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Time for a HEATED DEBATE
- Thread starter Texas Monster
- Start date
Sherk
New member
I just tore through my filing cabinet looking for my last blood work but came up empty handed but I'll share my thought anyways. I wondered the same thing while on my last cycle so I used myself as a guinea pig. My cycle was a simple sustanon only cycle at 400mg a week for 10 weeks. After my my last injection I waited until week three. I ran no pct, HCG or any kind of supplement at all between my last injection and getting my blood drawn three weeks after. My test came back at 297 ng/dL. My cholesterol was just past the healthy rang and my LH was dead. I wish i could find that blood test and post more accurate numbers. Yes my gear was legit and from a very reputable source. So basically the conclusion I came to was that after the 7 day half life of the longer esters, my T levels started dropping dramatically, not like a lot of people think. It obviously doesn't get cut in half every week that goes by but more on how fast your body metabolizes. JMO.
When we do right nobody remembers, when we do wrong nobody forgets. H.A.M.C
When we do right nobody remembers, when we do wrong nobody forgets. H.A.M.C
2 quick things because on page 1 things were addressed well.
1. yes juice does build up in the body. a long estered test for example will take weeks to peak in the blood. is it working after injection? YES it is i'm not argueing that. but is it peaking? NO.. how could it be peaking in the blood that fast? it takes weeks to build up to peak levels and level off... as you make injections the esters are picking up after each other and trickling away, as you continue injections it builds to a higher and higher level like stairs climbing.. if you inject every 3.5 days then there will be a small bump up and up. once the amount you have been on equals the speed of the esters dropping away you have reached peak levels and now are leveling off and you are walking on a hilly surface and no long climbing.. but your blood levels will fluctuate slightly until you stop injecting.
2. there is no way after 14 days even if the half life was 8 days is not active in the body assuming you were juicing say 500mg a week .. it would have built up to high levels in the body and take much longer than 14 days to trickle away. in my experience the stuff is in my body a good 4 weeks after last pin.. i know cause I have bloods as I cycle AAS off and on. now if you do a couple shots then stop that is different, or if you are running a small HRT dose that is difference as well but the OP is not talking about HRT doses. in that case you are 100% correct because with HRT doses they are once a week and they are much smaller amounts so it would trickle away to very low levels much faster, but if we are talking about 500mg a week or more dosage which most everyone does then you are not correct, there will be AMPLE amounts of test in the body leftover after 2 weeks if we are talking about cyp.
as far as when to start PCT we don't disagree on that necessarily. after last injection kickstart and spread out hcg and HMG for about 3 weeks. then start PCT and run it about 5-6 weeks. assuming the cycle was 12-14 weeks that should work well.
1. yes juice does build up in the body. a long estered test for example will take weeks to peak in the blood. is it working after injection? YES it is i'm not argueing that. but is it peaking? NO.. how could it be peaking in the blood that fast? it takes weeks to build up to peak levels and level off... as you make injections the esters are picking up after each other and trickling away, as you continue injections it builds to a higher and higher level like stairs climbing.. if you inject every 3.5 days then there will be a small bump up and up. once the amount you have been on equals the speed of the esters dropping away you have reached peak levels and now are leveling off and you are walking on a hilly surface and no long climbing.. but your blood levels will fluctuate slightly until you stop injecting.
2. there is no way after 14 days even if the half life was 8 days is not active in the body assuming you were juicing say 500mg a week .. it would have built up to high levels in the body and take much longer than 14 days to trickle away. in my experience the stuff is in my body a good 4 weeks after last pin.. i know cause I have bloods as I cycle AAS off and on. now if you do a couple shots then stop that is different, or if you are running a small HRT dose that is difference as well but the OP is not talking about HRT doses. in that case you are 100% correct because with HRT doses they are once a week and they are much smaller amounts so it would trickle away to very low levels much faster, but if we are talking about 500mg a week or more dosage which most everyone does then you are not correct, there will be AMPLE amounts of test in the body leftover after 2 weeks if we are talking about cyp.
as far as when to start PCT we don't disagree on that necessarily. after last injection kickstart and spread out hcg and HMG for about 3 weeks. then start PCT and run it about 5-6 weeks. assuming the cycle was 12-14 weeks that should work well.
Last edited:
Texas Monster
New member
So you can have those high levels still in you but they wont be active?
So you should be going off the active life for pct not half like correct?
So going into PCT for a 12+week cycle would look something like this.
Finish HCG 5 days prior to the 14 days we wait to start clomid therapy after the last pin of Test?
So you should be going off the active life for pct not half like correct?
So going into PCT for a 12+week cycle would look something like this.
Finish HCG 5 days prior to the 14 days we wait to start clomid therapy after the last pin of Test?
Texas Monster
New member
This leads me to another question then.....and theory.
As far as trade offs of using shorter esters and longer esters.
When we use short esters we start the PCT 2 days after last inject. Doesnt this mean in the next 4 weeks we are taking clomid that there will be a yoyo effect?
Instead with long esters you start clomid 10-14 days after last pin then you have a transition time where your HPTA will slowly start kicking back in at the rate that the rest of the active test is leaving your system. This way when you have no external test your HPTA should be full functioning and bringing your nat test up.
Wouldnt it be more beneficial to run a longer ester cycle then. Because With the short you are waiting those extra weeks to bring your hpta back from clomid but the esters will drop at a hell of a lot faster rate then long esters.
As far as trade offs of using shorter esters and longer esters.
When we use short esters we start the PCT 2 days after last inject. Doesnt this mean in the next 4 weeks we are taking clomid that there will be a yoyo effect?
Instead with long esters you start clomid 10-14 days after last pin then you have a transition time where your HPTA will slowly start kicking back in at the rate that the rest of the active test is leaving your system. This way when you have no external test your HPTA should be full functioning and bringing your nat test up.
Wouldnt it be more beneficial to run a longer ester cycle then. Because With the short you are waiting those extra weeks to bring your hpta back from clomid but the esters will drop at a hell of a lot faster rate then long esters.
Quote posted by stevesmi 
2 quick things because on page 1 things were addressed well.
1. yes juice does build up in the body. a long estered test for example will take weeks to peak in the blood. is it working after injection? YES it is i'm not argueing that. but is it peaking? NO.. how could it be peaking in the blood that fast?
...............................
MAYBE I'M MISSING SOMETHING BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. IT DOES PEAK? IT DOESN'T? I'M NOT GETTING WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY HERE.
no it does peak.. once it builds up it peaks, goes steady bouncing around a bit, once you inject for the last time it trickles away. i'm saying it has to build up in the body to peak, takes a few weeks to build up.
...............................
it takes weeks to build up to peak levels and level off... as you make injections the esters are picking up after each other and trickling away, as you continue injections it builds to a higher and higher level like stairs climbing..
....................................
2 WEEKS TO BE EXACT. AFTER THAT, THERE IS NO BUILD UP BECAUSE THE INJECTIONS MORE THAN 2 WEEKS OLD ARE INERT AT THAT POINT.
with test cyp ? I would peg it for at 4 weeks to reach peak levels. something like deca or EQ will take a bit longer. dbol or beastdrol takes a week to reach peak levels
.............................................
if you inject every 3.5 days then there will be a small bump up and up. once the amount you have been on equals the speed of the esters dropping away you have reached peak levels and now are leveling off and you are walking on a hilly surface and no long climbing.. but your blood levels will fluctuate slightly until you stop injecting.
......................
NO ARGUMENT THERE.
...........................
2. there is no way after 14 days even if the half life was 8 days is not active in the body assuming you were juicing say 500mg a week ..
.........................
DOSAGE IS IRRELEVANT. YOU CAN INJECT 5000 MGS, IT'S STILL ALMOST GONE AFTER 2 WEEKS.
how can that be? if it has an 8 day half life for example and you inject 5K, after 8 days half would be live in the body.. thats still 2500mgs.. then after 16 days 1250.. then after 24 days 625 and so on. plus whatever mg's you injected previously would also be dropping off. yes it makes a difference how much you inject. the longer and larger the dosage the longer it will take for it to taper out of the body.. how could it not?
...............................
it would have built up to high levels in the body and take much longer than 14 days to trickle away.
.................
NOT SO. THAT WAHT AN ESTER DOES -- IT DISSIPATES OVER TIME. THAT'S WHY PROP IS A "HARDER HIT" YOU GET IT ALL AT ONCE AND IT LASTS ONLY 48 HOURS.
prop is a harder hit cause it has a much shorter half life..
.................................
in my experience the stuff is in my body a good 4 weeks after last pin..
.................
SO IF YOU DO A GRAM A WEEK FOR 10 WEEKS, THEN STOP, YOU;RE SAYING YOU WILL STILL HAVE SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL T LEVELS IN YOUR BLOOD 28 DAYS AFTER YOUR LAST SHOT WITHOUT ANY PCT? THAT CAN'T BE.
that is correct. the OP even posted his bloods after 2 weeks and has T in his system still left over. his LH is at 0 so that isn't his own body producting it. that is what he was injecting still lingering.
.......................................
i know cause I have bloods as I cycle AAS off and on. now if you do a couple shots then stop that is different, or if you are running a small HRT dose that is difference as well but the OP is not talking about HRT doses. in that case you are 100% correct because with HRT doses they are once a week and they are much smaller amounts so it would trickle away to very low levels much faster, but if we are talking about 500mg a week or more dosage which most everyone does then you are not correct, there will be AMPLE amounts of test in the body leftover after 2 weeks if we are talking about cyp.
as far as when to start PCT we don't disagree on that necessarily. after last injection kickstart and spread out hcg and HMG for about 3 weeks. then start PCT and run it about 5-6 weeks. assuming the cycle was 12-14 weeks that should work well.
..................
I DISAGREE WITH USING HCG FOR 3 WEEKS. THERE'S NO POINT TO IT. IT WON'T KEEP LEVELS UP. IT'S JUST A KICKSTART. THAT WOULD BE LIKE BEING ON A DIVING BOARD AND BOUNCING UP AND DOWN FOR 10 MINUTES THINKING YOU CAN GO HIGHER AND HIGHER. NO. IT'LL ONLY GO SO HIGH.
hcg and HMG help plump the nuts going into PCT. it has cut my recovery times tremendously.. so we will agree to disagree. going into pct will raisin nuts is asking for trouble.
2 quick things because on page 1 things were addressed well.
1. yes juice does build up in the body. a long estered test for example will take weeks to peak in the blood. is it working after injection? YES it is i'm not argueing that. but is it peaking? NO.. how could it be peaking in the blood that fast?
...............................
MAYBE I'M MISSING SOMETHING BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. IT DOES PEAK? IT DOESN'T? I'M NOT GETTING WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY HERE.
no it does peak.. once it builds up it peaks, goes steady bouncing around a bit, once you inject for the last time it trickles away. i'm saying it has to build up in the body to peak, takes a few weeks to build up.
...............................
it takes weeks to build up to peak levels and level off... as you make injections the esters are picking up after each other and trickling away, as you continue injections it builds to a higher and higher level like stairs climbing..
....................................
2 WEEKS TO BE EXACT. AFTER THAT, THERE IS NO BUILD UP BECAUSE THE INJECTIONS MORE THAN 2 WEEKS OLD ARE INERT AT THAT POINT.
with test cyp ? I would peg it for at 4 weeks to reach peak levels. something like deca or EQ will take a bit longer. dbol or beastdrol takes a week to reach peak levels
.............................................
if you inject every 3.5 days then there will be a small bump up and up. once the amount you have been on equals the speed of the esters dropping away you have reached peak levels and now are leveling off and you are walking on a hilly surface and no long climbing.. but your blood levels will fluctuate slightly until you stop injecting.
......................
NO ARGUMENT THERE.
...........................
2. there is no way after 14 days even if the half life was 8 days is not active in the body assuming you were juicing say 500mg a week ..
.........................
DOSAGE IS IRRELEVANT. YOU CAN INJECT 5000 MGS, IT'S STILL ALMOST GONE AFTER 2 WEEKS.
how can that be? if it has an 8 day half life for example and you inject 5K, after 8 days half would be live in the body.. thats still 2500mgs.. then after 16 days 1250.. then after 24 days 625 and so on. plus whatever mg's you injected previously would also be dropping off. yes it makes a difference how much you inject. the longer and larger the dosage the longer it will take for it to taper out of the body.. how could it not?
...............................
it would have built up to high levels in the body and take much longer than 14 days to trickle away.
.................
NOT SO. THAT WAHT AN ESTER DOES -- IT DISSIPATES OVER TIME. THAT'S WHY PROP IS A "HARDER HIT" YOU GET IT ALL AT ONCE AND IT LASTS ONLY 48 HOURS.
prop is a harder hit cause it has a much shorter half life..
.................................
in my experience the stuff is in my body a good 4 weeks after last pin..
.................
SO IF YOU DO A GRAM A WEEK FOR 10 WEEKS, THEN STOP, YOU;RE SAYING YOU WILL STILL HAVE SUPRAPHYSIOLOGICAL T LEVELS IN YOUR BLOOD 28 DAYS AFTER YOUR LAST SHOT WITHOUT ANY PCT? THAT CAN'T BE.
that is correct. the OP even posted his bloods after 2 weeks and has T in his system still left over. his LH is at 0 so that isn't his own body producting it. that is what he was injecting still lingering.
.......................................
i know cause I have bloods as I cycle AAS off and on. now if you do a couple shots then stop that is different, or if you are running a small HRT dose that is difference as well but the OP is not talking about HRT doses. in that case you are 100% correct because with HRT doses they are once a week and they are much smaller amounts so it would trickle away to very low levels much faster, but if we are talking about 500mg a week or more dosage which most everyone does then you are not correct, there will be AMPLE amounts of test in the body leftover after 2 weeks if we are talking about cyp.
as far as when to start PCT we don't disagree on that necessarily. after last injection kickstart and spread out hcg and HMG for about 3 weeks. then start PCT and run it about 5-6 weeks. assuming the cycle was 12-14 weeks that should work well.
..................
I DISAGREE WITH USING HCG FOR 3 WEEKS. THERE'S NO POINT TO IT. IT WON'T KEEP LEVELS UP. IT'S JUST A KICKSTART. THAT WOULD BE LIKE BEING ON A DIVING BOARD AND BOUNCING UP AND DOWN FOR 10 MINUTES THINKING YOU CAN GO HIGHER AND HIGHER. NO. IT'LL ONLY GO SO HIGH.
hcg and HMG help plump the nuts going into PCT. it has cut my recovery times tremendously.. so we will agree to disagree. going into pct will raisin nuts is asking for trouble.
Clomid takes weeks to work...IF it works. And levels drop back below baseline after you stop. And it ruins your mood and saps your strength. In other words, it's worthless IMO.
