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The Shadow
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Sassy69
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So further digesting all of the above, if we exclude discussion of anti-estrogens and stick w/ the two things we've identified that can 'stop' a period:
- exercise-induced amenorrhea
- AAS induced amenorrhea
(see below for a ref about amenorrhea in general)
Getting back to the question of "OK so its possible my birth control is useless or further just screws up my hormones even more if I'm on a cycle. So I'll go off the birth control. If my period goes away either from AAS use or low bodyfat and I'm not on (hormonal) birth control, can I get pregnant?"
(Really this is leading up to the question of how do I have sex while "on" but not get pregnant... and ultimately the solution is using a non-hormonal backup method or abstinance. And imagine how rough that has to be when you are experiencing testosterone-induced raging horniness & sensitivity driven by that DHT.... Basically its just really damn hard to be a female who wants to cycle unless you've given in & gotten the IUD or have a guy who is "fixed".)
If the "flow" is considered the evidence of ovulation, and it has disappeared per AAS use or low bodyfat, even if the cramps, mood swings, etc. are present, its not considered to be ovulating?
Then if I'm not ovulating (per the above definition), can I get pregnant?
I'd be fascinated if there were actual studies on this but per the amenorrhea article below, amenorrhea is the situation when you dont' get your period for 3+ months. From my own experience w/ losing my period below 12% bodyfat and then having it return the month following competition (when my bodyfat goes back up to around 15% via rebound) I'm not really looking at an extended duration that would be called amenorrhea and have the accompanying potential issues (e.g. infertility resulting from extended amenorrhea, etc.) Basically my body is a little weirded out for a month or two but gets back to normal once the stresses are gone.
Same w/ a cycle, usually once the AAS has cleared (note this duration will depend on the ester of the drug - meaning how long it stays in your body) you can usually expect your body & its processes to get back to normal.
IMO there's gotta be a scale of times when you are going to be more prone to get pregnant than not relative to the non-ovulation. Meaning there are so many things going on in various degrees over time that you can't really pinpoint ovulation vs non-ovluation and also (getting really granular) if you had sex, the time that sperm can survive, etc, that you could guarantee no chance of pregnancy.
LOL therefore I'd assume that in the situation of loss of period during AAS use or low bodyfat (even excluding use of an anti-e), you can't rely on that as a time you won't get pregnant.
... hope I didnt' go off on a tangent there, but the above question is sort of the one that follows from "Will my b/c still work if I'm on AAS?" And then if you can't rely on B/C because of the AAS, what are your other alternatives -- the use of the AAS itself (or low bodyfat) can't guarantee you won't get pregnant even tho it seems like its probably less likely (I"M NOT A DOCTOR, I said IT SEEMS....) to happen, but it isn't really a discrete state of 'ovulating' or 'not ovulating' where you can tell on what day and then further complicating it w/ the shelf life of sperm, etc.
Hope that makes some sense.... Thinking out loud you know....
Oh yea, here's the ref for amenorrhea:
https://www.healthatoz.com/healthat...questURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/amenorrhea.jsp
Definition
The absence of menstrual periods is called amenorrhea. Primary amenorrhea is the failure to start having a period by the age of 16. Secondary amenorrhea is more common and refers to either the temporary or permanent ending of periods in a woman who has menstruated normally in the past. Many women miss a period occasionally. Amenorrhea occurs if a woman misses three or more periods in a row.
Description
The absence of menstrual periods is a symptom, not a disease. While the average age that menstruation begins is 12, the range varies. The incidence of primary amenorrhea in the United States is just 2.5%.
Some female athletes who participate in rowing, long distance running, and cycling, may notice a few missed periods. Women athletes at a particular risk for developing amenorrhea include ballerinas and gymnasts, who typically exercise strenuously and eat poorly.
Causes and symptoms
Amenorrhea can have many causes. Primary amenorrhea can be the result of hormonal imbalances, psychiatric disorders, eating disorders, malnutrition, excessive thinness or fatness, rapid weight loss, body fat content too low, and excessive physical conditioning. Intense physical training prior to puberty can delay menarche (the onset of menstruation). Every year of training can delay menarche for up to five months. Some medications such as anti-depressants, tranquilizers, steroids, and heroin can induce amenorrhea.
Primary amenorrhea
However, the main cause is a delay in the beginning of puberty either from natural reasons (such as heredity or poor nutrition) or because of a problem in the endocrine system, such as a pituitary tumor or hypothyroidism. An obstructed flow tract or inflammation in the uterus may be the presenting indications of an underlying metabolic, endocrine, congenital or gynecological disorder.
Typical causes of primary amenorrhea include:
excessive physical activity
drastic weight loss (such as occurs in anorexia or bulimia)
extreme obesity
drugs (antidepressants or tranquilizers)
chronic illness
turner's syndrome. (A chromosomal problem in place at birth, relevant only in cases of primary amenorrhea)
the absence of a vagina or a uterus
imperforate hymen (lack of an opening to allow the menstrual blood through)
Secondary amenorrhea
Some of the causes of primary amenorrhea can also cause secondary amenorrhea -- strenuous physical activity, excessive weight loss, use of antidepressants or tranquilizers, in particular. In adolescents, pregnancy and stress are two major causes. Missed periods are usually caused in adolescents by stress and changes in environment. Adolescents are especially prone to irregular periods with fevers, weight loss, changes in environment, or increased physical or athletic activity. However, any cessation of periods for four months should be evaluated.
The most common cause of seconardy amenorrhea is pregnancy. Also, a woman's periods may halt temporarily after she stops taking birth control pills. This temporary halt usually lasts only for a month or two, though in some cases it can last for a year or more. Secondary amenorrhea may also be related to hormonal problems related to stress, depression, anorexia nervosa or drugs, or it may be caused by any condition affecting the ovaries, such as a tumor. The cessation of menstruation also occurs permanently after menopause or a hysterectomy.
Polycystic ovary syndrome is another common cause of secondary amenorrhea. It is caused by ovaries containing many fluid filled sacs (cysts) with abnormal levels of male hormones (androgens). This condition is related to improper functioning of the pituitary gland, as it releases hormones necessary for pregnancy (leuteinizing hormones), and can cause women to develop male characteristics, such as acne and coarse body hair. If the condition is not treated, some of the androgens may convert to estrogen, and chronically high levels of estrogen may increase the chance of developing cancer of the uterine lining.
Diagnosis
It may be difficult to find the cause of amenorrhea, but the exam should start with a pregnancy test; pregnancy needs to be ruled out whenever a woman's period is two to three weeks overdue. Androgen excess, estrogen deficiency, or other problems with the endocrine system need to be checked. Prolactin in the blood and the thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) should also be checked.
The diagnosis usually includes a patient history and a physical exam (including a pelvic exam). If a woman has missed three or more periods in a row, a physician may recommend blood tests to measure hormone levels, a scan of the skull to rule out the possibility of a pituitary tumor, and ultrasound scans of the abdomen and pelvis to rule out a tumor of the adrenal gland or ovary.
Treatment
Treatment of amenorrhea depends on the cause. Primary amenorrhea often requires no treatment, but it's always important to discover the cause of the problem in any case. Not all conditions can be treated, but any underlying condition that is treatable should be treated.
If a hormonal imbalance is the problem, progesterone for one to two weeks every month or two may correct the problem. With polycystic ovary syndrome, birth control pills are often prescribed. A pituitary tumor is treated with bromocriptine, a drug that reduces certain hormone (prolactin) secretions. Weight loss may bring on a period in an obese woman. Easing up on excessive exercise and eating a proper diet may bring on periods in teen athletes. In very rare cases, surgery may be needed for women with ovarian or uterine cysts.
Prognosis
Prolonged amenorrhea can lead to infertility and other medical problems such as osteoporosis (thinning of the bones). If the halt in the normal period is caused by stress or illness, periods should begin again when the stress passes or the illness is treated. Amenorrhea that occurs with discontinuing birth control pills usually go away within six to eight weeks, although it may take up to a year.
The prognosis for polycystic ovary disease depends on the severity of the symptoms and the treatment plan. Spironolactone, a drug that blocks the production of male hormones, can help in reducing body hair. If a woman wishes to become pregnant, treatment with clomiphene may be required or, on rare occasions, surgery on the ovaries.
Prevention
Primary amenorrhea caused by a congenital condition cannot be prevented. In general, however, women should maintain a healthy diet, with plenty of exercise, rest, and not too much stress, avoiding smoking and substance abuse. Female athletes should be sure to eat a balanced diet and rest and exercise normally. However, many cases of amenorrhea cannot be prevented.
Key Terms
Hymen
Membrane that stretches across the opening of the vagina.
Hypothyroidism
Underactive thyroid gland.
Hysterectomy
Surgical removal of the uterus.
Turner's syndrome
A condition in which one female sex chromosome is missing.
For Your Information
Books
Carlson, Karen J., Stephanie Eisenstat, and Ziporyn Eisenstat. The Harvard Guide to Women's Health. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1996.
Periodicals
Hogg, Anne Cahill. "Breaking the Cycle: Often Confused and Frustrated, Sufferers of Amenorrhea Now have Better Treatment Options." American Fitness 15, no. 4 (July-Aug. 1997): 30-4.
Kiningham, Robert B., Barbara Apgar, and Thomas Schwenk. "Evaluation of Amenorrhea." American Family Physician 53, no. 3 (Mar. 1996): 1185-95.
Mayo editors. "Amenorrhea: Can Athletics Disrupt a Girl's Menstrual Cycle During the Growing Years?" Mayo Clinic Nutrition Letter 2, no. 9 (Sept. 1989): 4-5.
Organizations
American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. 409 12th St., S.W., P.O. Box 96920, Washington, DC 20090-6920. http://www.acog.org
Federation of Feminist Women's Health Centers.1469 Humboldt Rd, Suite 200, Chico, CA 96928. (530) 891-1911.
National Women's Health Network. 514 10th St. NW, Suite 400, Washington, DC 20004. (202) 628-7814. http://www.womenshealthnetwork.org
- exercise-induced amenorrhea
- AAS induced amenorrhea
(see below for a ref about amenorrhea in general)
Getting back to the question of "OK so its possible my birth control is useless or further just screws up my hormones even more if I'm on a cycle. So I'll go off the birth control. If my period goes away either from AAS use or low bodyfat and I'm not on (hormonal) birth control, can I get pregnant?"
(Really this is leading up to the question of how do I have sex while "on" but not get pregnant... and ultimately the solution is using a non-hormonal backup method or abstinance. And imagine how rough that has to be when you are experiencing testosterone-induced raging horniness & sensitivity driven by that DHT.... Basically its just really damn hard to be a female who wants to cycle unless you've given in & gotten the IUD or have a guy who is "fixed".)
If the "flow" is considered the evidence of ovulation, and it has disappeared per AAS use or low bodyfat, even if the cramps, mood swings, etc. are present, its not considered to be ovulating?
Then if I'm not ovulating (per the above definition), can I get pregnant?
I'd be fascinated if there were actual studies on this but per the amenorrhea article below, amenorrhea is the situation when you dont' get your period for 3+ months. From my own experience w/ losing my period below 12% bodyfat and then having it return the month following competition (when my bodyfat goes back up to around 15% via rebound) I'm not really looking at an extended duration that would be called amenorrhea and have the accompanying potential issues (e.g. infertility resulting from extended amenorrhea, etc.) Basically my body is a little weirded out for a month or two but gets back to normal once the stresses are gone.
Same w/ a cycle, usually once the AAS has cleared (note this duration will depend on the ester of the drug - meaning how long it stays in your body) you can usually expect your body & its processes to get back to normal.
IMO there's gotta be a scale of times when you are going to be more prone to get pregnant than not relative to the non-ovulation. Meaning there are so many things going on in various degrees over time that you can't really pinpoint ovulation vs non-ovluation and also (getting really granular) if you had sex, the time that sperm can survive, etc, that you could guarantee no chance of pregnancy.
LOL therefore I'd assume that in the situation of loss of period during AAS use or low bodyfat (even excluding use of an anti-e), you can't rely on that as a time you won't get pregnant.
... hope I didnt' go off on a tangent there, but the above question is sort of the one that follows from "Will my b/c still work if I'm on AAS?" And then if you can't rely on B/C because of the AAS, what are your other alternatives -- the use of the AAS itself (or low bodyfat) can't guarantee you won't get pregnant even tho it seems like its probably less likely (I"M NOT A DOCTOR, I said IT SEEMS....) to happen, but it isn't really a discrete state of 'ovulating' or 'not ovulating' where you can tell on what day and then further complicating it w/ the shelf life of sperm, etc.
Hope that makes some sense.... Thinking out loud you know....
Oh yea, here's the ref for amenorrhea:
https://www.healthatoz.com/healthat...questURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/amenorrhea.jsp
Definition
The absence of menstrual periods is called amenorrhea. Primary amenorrhea is the failure to start having a period by the age of 16. Secondary amenorrhea is more common and refers to either the temporary or permanent ending of periods in a woman who has menstruated normally in the past. Many women miss a period occasionally. Amenorrhea occurs if a woman misses three or more periods in a row.
Description
The absence of menstrual periods is a symptom, not a disease. While the average age that menstruation begins is 12, the range varies. The incidence of primary amenorrhea in the United States is just 2.5%.
Some female athletes who participate in rowing, long distance running, and cycling, may notice a few missed periods. Women athletes at a particular risk for developing amenorrhea include ballerinas and gymnasts, who typically exercise strenuously and eat poorly.
Causes and symptoms
Amenorrhea can have many causes. Primary amenorrhea can be the result of hormonal imbalances, psychiatric disorders, eating disorders, malnutrition, excessive thinness or fatness, rapid weight loss, body fat content too low, and excessive physical conditioning. Intense physical training prior to puberty can delay menarche (the onset of menstruation). Every year of training can delay menarche for up to five months. Some medications such as anti-depressants, tranquilizers, steroids, and heroin can induce amenorrhea.
Primary amenorrhea
However, the main cause is a delay in the beginning of puberty either from natural reasons (such as heredity or poor nutrition) or because of a problem in the endocrine system, such as a pituitary tumor or hypothyroidism. An obstructed flow tract or inflammation in the uterus may be the presenting indications of an underlying metabolic, endocrine, congenital or gynecological disorder.
Typical causes of primary amenorrhea include:
excessive physical activity
drastic weight loss (such as occurs in anorexia or bulimia)
extreme obesity
drugs (antidepressants or tranquilizers)
chronic illness
turner's syndrome. (A chromosomal problem in place at birth, relevant only in cases of primary amenorrhea)
the absence of a vagina or a uterus
imperforate hymen (lack of an opening to allow the menstrual blood through)
Secondary amenorrhea
Some of the causes of primary amenorrhea can also cause secondary amenorrhea -- strenuous physical activity, excessive weight loss, use of antidepressants or tranquilizers, in particular. In adolescents, pregnancy and stress are two major causes. Missed periods are usually caused in adolescents by stress and changes in environment. Adolescents are especially prone to irregular periods with fevers, weight loss, changes in environment, or increased physical or athletic activity. However, any cessation of periods for four months should be evaluated.
The most common cause of seconardy amenorrhea is pregnancy. Also, a woman's periods may halt temporarily after she stops taking birth control pills. This temporary halt usually lasts only for a month or two, though in some cases it can last for a year or more. Secondary amenorrhea may also be related to hormonal problems related to stress, depression, anorexia nervosa or drugs, or it may be caused by any condition affecting the ovaries, such as a tumor. The cessation of menstruation also occurs permanently after menopause or a hysterectomy.
Polycystic ovary syndrome is another common cause of secondary amenorrhea. It is caused by ovaries containing many fluid filled sacs (cysts) with abnormal levels of male hormones (androgens). This condition is related to improper functioning of the pituitary gland, as it releases hormones necessary for pregnancy (leuteinizing hormones), and can cause women to develop male characteristics, such as acne and coarse body hair. If the condition is not treated, some of the androgens may convert to estrogen, and chronically high levels of estrogen may increase the chance of developing cancer of the uterine lining.
Diagnosis
It may be difficult to find the cause of amenorrhea, but the exam should start with a pregnancy test; pregnancy needs to be ruled out whenever a woman's period is two to three weeks overdue. Androgen excess, estrogen deficiency, or other problems with the endocrine system need to be checked. Prolactin in the blood and the thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) should also be checked.
The diagnosis usually includes a patient history and a physical exam (including a pelvic exam). If a woman has missed three or more periods in a row, a physician may recommend blood tests to measure hormone levels, a scan of the skull to rule out the possibility of a pituitary tumor, and ultrasound scans of the abdomen and pelvis to rule out a tumor of the adrenal gland or ovary.
Treatment
Treatment of amenorrhea depends on the cause. Primary amenorrhea often requires no treatment, but it's always important to discover the cause of the problem in any case. Not all conditions can be treated, but any underlying condition that is treatable should be treated.
If a hormonal imbalance is the problem, progesterone for one to two weeks every month or two may correct the problem. With polycystic ovary syndrome, birth control pills are often prescribed. A pituitary tumor is treated with bromocriptine, a drug that reduces certain hormone (prolactin) secretions. Weight loss may bring on a period in an obese woman. Easing up on excessive exercise and eating a proper diet may bring on periods in teen athletes. In very rare cases, surgery may be needed for women with ovarian or uterine cysts.
Prognosis
Prolonged amenorrhea can lead to infertility and other medical problems such as osteoporosis (thinning of the bones). If the halt in the normal period is caused by stress or illness, periods should begin again when the stress passes or the illness is treated. Amenorrhea that occurs with discontinuing birth control pills usually go away within six to eight weeks, although it may take up to a year.
The prognosis for polycystic ovary disease depends on the severity of the symptoms and the treatment plan. Spironolactone, a drug that blocks the production of male hormones, can help in reducing body hair. If a woman wishes to become pregnant, treatment with clomiphene may be required or, on rare occasions, surgery on the ovaries.
Prevention
Primary amenorrhea caused by a congenital condition cannot be prevented. In general, however, women should maintain a healthy diet, with plenty of exercise, rest, and not too much stress, avoiding smoking and substance abuse. Female athletes should be sure to eat a balanced diet and rest and exercise normally. However, many cases of amenorrhea cannot be prevented.
Key Terms
Hymen
Membrane that stretches across the opening of the vagina.
Hypothyroidism
Underactive thyroid gland.
Hysterectomy
Surgical removal of the uterus.
Turner's syndrome
A condition in which one female sex chromosome is missing.
For Your Information
Books
Carlson, Karen J., Stephanie Eisenstat, and Ziporyn Eisenstat. The Harvard Guide to Women's Health. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 1996.
Periodicals
Hogg, Anne Cahill. "Breaking the Cycle: Often Confused and Frustrated, Sufferers of Amenorrhea Now have Better Treatment Options." American Fitness 15, no. 4 (July-Aug. 1997): 30-4.
Kiningham, Robert B., Barbara Apgar, and Thomas Schwenk. "Evaluation of Amenorrhea." American Family Physician 53, no. 3 (Mar. 1996): 1185-95.
Mayo editors. "Amenorrhea: Can Athletics Disrupt a Girl's Menstrual Cycle During the Growing Years?" Mayo Clinic Nutrition Letter 2, no. 9 (Sept. 1989): 4-5.
Organizations
American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. 409 12th St., S.W., P.O. Box 96920, Washington, DC 20090-6920. http://www.acog.org
Federation of Feminist Women's Health Centers.1469 Humboldt Rd, Suite 200, Chico, CA 96928. (530) 891-1911.
National Women's Health Network. 514 10th St. NW, Suite 400, Washington, DC 20004. (202) 628-7814. http://www.womenshealthnetwork.org
YOU CAN OVULATE AND NOT GET A PERIOD ......
Happens often in breastfeeding women. They think that since they are breastfeeding, and not getting a period, that they are NOT fertile.
WRONG.
When I was BFing, I got all the physical symptoms of ovulation - cervical mucus, ovary twinges, etc. BUT NO FLOW.
If you do not want a baby, a woman should ALWAYS assume she is fertile and protect herself likewise. ESPECIALLY if she is supplementing.
Happens often in breastfeeding women. They think that since they are breastfeeding, and not getting a period, that they are NOT fertile.
WRONG.
When I was BFing, I got all the physical symptoms of ovulation - cervical mucus, ovary twinges, etc. BUT NO FLOW.
If you do not want a baby, a woman should ALWAYS assume she is fertile and protect herself likewise. ESPECIALLY if she is supplementing.
Sassy69
New member
Which brings us back to where in a perfect world you could rent a kid instead of going thru hormone hell for a year, your man would be protected instead of you having to do it and you could have wild sex all the time and not have to worry about it.
O well. More condoms I guess....
O well. More condoms I guess....
T
T-Cake
Guest
Thanks for posting this. I learned a lot and I got to ask Ulter some fun questions too along the way. 
The Shadow said:
Great post S
gymmum
New member
Whilst I was preping for comp I had lost my flo and sides for 11mths. My bf% wasn't that low but for some reason whether diet & training related flo had vanished. After 11mths and many tests (which were all negative) I found that yes I was pregnant. All tests said no. 1 test which was done was found to be masking pregnancy was high testosterone levels. (5x). At 18 weeks pregnant and not knowing was a shock. So you can asume that even if flo has gone you are not infertile.
Atasr5, I'm the same way, the 1st show I lost mine for 8 months, second prep lost it for 6 months, and I know I wasn't that low in bodyfat both times. I'm hoping it doesn't go away for that long again this time, I haven't lost it yet, but I still have 13 more weeks, lol.
Interesting it took me longer to lose mine the second time around. Every time I cut it takes longer to lose the period. I am thinking the body has adjusted to being at lower bf% perhaps.Miss24k said:
Sassy69
New member
Also consider a certain degree of shock to the system and perhaps when your body goes thru it a second time, its not a "new" experience so maybe doesn't freak out as much in response.
The only other times I have lost mine have been when I've had extreme stress - 3 times in my life this has happened:
- my first semester away from home for college - stopped for the 4 months of the fall semester, came back for xmas break and then quit again for spring semester. Came back for summer break and was normal following that.
- first major breakup w/ someone who was very close to a finance'. This particular time I also lost my appetite for 4 months -- basically I stopped eating.
- happened one other time re: breakup
The only other times I have lost mine have been when I've had extreme stress - 3 times in my life this has happened:
- my first semester away from home for college - stopped for the 4 months of the fall semester, came back for xmas break and then quit again for spring semester. Came back for summer break and was normal following that.
- first major breakup w/ someone who was very close to a finance'. This particular time I also lost my appetite for 4 months -- basically I stopped eating.
- happened one other time re: breakup
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