin resistance and because it works. Anyone who has actually used insulin correctly knows that it works.
http://boards.elitefitness.com/foru...d=162170&perpage=20&highlight=GH&pagenumber=1
Pros use insulin because GH causes insulin resistance and because it works. Anyone who has actually used insulin correctly knows that it works.
PRAETORIAN
New member
RE: Ironmaster
My sentiments exactly Iron!
As i stated originally...gh will make you insulin resistant and insulin is used to alleviate this...not to mention the IGF-1 response...as well...if you look in the last 10 years and follow the average hypertropy of IFBB professionals , most who have been using gh and orals especially 17-alpha-alkalated orals ie anadrol, dbol, winstrol, etc you will see a pattern of growth we have not seen in the last 30 years. this growth spurt can only be related to one thing..which was introduced to bodybuilding around this time. Orals and gh have been used for years, so have tests of all esters, epo, etc...but with the introduction of insulin into this arena we have seen an explosion of anabolism fomerly unheard of. While true some orals may ellicit an IGF-1 response, mostly due to first pass..ie the liver,,,we have never seen this growth asociated with them alone or concurrent gh usage.
I have seen first hand what insulin can do..i have also felt first hand what it can do...and to say it is not essential while doing a gh cycle is not only misleading but incorrect and dangerous.
As a side not there has been little if any anabolism associated with direct IGF-1 usage..mainly because it is rarely used and also almost impossible to get..and not really required..in the first place.
Kudos..Iron...
Peace!
My sentiments exactly Iron!
As i stated originally...gh will make you insulin resistant and insulin is used to alleviate this...not to mention the IGF-1 response...as well...if you look in the last 10 years and follow the average hypertropy of IFBB professionals , most who have been using gh and orals especially 17-alpha-alkalated orals ie anadrol, dbol, winstrol, etc you will see a pattern of growth we have not seen in the last 30 years. this growth spurt can only be related to one thing..which was introduced to bodybuilding around this time. Orals and gh have been used for years, so have tests of all esters, epo, etc...but with the introduction of insulin into this arena we have seen an explosion of anabolism fomerly unheard of. While true some orals may ellicit an IGF-1 response, mostly due to first pass..ie the liver,,,we have never seen this growth asociated with them alone or concurrent gh usage.
I have seen first hand what insulin can do..i have also felt first hand what it can do...and to say it is not essential while doing a gh cycle is not only misleading but incorrect and dangerous.
As a side not there has been little if any anabolism associated with direct IGF-1 usage..mainly because it is rarely used and also almost impossible to get..and not really required..in the first place.
Kudos..Iron...
Peace!
