Vertical Leap training thread

Thought I'd start a thread dedicated to vertical leaping, training and all related things. Seems to be a common goal of many ahletes and Basketball players

It goes without saying explosive squats should be the cornerstone of your training aiming for a 3 times bodyweight squat strength. Then you need power movements like the power clean and snatch and plyometrics to get the speed back.

Feel free to contribute to this thread with your own progress and training etc

Found this good variation of the power exercises for training your vert explosiveness. Much better than jump squats since you train your upperbody explosiveness along side your legs for a total body upward power.

http://www.ironmag.com/ct_olympic_lifts_part6_03.html


The jump snatch

This is my favorite exercise to develop lower body power. It is a modified version of the power snatch from the hang. It is modified so that there is maximum emphasis on the jumping muscles and motion.

Starting position:
Standing up
Holding the barbell with a wide grip
Feet are shoulder width
Back is tight arms are relaxed

Eccentric phase (under control, 1-2 seconds)
Lower the bar to 1-2" above your knees
Do so first by bending the knees
Bend the trunk slightly forward but do not exceed 300 or so, the less the better
Basically simulate a dipping phase for a vertical jump

Concentric phase (explosive, jump!)
Jump upward emphasizing full leg extension and ankle extension
The back should not hyperextend, it should be aligned with the knees and ankles when you jump upward
Try to jump as high as possible, imagine doing a vertical jump with a barbell in you hands

Finish position
Hold the bar overhead
The bar should be snatched directly overhead, no press-out with the arms




The key, or coaching point as I call it, is to really focus on exerting maximum force with your legs. This is similar to a jump squat but with the bar in your hands.

How heavy can you go? Pretty close to what you can snatch normally, maybe 10-15kg less (22-33lbs). Those who don't have any experience snatching should start very light and slowly increase the load as long as jumping height can be maintained. In this fashion I have managed an easy lift of 115kg (253lbs) while my best "regular" power snatch is 127,5kg (280.5lbs), both were done in the same training cycle so they can be compared. As you can see there is a slight difference, illustrating how "competitive" Olympic lifting technique is developed to permit the lifting of max loads and not necessarily to develop solely lower body power.

Just to give you a hint on what you should aim for in this lift, Pascal Caron is a world class athlete (Canadian Bobsled team, sprinter) with a 4.17 / 40, a 500lbs full squat and a 425lbs bench press. In this movement (jump snatch) he has a best of 100kg ... it is hard to call it a best because he could manage more but he would not jump as much, 100kg is the best he has done while jumping high and maintaining a lot of explosion. And most of the football players using this movement right now hover around 60-80kg for their sets. I have a figure skater doing 45-50kg (100lbs) doing sets of 5 in that fashion. The key however is not how much weight is lifted, but rather how fast it is moved and how high you are jumping with the load. Never sacrifice too much height for a bit more weight.

Other exercises

Is it possible to do a jump clean? Yes, it is. However it is not as effective as the jump snatch and the timing is harder to develop. That's why I recommend a regular power clean along with the jump snatch. That way you'll get the best out of both worlds: you'll develop maximum lower body power and your vertical jump with the jump snatch and you'll lift heavier loads with the power clean.

One variation that I like to use is the jump split snatch which is the same as the jump snatch I explained earlier except that you land with one leg forward and one leg backward (like in the jerk). An athlete should train by splitting both sides (one rep = left leg forward, one rep = right leg forward...).

Here are the specific parameters for the training of the modified Olympic lifts:

Parameter

Frequency: 2 times per week
Sets: 4-6
Reps: 2-6
Load: 75-85% (judge the load according to bar speed)
Rest intervals: 2-3 minutes

I had a chat to a guy who runs a vertical leap training site.
He's called ANT, he's 5'9" and runs a 41" vertical leap.

This is what he can do a White boy too!


ANT

170lbs bodyweight

400lbsx4reps squat (to just below parallel)

Fred Hatfield Vert training article

http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewarticle&articleID=24


21 week Vert program from Fred Hatfield's son
----------------------------------------------

Here is a program for increasing your vertical jump. It is NOT a complete program for athletes... Even those athletes who need great jumping ability will have to engage in conditioning, sport specific skill training, speed training and even other exercises in the weight room. The sole purpose of this program is to increase your vertical jump, but if you are an athlete, don’t fall into the trap of believing that this program is the only one you need! Instead, look for other programs that will be specifically designed for your sport. Those programs will also improve your vertical jump, but will also give you the tools you need to achieve athletic excellence!

The program is set over quite a long period of time. To do things right, you must acquire a certain level of fitness to use the upper levels of this program... Rome wasn’t built in a day, man must crawl before he can walk, and walk before he can run.... The same can be said about plyometrics -- which is the best way to increase your vertical jump! Do not skip workouts or cycles! Otherwise, "The Profits of Doom" who say plyometric training is dangerous may indeed be correct!

So if this program is to increase your vertical jump, why are upper body exercises included? Doesn’t a great vertical involve the legs? True, the legs and hips are the main movers, but research suggests that the arm swing can involve as much as 5% of your velocity while jumping. Have doubts about this? Try this simple experiment: Stand still and swing your arms up hard. Did you feel yourself lift upward at all? Perhaps you didn’t get off the ground, but you should’ve felt some upward movement. Perhaps even some of your body parts jiggled a bit!

That brings up another point: If too much jiggled, perhaps losing some bodyfat is in order! No matter how strong you are or how explosive you are, your vertical jump will always be terrible if you are overweight! Why carry the excess luggage? If this is the case, follow the zig zag diet program and get rid of that excess luggage!

Many of the exercises will not have assigned percentages or weights. Even if they do, please remember the almighty rule of THE LAW OF INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES! Numbers aren’t Holy, neither are percentages... What is important is that you are progressing upwards. As a general rule, increase the weight of the exercises which aren’t assigned percentages 5 lbs every 3rd week.

OF URGENT IMPORTANCE!!!! See a doctor before engaging in any exercise program! I know you’ve heard that before, but it is with good reason! EVERY athletic team in the nation has physicals before they allow any athlete to engage in team training. If it’s good enough for those folks, it’s good enough for you! Furthermore, if you are an athlete and have a strength coach, I strongly advise you to follow his or her program. They have a plan, and for a plan to work it must be followed. I invite you to show them this program, but your strength coach will have a program suited for you as an individual which must be followed.

MESOCYCLE 1: SET YOUR FOUNDATION!

Before you are ready to start training with Plyometrics, you must gain a foundation of strength! Conventional wisdom states that you should be able to squat 1.5 times your body weight before you engage in plyometrics. While this is true, it may NOT be taken for granted that you are ready even if you can squat this weight. The muscles may be strong enough, but the bones, tendons, ligaments and joints may still not be ready. Mesocycle 1 is designed to prepare you for such training -- in other words, to give you the necessary tools for further training! THIS MUST BE DONE FIRST!

Before you begin, establish your 1RM’s for the lifts that require such as well as noting your present vertical jump.


-------------------------------

see the above link for the full schedules and exercise descriptions

Volley ball players

Volley players need good vert, and I have a few Volleyball mags with articles and programs for vert training.

Anyway there aren't too many females under 6 feet that can dunk the Basketball... but there is one Cuban female Volleyball player that can!

Don't know if she is still playing, but Mireya Luis is a powerhouse!
She's 175cm or 5'9" weighs 69kg and has a 335cm jump reach - a basketball ring is 300cm...
She's she said to be able to dunk a basketball very easily - I guess when you can get your finger tips 14 inches above the ring from a one step 2 legged jump, it shouldn't be too hard !

That means she can touch the top of the black square, I can't think of many guys who can do that under 6 feet!
And this is after having had 2 children and one knee reconstruction!!

Another good article

----------------------
By Josh Henkin

There are a million products that make promises on increasing one's vertical leap. Everything from jumping shoes to programs that simply use bodyweight exercises. In many sports, athletes wish to jump higher in hope that they will improve their performance in their chosen sport. While this may be the case, it is equally important to remember that there are far more important aspects to sports performance than just how high you jump. However, understanding what makes for a good vertical jump can help many young athletes save a lot of money and see great progress from their work.

FLEXIBILITY!

This is the least exciting of all the principles that I could possibly name. However, if you do not have proper range of motion in your hips, shoulders, and low back you are not going to reach your potential. Since the dominant amount of force production in a vertical leap is accomplished in the hips, you will see that optimal range of motion is very necessary. If your hips are tight you will not be able to translate force through the hip musculature properly and you are setting yourself up for injuries, primarily in the low back and sacroiliac joint.

Simply stretching though in the traditional sense will not be the solution to your problems. In flexibility training there are two main types, static and dynamic. Static is the what most traditionally think when flexibility is mentioned. Holding a particular stretch for 20-60 seconds. Dynamic flexibility involves certain types of movement that will help increase the range of motion in certain joints. My preferred examples might be stepping over hurdles for the hips. The importance of the distinction relates to how you structure your program. There is a very poor correlation between these two types of flexibility. Meaning if you are bad in static stretching you can still be very good in dynamic. It is important to use both. Usually we will use dynamic methods prior to a workout, as it will provide proper range of motion and assist in increased force production. Static flexibility has been shown to reduce force production so usually it is saved for after the workout as a recovery method and additional flexibility training.

Sport Stretch by Michael J. Alter provides some great ideas for static stretches. Many of my dynamic stretches use basic tumbling, hurdles, and full range of motion lifts. By using all these methods the athlete can increase many aspects of their performance including their vertical jump.

Olympic Lifts and Hybrids

The Olympic lifts are terrific to incorporate into any serious sports performance program. My only concern is when athletes are unsure how to perform them correctly still try to utilize these lifts. This is really where injuries may occur. If one is taught these lifts properly they are far from dangerous and can provide numerous benefits. I would suggest if someone were interested in learning the lifts to find an USA Weightlifting Coach in their area.

Ok, so how do the Olympic lifts and their variations help the vertical jump? As I mentioned earlier the hips are primarily responsible for the success in a vertical jump. What the Olympic lifts do is teach the lifter how to use their hips explosively. This ability to translate force will allow one to utilize the stretch-shortening cycle (SSC) more efficiently leading to a better jump. A good example of the power of the SSC is the following. Try to jump, but before you explode up hold the bottom position for four seconds. Measure how high you jump. Next, dip down as fast as possible and come back up as fast as possible. See a difference? Chances are you saw significance between your two efforts, the second jump being much higher.

The other benefit from the Olympic lifts is if you use their full movements you can greatly increase the flexibility in major joints such as the hips and shoulder girdle. The Overhead squat, Drop Snatch, and others are great exercises to develop overall body strength and power. However, they will still increase range of motion in all important areas.

If you would like a stronger example of the impact of the lifts let us look at the following. I would like to thank my colleague Chad Ikei for the following information. This excerpt is from his article "Pulling To Jump Higher."

"Nicu Vlad of Romania, World Record holder and Two time Olympic Medallist, came to the United States back in 1990, with now current U.S. National and Olympic Team Coach Dragomir Cioroslan, for a training camp. It was here at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, that this 100-kg (220 lbs) weightlifter recorded a 42" vertical jump. Not to mention he was in weightlifting shoes, which weighs a lot more than tennis shoes and no formal warm-up. (Snatch 200 kg, Clean and Jerk 232.5 kg)

Wesley Barnett of Team USA, 3-time Olympian and Silver Medallist @ 1997 World Championships, have legs (especially hamstrings) and ass like a thoroughbred on him that most body builders would like to have. He has recorded vertical jumps of over 39" @ a height of 6'1" and 105 kg (231 lbs). I've even witnessed him dunking a basketball while jumping over my head, and I do mean literally jumping over my head which of course only stands a mere 5'2" but he straddle jumped directly over my head and dunked. (Snatch 175 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Mark Henry, 1996 Olympic Team Member, now known as "Sexual Chocolate" on the WWF scene, had quite a vertical jump. At 6'3" tall he could dunk a basketball, not to mention that he could squat over 1000 lbs and deadlift over 900 lbs. Now dunking a basketball at 6'3" doesn't sound that hard, but take in to account that he weighed at that time 175 kg (385 lbs). Now that's impressive for a big guy. (Snatch 180 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Shane Hamman, 2000 Olympic Team Member and current National Super heavyweight Champion, another big man weighing in @ 163 kg (358 lbs) but only at a height of 5'9" tall, can jump onto boxes @ a height over 42" high. Of course Shane was also known for his squatting ability of over 1000 lbs. (Snatch 195 kg, Clean and Jerk 230 kg)."

This is amazing considering the average vertical jump of a Division I men's basketball player is 28 inches!

Plyometrics

Plyometrics are one of the most poorly understood training methods in our toolbox. This method is also known as shock training. The purpose of plyometrics is not to be a conditioning technique, but rather improve the utilization of the SSC. However, one must posses a descent level of strength to benefit from such training as the joints and musculature will be able to translate force optimally. The first two methods may act as preparation for plyometric training.

Everyone must establish a baseline before they begin a plyometric program. Using basic foot contact drills and general physical preparation drills are terrific. This would include exercises like jumping jack, split shuffles, slalom jumps, mountain climbers, jump rope, as well as many others. From here additional bounding drills such, as skips can be included. One should not really train with plyometrics more than twice a week and this will vary greatly on the phase of the cycle. Plyometrics should also mostly involve several sets of low repetition training as we are aiming for quality of jumps than the number.

It is very important to remember this type of training has a great impact upon the body. Recovery will be crucial as well as the type of surface you use. Sandpits are my personal favorite as they offer a great deal of benefits to plyometric and sport-specific training. Just like any other training method if you do not understand how to use or implement this method you are better off not using it.

After reading the above ideas hopefully it is clearer that fancy equipment or "high-tech" methods are not necessary to have an incredible vertical jump. I would highly suggest that if you were interested in using any of the above methods but are unfamiliar with them to seek out a highly qualified strength and conditioning coach in your area. Most coaches will have a certification from National Strength & Conditioning Association and/or USA Weightlifting. Remember anything is possible with smart and well-organized training.

EMail me at [email protected] with questions or comments.

http://www.infinityfitness.com/memsam/articles/pull_01.htm


Part I: Pull more to jump higher

February 3, 2002
By CHAD IKEI


Time and time again you hear athletes inquiring on how to improve their jumping ability. The most common response among coaches would be “let’s focus on plyometrics.” When I speak of “plyometrics,” I am reffering to jumping exercises both unilateral and bilateral. In effect, the stretch shortening cycle or SSC is the primary focus in plyometric training. I will not go into details here because it would bore you and besides, there are ton of books on plyometric training. Also, plyometric training is the last thing most athletes need to improve their jumping ability.

It is my experience that most elite athletes already have great jumping abilities, ground contact times or SSC response. Having these athletes perform tons of jumps and ground contacts can lead to diminishing training effects. However, there is an appropriate time for plyometric training that is necessary for most athletes. Here are some guidelines I like to use when determining how to approach an athlete's training cycle for improving jumping ability.

1) Athletes heatlh history
2) Athletes sports specific position
3) Total playing time
4) Total season length
5) Total off-season length
6) Athletes bodycomposition (bodyfat/ht/wt)
7) Postural assesment
8) Functional muscle assesment
9) Maximal strength assesment
10) Structural balance assesment
11) Range-of-motion / flexibility assesment
12) Days available for training
13) Hours availble for training
14) Power / jumping assesment

After a full analysis of an athlete is performed the coach must sit down and analyze what is the “weakest link” in the athlete’s structure. This is the toughest part of the coach’s position. Determining the weakest links are easy, but applying them to a training program that has only a limited time is tough. But the hardest part of training the weakest link is explaining to the athlete why he will be performing such silly and seemingly boring exercises like external rotation or unilateral step-ups instead of performing power cleans and squats. But after execution of such exercises an athlete will notice the benefit from a much more balanced physiological system.

In Part I of this training article I will focus on one of the more common weak links: hip extension. Hip extension in this term will be considered the firing of the gluteus maximus, hamstrings and erector spinae.

If after a thorough analysis the weak link is the hip extensors, then priority must be given to this area. Depending on the time allotted for training (length of off-season preparation), a specific program geared toward improving hip extension strength and power must be developed. The approach I like to take if given the adequate training time is to improve an athlete’s hip extensor strength first and then work toward improving power. What this means in training terms is start out with deadlifts and it’s derivatives and work toward explosive hip extension movements like the Olympic lifts. If you don’t have a strong base, you will be less likely to develop adequate power in the next training cycles.

Since the emphasis of Part I of this article is on the benefits of training the hip extensors, I would like to use some examples of athletes with great vertical jump heights whom train the hip extensors 4-6 times a week. These athletes would be Olympic Weightlifters. In fact, from past training experience at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, we would train our hip extensors as much as 8-12 times per week. Now this is an extreme case, but when you look at the results of vertical jumps of these atheltes, you might want to consider training your athletes with hip extension exercises.
Nicu Vlad of Romania, World Record holder and Two time Olympic Medallist, came to the United States back in 1990, with now current U.S. National and Olympic Team Coach Dragomir Cioroslan, for a training camp. It was here at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, that this 100-kg (220 lbs) weightlifter recorded a 42” vertical jump. Not to mention he was in weightlifting shoes, which weighs a lot more than tennis shoes and no formal warm-up. (Snatch 200 kg, Clean and Jerk 232.5 kg)

Wesley Barnett of Team USA, 3-time Olympian and Silver Medallist @ 1997 World Championships, have legs (especially hamstrings) and ass like a thoroughbread on him that most body builders would like to have. He has recorded vertical jumps of over 39” @ a height of 6’1” and 105 kg (231 lbs). I’ve even witnessed him dunking a basketball while jumping over my head, and I do mean literally jumping over my head which of course only stands a mere 5’2” but he straddle jumped directly over my head and dunked. (Snatch 175 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

James Carter, probably one of the strongest legs pound for pound, could dunk a volleyball on a regulation basketball court. He couldn’t dunk a basketball because his hands were too small; he only stood 5’5” tall and weighed about 64 kg (140 lbs). I’ve witnessed him squatting 245 kg (540 lbs), and that’s with no belt and no knee wraps and ass to the floor…A REAL SQUAT. He has also pulled over 500 lbs off the floor like no tomorrow. (Snatch 120 kg, Clean and Jerk 160 kg)

Mark Henry, 1996 Olympic Team Member, now known as “Sexual Chocolate” on the WWF scene, had quite a vertical jump. At 6’3” tall he could dunk a basketball, not to mention that he could squat over 1000 lbs and deadlift over 900 lbs. Now dunking a basketball at 6’3” doesn’t sound that hard, but take in to account that he weighed at that time 175 kg (385 lbs). Now that’s impressive for a big guy. (Snatch 180 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Shane Hamman, 2000 Olympic Team Member and current National Superheavyweight Champion, another big man weighing in @ 163 kg (358 lbs) but only at a height of 5’9” tall, can jump onto boxes @ a height over 42” high. Of course Shane was also known for his squatting ability of over 1000 lbs. (Snatch 195 kg, Clean and Jerk 230 kg)

So, as you can see both leg and hip extension strength plays a major role in vertical jumping and explosive power. Considering that Mark and Shane both could squat over 1000 and cleaned over 500#. It doesn’t necessarily mean you have to squat a 1000# and clean 500# to jump high, but it does mean that you have to improve your leg strength as much as your pulling strength. Do note that these athletes listed above were elite weightlifters and the development of both the hip and knee extensors were extremely strong. But the point I wanted to make was that their capabilities of training the hip extensors contributed to their great vertical displacements, considering that none of these athletes were involved in a structured jumping program or sport.

By training the hip extensors with the appropriate exercises an athlete can improve his or her jumping abilities without actually performing tons of plyometric training. Once a foundation is laid and explosive hip extension movements are introduced, then and only then should we focus our attention to plyometric training. But don’t get me wrong, if an athlete has a different weak link such as weak legs or poor ground contact time (usually due to weak legs) then another approach would need to be taken. The same thing goes for a very stong athlete that needs more emphasis in speed, here an athlete would tend to benefit from more plyometric training. There is no one answer for improving jumping abilities, but there is a process on how to improve an individual athlete’s performance.

Olympic lifting demos - show you how's it done

by Chad Ikei

Shows you how to do the PowerSnatch and Powerclean among other things

Part1 - 2megs
http://www.infinityfitness.com/videos/nl/chad01.asf

Part2- 32megs
http://www.infinityfitness.com/videos/nl/chado2.asf

right click and save as


Quote from Coach Chad I found

"Another very common mistake with using the Olympic lifts is the improper cycling of leg training, primarily the Squat, Deadlift, Snatch and Clean movements. If you are not mixing and cycling the movements correctly, you will not develop the optimal strength of the legs. It has been said that Olympic Lifters have the best Vertical Jumps (especially for non-jumping sport). The reason for these high vertical jumps of elite weightlifters is the fact of the loading system used in their training system. All Olympic Weightlifters have utilized HEAVY squats, pulls, and the Olympic Lifts. As the saying goes..."GO HEAVY OR GO HOME."

various articles from The Renegade, Coach Davies

http://www.intensitymagazine.com/01-08-02/renegade_thoughts.html/

http://www.intensitymagazine.com/01-15-02/renegade_thoughts.html

http://www.intensitymagazine.com/01-22-02/renegade_thoughts.html

http://www.intensitymagazine.com/01-29-02/renegade_thoughts.html

AirAlert

Ever heard of it?

What you think of it? I'm gonna try it... PRomises 8-12 inches increase on vert....

Its not worth getting, its good for getting shin splints, since you train everyday just about! Don't botehr buying it, I've seen it on a website. My friend has a copy, and its a scam at best.

You don't have to pay to increase your vertical, all the info is here and on the web.

Really you have to squat and do weights if you wanna get serious about maximising your vertical.

i did air alert. forone thing you kill yourself. then all it reallly gives you is a quicker vert. its not worth it and it was prob very bad on my knees.

I found this on ABC BB...

So, i'm not paying...

There are 5 excercises that you do 5 times a week Mondays through Fridays.
Leap Ups, Calf Raises, Step Ups, Thrust Ups, and Burn Outs

Leap Ups

step 1: bend down to a 1/4 squat position with your hands it in front of you. Put your your arms by your side and raise your forearms up so your arms from a 90 degree angle (sorry if this sounds confusing). Then jump up.

step 2: Jump up into the air to a minimum of 8 to 10 inches and when in the air put your hands down byour sides and make your arms straight.

Repeat

Calf Raises

Do this one leg at a time. Get a book about 4 inches thick and get something to hold onto to keep your balance like a chair. While standing straight up, place the ball of one foot (keep the other leg elevated) on the book and let the heel hang over the edge. Your entire body weight will be resting on the planted foot which will be stretching your calf downward.

Raise yourself up on your toes as high as you can using only your calf muscle then lower yourself back down so your heel is below the edge of what you are standing on. This is one rep. Repeat. Switch legs after completing all reps for one leg. Rest 25 seconds in between sets.

Step Ups
Get a chair and place it in front of you. Place one foot on the chair so your thigh is parallel to the ground. You should be in a stepping position with one leg up and one leg on the floor. Push up with the elevated leg as hard as you can so your body and feet actually leave the chair. While in the air, cross or switch your legs so that when you land you should be in the same but opoposite position as before. This is one rep. Repeat. Rest 3-4 minutes in between sets.

Thrust Ups
Simply jump straight up (1 rep) and as soon as you land jump up again as high and as hard as you can. When you land don't bend your legs, unlike the leap ups)Rest 1 minute in between sets.

Burn Outs
Jump up no more than 1/2 to 1 inch off the ground as you did in the thrust ups. Don't bend your knees and during this excercise you must be elevated on your tiptoes as high as possible and keep this position during this entire excercise.

Week 1:
Leap Ups 1 set 50 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 10 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 10 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 15 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 50 reps

Week 2:
Leap Ups 1 set 100 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 20 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 15 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 20 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 100 reps

Week 3:
Leap Ups 1 set 125 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 25 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 15 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 25 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 150 reps

Week 4:
Leap Ups 1 set 150 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 30 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 20 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 30 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 200 reps

Week 5:
Leap Ups 2 sets 100 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 35 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 20 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 35 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 250 reps

Week 6:
Leap Ups 2 sets 125 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 40 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 25 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 40 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 300 reps

Week 7:
Leap Ups 2 sets 150 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 45 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 25 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 45 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 350 reps

Week 8:
Leap Ups 2 sets 200 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 50 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 30 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 50 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 400 reps

Week 9:
Leap Ups 2 sets 250 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 55 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 20 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 55 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 450 reps

Week 10:
Leap Ups 2 sets 300 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 60 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 35 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 60 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 500 reps

Week 11:
Leap Ups 2 sets 350 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 65 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 35 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 65 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 550 reps

Week 12:
Leap Ups 2 sets 400 reps
Calf Raises 2 sets 70 reps
Step Ups 2 sets 40 reps
Thrust Ups 2 sets 70 reps
Burn Outs 1 set 600 reps


That's not good?

What do you recommend? HOw many inches could I increase my vertical, really, in 4 months?

Bodyweight only execises only work on beginners and people who don't jump a lot or very hard. They didn't work for me, because I'm quite an advanced jumper already, and I jump very hard everytime, I already have the technique down. I just need the strength and power so weights is much better. You only have to look at how big and heavy Olympic Lifters are, and then look at their verticals of 36 to 43+ inches! And they don't even do plyometrics or any jump training.
Imagined if they did! They would be good for another 6+ inches or so.

Some guy on another board said the people he were training were all around 300lbs in bodyweight and they all increased their verticals 4-6 inches or so after 2 months of Cleans, Snatches and Squats.

the schedule he gave was wrong its not that high but it is still high. that might be air alert one cuz i did air alert two. but the same workouts are done and it is still mon to fri but the reps are all wrong.

Well, that's the program someone said they gained 10 inches on and someone else said they gained a lot too...

I'm gonna try it, I think......

yo man i tried it i put alot of work into it and it didnt work. and i think it made my knees weaker but you can try it if you want but, i dont know bout all those reps if you are a starter at plys you want even last for the first week leap ups are a killer.

I suggest you do it 3 times a week - Mon, Weds and Friday instead of the 5 days in a row as stated in the program, and don't play ball on the weekend, REST. Once you finish the porgram then go and play ball. You only improve once the msucle has been rested and rebuilt itself.

Measure your vertical first thing every Monday.

I'm not gonna do that, it's just too much volume and would add too much time to my routine...

What do you recommend? I can't squat heavy--no rack or spotter.. I do front squats though...

Thanks

Try that routine above from Fred Hatfield II,

You don't need a spotter since you don't really need to go to failure. And if you have a power rack to squat in, if you fail just drop the bar on the safety rails.

Front squats are fine though. Damn hard to do though and you can't lift as much weight. I'm trying em out now. I have the flexibility in my wrists to do it, but I can't leave the bar on my chest like that guy in video above can do it without the bar rolling off

I've started adding in jump squats at the start of my workout and I tell ya its hard. Still getting into the groove though. Makes my front delts real sore.

It seems like a lot of lifts...

here is my split now:

Mon: Chest/Tri's/Abs
Tu: Legs
Wed: Abs
Thur: Back/Bi's/Forearms
Fri: Shoulders/Abs
Sat and sun: OFF

I do clean and a few others spread out during the week... If I added those to each day, it would make my routint REALLY long..

I don't have a rack... So I just do fronts

well you can't mix athletic training with bodybuilding training


You either do that routine by itself or yours.

Oh... Maybe i'll try it some other time then..

Well you should periodize your training. Get the size and strenth you want now, and then alter switch to a more power style traing for vertical.

----------


Research of muscle antagonist pairs and speed of movement


A high correlation was found between the strength of the hamstrings and the vertical jump results of weightlifters. Furthermore, the vertical jump results of weightlifters have a high, but inversely proportional connection to the speed with which the knees shift under the barbell. The stronger the hamstrings, the higher the vertical jump of weightlifters, the faster the knees shift under the barbell in the "explosion" (4).


The faster this reaction takes place, the more powerful the "explosion", the higher the results.


Research into improving the speed of joint motion has shown that the relative strength of the antagonist muscle in an antagonistic pair can affect the speed of movement (1). The hamstrings are the antagonist muscles to the quads. These muscles act as a "brake" for the quadriceps during the extension of the leg. This is to keep the joint from being straightened faster than it can be prudently stopped.


According to the research in this area: " When the agonist is stronger than the antagonist, the neuromuscular system limits speeds to that the antagonist can safely brake, even if the agonist can make the joint move faster" (1).


Consequently, the recommendation "To make an athlete move faster, training must emphasize the antagonist"(1). In all probability this is the reason for the practical observation in weightlifting that "A lot of squats adversely effect speed"(16). A significant disproportionate strength development between the quadriceps and the hamstrings is, apparently, the reason behind this observation.


The key role the hamstrings can play in weightlifting technique revolves around the so - called stretch reflex and the positive effect the action of these muscles can have on the vertical forces produced by the quadriceps. In the approximately one second it takes to execute the snatch, the hamstrings are stretched and subjected to significant tension as the legs initially straighten when the barbell is lifted from the floor. Then, in virtually the same instant they come into play to flex the knees as they shift under the bar. Finally, a fraction of a second later, the hamstrings flex the legs for the squat under the bar.

How do you think it will take me to add 8-12 inches on my vertical?

I want to gain size and lose BF ASAP.. So i'm going to be doing some cardio..

I'll probably sprint 3x/week starting in July, but until then I might do some pylo's... Which would be cardio, right?

If I did a few pylo's on tue/wed/thur or something, would that be good?

Well its all genetics, but I would say between 6 to 12 months. You don't want to rush it, ie lose fat without losing the muscle, build up your strength base, and strengthen your ligaments and tendons to withstand the pounding of plyometrics, especially the shin muscles etc. It takes at least 2-3 months to start getting really explosive on snatches and cleans etc.

Plyos are not cardio. You need to rest quite a bit between plyo sets, because its meant to train the nervous system and stretch reflex. Doing high volume and minimal rest to turn it into cardio will create bad form and CNS learning, and eventually ruin your vertical leap form

Because you can't do everything at once you have to periodise your training. Look at that program for ideas. It starts off with 12 weeks of strength and foundation building, then the power exercises get introduced, and then plyos come in at the end. that's the order you do it. And then you repeat the cycle for more gains.

Once you get good a interval sprints, it doesn't tax you as much, and you won't get sore from them like you will when you first start off. By then you can do it on the off days. But you can forget about splitting your workout the way you are now. You need to work your whole body at once for atheltic power, or at the very least you can do a 2 day split.

Vertical leap training will work your legs quite hard as is, if you want to add muscle size as well, you can just concentrate on your upper body. Just do a few basic compound exercises at the end of the workout should do the trick. I have learnt the hard way, that you can't do eveyrthing and be good at them all, you will overtrain and not get the desired results. Its best to specialise. Why don't you lose the fat first, then build up a strength and foundation, then start doing power exercises like jump snatches and cleans, and then go into the plyo phase.

personally I'm at the lose fat/strength and foundation build up phase. But I am do bar only jump sntaches at the start of my workouts to learn the form and technique, get into the groove if you will, and it warms up my body. I do sprints twice a week on the off days and I'm on a lowish carb diet. Still quite fat, and very weak

If you were me and your goals were:

Gain size--Jay(son) Williams look--Duke PT guard.. Lose BF, and increase vertical 10+ inches... How would you start off?

Just go with my current split.. ? Then start doing cardio around July..? Then around August start pylo's?

Well that's what I'm doing now myself, get big, get strong and lose fat

Building my foundation for explosive speed and vertical power!

I'm working my whole body each session. 2 to 3 times a week, with Sprints on the rest days in between each work out.

ie I train on Mon, Weds and Sat. I sprint on Tues and Sunday.


Splits are a waste of time. The more you can workout and recover in a week , the faster the gains. In your current split your basicly working your bodyparts once a week. In that time each of my bodyparts have been worked 3 times and I've gained from every workout. Both size and strength - although I don't don't claim to all that big

see my diet thread for some progress pics of me - I don't look like a Bball player or sprinter just yet

http://209.11.101.244/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=133563

Tips from a Q&A

The first thing to look at is your level of maximal strength in the muscles responsible for jumping which are (in approximate order of importance) glutes, hamstrings, quads, gastrocnemius, and low back musculature. The usual exercises used in assessing the maximal strength of these muscles are the back squat and/or deadlift.

Although I can't give you any exact numbers, in general, the greater your maximal strength is, the more you should be emphasizing accelerative and explosive training methods in your training (such as plyometrics). The lower your maximal strength is, the more you should simply work on improving that aspect.


Although I don't know the details of your specific situation, I'll provide an example. If you weigh 185 pounds and your maximal back squat (performed such that the tops of the thighs reach a parallel position when viewed from the side) is 275x1, this would represent a low to low-average level of maximal strength. The majority of your training should be devoted to developing maximal strength. On the other hand, if you weigh 185 and can squat 365, then this represents a relatively high level of maximal strength, and comparatively more of your efforts should be devoted toward developing explosive power.


At least a large percentage of your squats should be performed in a manner that corresponds to your particular style of vertical jumping. If you jump with a narrow stance and significant trunk lean, you won't benefit too much from a wide-stance, vertical trunk squat, for example. Videotape your vertical jump from the front and side and notice the width of your stance and your knee and hip angles. Then perform squats that resemble this position (not ALL of your squats should be done this way, but approximately 50% of them should). If you feel that you are already fairly strong and need to emphasize explosive strength, perform 8-12 sets of 2-3 reps in an accelerative manner (you won't come anywhere near failure) with a load that approximates 60% of your maximal ability in the whatever style of squat you're doing. If you need to improve maximal strength, perform 4-6 sets of 3-5 reps with heavy weights (still trying to accelerate). Additional exercises would include stiff-leg deadlifts, back extensions, reverse hypers, cleans and clean pulls, calf raises, deadlifts, and glute-ham raises. Lower body exercise should be done twice in a 7-10 day period.

More useful vert tibits


> What is the best weight training exercise for increasing vertical
> jumping height?

The deadlift. That's the one single exercise. If you only want to do
one exercise for your vertical, do one set of 20-rep deadlifts once
every 7-10 days.

If you can perform more than one exercise, here's what gained me and
my friends a lot of vertical (I was able to touch a ten foot high
basketball goal with my head once after training for a few months with
this kind of a routine)

1. Slow full squat 1 x 20
2. Slow stiff leg deadlift 1 x 15
3. Slow standing calf raise 1 x 20

That and some sprinting or jumping in your particular sport will make
your vertical soar.

Glute and hamstrings are the 2 most important muscle groups for vert and sprint power.

This exercise works the hammies quite hard

http://www.cbathletics.com/issues/41.htm#Lunge


The lunge is a fantastic exercise that trains the glutes, hamstrings, quadriceps, and calves. It also stretches the hip flexors and demands balance and core stability. This exercise requires the physical abilities characterizing many athletic events. Therefore the lunge is a great strengthening exercise for sport performance and also stimulates muscle growth for those looking to improve the appearance of their lower body.


The lunge has many variations: forward, sideways, diagonal, and can even be performed onto a step, as all of these change the number of muscles recruited and vary the degree to which each muscle is stressed. BUT/ is there a superior technique? Well, I think there is. I recently discovered the hard way that the “reverse lunge” is the #1 contender for best lunge variation.



Here is the technique.

Stand upright, feet shoulder-width apart, holding light DB’s (dumbbells). Take a normal stride backward (with the “trailing leg”) and rest the toe of the trailing leg on the ground. Now squat down with the lead (“working”) leg controlling the weight of the body. Squat down so that the trailing knee touches the ground, and use the lead leg to return to the upright position.



The movement should be very similar to the push-off of a sprinting stride. This movement is called hip extension and will demand a forceful contraction of the hamstrings. The reverse lunge is also called the “split-squat” by some trainers and can be done with a barbell (across the trapezius as in the squat) as the resistance.



Three sets of 8 reps at a moderate weight will result in some pretty sore hamstrings the day after even if the reverse lunge is the only leg exercise performed on that day! Stick with this exercise and you will see improvements in sport performance, because it really focuses on the hamstrings and a movement pattern that is specific to almost all sports (soccer, b-ball, hockey, etc.).



Why is the reverse lunge better?

Do the movement. It feels very different than the standard lunge. The key here is that the working leg (the front, or lead leg) is always loaded, however this is not true during the forward lunge. In the traditional forward lunge, the lead leg gets to rest because it is unloaded when you step forward and back.



Again, remember that single-leg exercises are almost always superior to bilateral exercises like the leg press. This is true whether you are a bodybuilder or athlete, because single-leg exercises enable you to develop balanced strength between legs and do not let your stronger side dominate!

--------------------------------

BTW this movement is very similar to what your legs do in a sprint, and thus your hammies and glutes will blow up for max vert. Your glutes will be strirated as well if you get lean enough

Check this out, this chick does lots of reverse lunges on a smith machine - freaky hammies! Heh as a Guy I would be proud of these hams, this girl is a monster!

Plyos, reverse romanian hyper lunges, exotic exercises, etc. are unnecessary for hamstring development and increasing vertical leap IMO.

Concentrate on heavy squats, glute-ham raises and reverse hypers and do the concentric portion of each exercise as fast as possible. This will increase your vertical and hamstring development as well as anything else you could ever do. Keep it simple and focus on the intensity of the exercises you perform-- do not waste concentration on fancy variations of exercises and useless "programs" designed to specifically do only one thing (increase vertical, increase punching power, etc). Train the whole body and especially the core/posterior chain for power/speed and you will be fast and jump high. The end.

True, but every little bit counts when you want to get as close as to your genetic potential. None of the traditional weight exercises get close to jump snatches for total body involvement, power production and speed. The fact that I actually jump into the air means a good transfer to my dunking skills.

And let's not forget the body adapts to exercises very quickly, so the more variety of exercises at your fingertips the better. Unlike powerlifters our goal is not to get good at an exercise, they are the means to an end.

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/157exp2.html

great link relevant for vert training

about explosvie reverse hypers and calf raise

More on reverse hypes and glute ham raise


http://www.intensitymagazine.com/03-26-02/jeff_olech.html

SOme exercises that would be good for vert training

overhead squat - I think you raise the heels as you descend to keep balance

http://www.intensitymagazine.com/03-26-02/the_renegade.html

single leg squat

http://www.intensitymagazine.com/02-26-02/mike_mahler.html

8 week vert program by Top Aussie coach Ian King

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/154jump2.html

The Body as One Piece program

The Body as One Piece program by Dan John
=======================

This is a real world program. It took years to develop, so it went through a lot of revisions. I will try to make the stuff that doesn't make sense, make sense.


Week one
=======

Monday

Power Snatch
6 sets of 3 (18 reps) trying to do two double pyramids
After each set of snatches, immediately do a quick set of light hang or "top" snatches with 30% of your best snatch. Dumbbells can be used here, too. (Think 8-10 reps)

Tuesday

Overload Squats, six heavy sets. Overload squats need spotters. The athlete takes a max or near max weight, fights to go down under control and then is assisted back up. Be sure the athlete comes up quickly! (And does most of the squatting) Reps are supposed to be high, but it really is hard to do more than three to five. Immediately after racking the bar, the athlete does ten vertical jumps, it is best if there is a target to touch (ceiling, rim, top of head, if really tired).

Wednesday

If able, do Power Curls 6 sets of 3, with two pyramids
If fatigued, straight leg deadlifts
Or rest (the first time through, many athletes can't walk after overload squats)

Thursday

Rest


Friday

Bench Press
6 sets of 3, immediately followed by Push presses with 30% of best bench. Dumbbells don't work well.


Week two
=======

Monday

Power Snatch
7 Sets of 5 (35 reps, double last weeks volume of reps) followed by 30% quick lifts

Tuesday

Overhead Squats. Reps are five's. The athlete can do a single "ladder" sets of five to best, or, the double pyramid style of going up once, backing off and going up again. If gym situation permits, mix with exaggerated skipping or bounding

Wednesday

Straight leg deadlifts


Thursday

Rest


Friday

Bench Press
7 Sets of 5, mixed with 30% push presses (again 8-10 on these 30% lifts)

Week three
========

Monday

Pyramid up to best double in power snatch. No "fuzzy logic" here. Get two reps or it doesn't count!

Tuesday

Test on vertical jump (jump and reach) and standing long jump. This is more important than it looks. We found the athletes really began to improve here in two cycles.

Wednesday

Power Curls up to a heavy triple


Thursday

Rest


Friday

Oddest thing of the program: Max 8 reps in 8 seconds on Bench. Using a stopwatch, see how much the athlete can bench 8 times in 8 seconds. It takes, perhaps, three cycles to get this right, but it is illuminating when the athlete throws the shot or disc. Improvement here leads to improvement in the throws, and the football field and the ...


Week four

Unload.

Either rest from weights or do circuit-like training.

Great link

http://www.speedstrength.co.nz/jumptesting.html

Test your jump to figure what type of training you need to improve your vertical, wether its weights, power of plyos

Here is a formula for calculating various aspects of your VJ (Lewis nomogram)

P= (21.693) x B x SquareRoot of H

P=power in watts
B= Bodyweight in kilograms
H=Vertical Jump in metres

You can move the formula around to calculate many things - ie how much bodyfat you need to lose to get a certain vertical if your power remains the same.

ie say you weigh 80kg and you can jump 40inches (1m)

Your power is (21.693) x 80 x SR of 1 = 1735.44 watts

Say you want to figure out how much fat you need to lose to reach a 48inch (1.2m) vertical without any loss in power.

1735.44 divided by (21.693 x SR of 1.2) = 73kg

This means you need to lose 7kg or 15 lbs

Exercise suitable for vert jump training

Take the bar out like you are going to squat with it, squat down all the
way, pause, then explode up and heave the bar off your neck to lockout at
arms length. When you lower it absorb the shock and negative stress by
letting the bar down as you are going down. Use a light weight at first
untill you get comfortable with it.

I tried the Jump Snatch/Clean Pull today.
I think this is a awesome move for improving vertical jump and the standing long jump. Use a load that allows your feet to leave the ground. Since its simple and not as skilled based as the Power Clean and Snatch, its much better for developing power. You can use more weight too.

Its kind a like a jumping deadlift

ANother good move is the Jump shrug with a dive start. Basicly
you set the power rack bars so that when barbell is sitting on them, it's at knee height - when you have your knees bent to the exact same height as the bottom of your vertical jump.
Then just leave the bar there and stand up. On a count of 3 you drop down like your vertical jumping, grab the bar and jump up so your feet leave the ground, shrugging the shoulders at the top of the jump. Drop the bar down again and repeat.

Also the Push press is a good exercise.

Power cleans feel so pussy compared to these lifts
Olympic lift hybrids are so much fun!!!!!!!!
I feel like a mean explosive power athlete MOFO

But damn I need some lifting gloves - tore up my hands throwing these Olympics bars around!

freak!

Hector Soto in 1996 -
http://www.volleyball.org/people/hector_soto.html


46" vertical


A few years later with a reported 48" vertical
http://volleyball.about.com/library/weekly/aa000224-player.htm



His feet are almost at the other guy's shoulder!

I don't know if the measurements are for a standing vert
but the pictures tell a thousand words!
And he's 6'6" too....

Must be awfully hard to block his spikes!

http://www.intensitymagazine.com/01-15-02/erick_colbert.html


In the evolution of Power development, it is very important to become familiar with the concept of strength deficit. It's an extremely powerful tool that will assist you, the coach, in determining the individual needs of your players, regardless of the sport. In this article, I'll illustrate exactly what the strength deficit is, an easy way to assess the athlete, how to interpret the results, and point you in the right direction as to the proper way to maximize each athlete's potential to express Power on the playing field—Where It Counts!

First and foremost, the strength deficit is "the percentage of maximal strength potential which is not used during a given motor task." The task could be anything related to sport movement in any variety of sports. "Why wouldn't a player be able to use all of his/her strength potential?" Well, let's take a look at some research. Below is a list of various sport motions, and the time it takes to perform these tasks in seconds. Movement Time (s)
Shot put 0.15-0.18
Javelin 0.16-0.18
Sprinting (coming out of the blocks) 0.08-0.10
Long Jump 0.11-0.12
High Jump 0.18


As you can see, these explosive sports movements occur extremely quick. To fully grasp why it isn't possible to express maximal strength fully one must be aware of the time it takes to display maximal strength and force. Research has shown that maximal force is reached between 0.3-0.4 seconds. In some instances, it may be slightly longer than 0.04 for a small minority. What does this tell us? Look at the movements listed in the chart above. They are executed at a significantly faster rate than that of maximal force. Upon comparison, it becomes quite apparent that we simply cannot utilize all of our muscular force within these time parameters.

The most common way to measure the strength deficit in your athletes is through the vertical jump test. The coach needs to get a measurement for the static jump. This simply means a jump from bent legs (the stretch reflex should be totally eliminated, so hold position for 3-4 seconds before allowing athlete to explode upward). One must also use dynamic measure, which is a vertical jump preceded by a sudden dip to activate the stretch reflex which results in greater force. The difference between the two should then be calculated. The dynamic subtracted by the static jump = strength deficit. The standard difference is approximately 20%—that's acceptable. If the difference between the two numbers is large (more than 20%), then the athlete is lacking explosiveness. Therefore, the athlete needs to focus his attention towards explosive training in the form of Olympic lifts for low reps, Plyometrics (shock training), and Medicine ball work. These methods are effective in training the nervous system to fire quicker and with more force. If the difference in the numbers is small (less than 20%), there will be a need to gear towards building hypertrophy (muscular size) using moderate weights with ample repetitions along with a concerted effort to improve starting strength. The strengthening exercises should be basic in nature, and the focus should be on multi-joint exercises that stimulate large amounts of muscle fiber. Never forget the core!

I would recommend testing for this 3-4 times a year during the off-season to assess the effectiveness of your training. It'll give an indication as to whether you've made any headway on increasing your explosiveness or whether or not the muscle mass you are building is translating into functional strength or unnecessary bulk.

Let's not forget that most skill-oriented sports involve ballistic movements that occur much quicker than the time it takes to achieve maximal force. In relation to time, the slower the movement, the more max strength will predominate. To the contrary, when movements are quick, strength plays a much lesser role. Rate of Force Development, RFD (your ability to activate as many muscle fibers in the shortest amount of time) becomes the overriding factor for success. This activation of muscle fiber can be thought of as an explosive burst, as witnessed from a flash bulb when someone takes a picture or flips a light switch, if you will.

I hope this article has been enlightening as to the importance of the strength deficit. Understanding the basic elements should help you to see the big picture in attaining maximal Power. The assessment of strength deficit is easily done and the test doesn't lie. The results will leave you with little doubt as to what is needed. The vertical is used because it is, without question, one of the best markers for assessing overall explosive power of the athlete in a wide variety of sports. Give it a try. You won't be sorry!

Coach Davies is amazing.. have u ever seen his complex training program? MAN so much varrying its awsome!

lifter

http://www.testosterone.net/articles/215comp.html

Davies complex training routine.

lifter

Q. I am 32 and a volleyball player. It seems that I have lost a eight (8) inches from my vertical over the last few years. I have gotten back into the gym and taking it very serious trying to regain what I have lost. Its been 3 months or so and I am feeling stronger, but I am not really getting what I am after so far. We train our legs once every 6 or 7 days trying to give enough rest. Starting with leg press of 4 sets with 12,12,10,12 reps. From there we go to hack squats with the same set and rep scheme. Then leg extensions , finally, only 1 exercise for hamstrings and calves. It doesn't seem like we are training the fast twitch muscles much? How do I work in the training for the fast twitch muscles or do I change my whole routine?

A. The current routine will not do much to improve your vertical jump. To improve your vertical jump, your program should be centered around the Olympic lifts variations, i.e. ... clean pulls from mid-thigh, power snatches. Improving your strength in squats, deadlifts and pulls will directly translate into increases in vertical jump height. Once you have base strength levels, the best exercises that have carry-over to vertical jump increases are:


Power Snatch

Power Cleans

Push-jerks

Snatch Pulls

Clean Pulls

Jump squats

Barbell Back Lunges

Caber Toss

Pull-throughs

High Bench Step-ups
Best of luck,

--Charles Poliquin

Balance your strength program

Balance Your Strength Program

Milton Williams

The purpose of this article is to show how the Olympic lifts (snatch, clean, and jerk) can be incorporated into a well-balanced strength program. I really think the issue of whether a person should do power lifts or Olympic lifts should be a dead issue. I think most coaches now recognize the value and interdependence of both styles of lifts. The marriage of the two brings the best of two worlds together, along with tremendous results for the athlete.

When I first arrived in Baton Rouge, I immediately looked up Gayle Hatch, a noted Olympic lifting coach, to help me with my personal training. I had been incorporating the snatch and clan & jerk into my program to help me with my shot putting, and I felt that his guidance would help me with those two lifts. What I gained was a philosophy of strength training that has proven invaluable. Perhaps some of you might be wondering what I saw that sold me on the program that I’m going to outline for you. Gayle Hatch’s weightlifting team has won the Jr. Olympic National Title for more that four years in a row. He has produced two Olympians in four years, and numerous National champs and World Master champs. For those of you who are interested in some of the lifters personal bests, look at the following:


Tommy Calandro – 1984 Olympic tea member in the 198 lb. Class
Power Clean – 408
Power Snatch – 308 X 2
Front Squat – 525: 475 X 8
Bench Press – 400

Brett Brian – 1988 Olympic team member in the 198 lb. Class
Power Clean – 400
Power Snatch – 303
Front Squat – 460
Bench Press – 405

Brandon Baker – Age 16 Ht., 5’9", Wt. 175
Clean & Jerk 358
Front Squat – 396 X 5
Bench Press – 350
Vertical Jump – 30’

Note that all of these athletes are not just specialist in Olympic lifts, but possess tremendous total body strength, Calandro and Brian also have vertical jumps of 37-38 inches.

Let me now detail the program that produced these lifts. I should first explain that this program is for an advanced high school athlete. This load would have to be built up to for a period of 3 – 5 years. Coach Hatch also believes in all athletes doing the complete squat snatch and squat clean, regardless of the sport. This seems to be the trend of many teams today, both in the professional and collegiate ranks.

Monday

Snatch
Power Snatch
Jerk Behind Neck
Snatch Pull
Overhead squats

Tuesday (Heavy Day)

Front Squat
Back Squat
Bench Press/Incline
Power Shrug (Clean Grip)
Lat Pull
Curl
Neck

Thursday

Clean & Jerk
Power Jerk
Power Clean
Clean Pull


Friday (Light Day)

Back Squat
Front Squat
Incline/Bench Press
Power Shrugs (Snatch Grip)
Lat Pull
Hyperextensions
Neck

The cycle is normally started with 8 reps on squats, presses, and pulls, with 5 reps being the rep scheme on power clean and power snatch. Three are done on the squat snatch and squat clean. After three weeks the reps are dropped to 5’s on squats, presses (bench and incline), and pulls. Threes become the main staple for all other lifts. Two to three weeks into the phase have the athlete do 85%-90% triples and 80%-85% 5’s on heavy days. There is usually a 10% -15% reduction on light days. When the 90%triples are regularly handled, a bonus set is permitted. This set is usually 95% -100% of 1-2 reps.

There you have it. Lots of brutally hard work done in a manner to yield great gains in strength, explosiveness, flexibility, and coordination. In short, all the attributes needed to succeed in athletics.

Kevin Kovach

When does your maximum load in squat stop improving your jumping ability?

For example lets say someone starts training with a 20 inch vertical, and can squat 100 pounds. He works out for awhile,and raises his max squat to 200 pounds. He now has a 23 inch vertical. He then adds another 100 pounds to his squat, and he has a 26 inch vertical. And so on.
Well my question is, when does the improvement in squat stop correlating to vertical jump.


Todd Wilson

The correlation will stop when their rate of force production limits the height of their jump do to the inability of the muscle (i.e., muscle, nervous system, etc.) to produce enough force in the amount of time that it takes to jump. In other words. To propell your body 26 inches in the air, you have to produce X amount of force, in Y amount of time. That ratio must remain constant if you were to keep progressing 3 inches for every hundred pounds.

However, here's something else to look at. Let's say you squat 250 and jump 26 inches. You improve your squat to 300 but you still jump 26 inches. Why didn't your jump go up? Because you improved strength, not power. You can produce more force, but it takes more time. SO how then do you go about improving jumping ability? Well, you need to improve power. What is power? FxD/T? Therefore we would need to get faster at producing the force. You would do this via, Olympic lifts, Plyometrics, or depending on what you had been doing to get stronger, using heavier or lighter weight. For example, if you built your 300 pound squat using reps of 6-8 RM, reps of 1-3RM may help improve power. If you've been using reps of 1-3RM, perhaps 1-3 reps is good, but you might need to lower weight in order to work on acceleration, etc. But you see my point, you would need to get faster. On the other hand, let's say...you had a 30 inch vertical, but only could squat 135. You go on a plyometric program for 6 weeks, re-test your vertical, and you've gained maybe an inch on your vertical. Well that sucks! So what should you do? More plyo's? Absolutely not. You would need to squat then because while the person can generate force quickly, he isn't generating a whole lot of force. SO take that person and get him up to a 100kg squat and you'll have a guy with a 33-36 inch vertical.

This is the problem with most periodization models. "Power" improvement for one athlete may mean that plyo's explosive lifts etc. are ideal, but for another, he may actually need to train slower (but not necessarily slow mind you) to get faster.

help me coolcolj?

my vertical is a 30 standing and i know i lack strength cause plyos never worked for me. i was wondering what exercises should i do and what rep scheme should i use my goal is a 36 standing and 40 running. maybe you could help me out with a program coolcolj?
my body type is alot like yours i have very muscular legs im about 170 , i think and im 5'9

thanks for your help in advanced

well squats will be the mainstay, starting with 10 reps for a month or so to learn the move.

then gradually drop the reps so your doing around 5-6 for the most. Do sets of around 80-85% of 1RM, controlled down, as hard and fast as you can push it going up.

Plus lighter speed sets with 40-50% of 1RM, fast down, and fast up. Slow down near the lockout though

Jump squats with 20-30% of 1RM

Military presses and push presses, incline benchpress, bent over barbell or dumbell 70 degree rows, Romanian deadlifts (slow going down, explode coming up), single leg dumbell calf raises
Use the same rep and % schemes
Work your abs as well.

Olympic lifts as well, but unless you get taught it, I don't recommend them. You can do Jumping clean pulls with around 3-5 reps instead.

sets I'll leave that up to you, but I find for myself 2-3 worksets after warmup sets is more than sufficient. 1-2 speed sets are enough. Don't go to failure.
Take a week or 2 off every 8 weeks or so.

designing a personal program is a lot more complicated than this, just a general guide. I suggest you take a look at this vert program and others posted in this thread for ideas

http://www.drsquat.com/index.cfm?action=viewarticle&articleID=24

It will take about a month or two before you start seeing solid gains. You can expect about 3-4 inches after 3 months or so, judging by my results. It goes in spurts - my squat is going up all the time, but the VJ will gain couple inches here and there, and not continously in relation to my squat.

As as always constantly increase the weights in all exercises as you get stronger.

could i?

could i workout my legs 3 times a week? mon , wed , fri , or would that be too much? id be using like you said 85 percent of my max so......

depends.

if your a begineer - yes.

When you reach fairly heavy weights, as long as you don't go to failure, then you may still be able to do it.

Listen to your body - otherwise you may find yourself overtraining, getting sore knees and hips

do some dynamic stretching too and use some medicine ball work.
ex. plyo's with medicine ball in your hands, try and dunk a medicine ball (if you are close to dunking)

Check out Alto Bolden's vertical jump,.....


http://www.atoboldon.com/audiovideo/vertical.ram

the vids not working man

works for me, make sure you have the latest real player at a guess

he jumps onto a 5'4" box! That's 65inches.. amazing, since he's 5'9" 180lbs

coolcolj

how can i gain the most strength out of my squat ? right now im doing deep squats with 200lbs 3x5 after my olympic lifts. any suggestions in getting a better squat max as fast as possible? i was thinking about pyramiding my weights?

CoolColJ said:

I had a chat to a guy who runs a vertical leap training site.
He's called ANT, he's 5'9" and runs a 41" vertical leap.

This is what he can do a White boy too!


ANT

170lbs bodyweight

400lbsx4reps squat (to just below parallel)

Click to expand...

41 inches????

WOW.

He's my height too.

34" here. Can't dunk yet.

Always hit the back of the rim.

I can do 9.5 feet on the retractable ones though.
(Love those things....LOL)

Fonz

here is a pic of ANT in action

acouple more inchs thats me!!!!!!!!! except shorter

Read this on the Westside site


Just wanted to update you guys on my athlete's progess. I have been training a female high and triple jumper now for about 6 months. She is doing absolutly incredible in the weight room and I am excited to see how much her jumping has improved. She has been on Westside methods now for about 4 months. She is about 5'8" 145 pounds. Parallel squat is around 250 lbs. Glute hams for sets of 8-10 with 30 pounds on her back. Her form is excellent. Speed squats-135+purples (bands) for 10X3 was her latest. Easy! Explodes like a fire under her ass. Yesterday, just for kicks, we measured her thigs. 23 and 1/2 inches!!! And they are rock solid. Who says Westside doesnt add mass?? Her vertical has improved by 4 inches-in 6 months. Coaches around here can talk their shit till they are blue in the face. I KNOW what works-and I produce the results in the weight room and on the field. Thanks guys!

Oh yeah-she has NEVER done a power clean. How in the heck can she jump so damn good then?? LOL!

Rich Walker

-------

There are many ways to the top of the mountain

Good artcile froma good book

http://www.stadion.com/free/nltr0199.pdf

third article down - speed and time is important in squatting

Here is a pic of my current Standing VJ - as of this week.


With plenty of room to improve! I have rolls of fat to lose, plus another 200+lbs on my full olympic squat to gain.

Note the Arnie pics on the wall and the band on the bar

looking nice bro good work. my standing vert is weak but when i get a run i jump so high. my shoulder hits the bottom of the back board sometimes

Cool,

Looks good big guy. Keep it up and BTW, great thread man. Hopefully it helps some people get that rise up. 1

Thanks

My one legged run up jump sucks - its atcually 2 inches lower than my vertical jump

well irght now my one leg jump is shit because i dont practise it. but my two foot off a run is high! for a white guy and anyone for that matter

More great info


http://www.education.ed.ac.uk/field-ath/papers/dk.html

Depth Jumps

Some good info on depth jumps

Just remeber that the guy has considerable leg strength
squat (parallel I assume) 585x3, I still believe that the effects of depth jumps can only be maximised once you can full squat at least twice your own bodyweight. otehrwise contact time will be too high

http://icedog.t-mag.com/jforum1/javaforum/forum.1/threads/thread.67.html


Jason Randall (2003-01-01 14:41:04 125)
Interesting. Years ago when I first began doing plyometrics, I mail ordered a plyo book (which I've since lost dammit - and can't recall the name of) that advocated a direct correlation between the height of the box, and it's direct impact on specific performance parameters ie: a 28-31" box for vertical leap and power enhancement - which makes sense, as Christian pointed out that the degree of flexion will determine total motor unit recruitment/strength power outputs, as the increased heights will force one into a deeper squat position, with greater latency prior to the ballistic rebound - and lower heights 15-21" for enhanced, short range quickness, such as you 'first step' in football or basketball. Using those parameters, in addition to jump squats, I was able to increase my vertical from 27" to 36" in about 6 weeks, using an average box height of 30 inches. Thought provoking thread.


Jason Randall (2003-01-02 02:27:43 180)
Tony, The protocol that I followed for Depth Jumps was roughly as follows -Warm up for 10-15 minutes ? light squats, stationary bike, or even an upper body workout - make sure you have a good sweat and the knees are ready to go! the height of the box is relative, I think to the individuals strength and motor unit recruitment, if you find yourself bottoming out,with TOO much latency, lower the box. As you adapt neurologically, you can raise the height back up. As a general rule you shouldn?t drop much farther than parallel, before you explode UP. -Begin depth jumps from a height of 30-31 inches 6 sets x 10 reps with 120 seconds between sets -4 sets of depth jumps + hurdles from the same height on the depth jump ? the hurdle protocol as I recall called for specific preset lengths and heights on the hurdle jumps, approximately 36? high and 4-5 feet apart. What fascinated me about the hurdle jumps, just as in the depth jumps, is that the author specified the height of the hurdles and the distance betw the jumps into specific performance distances and applications ie: higher hurdles, closer together for maximal power and short distance (20-40 yards) sprinting, lower hurdles, farther apart for longer sprinting distances ie: 100-200 yds. Which in my experience, when followed, has largely held to be true. ? SO ? to complete a ?hurdle rep? do a standard depth jump then immediately transition UP and FORWARD into the hurdle series (approx 3-4 hurdles) I followed the above protocol for 6 weeks 2 days a week. I would finish each workout with 3 sets of jump squats while holding 50lb dumbbells in each hand, going to failure In each set. During this time, I?ll keep the volume on Leg day to a minimum, focusing on strength, as the neurological demands are HIGH! I can say the level of explosiveness gained, as well as stamina is Awesome. My genetic makeup is largely type IIb I think..based upon my size and lifts. I?m 5?11 and currently 210 at 12% - (my goal is to be an athlete, not an atypical body builder?not that bodybuilders aren?t ?athletes?) and NEED to lean out! When I attained the above results, I was 195lbs and well into single digits in BF. In order to maximize the above protocol, I?ve found it ideal embark on it after or midway thru a Strength phase, which I feel will help you maximize your new strength and mass, which will immediately Translate into increases in performance on the field/court. When I added the 9in to my vertical over that time period I had just gotten off of a 6 week strength phase, where my best triple in the squat was 585, up from a prev best of 494. That?s really the value of plyo, I think. It allows an athlete to actually USE the strength and mass gained from all the hours in the gym and at the training table, in an explosive, attacking fashion ? doesn?t it stand to reason that the strongest, most powerful athletes, SHOULD be the most explosive? Well, YES, provided that they can activate all that mass and power, on a DIME! That?s the value of doing this at the tail end, or AFTER the strength, or hypertrophy phase. The research that I?ve read, in addition to my amateur coaching experience tells me that, even if an athlete is NOT predisposed to a type IIb profile, or is known as an explosive athlete on the field, explosive training (whether it be plyo or oly lifts) will significantly increase the recruitment of those motor units, and significantly impact that individuals performance, provided that the muscular FOUNDATION is there. On a side note?I?ve also done depth jumps while using ?strength shoes? ?now I know a lot of cats on the forum Are skeptical of them, However, I?ve had nothing but good results with them. When using the ?shoes? in addition to the Above plyo w.o. I was able to drop my 40 to 4.58 (I was never a speed demon!) and got my vert to 38?then I blew my knee out In a game But there you have it. In a nutshell, that was the protocol, which you can tweak based upon your goals and Experience?and to keep Christian from pummeling my noggin...I?ll see if I can dig up that book somewhere?Lord forbid he?d whack me with a kettle bell ..heheee. The book also had some sweet hill training protocols?and TOW TRAINING from a car/truck?gitty up, I LOVE THIS STUFF..i?m all about the functionality of lookin? good and kickin? ass baby ?

another juicey link of researhc with lots of training implications

http://www.coachr.org/tpjrs.htm

Jump Squats

Good dialogue on Jump Squats I found searching through archives of a Thrower list

--------------------------
Ken Sprague
11:10 PST, 08/05/2000

Jeff,
I had Chris use sand-filled innertubes draped across the shoulders for resistance during squat jumps. I also had him doing ballistic push-ups with a sand bag perched on his upper back (you need a spotter for this one).

The key reason the jumps and ballistic push-ups have such a positive effect for the thrower is that they allow acceleration (w/ resistance) throughout the movement as the body leaves the floor. Conversely, w/ the equivalent barbell movements of squats and bench presses, the body/bar decelerates toward the end of the movement.

Although I've referred to them as resistance plyos, and there is certainly a plyo effect on landing followed by immediate concentric movement, I think the acceleration (through the concentric movement is the most beneficial aspect of the exercises.

In general, the "resistance plyos" are analogous to training like you compete--acceleration through the movement. [A good practical example of the results of this type training is Chris: he threw the 12#/16# shots approximately 68'/60' feet at the end of his high school senior season when able to bench press only 235#. But, the accelration training in the weight room precipitated his acceleration in the ring.]

-------------------------------------------

Andy Bloom
16:13 PST, 10/18/2000

Ken, I must respectfully disagree with your suggestion to fieldboy that you would choose jump squats if you only had to choose one form of squating to do. My reasoning is two-fold.

First, I did a full year of jump squats leading up to the '98 season. My improvement in jumping ability was incredible and I did throw farther, but I totally fried my electrical system. By the end of the season I was throwing two to three meters less in the discus and one meter less in the shot than I had hit early in the year. I had no leg explosiveness left and couldn't jump worth anything. The primary lesson that I learned was that there is a time and place for all styles of training. Since then I have used conventional power lifting early in the year to develop a good base and then made a slow transition over the course of the indoor and outdoor season to all jump squats. The result has been two straight years of PRs in my final competition of the year. This year I managed to keep my explosiveness despite a major injury. The other thing I have noticed is that doing exclusively jump squats does not help my discus as much as my shot put. This leads me to my second problem.

As far as I remember, fieldboy is a young discus thrower who also toys with the shot put. As a young athlete I don't think he should be subjecting his body to the rigors of jump squating. When I spent my year doing jump squats I was already a 700+ pound squatter, had a 400 pound power clean and a 37 inch vertical and 10'6" standing long jump. That is to say that I was already a developed athlete who needed to find something to take me to the next level so I decided to shock my system. There is no way that fieldboy is developed to this point, not to mention the fact that his core strength cannot be good enough to withstand the forces of jump squatting. I would also worry about subjecting a young high school athlete, who's growth plates have not fully closed, to those type of jarring movements. I don't know what the effect would be. I know you did these things for your son and he did well with it, but from what I understand, your son is built a good bit like me and can handle the loads you put on him. I wonder if fieldboy is built the same and what his history is.

Fieldboy, my answer to your question would be to do regular squats to just below parallel and add some light plyometric exercises.
-----------------------------------------------

Andy Bloom
15:07 PST, 10/19/2000

I started the year with 400 pounds for 3x12. this was at a time when i was doing 550 for 3x12 in a normal squat. I began the year with what i called explosive squats where i didn't actually break contact with the ground. I didn't break contact until I got down to sets of 6. My best that year was 575 x 3.

At the end of the year my jumps were 40 (VJ) and 11'8 (SLJ)

-----------------------------------------------
Ken Sprague
16:16 PST, 10/18/2000


Andy,
Thanks much for your post. I want to expand on my recommendations for jump squats--as a respectful rebuttal to your post. I would love to be sitting eye to eye with you during the discussion; but it's always great "talking" w/ you whether in person or at a great distance.

First, you noted that your "improvement in jumping ability was incredible and I did throw farther" after a year of jump squats. You go on to say that "by the end of the season" you were throwing 1 meter less, that you had "couldn't jump worth anything." In summation, squat jumps built tremendous explosive as evidenced by your jump, but then you lost it.

Putting those two facts together, could it not be the case that you were overtraining--too great a frequency or volume of jump squats?

I want to make a point here: acceleration training is subject to overtraining just as any other athletic activity.

Incidentally, just like strength, acceleration can be lost for one of two obvious reasons. One is overtraining; the second, quite naturally, is undertraining. Stop strength training and your strength will drop: Stop acceleration training, and the capacity to accelerate will diminish.

I'm happy that you still highly value jump squats as you noted making "a slow transition over the course of the indoor and outdoor season to all jump squats."

I flatly disagree about your assumption that any special power base needs to be developed before jump squats are added to the training routine.

As long as progressive resistance [the old stand-by] is followed, jump squats are as appropriate as standard squats.

For example, I had a group of girls--who had never lifted before--start jumps squats on day-one of training. The first weeks were w/ bodyweight, then a 20# sandbag, thereafter 30#, and up and up as the physical capacity adapted to the commensurate progressive resistance. No problems; the erectors, thighs, hips, spinal stabilizers, shoulder girdle, etc. have progressively adapted to the ever heavier loads. [They are having a similar experience to your improved jump--one is jumping approximately one foot higher, all are markedly improved.] Throws are continuously improving. The key is progressive resistance, just as would be the case for a novice squatter. Incidentally, Chris was doing squat jumps (as a ten-year-old) years before he performed a standard squat.

Two notes which weren't directly addressed in your post: first, the intensity (and protein degradation) of jump squats mandates infrequent workouts--once every 7 - 10 days; second, in my opinion, they should never be performed w/ a barbell--that's just asking for trauma. The bar often localizes the forces on the spine--the sand bag spreads the force making the lift actually comfortable on the shoulders.

One more point: the resistance of the sand bag isn't going to allow the beghinner or intermediate lifter get far off the ground; hence, there isn't going to be much force on landing. I suspect there would likely be more force generated on landing from shooting a lay-up---because of the drop from a greater height.

I continue to recommend the jump squat for any athlete wanting to increase explosiveness.

Always your friend,

Ken


Ken Sprague
17:23 PST, 10/19/2000


Todd,
First, I'm going to ask a question before answering yours. Have you ever tried an "easy squat" bar? I ask because I avoided the easy squat bar for many years, out of habit I guess. But I was an instant convert after my first trial run. I push the easy squat bar because it's perfect for self-assisted reps--and the athlete has the advantage of a generally natural movement. The design also places relatively more stress on the legs than the back--an important factor when using >1RM weights.

I don't have any experience doing assisted squats on a Smith machine. I don't know first hand how that might work in practice. The Smith machine is great for assisted incline presses--but that doesn't help you since you need a spotter (to assist) for that movement. If you try the Smith machine for self-assisted squats, please let me know how the experience turns out.

As for squat jumps with dumbbells, they're better than no squat jumps at all. The problem w/ dumbbells: the athlete tends to jump with unnaturally upright posture. [Try squat jumping w/out any resistance and follow that w/ jumps using dumbbells (or holding a plate)--you'll immediately appreciate the difference in form.] A natural jumping posture--which is not inhibited by a sandbag on the shoulders--is more dynamic, working the erectors into the movement to a greater degree. The natural jumping posture can be accomplished w/ a sandbag or vest.

There is one more major concern w/ dumbbells--imagine the problem when you work up to jumping w/ very heavy dumbbells. Conversely, imagine the relative ease of having an equivalent weight in sand spread across your shoulders and traps.

I know this response isn't the most concrete advice--you're going to have to experiment, perhaps to find an intermediate approach, given the limits of the garage and training alone.

I would heartily recommend that you at least try one 50# sand-filled innertube--you can snatch it over your shoulders and toss it into a corner when finished.

Ken

-----------------------------------------------

Ken Sprague
19:08 PST, 10/19/2000


Coach K,
Your post of 16:54 (10/18/00) is very interesting!

Your assumption is absolutely correct: "the greatest benefit...[of] jump squats [is] the muscle fiber recruitment that goes on in explosive, upward drive of the lift." The training benefit is improved explosive extension and thrust of the legs, hips, and erectors.

You go on to ask an interesting and complex question (hopefully I'm correct in my condensation): As a supplement to standard squats, which is safer, squat jumps or "intense" plyometrics (hopping stadium stairs, depth jumps, etc)?

Although I've trained many athletes (males/females/adults/children), I've never observed a single injury during squat jumps. Keep in mind that I won't use anything but sand bags as resistance.

On the other hand, I have observed many injuries during traditional "intense" plyometric exercises--particularly among larger, male athletes such as football linemen and throwers.

I think the difference is the generally controlled two-leg landing of the squat jumps as compared to the often unbalanced landing of many plyometric movements; and, the landing forces of squat jumps are much less than would be the case as in some plyometrics such as depth jumps.

[Note, however, there is a true plyometric effect on landing-and-subsequent-extension during squat jumps. But, the generally controlled movement makes the effect less risky to attain.]

The last point of your post questions the potential for longterm detrimental effects to the spine and growth plates of younger, developing athletes?

Frankly, I doubt there is an inappropriate risk to the younger athlete in performing jump squats. Calculating forces at landing, there is less force on the spine and growth plates during a jump squat than during a typical two-legged landing from a lay-up--the relative height of the drop from the highest point of the respective jumps is the telling factor. [This comparison calculates even w/ unreasonable resistance on the shoulders.] Of course, imagine the forces when landing on one leg--and basketball players keep growing taller.

Incidentally, hopscotch is a great kindergarten plyometric--not many kids are hurt from the activity.

One more random thought: the growth plate scare kept younger athletes from participating in regular weight training activities a generation ago. I hope that scare doesn't find renewed life w/ squat jumps--or hopscotch. Yes, proceed cautiously w/ progressive resistance, but the tens-of-minutes per week of squat jumps won't harm growth plates.

I hope this adds to the dialogue.

Ken

One more point: the resistance of the sand bag isn't going to allow the beghinner or intermediate lifter get far off the ground; hence, there isn't going to be much force on landing. I suspect there would likely be more force generated on landing from shooting a lay-up---because of the drop from a greater height.

I continue to recommend the jump squat for any athlete wanting to increase explosiveness.

i totally disagree with this. the equation for force is f=ma.
hes adding mass and decreasing acceleration. the force is still the same.

he's talking about eccentric landing forces

a hammer dropped on your head from one inch doesn't hurt that much, from 50m it will kill

wasn6t he saying with more weight you cant get up as high?

Yes, and so when you land, less shock/impact.

ya so he is saying that with less weight you get higher. so more acceleration.

with more mass you have less acceleration. but they balance eachother out dont they? since everything falls at 9.8m/s^2.
correct me if im wrong.

No, impact forces are greater when you fall from a higher distance.

drop down from 6 inches with 135lbs on your back, not too bad. drop from 3 feet with bodyweight - feels lot harder on your body.

yes that is true.
but if you do the calculations. the force would end up being the same.
if the athlete puts out the same amount of power for each jump squat (with weight and with out) the force will be the same.

your talking about the force require to propel the body into the air, I'm talking about landing/impact forces!


Yes and no in your case, the brain doesn't work in a linear fashion. Putting a weight on shoulders will make jump differently, most probbaly harder. It is overload to the msucles and tendons, more stretch reflex potential when you squat down before jumping.

In the same way that one can squat more by adding weight on the bar, the same thing applies with jump squats, over time you will generate more force with overload vs just jumping with bodyweight.

lol i think there is some miss communication. i am talkin about the force when hitting the ground. like i said the equation for force is

force=mass x acceleration

if you increase the mass you dont go as high (less acceleration) the force of the landing is still the same if the acceleration is higher and the weight is lower(less mass).

this is true only if the power of the athlete it consistent.

MJ's vert and studies

http://isb.ri.ccf.org/biomch-l/archives/biomch-l-1999-05/00022.html


Abstract:

MICHAEL JORDAN=92S VERTICAL JUMP. =20
Krugh J, LeVeau B. University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Chapel =
Hill, NC.

PURPOSE: The purpose of this study, which was part of an advanced =
master=92s motion analysis class project in 1983, was to determine =
Michael Jordan=92s maximum vertical jump.
=20
SUBJECT: Michael Jordan=20

METHODS: Surface markers: Left lateral malleolus, left femoral =
epicondyle, left greater trochanter, left pelvic crest, and right distal =
phalanges of digits 2 and 3 of the hand.

Tasks (in order) were:=20
Vertical reach while standing flat-footed - baseline
Vertical reach during a jump from standing
Vertical reach during a jump from running
Vertical reach during a 1 hand dunk=20
Vertical reach during a 2 hand dunk

All tasks, except baseline vertical reach were done with free swing of =
the upper limb(s). Equipment / instrumentation: Camera, lighting, =
markers, meter stick, and standard basketball. Location: Fetzer =
Gymnasium, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

DATA ANALYSIS:
Distance measurements were analyzed by comparison to a meter stick in =
view of the camera. Displacement measurements of reach (pelvis) involved =
measurement of vertical height to the tip of fingers 2 and 3 (pelvis) =
during a task minus vertical height to the tip of fingers 2 and 3 =
(pelvis) during bilateral flat-footed stance. Velocity measurements were =
analyzed by dividing vertical height distance traveled divided by time =
taken for the tasks. A VanGuard Motion Analyzer was used to analyze =
motion frame by frame.

RESULTS:=20
Maximum measurements:=20
Vertical reach while standing flat-footed 93.67 in.
Floor to pelvic crest while standing 49.00 in.
Vertical reach displacement during a jump from standing 35.93 in.
Vertical displacement of the pelvis during a jump from running 38.07 in.
Vertical velocity during a jump from running 701.00 o/sec.=20
Vertical reach displacement during a jump from running 45.76 in.
Vertical reach displacement during a 1 hand dunk 41.70 in.
Vertical reach displacement during a 2 hand dunk 40.93 in.

During the vertical reach from standing, push from the floor was with =
both feet. During the vertical reach during a jump from running, push =
from the floor was with one foot and momentum of the body, two upper =
limbs, and one lower limb was used to the maximum.=20

CONCLUSION / CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Maximum displacement for vertical reach =
was achieved with a jump from a running start, a 2 hand dunk, a 1 hand =
dunk, and a jump from standing, respectively. This is consistent with =
use of momentum of the body and limbs to assist with the vertical =
displacement. Michael Jordan=92s vertical jump ability during several =
tasks provides a standard with which athletic achievement by others can =
be compared.

Schmidtbleicher's "reactive strength resources" test: He compares squat
jump performance with drop jumps from heights of 16, 24, 32, 40 and 48
cm; possibly up to 56 cm, depending on qualification level. A novice
athlete's best drop jump performance may be 20-25% below his/her squat
jump, indicating large reactive resources. This can be interpreted as a
functional deficit in one's short-response SSC abilities, with the
subsequent need to emphasize reactive movements (such as drop jumps,
vertical jumps or countermovement jumps) in training. In contrast, an
elite athlete's drop jump result may be up to 20-25% greater than
his/her squat jump, indicating small reactive resources. In this case,
basic strength should be emphasized through hypertrophic and/or neural
adaptations in order to create "new" reactive resources.

I can't believe I didn't see this thread before??? LOL

I was a high jumper at Indiana Univeristy... I got over 7'

What do you need to know about my training?

Not that anyone cares after 5 pages of posting!!!

C-ditty

Citruscide said:

I can't believe I didn't see this thread before??? LOL

I was a high jumper at Indiana Univeristy... I got over 7'

What do you need to know about my training?

Not that anyone cares after 5 pages of posting!!!

C-ditty

Click to expand...

C, what's your vertical like?

Re: MJ's vert and studies

CoolColJ said:

http://isb.ri.ccf.org/biomch-l/archives/biomch-l-1999-05/00022.html


Location: Fetzer =
Gymnasium, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

Click to expand...

I played some basketball there last week and have physiology classes in there 3 times a week

gettinlarger said:

C, what's your vertical like?

Click to expand...

NOW?!?! LOL... it's probably fairly good.. above average.

I remember my vertical leap in collage was around 40"... it was through the roof... I think I tested at 42" once.. but I didn't believe it, as a week later the measure was off... (wall)

I'm 6'1" and I cleared for my HIGHEST leap 7'2 and 3/4"

Something I can look back at and be proud

C-ditty

Citruscide, or anyone else, what would you recommend as part of a basic vertical leap training program?

my 1rep max for squats is 205 at a bodyweight of 175 so right now I'm focusing on getting that number higher (using 2-5 rep sets) and also doing some 8-12 rep sets of straight leg deads to bring up my lagging back and hamstrings, and some lighter 8-10 rep sets of squats done as fast as possible, to work on form and speed. That's working nicely for now, any recommendations of what else to add? I'm thinking I should probably add an olympic lift like power cleans or jump snatches or something.

Citruscide said:

NOW?!?! LOL... it's probably fairly good.. above average.

I remember my vertical leap in collage was around 40"... it was through the roof... I think I tested at 42" once.. but I didn't believe it, as a week later the measure was off... (wall)

I'm 6'1" and I cleared for my HIGHEST leap 7'2 and 3/4"

Something I can look back at and be proud

C-ditty

Click to expand...

Nice. I think mine's around 36". That's a rough estimate. At my work (at a liquor store) we have signs in the aisles that explain where shit is (like a superkmarket). I can jump and hit them. I had another guy, my height, stand underneath it with his hand up, and I guesstimated about 3 feet to the sign. Maybe I'll measure it one day to be sure.

Tagio said:

Citruscide, or anyone else, what would you recommend as part of a basic vertical leap training program?

my 1rep max for squats is 205 at a bodyweight of 175 so right now I'm focusing on getting that number higher (using 2-5 rep sets) and also doing some 8-12 rep sets of straight leg deads to bring up my lagging back and hamstrings, and some lighter 8-10 rep sets of squats done as fast as possible, to work on form and speed. That's working nicely for now, any recommendations of what else to add? I'm thinking I should probably add an olympic lift like power cleans or jump snatches or something.

Click to expand...

If you want my honest advice, I'd AX all the weights and shit... I mean, working out with weights is great... back in those days, I think I squatted 275 ish... so I could get it good (back then, I could do back squats, instead of front squats) -- I weighed 165 and could do 275 for around 6-8... my legs were strong as nails, but I didn't get them that way by lifting... at least not my verticle...

I did alot of box jumping work... but not like hey, one or two run throughs.. i'd do it for around 30 minutes straight... I would collapse afterward (then moving on to the weighted jump ropes where I would jump as high as I could vertically while jump roping... for around 5 minutes at a time)... running up and down stairs at a rapid pace... hopping up and down stairs on one leg... things like this REALLY REALLY jacked up my verticle

I came into college with a 36" verticle, I increased it to a recorded 42"... although I'm suspect... you give me some running room, and my jump w0uld be off the charts... lol literally... they only went up to 60"

C-ditty

Something that might be of interest to everyone here... I am putting together some video clips, and written articles about the science behind and benefits of TRUE plyometric workouts... I'll be starting this process in march... I hope to have it completed in summer some time... as it will take me some time to get back into that sort of TRAINING shape... and to do the videos, write the articles and such...

I do think it is the best way to increase your verticle... standard weightlifting is great to work the muscles... but I don't think it is NEARLY as effective as straight plyometrics... and I've trained with some world class guys.

C-ditty

Yeah but plyos is just one one area of the total wheel of conditioning. You can shorten your stretch reflex times as much as you want from plyos, but without the ability to deliver a lot of force in that 0.1-0.2 secs it takes to jump you ain;t leaving the ground in a hurry

And that's one reason why heavy slow weights will not work after a while becuase , you can't generate the force in 0.1 of a sec. That's where sub-maximal weights moved ballisticly come in.
ie jump squats, olympic style lifts, speed squats etc

having said that, you still need to be very strong, if you can full squat 500lbs you can bounce around with 250 pretty easily

My vert is climbing again. I am over 40 and I'm bulking. you gotta love this. I'll have some video for ya'll shortly. I know I've been stalling but it will be well worth it for someone. Even if that someone happens to be me.

CoolColJ said:

Yeah but plyos is just one one area of the total wheel of conditioning. You can shorten your stretch reflex times as much as you want from plyos, but without the ability to deliver a lot of force in that 0.1-0.2 secs it takes to jump you ain;t leaving the ground in a hurry

And that's one reason why heavy slow weights will not work after a while becuase , you can't generate the force in 0.1 of a sec. That's where sub-maximal weights moved ballisticly come in.
ie jump squats, olympic style lifts, speed squats etc

having said that, you still need to be very strong, if you can full squat 500lbs you can bounce around with 250 pretty easily

Click to expand...

Hey... Nationals... track and field... enough said.

Just razzing you CoolCol

Now a days, if I wanted to jump that high, I'd agree with you broly.. I'm 240 right now and I don't think that staight plyometrics would help me attain the same verticle.

Back in the day, I weighed 165lbs, was squatting 275 for reps... and could probably 1RM around 350 if I remember correctly... so I HAD the strength in my legs to do that...

What i needed for high jump, was an explosive jump with a TWIST... my abs were crutial... calves were dynamic and really were hit with the apex of my training... so were my hammies...

The plyometrics consisted of around 75% of my training, 20% being sprinting and another 10% being in the weight room.

At 6'1", I had a great verticle LEAP. And when I'm going over the bar, in the flop... I am not using my 42" verticle leap... I'm using centripetal force to pull me over the bar, to help carry me... it's an art really.. I was the shortest jumper at my school (that amounted to anything) and I was definately the shortest white dude I came across... (again, that did anything)

Now if you want to dunk a basketball, standing straight under the hoop, without moving, but jumping straight up... no problem... lol

C-ditty

Well you could squat around twice your own bodyweight which is pretty much the requirements for depth jumping for optimal gains

CoolColJ said:

Well you could squat around twice your own bodyweight which is pretty much the requirements for depth jumping for optimal gains

Click to expand...

A-HEM *pointing to plaque on wall that says "NATIONALS"*

LOL -- sorry bro... I just picture it and it sounds funny.

Yeah... the squatting thing wasn't something I developed in the gym... from all my OTHER training, I could do that amount of weight... I don't ever remember KILLING myself ot increase the weights...

C-ditty

Could either of you elaborate a little on what you do for box/plyometric work? I understand what a depth landing, or a depth jump, or a jump squat IS, but I have no clue how you make that kind of exercise into a workout. Do you do sets that last until you're too tired to do anymore, or sets of 15, or what? I feel like I'd be doing too much, turning it into some kind of cardio, or too little, not getting any effects at all.


That said, my legs are pretty weak compared to my bodyweight, so I don't think I need to add plyometrics just yet. In fact, because of all the aggressive inline I've done (which is basically a million vertical leaps, depth landings and depth jumps), I think my jump is really good considering just how weak my lower body actually is.

posted at tmag forums - I personally wouldn't do depth jumps in such highr eps, no more than 5, 3 is better. Also this guy had some serious strength base.

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Interesting. Years ago when I first began doing plyometrics, I mail ordered a plyo book (which I've since lost dammit - and can't recall the name of) that advocated a direct correlation between the height of the box, and it's direct impact on specific performance parameters ie: a 28-31" box for vertical leap and power enhancement - which makes sense, as Christian pointed out that the degree of flexion will determine total motor unit recruitment/strength power outputs, as the increased heights will force one into a deeper squat position, with greater latency prior to the ballistic rebound - and lower heights 15-21" for enhanced, short range quickness, such as you 'first step' in football or basketball. Using those parameters, in addition to jump squats, I was able to increase my vertical from 27" to 36" in about 6 weeks, using an average box height of 30 inches. Thought provoking thread.

Tony, The protocol that I followed for Depth Jumps was roughly as follows

-Warm up for 10-15 minutes ? light squats, stationary bike, or even an upper body workout - make sure you have a good sweat and the knees are ready to go!
the height of the box is relative, I think to the individuals strength and motor unit recruitment, if you find yourself bottoming out,with TOO much latency, lower the box. As you adapt neurologically, you can raise the height back up. As a general rule you shouldn?t drop much farther than parallel, before you explode UP.
-Begin depth jumps from a height of 30-31 inches 6 sets x 10 reps with 120 seconds between sets
-4 sets of depth jumps + hurdles from the same height on the depth jump ?
the hurdle protocol as I recall called for specific preset lengths and heights on the hurdle jumps, approximately 36?
high and 4-5 feet apart. What fascinated me about the hurdle jumps, just as in the depth jumps, is that the author
specified the height of the hurdles and the distance betw the jumps into specific performance distances and
applications ie: higher hurdles, closer together for maximal power and short distance (20-40 yards)
sprinting, lower hurdles, farther apart for longer sprinting distances ie: 100-200 yds. Which in my experience,
when followed, has largely held to be true. ? SO ? to complete a ?hurdle rep? do a standard depth jump
then immediately transition UP and FORWARD into the hurdle series (approx 3-4 hurdles)

I followed the above protocol for 6 weeks 2 days a week.
I would finish each workout with 3 sets of jump squats while holding 50lb dumbbells in each hand, going to failure
In each set. During this time, I?ll keep the volume on Leg day to a minimum, focusing on strength,
as the neurological demands are HIGH! I can say the level of explosiveness gained, as well as stamina is
Awesome. My genetic makeup is largely type IIb I think..based upon my size and lifts. I?m 5?11 and currently
210 at 12% - (my goal is to be an athlete, not an atypical body builder?not that bodybuilders aren?t ?athletes?) and NEED to lean out!
When I attained the above results, I was 195lbs and well into single digits in BF.

In order to maximize the above protocol, I?ve found it ideal embark on it after or midway thru a
Strength phase, which I feel will help you maximize your new strength and mass, which will immediately
Translate into increases in performance on the field/court. When I added the 9in to my vertical over that time period
I had just gotten off of a 6 week strength phase, where my best triple in the squat was 585, up from a prev best of
494. That?s really the value of plyo, I think. It allows an athlete to actually USE the strength and mass gained from
all the hours in the gym and at the training table, in an explosive, attacking fashion ? doesn?t it stand to reason
that the strongest, most powerful athletes, SHOULD be the most explosive? Well, YES, provided that they can
activate all that mass and power, on a DIME! That?s the value of doing this at the tail end, or AFTER the strength, or
hypertrophy phase. The research that I?ve read, in addition to my amateur coaching experience tells me that, even if an
athlete is NOT predisposed to a type IIb profile, or is known as an explosive athlete on the field, explosive training (whether
it be plyo or oly lifts) will significantly increase the recruitment of those motor units, and significantly impact that individuals
performance, provided that the muscular FOUNDATION is there.

On a side note?I?ve also done depth jumps while using ?strength shoes? ?now I know a lot of cats on the forum
Are skeptical of them, However, I?ve had nothing but good results with them. When using the ?shoes? in addition to the
Above plyo w.o. I was able to drop my 40 to 4.58 (I was never a speed demon!) and got my vert to 38?then I blew my knee out
In a game But there you have it. In a nutshell, that was the protocol, which you can tweak based upon your goals and
Experience?and to keep Christian from pummeling my noggin...I?ll see if I can dig up that book somewhere?Lord forbid he?d whack me with a kettle bell ..heheee. The book also had some sweet hill training protocols?and TOW TRAINING from a car/truck?gitty up,
I LOVE THIS STUFF..i?m all about the functionality of lookin? good and kickin? ass baby ? Christian, Coach Davies, these new forums are AWESOME.

Jump Squat Info from a Thrower forum archives -

Of interest

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Ken Sprague
11:10 PST, 08/05/2000

Jeff,
I had Chris use sand-filled innertubes draped across the shoulders for resistance during squat jumps. I also had him doing ballistic push-ups with a sand bag perched on his upper back (you need a spotter for this one).

The key reason the jumps and ballistic push-ups have such a positive effect for the thrower is that they allow acceleration (w/ resistance) throughout the movement as the body leaves the floor. Conversely, w/ the equivalent barbell movements of squats and bench presses, the body/bar decelerates toward the end of the movement.

Although I've referred to them as resistance plyos, and there is certainly a plyo effect on landing followed by immediate concentric movement, I think the acceleration (through the concentric movement is the most beneficial aspect of the exercises.

In general, the "resistance plyos" are analogous to training like you compete--acceleration through the movement. [A good practical example of the results of this type training is Chris: he threw the 12#/16# shots approximately 68'/60' feet at the end of his high school senior season when able to bench press only 235#. But, the accelration training in the weight room precipitated his acceleration in the ring.]

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Andy Bloom
16:13 PST, 10/18/2000

Ken, I must respectfully disagree with your suggestion to fieldboy that you would choose jump squats if you only had to choose one form of squating to do. My reasoning is two-fold.

First, I did a full year of jump squats leading up to the '98 season. My improvement in jumping ability was incredible and I did throw farther, but I totally fried my electrical system. By the end of the season I was throwing two to three meters less in the discus and one meter less in the shot than I had hit early in the year. I had no leg explosiveness left and couldn't jump worth anything. The primary lesson that I learned was that there is a time and place for all styles of training. Since then I have used conventional power lifting early in the year to develop a good base and then made a slow transition over the course of the indoor and outdoor season to all jump squats. The result has been two straight years of PRs in my final competition of the year. This year I managed to keep my explosiveness despite a major injury. The other thing I have noticed is that doing exclusively jump squats does not help my discus as much as my shot put. This leads me to my second problem.

As far as I remember, fieldboy is a young discus thrower who also toys with the shot put. As a young athlete I don't think he should be subjecting his body to the rigors of jump squating. When I spent my year doing jump squats I was already a 700+ pound squatter, had a 400 pound power clean and a 37 inch vertical and 10'6" standing long jump. That is to say that I was already a developed athlete who needed to find something to take me to the next level so I decided to shock my system. There is no way that fieldboy is developed to this point, not to mention the fact that his core strength cannot be good enough to withstand the forces of jump squatting. I would also worry about subjecting a young high school athlete, who's growth plates have not fully closed, to those type of jarring movements. I don't know what the effect would be. I know you did these things for your son and he did well with it, but from what I understand, your son is built a good bit like me and can handle the loads you put on him. I wonder if fieldboy is built the same and what his history is.

Fieldboy, my answer to your question would be to do regular squats to just below parallel and add some light plyometric exercises.
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Andy Bloom
15:07 PST, 10/19/2000

I started the year with 400 pounds for 3x12. this was at a time when i was doing 550 for 3x12 in a normal squat. I began the year with what i called explosive squats where i didn't actually break contact with the ground. I didn't break contact until I got down to sets of 6. My best that year was 575 x 3.

At the end of the year my jumps were 40 (VJ) and 11'8 (SLJ)

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Ken Sprague
16:16 PST, 10/18/2000


Andy,
Thanks much for your post. I want to expand on my recommendations for jump squats--as a respectful rebuttal to your post. I would love to be sitting eye to eye with you during the discussion; but it's always great "talking" w/ you whether in person or at a great distance.

First, you noted that your "improvement in jumping ability was incredible and I did throw farther" after a year of jump squats. You go on to say that "by the end of the season" you were throwing 1 meter less, that you had "couldn't jump worth anything." In summation, squat jumps built tremendous explosive as evidenced by your jump, but then you lost it.

Putting those two facts together, could it not be the case that you were overtraining--too great a frequency or volume of jump squats?

I want to make a point here: acceleration training is subject to overtraining just as any other athletic activity.

Incidentally, just like strength, acceleration can be lost for one of two obvious reasons. One is overtraining; the second, quite naturally, is undertraining. Stop strength training and your strength will drop: Stop acceleration training, and the capacity to accelerate will diminish.

I'm happy that you still highly value jump squats as you noted making "a slow transition over the course of the indoor and outdoor season to all jump squats."

I flatly disagree about your assumption that any special power base needs to be developed before jump squats are added to the training routine.

As long as progressive resistance [the old stand-by] is followed, jump squats are as appropriate as standard squats.

For example, I had a group of girls--who had never lifted before--start jumps squats on day-one of training. The first weeks were w/ bodyweight, then a 20# sandbag, thereafter 30#, and up and up as the physical capacity adapted to the commensurate progressive resistance. No problems; the erectors, thighs, hips, spinal stabilizers, shoulder girdle, etc. have progressively adapted to the ever heavier loads. [They are having a similar experience to your improved jump--one is jumping approximately one foot higher, all are markedly improved.] Throws are continuously improving. The key is progressive resistance, just as would be the case for a novice squatter. Incidentally, Chris was doing squat jumps (as a ten-year-old) years before he performed a standard squat.

Two notes which weren't directly addressed in your post: first, the intensity (and protein degradation) of jump squats mandates infrequent workouts--once every 7 - 10 days; second, in my opinion, they should never be performed w/ a barbell--that's just asking for trauma. The bar often localizes the forces on the spine--the sand bag spreads the force making the lift actually comfortable on the shoulders.

One more point: the resistance of the sand bag isn't going to allow the beghinner or intermediate lifter get far off the ground; hence, there isn't going to be much force on landing. I suspect there would likely be more force generated on landing from shooting a lay-up---because of the drop from a greater height.

I continue to recommend the jump squat for any athlete wanting to increase explosiveness.

Always your friend,

Ken


Ken Sprague
17:23 PST, 10/19/2000


Todd,
First, I'm going to ask a question before answering yours. Have you ever tried an "easy squat" bar? I ask because I avoided the easy squat bar for many years, out of habit I guess. But I was an instant convert after my first trial run. I push the easy squat bar because it's perfect for self-assisted reps--and the athlete has the advantage of a generally natural movement. The design also places relatively more stress on the legs than the back--an important factor when using >1RM weights.

I don't have any experience doing assisted squats on a Smith machine. I don't know first hand how that might work in practice. The Smith machine is great for assisted incline presses--but that doesn't help you since you need a spotter (to assist) for that movement. If you try the Smith machine for self-assisted squats, please let me know how the experience turns out.

As for squat jumps with dumbbells, they're better than no squat jumps at all. The problem w/ dumbbells: the athlete tends to jump with unnaturally upright posture. [Try squat jumping w/out any resistance and follow that w/ jumps using dumbbells (or holding a plate)--you'll immediately appreciate the difference in form.] A natural jumping posture--which is not inhibited by a sandbag on the shoulders--is more dynamic, working the erectors into the movement to a greater degree. The natural jumping posture can be accomplished w/ a sandbag or vest.

There is one more major concern w/ dumbbells--imagine the problem when you work up to jumping w/ very heavy dumbbells. Conversely, imagine the relative ease of having an equivalent weight in sand spread across your shoulders and traps.

I know this response isn't the most concrete advice--you're going to have to experiment, perhaps to find an intermediate approach, given the limits of the garage and training alone.

I would heartily recommend that you at least try one 50# sand-filled innertube--you can snatch it over your shoulders and toss it into a corner when finished.

Ken

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Ken Sprague
19:08 PST, 10/19/2000


Coach K,
Your post of 16:54 (10/18/00) is very interesting!

Your assumption is absolutely correct: "the greatest benefit...[of] jump squats [is] the muscle fiber recruitment that goes on in explosive, upward drive of the lift." The training benefit is improved explosive extension and thrust of the legs, hips, and erectors.

You go on to ask an interesting and complex question (hopefully I'm correct in my condensation): As a supplement to standard squats, which is safer, squat jumps or "intense" plyometrics (hopping stadium stairs, depth jumps, etc)?

Although I've trained many athletes (males/females/adults/children), I've never observed a single injury during squat jumps. Keep in mind that I won't use anything but sand bags as resistance.

On the other hand, I have observed many injuries during traditional "intense" plyometric exercises--particularly among larger, male athletes such as football linemen and throwers.

I think the difference is the generally controlled two-leg landing of the squat jumps as compared to the often unbalanced landing of many plyometric movements; and, the landing forces of squat jumps are much less than would be the case as in some plyometrics such as depth jumps.

[Note, however, there is a true plyometric effect on landing-and-subsequent-extension during squat jumps. But, the generally controlled movement makes the effect less risky to attain.]

The last point of your post questions the potential for longterm detrimental effects to the spine and growth plates of younger, developing athletes?

Frankly, I doubt there is an inappropriate risk to the younger athlete in performing jump squats. Calculating forces at landing, there is less force on the spine and growth plates during a jump squat than during a typical two-legged landing from a lay-up--the relative height of the drop from the highest point of the respective jumps is the telling factor. [This comparison calculates even w/ unreasonable resistance on the shoulders.] Of course, imagine the forces when landing on one leg--and basketball players keep growing taller.

Incidentally, hopscotch is a great kindergarten plyometric--not many kids are hurt from the activity.

One more random thought: the growth plate scare kept younger athletes from participating in regular weight training activities a generation ago. I hope that scare doesn't find renewed life w/ squat jumps--or hopscotch. Yes, proceed cautiously w/ progressive resistance, but the tens-of-minutes per week of squat jumps won't harm growth plates.

I hope this adds to the dialogue.

Ken

Tagio said:

Could either of you elaborate a little on what you do for box/plyometric work? I understand what a depth landing, or a depth jump, or a jump squat IS, but I have no clue how you make that kind of exercise into a workout. Do you do sets that last until you're too tired to do anymore, or sets of 15, or what? I feel like I'd be doing too much, turning it into some kind of cardio, or too little, not getting any effects at all.


That said, my legs are pretty weak compared to my bodyweight, so I don't think I need to add plyometrics just yet. In fact, because of all the aggressive inline I've done (which is basically a million vertical leaps, depth landings and depth jumps), I think my jump is really good considering just how weak my lower body actually is.

Click to expand...

Well, the workout I did is definatly not something that a "weak lower body" could step into... maybe at a lower intensity and changing the workout to reflect it though (but that'd be a different workout, right?)

I'd have 3 boxes lined up (as an example) the smalles being 12" the second being 24" and the third being 36"... there were times I'd have a 40" box as well... I'd jump down, jump up jump down jump up... then run back to the beginning and do it again... I have DONE a routine like that for UP to 30 minutes... I had amazing endurance... I collapesed after it... but I think that someone who wasn't geared for that, would collapse.

I did many other exercises as well, however.

C-ditty

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