

| Author | Topic: sustanon verse enanthate | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 228 |
Curious to the opinions from all of you on the pros and cons of doing a sustanon or enanthate cycle, both being stacked with deca. Which would give better gains in size and muscle and the negatives of side effects. I was comparing 500mg/wk sust to 600 mg/wk enanthate or for arguments sake the same dosage of each a week. Cost is not a concern here as they are not that much different. I'm thinking the enanthate will be quickier and maybe more size and stregth but will have more water retention and other testosterone related sides than the sust? The water retention is my main concern. How about 250 mg/wk sust and 400 mg/wk enanthate would that be better than one or the other alone? ![]() | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 340 |
Which is better here , which is better there.Here it is PLAIN AND SIMPLE...One of the most misunderstood subjects in the world of steroids is the ester--the mechanism by which injectable esterified steroids like testosterone cypionate, testosterone enanthate, and Sustanon work. Arguments over the superiority of cypionate to enanthate, or Sustanon to all other testosterones are of course very common. Let's take an authoritative look at the ester and what specifically it does to a steroid. 1. WHAT AN ESTER IS, AND HOW IT WORKS I'm sure that if you have taken an interest in anabolic steroids you have noticed the similarities on the labeling of many drugs. Let's look at testosterone for example. One can find compounds like testosterone cypionate, enanthate, propionate, heptylate; caproate, phenylpropionate, isocaproate, decanoate, acetate, the list goes on and on. In all such cases the parent hormone is testosterone, which had been modified by adding an ester (enanthate, propionate etc.) to its structure. The following question arises: What is the difference between the various esterified versions of testosterone in regards to their use in bodybuilding? A: An ester is a chain composed primarily of carbon and hydrogen atoms. This chain is typically attached to the parent steroid hormone at the 17th carbon position (beta orientation), although some compounds do carry esters at position 3 (for the purposes of this article it is not crucial to understand the exact position of the ester). Esterification of an injectable anabolic/androgenic steroid basically accomplishes one thing, it slows the release of the parent steroid from the site of injection. This happens because the ester will notably lower the water solubility of the steroid, and increase its lipid (fat) solubility. This will cause the drug to form a deposit in the muscle tissue, from which it will slowly enter into circulation as it is picked up in small quantities by the blood. Generally, the longer the ester chain, the lower the water solubility of the compound, and the longer it will take to for the full dosage to reach general circulation. Slowing the release of the parent steroid is a great benefit in steroid medicine, as free testosterone (or other steroid hormones) previously would remain active in the body for a very short period of time (typically hours). This would necessitate an unpleasant daily injection schedule if one wished to maintain a continuous elevation of testosterone (the goal of testosterone replacement therapy). By adding an ester, the patient can visit the doctor as infrequently as once per month for his injection, instead of having to constantly re-administer the drug to achieve a therapeutic effect. Clearly without the use of There are many different esters that are used with anabolic/androgenic steroids, but again, they all do basically the same thing. Esters vary only in their ability to reduce a steroid's water solubility. An ester like propionate for example will slow the release of a steroid for a few days, while the duration will be weeks with a decanoate ester. Esters have no effect on the tendency for the parent steroid to convert to estrogen or DHT (dihydrotestosterone: a more potent metabolite) nor will it effect the overall muscle-building potency of the compound. Any differences in results and side effects that may be noted by bodybuilders who have used various esterified versions of the same base steroid are just issues of timing. Testosterone enanthate causes estrogen related problems more readily than Sustanon, simply because with enanthate testosterone levels will peak and trough much sooner (1-2 week release duration as opposed to 3 or 4). Likewise testosterone suspension is the worst in regards to gyno and water bloat because blood hormone levels peak so quickly with this drug. Instead of waiting weeks for testosterone levels to rise to their highest point, here we are at most looking at a couple of days. Given an equal blood level of testosterone, there would be no difference in the rate of aromatization or DHT conversion between different esters. There is Sustanon: The "king" of testosterone blends. Esters work in a well-understood and predictable manner, and do not alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way other than to delay its release. Although the lure surrounding various steroid products like testosterone cypionate, Sustanon, Omnadren etc. certainly makes for interesting conversation, realistically it just amounts to misinformation that the athlete would be better off ignoring. Testosterone is testosterone and anyone who is going to tell you one ester form of this (or any) hormone is much better than another one should do a little more research, and a lot less talking. Phenylpropionate: Chemical Structure C9H10O2. Decanoate: Chemical Structure C10H20O2. Undecanoate: Chemical Structure C11H22O2. ![]() | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 228 |
Wow a mouthful huh. Thanks Painkiller. I get the idea. So while all being the same it is the timing and thuis the sides might be more prevalent in the beginning of a cycle and/or at the ned when coming off. Also heard you need to taper enanthate where as sust you don't need to. ![]() | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 395 |
The one thing you need to know also is that each ester takes up room in the mg dose, for example in each 250mg amp the enanthate will have more total test because it doesnt have the other 3 esters taking up room in the 250mg amp. So enanthate will give you better gains. Ok guys I'm ready for the rebuttles ![]() | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 228 |
In a nutshell. Enathate = better gains and more severe sides? ![]() | ||
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Cool Novice ![]()
Posts: 12 |
Everybody can react slightly different to each test. Case in point, I start to feel gyno immediately after any sustanon injection, (when used with deca,dbol). Currently I'm using testerona 200 (with deca,dbol) no sides, no itchy nips. great stuff. ![]() | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 698 |
alright painkiller i just got done reading that entire thing.LOL are you kidding me bro, wheres the damn foot notes!!!heheh good posting. ------------------ ![]() | ||
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Cool Novice ![]()
Posts: 12 |
Ok lawnsaver, I have a rebuttal. No offense bro, but "the other 3 esters taking up room in the 250mg amp"??? The dosage has nothing to do with how much space there is in the amp. It's how much drug there is in the oil. Haven't you noticed, there is always space (air) in every amp? As for the question, test is test, sust is merely time released and therefore, more expensive (like designer test) I went to the doc for a script for an anti-inflammatory I use often and he says to me "Do you want this one instead? It's the same but time released" So I say yeah but when I go fill the script, it's like 5 times more fucking expensive. So there you go. ![]() | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 690 |
i think enanthate sucks... plain and simple. sostenon is a lot better, i say 2nd is cypionate. but that is just what works for me. i have used and abused enanthate way too long and get no results.... but that is me... you may react diff. ![]() | ||
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Moderator ![]() ![]() ![]()
Posts: 986 |
Enanthate worked wonders for me. No sides either. ![]() | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 68 |
I have less water retention on Sus as opposed to Enan. or Cyp. Unless you are worried about clearance times - it doesn't matter which you use. ------------------ The moral? It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up - you had better be running. ![]() | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 395 |
Landry, I'm not talking about space in the amp, I'm talking about space in the weight of the 250mgs. The liquid has to weigh 250mg total. So if there are four esters in the mix the have weight taking away from the amount of test. Example: If you have 30mg of teat prop, you have about 27mg of test and 3mg of ester. Thats what I mean by taking up space. ![]() | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 68 |
250 Mg/CC is a concentration, not a weight. Atomic Mass Units are very, very small. I don't think the esters would have enough mass to effect the actual concentration. ![]() ------------------ The moral? It doesn't matter whether you are a lion or a gazelle, when the sun comes up - you had better be running. ![]() | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 228 |
water retention is the only side I'm concerned with. I'm sure the gains will be equal or very close with each. So sust is less water retention in most people. ![]() | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 68 |
Sus = little h20 retention - for me at least. ![]() | ||
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Cool Novice ![]()
Posts: 14 |
well lets face it... your body removes the ester, leaving you with what? testosterone... esters dont mean anything in the long run.. cypionate is not any stonger than enantate. laws of scarcity attract those who dont know any better... buy the enantate.. save your money, inject it more frequently ![]() | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 68 |
Esters don't mean anything??? WTF?? So half-lives and clearance times from the body don't mean anything?? If that is true why NOT use SUS on a two week cycle?? Or, better yet - Why switch to Prop on a cut, or pre-contest cycle?? ![]() | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 395 |
I have to disagree, If you have a one ester test and a 4 ester test, you losing about 15 mg in a 250mg amp, so if your taking 3 amps a week you losing alot overa 1 ester test ![]() | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 393 |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by lawnsaver: [B]Landry, I'm not talking about space in the amp, I'm talking about...QUOTE] Lawnsaver, why even waste your time responding to this bro? If someone does not understand the impact of an ester, fuck it!!! Later. ![]() | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 395 |
Just trying to educate, There are many things which I dont know yet and when I need it I would like someone to educate me. It really isnt a waste of time. Thats why I keep coming back ![]() | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 212 |
Fuck all the infighting. Thanks Painkiller! That had to be one of the most understandable technical explanations of the ester question I've heard. GOOD ANSWER! ![]() | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 393 |
quote: Good answer Later, ![]() | ||
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Pro Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 395 |
Check out my thread about fina trandermally. Roidranger attemted to flame me, but wasnt having it. I'm here to learn. I want to hear peoples experience. You can only read so many books, I want to learn from other people mistakes and triumphs ![]() | ||
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Cool Novice ![]()
Posts: 13 |
i've done both.....i see better results with the enanthate than the sus......but than again everybody is differnt. You also see more sides from the enanthate, acne, water retention and maybe gyno if you a prone to it. ![]() | ||
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Amateur Bodybuilder ![]()
Posts: 68 |
Bump for Lawn ![]() | ||
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Elite Bodybuilder ![]() ![]()
Posts: 994 |
Lawnsaver is right about ester's having a weight. But actually the longer the ester the more weight it has. Since sust contains some short ester's it actually has more test avail in 250mg of sust than 250mg of enanthate. The enanthate ester is a long ester and takes up more space. For the exact details. This is over my head. GymRatSD would be the best person to adress this. He is one smart dude ------------------ ![]() |
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