Want Huge Shoulders, Drop The Presses - Hit The Raises!!!

For all who have posted threads as too the enigma of achieving shoulder girth please allow me too share my thoughts.

First, just like any other large bodypart, the shoulder needs and can certainly handle its own separate day!! Your shoulders are involved in just about every single excersise you do!

I have for the last 5 months cut out shoulder pressing movements. I have discovered that training in a 3D fashion has greatly improved the overall symmetry and shape of my shoulders.

Simply, I incorporate Lateral raises, Front raises and Bent over rear raises and thats it. Side laterals being the king of all movements. If you bench as hard as I do, especially on Inclines, It is overkill in my opinion to incorporate an overrated movement such as shoulder presses. In fact more injuries occur performing this than any other shoulder movement.

Laterals need to be performed very strict. I do them one arm at a time w/one hand holding my squat rack and leaning slightly so that the weight pulls me away from the rack. No swing just controlled lifts slightly above shoulder level and a slow descent. This should be the premis for all lateral movements.

I would like to stress the importance of rear bent over raises. Have you ever seen a guy who looks impressive from the front and back but looses luster from the side. Remember that shoulders are multi faceted. They need to be done hard and consistantly to achieve a well rounded shoulder girdle.

I do:

6 sets of lateral starting w/ 20's for a warmup and going to 50's on my 4th
the 5th and 6th set are done on an incline bench w/ one side leaning against the bench and performing 12 strict reps a side.

4 sets of 12 rear raises w/ a wieght thats agonizing on the last 2 or 3

lastly front raises( single arm) raising up to chin level and lowering to tops of thighs to keep tension on the muscle.

Thats it. Word of caution!!! do this at least 3 days before or after doing chest. This has worked for me. My shoulders are the best part of my body. I will post pictures soon to illustrate. Hope this helps.

good post.. I agree with you with regard to experienced lifters seeking further development. However, for the beginner (0-3 yrs) I am convinved that heavy FRONT shoulder presses will give overall development to the upper body and shoulders as it is a powerful compound movement.

to a point i believe that you are right.

although you should be doing some kind of shoulder press.
Everyone is different,

good post, very informative from your own experience. I personally like to press with a camber bar to I do not strain my neck and hav a nice linear movement and then go to raises.. Your comment about rear delts is absolutely true, keep it up

Clean grip upright rows to sternum are much better IMO, strict or power version using legs to help.

It hits the rear delts and traps nicely too, especially the power version, since you lean slightly forward and the angle of pull is slightly up and back like a hnag clean. With the power version you can use some serious weight and then fight the negative down, and its a good assistance exercise for the hang clean. Also the front delts are not used much, which is good if you want to do em on the same day you do Chest work.
The results can be seen in my next batch of before and afters - serious cannonballage!

Laterals are too light

In any case the front delts are overworked IMO, you don't need to train the front delts, they will grow as is.
If you have seen my Before and afters for the last 2 months, where I hardly worked my shoudlers directly at all, you can see they still grew.

I wholeheartedly agree! Shoulder presses place more pressure on the rotator-cuff than any other exercise, thus your chances of developing a shoulder injury increase exponentially when you incorporate them into your workout -- especially on top of heavy bench presses or inclines. I found out the hard way. I jumped right into heavy overhead presses a few years ago. The result was that after a few weeks of big jumps in resistance, I started to experience sharp pains directly in my deltoid. It was caused by, luckily, nothing more than a strained tendon, and I didn't have to stay away from the gym for more than two weeks, but I've never done shoulder presses since, and I can't say I miss them. My shoulders have grown just fine without 'em.

Lateral raises, of course, will always be seen by self-proclaimed strongmen as less important, vital, or prodoctive than shoulder presses because of their status as an isolation exercise, but IMO they are the best deltoid developers out there...

I have been training for 9 years now...doing mainly only overhead presses...and my shoulders continue to get bigger and stronger.

B True

My shoulders need heavy overhead presses combined with laterals to grow, I've tried it every other way and its the only approach that works for me

shoulders

After a doing military presses i dont get anything but tired, but after a set of front raises my shoulders get a pump

My biceps get a pump from concentration curls too...and even jumping rope...doesn't mean that they are going to get big from it.

B True

Behind the neck press, and military press all the way...

I personally can't see how ONLY raises would do much for strength.


Joker

Raises of any description have done nothing for my shoulder development. I have never done front raises, rarely performed rear raises and minimal laterals, yet my shoulders are perhaps my best bodypart.

Virtually every shoulder workout see's me choosing between dumbell presses, clean and press, shrugs, militaries and very occasionally laterals.

My rear delts are fine primarily due to chins, rowing and genetics.

I need the raises rather than presses, i believe we have different people out there....

One major issue with delts how to put them into your routine , like said, most people need like three days before they can do train chest after delts and training delts with chest often will hinder doing serious overhead presses.

However someone on this board suggested to train chest and follow this up with a good amount of sets of just side and front raises and i feel this is working for me and i recommend it to people who have tried (and i mean really tried) the heavy overhead presses without desired results.

try the lateral raise machine from technogym, it allows you to use more weight than with dumbells, while the pads force you in a strict motion plane, too bad they don't have this machine at my gym

I guess it all depends on what you are looking for. It has been my experience that side laterals have increased the width of my shoulder girdle immensely. Isnt bodybuilding all about illusion??
Similar to a guy who has enormous lats. The wider the lats the thinner the waist looks. Its all an illusion. If power is what you seek, then presses maybe the way to go.

I will go back to dbel presses in a month or so to see if it really does make a difference, but dumbell only, never barbell presses again. Not worth the risk. Also, if presses are something you must do, try them at the end of your workout. Not only are you pre fatigued, but your shoulders will be sufficiently warmed up by then.

Man clean and jerks and over head presses rock. My two favorites. The've done wonders for developing my shoulders. My rear heads get all the work they need from seated rows and bent rows. I don't do any isolation movements for my rear head and they seem to be the most developed area on my shoulder. All from compound movements. Interesting....

Scaggs

punch said:

It has been my experience that side laterals have increased the width of my shoulder girdle immensely.

Click to expand...

I would agree with that. I believe that side laterals are the only excercise that hits your medial (top?) heads directly. Those make up a good portion of what would give you the "wide" look.

But for me, nothing hits the front head like overhead presses.


.02,
Joker

kingjohn said:

you can't neglect the awesome impact standing overhead presses will have on your entire shoulder girdle. raises are a nice complimentary exercise to the core pressing movements.

Click to expand...

I agree...I want to grow all over. I don't want to just work the shoulders or delts...I want to be big all freakin' over.

B True

clean grip upright rows to sternum = laterals with more weight


more weight = good!

Scaggs said:

Man clean and jerks and over head presses rock. My two favorites. The've done wonders for developing my shoulders. My rear heads get all the work they need from seated rows and bent rows. I don't do any isolation movements for my rear head and they seem to be the most developed area on my shoulder. All from compound movements. Interesting....

Scaggs

Click to expand...

agreed.

ive been on both sides of the fence, have used both raises and compound movements. though my shoulders naturally blow up (pumpwise), growth tends to occur with progressive overload via pressing or upright rows. as a gymnast in high school, alot of my early shoulder development came from handstand pushups and holding my body in positions similar to an overhead press. a gymnast's body is a direct representation of the stresses he places on it. IMO, laterals just dont cut it. too light of a weight to maintain some semblance of control, not very fast twitch (due to the light weight) vs. the amount of load i can place on my shoulders with a compound movement. but it is a good auxilliary exercise.

i think many people mistake the amount of blood they can force in a muscle for false size gains. its like, a few sets of heavy bench vs many sets of cable crossovers. one you may not even get much of a pump, vs being pumped til your skin splits....but which one actually stimulates growth more

A: the one that overloads the muscles capacity.

so to each their own. isolated muscular development with the bulk of the stress on one joint or overall strength/stability and hypertrophy through your frame via a shoulder exercise (military presses, cleans, high pulls) will allow for a much easier way to progressively overload the muscle and not put such direct stress on a single joint. its a matter of what your goal is.

IF YOU'RE NOT DOING OVERHEADS, YOU ARE CHEATING YOURSELF OUT OF SHOULDER SIZE

For me, and everyone else I know with big strong shoulders, overheads is what has built them. Laterals have been good secondary lifts for them, and thats it.

what if your delts are primary made up by slow twitch fibers...? than i guess strict front and lateral raises will do more than heavy presses....

Overhead presses are ideal for someone with fast twitch, naturally broad clavicles and relatively short arms to provide a good leverage on the overheads.....

I think that people should try to go heavy on the presses first and if it doesn't do the job do raises with a slightly higher amount of reps

I can only speak from personal experience. When I stopped doing heavy overhead presses and started w/ heavy laterals my shoulders became rounder, thicker and better balanced. That being said, I did have a considerable base to work from that evolved from years of heavy presses. Ever see someone w/ huge traps. It makes there shoulders look imense even though they may be underdeveloped. Its an illusion, perception. I also know plenty of guys who cant overhead press for shit, yet have fantastic shoulder developement.

One thing is for sure. Many of my friends have developed great shoulder symmetry and fullness w/out incorporating overhead pressing movements. I dont know of many who have done the same w/out incorporating laterals.

Vortexx said:

what if your delts are primary made up by slow twitch fibers...?

Click to expand...

dont expect much shoulder size either way then.....