Masculinization of the face...

[danboy]

When female bbers actually look like a guy, the square jaw, cheek bones etc. its obviously due to, in part at least, low body fat on the face.

But is it also due to muscle changes over the face??
Changing the appearance of the face

And/or chnages in the bone structure??? I.e. is the use of anabolic steroids by a female likely to cause a jutting jaw, through bone growth??

Or is the fat loss just the main cause???

 

[SonnyBlack]

do steroids cause jaw growth in any of you....not growth hormone...steroids???

 

[STORM SHADOW]

Not hardly..................not even!

 

[Anodyne]

Female bodybuilders with masculined facial features are largely due to Growth Hormone more than steroids

 

[NinjaX]

that growth hormone is what attributes to that look in female body builders, it takes a shorter time to notice on a female over a guy due to smaller stature

 

[GaryWary]

Its not growth hormone its androgens! The freaky look that female bodybuilders have is 90 percent because they are taking to much male hormones. Male hormones make the face manly. What is hard to understand about that? Growth hormone does too, but it is not the only thing, and it is less effective.

You have neglected to mention the fact that they are in a starved (diet) condition, hence there facial structure will appear more prominant i.e. manly regardless of drug use.

And of course testosterone has masculinizing effects. MAsculinizing includes square manly face.

 

[wilson6]

Female bodybuilders.

Square jaw = no fat on the face

Round jaw = off season

I've seen the same women contest ready and off-season. The face changes dramatically regardless of what they are taking androgen wise. Its primarily a fat issue. However, the 5 o'clock shadow is a different story. Heavy GH use is another.

W6

 

[STORM SHADOW]

Once the bone growth centers stop..........roids have shit to do with bone.........geeeeeeeeeeez doesn't anybody read? Women get masculinized on steroids...but it has nothing to do with bone growth.

 

[PimpnAintEasy]

 

[Secret Squirrel]

DCS is absolutely right. GH? Low body fat? No. Look at women long disatnce runners, and tell me if they look like the freaky looking bitches we see on here.

Are you guys retarded?

IT IS NOT ANABOLICS. IT IS ANDROGENS!

Look up in the dictionary what androgens are and what they do. Once you spot the term, "SECONDARY MALE CHARACTERISTICS" hit yourself upside the head with a frying pan.

Geez. DCS gets a gold star! lol

 

[SupermanGear]

It is weird how when men take androgens real high dose does not seems to square their jaw or make them look masculine however all women have real square jaws once they hit the juice.....
Does flex wheeler have a baby face or what??

 

[PimpnAintEasy]

How do ya explain the chops on this guy?

 

[whatever]

I agree with DCS. Masculinizing androgens make women look masculine. what is so hard to believe about that.

 

[SupermanGear]

Hey that is good info DCS. Although, I still think the squareness of your jaw is mostly genetic the high dose androgens can maximise natural potential. In people with already sqaure jaws it exagerrates it, like Tom Platz Vince taylor, Dorian Yates all have REAL wide jaws.

 

[CYCLEON]

hey PimpnAintEasy - those pics u posted above - when did the dudes in the band "Poison" start working out????

 

[SonnyBlack]

hehehe Poison!!!thats fukin classic!

 

[PimpnAintEasy]

hey PimpnAintEasy - those pics u posted above - when did the dudes in the band "Poison" start working out????

I knew that bitch looked familar.

 

[wyst]

How about GH, though

What side effects can women who take GH expect? If it's the androgens that cause the square jaw, what will GH do for women?

Wyst

 

[liquidanny]

Exactly right....MOST compounds that increase test levels are going to cause SECONDARY MALE CHARACTERISTS in women.......thats why they need to stay away. No one wants to date Lou Ferrigno.

 

[Gorlim]

heh

 

[TNH]

chin will grow no matter how old you are with high dosages or long duration use. Jaw will stop growing if it hasn't already and you are still young and in teens or early twenties (estrogen causes ossification). Cheek bones might grow to some degree if you are in twenties. Nose will grow a little. Skin will get grainy, and pores get bigger. ALl these things make females who jucie, especially the chn thing, look fucked up.

Test can make your nose grow?

I remember after a big cycle last year, a friend that hadn't seen me for a while said I looked huge, and my nose had grown. I thought he was full of shit.........but could he have been right? My nose is definitely alot bigger than when I was younger, but I didnt notice anything directly after a cycle.

 

[Gorlim]

a mans nose, ears, and scrotum grow for life....

 

[Gorlim]

when does a mans jaw typically stop growing normally... ie face take final shape.

 

[HansNZ]

The low body fat makes the face look more masculine, but all the factors mentioned so far in this thread are only a minor part of the reason.

Most masculinising affects are the result of changes to the texture of the skin. Androgens give males their masculine complexion after puberty. I am very surprised that no one has mentioned this.

That's why convincing transvestities often look feminine, not because they have changed their bone structure but because they have a feminine skin tone.

Essentially 80% of masculinisation is the result of skin changes and 20% is the result of a combination of everything else.

 

[Gorlim]

skin changes 80%....can anyone else back that up thats pretty weird..

 

[Arkan]

Heres a pic which is interesting.

 

[brainiac]

do steroids cause jaw growth in any of you....not growth hormone...steroids???

I grind my teeth real bad-wear a mouthgaurd at night- it appears to work the jaw muscles pretty good some mornings. .

 

[Gorlim]

she looks like a fucking man in both pictures.. if she had a crew cut no one would be able to tell seriously.

 

[G-Force]

Enjoyed reading that DCS thanks - good info and I totally agree with you! I also thought it was common knowledge that women should stay well away from heavy androgens because the sides associated with androgens are THE worst and heavy long term use will have serious repercussions even for men, but we all know that the top "female" pro's take loads of them to stay competitive, and the consequences are there for everyone to see!
Virilization:- The attainment of characteristics of a mature male, women who use steroids risk virilizing effects -- caused by ANDROGENS which exist in all steroids to a varying degree!!!

 

[dieslgrl]

I am a female bb, and I don't have any changes in my face... I also have never taken any hard androgen.. the women who's face changes, slam rediculous amounts of test.. my theory is that they don't see it right away and they love how they look (being reinforced by the shmoes that surround most of them) and they continue to use...

even when I am dry for a show my face doesn't look in the least masculine, so it can't be fat loss... I have heard that if you take MASS amounts of anything.. be it gh, or androgens, it will have something to do with changes in your face.. but if you take it slow and small amounts, and clean out periodically, you can preserve your look.

my 2cents
dg

 

[hardbdygrl]

what exactly are "Masculinizing androgens" test,, gh???

 

[NubianBeauty]

HBG, that would be any Test, dbol, anadrol, etc. GH is not androgenic.

 

[hardbdygrl]

oooh oook i gotcha now,,,thanks Nubian

 

[Quadsweep]

Its not growth hormone its androgens! The freaky look that female bodybuilders have is 90 percent because they are taking to much male hormones. Male hormones make the face manly. What is hard to understand about that? Growth hormone does too, but it is not the only thing, and it is less effective.

Androgens will not add bone mass to your face or to anywhere else for that matter. Androgens actually leach calcium from your bone mass, so for that reason alone it could not add bone mass. Woman do take on a masculine apperance with the use of too many androgens but this usually disipates with discontinuation of the drugs.

 

[HansNZ]

I am a female bb, and I don't have any changes in my face... I also have never taken any hard androgen.. the women who's face changes, slam rediculous amounts of test.. my theory is that they don't see it right away and they love how they look (being reinforced by the shmoes that surround most of them) and they continue to use...

even when I am dry for a show my face doesn't look in the least masculine, so it can't be fat loss... I have heard that if you take MASS amounts of anything.. be it gh, or androgens, it will have something to do with changes in your face.. but if you take it slow and small amounts, and clean out periodically, you can preserve your look.

my 2cents
dg

Interesting post. I know several women who want to try AAS but are scared to. This is helpful information.

 

[musclebones]

HEY CAN WE CHANGE THIS THREAD A LITTLE BIT ?

Am I the only one who noticed that MALES seem to get jaw growth on AAS too ? I know my jaw line is more defined since I began. Actually I like it, I think it makes me look better. If it's something you guys want, try chewing gum during the day while on AAS. It's like lifting with your jaw muscles.

 

[Quadsweep]

she looks like a fucking man in both pictures.. if she had a crew cut no one would be able to tell seriously.

I Disagree. She looks completly different now.

 

[Quadsweep]

Re: HEY CAN WE CHANGE THIS THREAD A LITTLE BIT ?

Am I the only one who noticed that MALES seem to get jaw growth on AAS too ? I know my jaw line is more defined since I began. Actually I like it, I think it makes me look better. If it's something you guys want, try chewing gum during the day while on AAS. It's like lifting with your jaw muscles.

You could just be leaner. I have been using since 1993 and I have no facial changes.

 

[Gorlim]

she looks completley different? She still looks like a fucking man bro. And it looks like she had some surgery done on her jaw and chin. Woman have no business using AS ever.. unless they want a sex change.

 

[SaltyOlPirate]

My friend has an obsession with people that have big jaws/chins

Here is a link to his idol Robert Zdar
http://www.geocities.com/zdarrobert/Photo_1.html

He wants to look like this guy lol....

 

[jstrong20]

Some masuculinization would be fine. I'm 23 and still can't grow a beard.

 

[wilson6]

"I Disagree. She looks completly different now."

So do I. She looked better as a bodybuilder.

W6

 

[G-Force]

I Disagree. She looks completly different now.

No way Bro - I have to disagree with you, cos despite the fact she is carrying less muscle now the consequences of previous heavy androgen use are still evident in her face! Although I have no idea what she looked like before she used I would bet my house that she didn't look like she does now!!!

 

[G-Force]

My friend has an obsession with people that have big jaws/chins

Here is a link to his idol Robert Zdar
http://www.geocities.com/zdarrobert/Photo_1.html

He wants to look like this guy lol....

Yeah I remember him in Tango and Cash cos Russell called him Captain Dianabol heheh!!!

 

[Gorlim]

dude that guy is sick whats wrong with him?? IM assuming he had a growth hormone problem???
and ya that chick looks horrible in either picture.. or maybe im just straight .

 

[MaxBiceps]

My friend has an obsession with people that have big jaws/chins

Here is a link to his idol Robert Zdar
http://www.geocities.com/zdarrobert/Photo_1.html

He wants to look like this guy lol....

LOL!!! he looks like the guy from "Mask"

 

[Gorlim]

heh

 

[Gorlim]

bump

 

[Tha One CrumCake]

If I saw that ape on the street I'd kick her face in and tear out her fallopian tubes, Then I would put them in a blender with some Flour and salt, pour it out, let it sit 5 minutes to Dry, then make putty out it. Then I would form the putty into a gigantic Scrotum, and use industrial strength crazy glue, to glue it just underneath her overgrown Clit (which will be the Penis).

This is a very very good post, deserves a Major Bump.

 

[Stan Ozolol]

Kim is revolting- but she does look slightly more feminine in the 2001 picture. Narsty

 

[Gorlim]

im telling u surgery was done

 

[wyst]

Tazzie Colomb is another one whose face has changed quite a bit. Don't get me wrong, I like the big fbbs, but I think that something definitely is changing for many of them, and I think it's beyond just gaining and losing facial fat, although that certainly seems to be part of it. I'll try and dig upsome Tazzie pics, but I swear her jaw looks 25% wider than it used to be.

Wyst

 

[dieslgrl]

lets just hope that the new NPC (supposed) "standards" pave the way us up-and-coming female bb's... For me (and most other bodybuilders) this sport is perfomed day to day out of love and not money... What I will accomplish and show on stage is what I percieve as an asthetic, beautiful physique and a feminine face and display of femininity. Growing up as such a tomboy, this is the first time that I am accepted as both strong and beautiful... and no other competitor, no matter how manly she will make herself- could ever make me do that to myself. Bodybuilding is not forever.. your face, your body IS.... if and when that day comes that my face even so much as SLIGHTLY changes, I am done competing... it is just not worth it... You may ask, well "how would you know? You see yourself everyday." Many of my friends and pieces of my family know what I do, and I have warned them all to keep me abreast of any changes... so far there are none... I will show what I believe is beautiful.... Juliette Bergman as the new Ms. O gives me hope in that things can still get better...

I love being a female bodybuilder because I am different, dedicated, strong, and persistent... I love being who I am in the world of female bodybuilders because I set myself in a different standard... Luckily what I want out of bodybuilding is what the judges are claiming to want to see.

Many female bodybuilders who have been in the sport for years are upset that the physiques are looking more "fitness-like", but who the hell wants to see a man with long hair and a boob-job on stage? An extreme level of muscularity with a beautiful stage presence and a beautiful face is something that only few can achieve... I hope that someday I can show that it is possible... and to show young girls that beauty does not have to come in a size zero.

thoughts
dg

 

[wyst]

Interesting post. I know several women who want to try AAS but are scared to. This is helpful information.

Send them to the women's board. Scads of information on the pros and cons. They've got all sorts over there, from confirmed naturals to Deca and test cyclers.

 

[Gorlim]

good read bump

 

[solidspine]

Once the endplates of individual bones are sealed, usually by a persons early twenties the bone can’t continue to grow. Growth hormones could only affect bone growth in very young or younger people, GH is best for us guys in our 50’s

 

[fixerman]

chin will grow no matter how old you are with high dosages or long duration use. Jaw will stop growing if it hasn't already and you are still young and in teens or early twenties (estrogen causes ossification). Cheek bones might grow to some degree if you are in twenties. Nose will grow a little. Skin will get grainy, and pores get bigger. ALl these things make females who jucie, especially the chn thing, look fucked up.

This person does not know what he is talking about at all. Do not read this person's posts or believe what he writes.

The chin will NOT "grow no matter how old you are with high dosages or long duration use". This is flat out wrong, it is not true. The chin stops growing along with the rest of the face when a person reaches maturity. I believe that with women this happens sooner than with men. I think that the early twenties is when it happens with men.

 

[fixerman]

I am taking many advanced classes in bones so I know about this.

The cartilage behind the chin bone never ossifies. It is called Meckel's cartilage. THe chin bone grows for a person's entire life span. ANdrogens are basically what cause the cartilage in the chin to grow. Arnold Schwarzenegger got surgery to reduce his chin because it got so big. Most pro bodybuilders have enormous chins, or get surgery to reduce. In the rare cases that they don't it is from estrogen which inhibits the growth of the cartilage in the chin.

I was so unhappy with this guy's posts that I decided to ask him some stuff.

OK so I actually talked to this guy and found out he never took any advanced classes in bones and says he was drunk on sleeping pills when he wrote this. I wish they would erase his garbage. He was skimming through a basic biology book and made this stuff up.

I don't need to refute it bit by bit, it is all wrong, but I will do some. There is no magic growth plate in the chin that grows like that, the chin stops growing with the rest of the face once a person reaches adulthood. The stuff about Arnold is just pure hogwash. About pro bodybuilders who are presumably on steroids; they don't get surgery to reduce their out of control growing chins, that is almost comical. The bit about estrogen, well it just doesn't work that way.

 

[fixerman]

Some have babyfaces though yes even though they have big chins. Why? because they started juicing real young and all the estrogen causes the cartilage in the jaw bones to ossify prematurely. Hence there face remains somewhat smaller than it otherwise would be. However, GH and high dose androgens can cause the jaw to grow even after the condrocyles there would normaly be done proliferating, because there is a limited amount of cartilage that remains unossified in the jaw bone like in the chin. HOwever this cartilage will only create a particualr kind of growth that causes the jaw to spread outwards, ie. in a square jaw kind of way not downward as is the case during puberty when the jaw lengthens and grows forward. TOm Platz is an example of this. His jaw is real short yet it is like a perfect square. It looks kind of funny. Bottom line, androgens can cause pronounced changes in the facial bone structure even after puberty.

Again more pure bullshit! Again with the chin?! The chin does not keep growing! Also the stuff about the jaw and Tom Platz is all balderdash, and the fancy terms don't matter, it is all wrong. His bottom line is vague and unsubstantiated. If there are changes in facial bones after adulthood that are caused from steroid use they are not the ones that DCS describes.