Females/Gear/Birth Control....Sassy - get in here

[The Shadow]

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/drug-information/DR202035


Sassy and I have been discussing the topic of AAS use in women combined with Gear usage etc.

The above sort of lays out some general info - the following is a must read for those women(and there are a LOT of them) who insist on taking standard oral cont. DURING a show AND running Anti-esteros:

http://www.rxlist.com/drugs/drug-1555-Anastrozole+Oral.aspx?drugid=1555&drugname=Anastrozole+Oral



ie - its a REALLLLY dumb thing to do.


For those who might not realize how a lot of estrogen modulators work:


This really easy to understand:

Some compounds "soak up" EXISTING estrogen - Nolvadex

Some compounds actually keeps estrogen form forming(inhibits the actual enzyme aromatase in the adrenal glands) - Arimidex

So....what are BCP?

Typically they contain......guess what??



YEP - ESTROGEN.



A female cutting for a show wants a little somthn somthn to help the area between her knees and hips - ie - estrogen fat(or as I refer to it - STICKY FAT).


So - her "trainer" or her boy says "you need to get on something to cut the estrogen"....EVEN though she s still on BCP.

at this point...does that make any sense??


Not to me.


Are the any cut/dried studies that show taking anti esteros will impact BCP in terms of getting preggers??


No.....


Why??



Most of the women who fit the bcp/adex/nolvadex are so low in bodyfat during contest prep that they have lost their period already - throw gear use on top of that...and - well - you get the picture....it aint gonna happen.


Common sense tells one that IF one were trying to cut estrogen - one would simply drop the bcp from the start.


I know the statements about the birth control issue are gonna pop up now....

"I would rather have estrogenic thighs than have a kid"


Fair enough........there are other non-hormonal ways of dealing with those issues.

and for those who are on BCP for other reasons....you shouldnt be fucking around with anti esteros in the first place.

 

[cindylou]

I dont take bcp because of bad experiences, BUT thats what gave me the womanly thighs in the first place, and now I have problems w/ water retention, and I've been off bcp for 5 years. Never had water retention problems before bc and i dont know if its related but it all started happening to me around the time i took bc.

ANWAY - has anyone tried keeping track of when they ovulate? I can say that I do this and I'm married and have sex on a reg. basis and Its worked for me. I'm not sure how much this works or not, but i'd rather do that than bcp.

 

[The Shadow]

I dont take bcp because of bad experiences, BUT thats what gave me the womanly thighs in the first place, and now I have problems w/ water retention, and I've been off bcp for 5 years. Never had water retention problems before bc and i dont know if its related but it all started happening to me around the time i took bc.

ANWAY - has anyone tried keeping track of when they ovulate? I can say that I do this and I'm married and have sex on a reg. basis and Its worked for me. I'm not sure how much this works or not, but i'd rather do that than bcp.

Yep.....if you have a fairly regular cycle.....you can get ovulation tests(cheap) and test everyday around the middle of the cycle.

Avoid sex on the days just brfore and just after.

DAISY is the board expert

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Charting to avoid is a risy thing - it can be VERY reliable and useful. I know that I found charting to be IMMENSELY valable - both in terms of geting to know my body and in getting pregnant.

But to SUCCESSULLY chart, you must take your temp every single morning (before moving around) and really get to know your insides and what comes out of it (ewww, Shadow exits with all this icky girl talk).

There are ovulation kits you can buy at the drugstore - basically home pregnancy tests that search for the "ovulation hormone" LH. There are other outward signs that you are ovulating. Once you get to know these signs, you know to start avoiding sex. There is also an ovulation monitor - Clearblue Easy makes one. You use it everyday and it tells you your fertility days - low, high and peak. Avoid on high and peak days obviously.

Highly recommend the book Taking Charge (Control?) of Your Fertility by Toni something. It is AWESOME for leaning about your cycles - both to conceive and avoid.

Also - you CANNOT chart if you are on ANY kind of hormonal BC. EVEN low dose. Hormonal BC suppresses ovulation (most of the time, lol).

 

[The Shadow]

Hormonal BC suppresses ovulation (most of the time, lol).

Unless you are on nolvadex


LMAO

 

[Daisy_Girl]

LOL Shadow .... true.

And it is also assuming you take your pill at EXACTLY the same time everyday. Most "pregnancy while on the pill" resulted from inconsistent pill taking.

 

[Sassy69]

First - Shadow thx for spending the time on this - it truly is the one bottom-line question that gets asked but usually the answer is to go off b/c (as I usually consider a cycle to be part of prep to get to some goal and not just something you are trying for shits & grins) so the whole AAS / bc interaction thing becomes a non-issue.

So if I understand correctly, let's consider the situations that you are most likely to find women wanting to know about AAS & b/c:

1) Competition - the extreme case where you are on AAS, anti-e's and at / below 12% bf (for this discussion I assume 12% as a typical point where you are low enough bodyfat that your period 'shuts off' regardless of AAS or not)

From your response:
- Don't mix anti-e's & b/c. I even asked my OB/GYN about nolvadex when I first heard about it for competition prep years ago. He basically said why not just go off the birth control if the aspect you are trying to avoid is estrogen-regulated bodyfat? So the two sort of cancel each other out and confuse the shit out of your natural estrogen production.

Also throw in the extremely low bodyfat aspect of competition. Your period may have already shut off by itself.

QUESTION: Is your period really shut off below that bodyfat level -- meaning you no longer get the Aunt Flo part, however you still experience the mood swings, cramps, water bloat right on schedule? Can you still get pregnant?

2) Competition (or not): AAS, no anti-e's, bodyfat not below 12% yet
This could be either a person on an off-season bulker cycle or somewhere in a long pre-comp prep (e.g. 2-4 months out) on a cycle but say somewhere between 12 - 15% bodyfat.

You aren't low enough bodyfat yet that your period shuts off from that, but as a typical side, your period stops as a result of the AAS use.

- Is the fact that Aunt Flo didn't show up mean that you can't get pregnant? (refers also back to the above question - you still get lots of the side effects of that time of the month but no actual Aunt Flo)?

If it is the actual use of the AAS turnign off your period, then are you 'safe' to NOT get pregnant if you aren't on B/C?

If you are on AAS AND b/c but not any anti-e's - does the AAS conflict w/ the b/c and negate its anti-baby effectiveness or if the actual use of the AAS turns off your period, then the b/c is irrelevant and you won't get pregnant?

... Answers to those? Or is it just a hormonal crapshoot and you are better off assuming regardless of what you are using that you should only rely on a nonhormonal method of birth control always?

 

[The Shadow]

First - Shadow thx for spending the time on this - it truly is the one bottom-line question that gets asked but usually the answer is to go off b/c (as I usually consider a cycle to be part of prep to get to some goal and not just something you are trying for shits & grins) so the whole AAS / bc interaction thing becomes a non-issue.


I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING THIS FOR LIKE 2 YEARS NOW - LOL


So if I understand correctly, let's consider the situations that you are most likely to find women wanting to know about AAS & b/c:

1) Competition - the extreme case where you are on AAS, anti-e's and at / below 12% bf (for this discussion I assume 12% as a typical point where you are low enough bodyfat that your period 'shuts off' regardless of AAS or not)

From your response:
- Don't mix anti-e's & b/c. I even asked my OB/GYN about nolvadex when I first heard about it for competition prep years ago. He basically said why not just go off the birth control if the aspect you are trying to avoid is estrogen-regulated bodyfat? So the two sort of cancel each other out and confuse the shit out of your natural estrogen production.

YES....AND THERE IS SOME EVIDENCE TO SHOW THAT AAS WILL CAN ACTUALLY CAUSE BIORTH DEFECTS IF YOU GET PREGGERS WHILE ON THEM
Also throw in the extremely low bodyfat aspect of competition. Your period may have already shut off by itself.

QUESTION: Is your period really shut off below that bodyfat level -- meaning you no longer get the Aunt Flo part, however you still experience the mood swings, cramps, water bloat right on schedule? Can you still get pregnant?


GOOD QUESTION....I WOULD HAVE TO ASSUME(NOT NECESSARILY A GOOD THING) THAT IF YOUR ACTUAL FLOW GOES AWAY, THEN YOU ARENT OVULATING - WHICH OF COURSE IS THE NECESSARY COMPONENT FOR GETTING PREGGERS - THE MOODS CRAMPS ETC ARE SECONDARY SYMPTOMS


2) Competition (or not): AAS, no anti-e's, bodyfat not below 12% yet
This could be either a person on an off-season bulker cycle or somewhere in a long pre-comp prep (e.g. 2-4 months out) on a cycle but say somewhere between 12 - 15% bodyfat.

You aren't low enough bodyfat yet that your period shuts off from that, but as a typical side, your period stops as a result of the AAS use.

- Is the fact that Aunt Flo didn't show up mean that you can't get pregnant? (refers also back to the above question - you still get lots of the side effects of that time of the month but no actual Aunt Flo)?


AGAIN - THIS IS ONLY AN EDUCATED GUESS - I WOULD THINK THAT THE LACK OF THE UTERINE STRIPPING AND FLOW WOULD INDICATE THAT OVULATION IS NOT HAPPENING. I THINK THE OTHER SIDES COULD STILL BE THERE BUT THE LH HORMONE IS JUST OUT OF WHACK ENOUGH TO THROW OVULATION OFF.


If it is the actual use of the AAS turnign off your period, then are you 'safe' to NOT get pregnant if you aren't on B/C?

I'M NOT SURE IF IT MATTERS IF ITS THE AAS OR THE BODY FAT THING....NO OVULATION MEANS NO OVULATION REGARDLESS OF THE ACTUAL CAUSE.


If you are on AAS AND b/c but not any anti-e's - does the AAS conflict w/ the b/c and negate its anti-baby effectiveness or if the actual use of the AAS turns off your period, then the b/c is irrelevant and you won't get pregnant?


THERE IS RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THAT GEAR WILL AFFECT HORMONAL BC IN WOMEN...IT IS DEPENDENT ON THE TYPE AND AMOUNT....REMEMBER WE WERE KICKING THE IDEA OF WHY DECA ISNT A GOOD CHOICE FOR WOMEN...INCREASES PROGESTERONE??

PROG IS NOW A COMMON COMPONENT IN A LOT OF ORAL BC.

BUT YES...IF AAS SWITCHES THE PERIOD OFF - I DONT SEE HOW B/C WOULD EVER AFEECT THAT


... Answers to those? Or is it just a hormonal crapshoot and you are better off assuming regardless of what you are using that you should only rely on a nonhormonal method of birth control always?

AT THIS POINT - I THINK THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO AVOID HORMONAL BC IF YOU ARE HITTING UP THE GEAR.



I THINK, FOR ME, THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT ORAL BC PILLS ARE HORMONAL MANIPULATORS.....ADDING IN MALE HORMONES AND COMPOUNDS WHICH REVERSE THE ESTROGEN EFFECTS(Anti-esteros) OF THE BCP's IS JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE.

 

[florencia]

I used to check for ovulation...YUCKY TALK...nonetheless....
You must swipe tissue before urinating and track the flow...It will be pasty when you are NOT ovulating, and when you are ovulating the discharge will be clear and WILL strech...Boys should be glad they don't do this! LOL

 

[Sassy69]

With regard to birth defects if you get pregnant while "on" -- consider AAS as essentially DHT -- remember DHT is what causes male pattern baldness...?

Here's from exrx.net:

Exogenous Testosterone

Testosterone is an anabolic/androgenic hormone. Its anabolic properties include the maintenance and growth of muscle and bone tissue (Sutton, Coleman, Casey, & Lazarus, 1973). Increases in muscular size appear to be due to the effect of testosterones upon protein synthesis (Griggs, Kingston, Jozefowicz, Herr, Forbes, & Halliday, 1989). Testosterone increases skeletal muscle size through hypotrophy (Boone, Lambert, Flynn, Michaud, Rodriguez-Zayas, & Andres, 1990); not by hyperplasia (Mooradian, Morely, & Korenman, 1987). Testosterone has been reported to enhance glycogen synthesis, reabsorption of sodium in the kidneys, and secretion of sebaceous glands (Mooradian, Morely, & Korenman, 1987). Testosterone is associated with bone growth, calcium retention, sodium reabsorption, and increased metabolic rate.

The negative feedback loop of the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis regulates the production of endogeneous testosterone. The hypothalamus secretes gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH), which stimulates luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) from the anterior pituitary. LH can then stimulate the membrane receptors of the Leydig cells in the testes to stimulate the production of testosterone (Kraemer, 1988).

Resting testosterone values for mature males range from 14.0 to 28.0 nmol/L (Kraemer, 1988). Approximately 97 to 99 percent of testosterone is transported in the blood bound to plasma proteins such as sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and albumin. The remaining 1 to 3% is the biologically active, free testosterone. Testosterone circulates in the blood approximately 15 to 30 minutes until it is either bound to receptors or metabolized into inactive products by the liver and subsequently excreted through the urine.

Testosterone can be converted to estradiol through aromatization in adipose tissue, certain brain tissue, and other specific tissues (Mooradian, Morely, & Korenman, 1987). Testosterone is also converted to dihydrotesterone (DHT) in the gonads and certain peripheral tissues (Di Pasquale, 1992a; Mooradian, Morely, & Korenman, 1987). In normal men, plasma levels of dihydrotestosterone are approximately 55 ng/100 ml. The production of dyhydrotestosterone is 1/20th of the production of testosterone. Dihydrotestosterone is related to facial hair, genetic balding, prostate growth, and the development of male external genitalia. Dihydrotestesterone does not aromatize and has less of an antigonadotropic effect than testosterone. In high levels, dihydrotestosterone can assume the function of testosterone, and testosterone can assume the function of dihydrotestosterone (Di Pasquale, 1992a).
If you are a female cycling, you have an amount of DHT in your body. Now consider you get pregnant while you are cycling or prior to all the AAS clearing your system. Your fetus is in an environment that has a higher concentration of DHT than is natural which can then result in androgenic issues.

BTW this also explains the enlarged clitoris and increased sensitivity while "on", and excluding a possible cumulative effect from continued use or abuse, usually passes once the AAS itself (and the DHT) clears your body.