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Winstrol tabs or Injects??
- Thread starter Juiced
- Start date
This article helped me in researching Winny. Hope it helps bro!
I tend to shy away from straight “information” articles- in other
words, I’ve never written the “How Androgens Work” article, because
I’ve read it several times by several authors, and I really have
nothing to add. Gene Transcription and Androgen Receptor Action has
been written about over, and over, ad nauseum. All of the articles
I’ve read on the topic are well written and well- they’re all the
same. Don’t get me wrong, all of the articles which discuss the
topic are very informative, but when you’re done reading them, you
don’t really have anything you can “use” in your next cycle.
And I’m sure you know the difference between orals and injectables,
but do yourself a favor and read this article, because I’m going to
explain some things in here that you can use in your next cycle.
Actually, I’m going to explain how you can use Winstrol
(Stanozolol) as either an oral or injectable, and get a very
different set of effects from the same drug- depending on which
route of administration you choose to utilize.
First, lets go over the basics of Winstrol, so we’re all on the
same page here.
Winstrol is a steroid derived from the base structure of
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is just testosterone which has been
5alpha-reduced, meaning it has had the c4-5 double bond removed by
two hydrogen atoms. This is very interesting from a
chemical/biological standpoint. Once this bond is removed,
testosterone has become DHT, and DHT is the body’s most potent
androgen. DHT has a slew of beneficial effects which are more
pronounced than the hormone it’s created out of. DHT is able to
increase androgen receptor proliferation for almost 24 full hours
(1) DHT also has profound effects on the Central Nervous System
(CNS), and this is why we often see profoundly increased aggression
with athletes who are using DHT derivatives such as Masteron (which
has a deceivingly low anabolic and androgenic rating). As an added
benefit, DHT can not aromatize (convert via the aromatase enzyme)
into estrogen. It’s also noteworthy that the injectable version of
Winstrol is actually the same exact thing as the oral- it’s just
micronized Stanozolol powder suspended in water (or sometimes oil).
So what we have in Winstrol is DHT with two modifications- an added
c17 methylation, and a very weird “pyrazol” group. The c17
methylation has been added in order to allow Winstrol to survive
oral ingestion and the subsequent first pass through the liver. The
pyrazol group is a bit weirder- what this means to you and I is
that it has another whole “ring” attached to the four ring Steran
Nucleus of DHT. Take a look over at the lower left portion of the
two molecules below, and you’ll notice that Winstrol has an added
cyclopentane (5 sided) group (the pyrazol group):
(Omitted diagram)
When we really take a look at Winstrol, the anabolic rating of this
product is very high (320% that of testosterone) as compared to its
androgenic actions (30% of testosterone). Despite this, Winstrol is
really a disappointing drug for size gains. What we typically see
with this stuff is some pretty decent strength gains and some nice
fat loss if the user isn’t too sloppy with their diet. Not many
people report huge weight gains off of Stanozolol. Although many
drugs which bind tightly to the androgen receptor are suspected to
exhibit their at least some of their lipolytic (fat-burning)
effects through receptor binding affinity. The effects of androgens
on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells.(2),
Winstrol remains a potent cutting drug, despite the fact that it
has a relatively weak AR binding ability (3). What this tells me is
that there’s some stuff going on with regards to Winstrol’s
mechanism of action, which doesn’t involve androgen receptor
mediated effects. Still, Winstrol is a very potent compound for
enhancing protein synthesis (4-5 ) .
As previously discussed, it’s derived from DHT, and DHT is known to
have ant-estrogenic effects (6) and Winstrol itself also has anti-
progestenic properties (in at least some cases, where it may
"block" that receptor) (7). So I think it’s safe to say that some
of the “hard” look you can get in your physique from Winstrol is
because of it’s ability to inhibit estrogen and progesterone- known
culprits in making a physique appear smooth. Unfortunately, since
it is 17aa, it is also liver toxic, especially more so when you
inject it and it is subject to what is known as the “first pass”
through the liver. The difference between taking oral vs.
injectable Winstrol, even though it’s technically the same drug, is
how and when your body metabolizes it. When you consume a drug
orally, that drug is absorbed from the Gastrointestinal tract,
where it then passes via the portal vein into the liver -where some
drugs are metabolised. This “first pass” can mean that only a
certain portion of the drug reaches your body’s bloodstream. As
previously discussed, a 17aa has been attached to Winstrol to allow
a sizeable portion to survive this metabolism.
First pass metabolism can occur in both the gut and the liver, and
where this happens can vary with different drugs. First pass
metabolism actually occurs in your gut for some drugs and in the
liver for others. Once it has been metabolized, it enters the
bloodstream. It’s important to note that when a blood is
metabolized in the Gastrointestinal tract, the blood leaving the
Gastrointestinal tract does not go right to the heart, but actually
still passes through liver via the hepatic portal vein and then
ultimately returns to circulation via the hepatic vein. The liver
is your body’s filtration unit, and removes large quantities of
nutrients, dangerous toxins (or fun toxins, depending on what they
are) and other substances from the blood.
So as you can see, when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol,
undergoes a first-pass metabolism in the both the intestines as
well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more or less totally
intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are
absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is
through this first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood
until it is acquired by another tissue, such as skeletal muscle.
Now, if the drug reaches the liver again, it may undergo what is
cleverly known as “second-pass” metabolism. Of course, in the case
of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when we
compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their
effects in your body, I think there’s some surprising differences.
The injectable is (naturally) put right into your bloodstream and
only undergoes the far less extensive second pass metabolism, while
the oral must endure the gut and liver on it’s first pass before
ending up in circulation.
Now, here’s the interesting part: When you inject Winstrol, instead
of taking it orally, you actually get more nitrogen retention (4)
(and hence we can infer, more new muscle tissue is being built). SO
if you are trying to use Winstrol to build new muscle tissue, the
injectable version is going to be far superior to the Oral version.
However, there are some advantages that the oral version has over
the injectable, including a possible “synergy” with other drugs-
but only (primarily) when taken orally.
While in the liver, on it’s first pass, Winstrol is exposed to a
variety of enzymes and proteins. To understand how a possible
synergy between Winstrol and other steroids may be possible, a
little background on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is first
necessary. For our purposes here, all we need to know is that SHBG
is a glycoprotein produced in the liver, which binds to
testosterone and makes it biologically unavailable to do all the
things we want it to do- like building muscle. It serves to
transport testosterone throughout the body, but while it remains
bound to testosterone, the testosterone can not exert it’s anabolic
effects.
(omitted diagram)
As you can surmise, a very large portion of the testosterone in
your body is bound to SHBG. Wouldn’t it be great if we could lower
SHBG? With Winstrol we can.
A fairly conservative oral dose of .2mg/kg of Winstrol has been
shown to lower SHBG by close to 50%. (8)For me (200lbs) this would
mean I would only need around 18mgs/day to free up half of my SHBG
bound testosterone! For my omnipresent and hypothetical “100kg
bodybuilder”- only 20mgs would be needed (he’s 220 lbs for the
metrically impaired among us). Now, with less SHBG floating around
in me, my anabolic steroid cycle will be more effective, right?
Right.
But why can we only expect such a dramatic lowering of SHBG with
the oral? Well, obviously, we’re taking advantage of the first pass
through the liver, where we can have our Winstrol interact with
SHBG where it’s produced- in the liver…without going through the
bloodstream first.
When we take a look at a study done comparing injectable vs. oral
contraceptives, we find that the oral version at 70mgs/week
(10mgs/day given orally) is more effective at affecting SHBG levels
than 400mgs/week given via an injection! (9)In this study,
testosterone undecanoate was given at a constant dose along with
norestisterone (which raises SHBG). What we see is that when
norestisterone is given orally, it produces a far greater effect on
SHBG, than when it is administered via an injection. And this is
even when the doses of the injectable are 4x higher!
Here’s a chart, illustrating exactly what I’m talking about in this
study, which I think suggests very strongly that injectable
versions of drugs, when compared with the oral version, will have
nowhere near as much of an effect on SHBG:
(omitted diagram)
Group I (Black Circles): Injections of 200 mg NETE at study wk 0,
6, 12, and 18 plus injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 2, 6, 12,
and 18 (T free window). Group II (White Diamonds): Injections of
1000 mg TU together with 400 mg NETE at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18.
Group III (Grey Squares): Injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 0,
6, 12, and 18 combined with daily oral 10 mg norethisterone acetate
(NETE) from week 0 to 24 (9)
Of course, in this study, they’re looking at oral vs. injectable
versions of a SHBG raising drug- but what we can take away from it
is that SHBG interaction with oral compounds is far more pronounced
than it is with injectables.
So lets take a small amount of Winstrol with our cycles, and free
up some of those steroids we’re taking, right? Right!
Unless of course, we’re talking about women here…I was recently
asked why I recommend that women use the injectable version of
Winstrol over the oral. I was asked this question by someone, who I
assumed had a female friend who was considering using Winstrol. I
then realized I was totally incorrect- not about Winstrol, but
about the reason behind the question. You see…I saw a picture of
the man who had first asked me the question, and it’s readily
apparent to me that he probably doesn’t actually know any women.
But still, his question is valid and bears repeating and answering
here.
I recommend that women avoid the oral version of this product for
the same reason that men will find that it gives them an increased
synergy and effectiveness in their cycles.
When SHBG is lowered in women, there is more free testosterone
floating around. And as we’ve seen, the oral is going to affect
SHBG exponentially more than the injectable will. When we lower
SHBG too much in women, we see a strong positive correlation with
hyperandrogenism (10 ), and hirsuitism (abnormal growth of body
hair), as well In fact, non-SHBG-bound testosterone may actually be
the defining characteristic for identifying hyperandrogenism in
women. In addition, low SHBG contributes to menstrual
irregularity.(11)
Finally, and (partially) anecdotally, we also see a greater
incidence of clitoral enlargement and acne when the oral version of
Winstrol is used by women instead of the injectable. The reasons
for this are obvious- When we increase free testosterone by
lowering SHBG, we increase the amount of testosterone which is able
to be 5a-reduced to DHT. DHT is the primary culprit for steroid
induced acne, and is also the hormone responsible for external
genital enlargement. Clearly, this is why we see the increased
level of clitoral hypertrophy as well as acne when oral Winstrol is
used by women.
We can also see increased acne when men use Winstrol orally, but
these effects are relatively minor when a 2mg/kg dose is being used
to increase the effectiveness of other steroids in a cycle. This
isn’t carte blanche to go using Winstrol for an extended period of
time under the excuse that it’s increasing the overall
effectiveness of the cycle. Stanozolol has some of the worst liver
toxicity (hepatoxicity) of any oral steroid on a mg for mg basis.
In addition, it’s deleterious effects on your lipid profile
(Cholesterol) are also very pronounced, even at low doses- 6mgs/day
of Stanozolol can lower HDL (good cholesterol)by 33% and raise LDL
(bad cholesterol) by 29% (12 ).
So, hopefully, you’ve reached the end of this article and realized
that Winstrol can be used in any cycle to increase the
effectiveness of it, but that it must be used sparingly due to it’s
possible hepatoxicity and lipid profile effecting properties.
Still, when used in heavy testosterone-based profiles, at a dose
that will cut your SHBG levels in half, it can increase you other
steroids effectiveness quite a bit…but when maximal protein
synthesis is wanted, you need to inject it.
There you go…the differences between oral and injectable Winstrol,
and how you can use either form to maximize your gains! And yes,
Lyle, you can drink Winny.
References:
1. Neural Androgen Receptor Regulation: effects of androgen and
antiandrogen. Lu S, Simon NG, Wang Y, Hu S, J Neurobiol 1999 Dec;
41(4):505-12
2. Endocrinology. 1990 Feb;126(2):1229-34. Xu X, De Pergola G,
Bjorntorp P
3. Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
4. Can J Vet Res. 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8.
5. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1997 Sep 15;211(6):719-22
6. MacDonald PC, Madden JD, Brenner PF, Wilson JD, Siiteri PK 1979
Origin of estrogen in normal men and in women with testicular
feminization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 49:905–916
7. Agents Actions. 1994 Mar;41(1-2):37-43.
8. Sex Hormone Binding Globulin response to the Anabolic steroid:
Stanozolol: Evidence for its suitability as a Biological Androgen
Sensitivity test. J Clin Metab Endocrinol 68: 1195, 1989)
9. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87,No. 2
530-539. An Effective Hormonal Male Contraceptive Using
Testosterone Undecanoate with Oral or Injectable Norethisterone
Preparations Axel Kamischke, Tanja Heuermann, Kathrin Krüger,
Sigrid von Eckardstein, Ilka Schellschmidt, Alexander Rübig and
Eberhard Nieschlag Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the
University (A.K., T.H., K.K., S.V.E., E.N.), D-48129 Münster,
Germany; and Schering AG (I.S., A.R.), D-13342 Berlin, Germany
10. Non-sex hormone-binding globulin-bound testosterone as a marker
for hyperandrogenism DC Cumming and SR Wall J. Clin. Endocrinol.
Metab., Nov 1985; 61: 873 - 876.
11. Menstrual Irregularity in Women with Acromegaly G. A. Kaltsas,
J. J. Mukherjee, P. J. Jenkins, M. A. Satta, N. Islam, J. P.
Monson, G. M. Besser, and A. B. GrossmanJ. Clin. Endocrinol.
Metab., Aug 1999; 84: 2731 – 2735
12. JAMA. 1989 Feb 24;261
1165-8
I tend to shy away from straight “information” articles- in other
words, I’ve never written the “How Androgens Work” article, because
I’ve read it several times by several authors, and I really have
nothing to add. Gene Transcription and Androgen Receptor Action has
been written about over, and over, ad nauseum. All of the articles
I’ve read on the topic are well written and well- they’re all the
same. Don’t get me wrong, all of the articles which discuss the
topic are very informative, but when you’re done reading them, you
don’t really have anything you can “use” in your next cycle.
And I’m sure you know the difference between orals and injectables,
but do yourself a favor and read this article, because I’m going to
explain some things in here that you can use in your next cycle.
Actually, I’m going to explain how you can use Winstrol
(Stanozolol) as either an oral or injectable, and get a very
different set of effects from the same drug- depending on which
route of administration you choose to utilize.
First, lets go over the basics of Winstrol, so we’re all on the
same page here.
Winstrol is a steroid derived from the base structure of
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is just testosterone which has been
5alpha-reduced, meaning it has had the c4-5 double bond removed by
two hydrogen atoms. This is very interesting from a
chemical/biological standpoint. Once this bond is removed,
testosterone has become DHT, and DHT is the body’s most potent
androgen. DHT has a slew of beneficial effects which are more
pronounced than the hormone it’s created out of. DHT is able to
increase androgen receptor proliferation for almost 24 full hours
(1) DHT also has profound effects on the Central Nervous System
(CNS), and this is why we often see profoundly increased aggression
with athletes who are using DHT derivatives such as Masteron (which
has a deceivingly low anabolic and androgenic rating). As an added
benefit, DHT can not aromatize (convert via the aromatase enzyme)
into estrogen. It’s also noteworthy that the injectable version of
Winstrol is actually the same exact thing as the oral- it’s just
micronized Stanozolol powder suspended in water (or sometimes oil).
So what we have in Winstrol is DHT with two modifications- an added
c17 methylation, and a very weird “pyrazol” group. The c17
methylation has been added in order to allow Winstrol to survive
oral ingestion and the subsequent first pass through the liver. The
pyrazol group is a bit weirder- what this means to you and I is
that it has another whole “ring” attached to the four ring Steran
Nucleus of DHT. Take a look over at the lower left portion of the
two molecules below, and you’ll notice that Winstrol has an added
cyclopentane (5 sided) group (the pyrazol group):
(Omitted diagram)
When we really take a look at Winstrol, the anabolic rating of this
product is very high (320% that of testosterone) as compared to its
androgenic actions (30% of testosterone). Despite this, Winstrol is
really a disappointing drug for size gains. What we typically see
with this stuff is some pretty decent strength gains and some nice
fat loss if the user isn’t too sloppy with their diet. Not many
people report huge weight gains off of Stanozolol. Although many
drugs which bind tightly to the androgen receptor are suspected to
exhibit their at least some of their lipolytic (fat-burning)
effects through receptor binding affinity. The effects of androgens
on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells.(2),
Winstrol remains a potent cutting drug, despite the fact that it
has a relatively weak AR binding ability (3). What this tells me is
that there’s some stuff going on with regards to Winstrol’s
mechanism of action, which doesn’t involve androgen receptor
mediated effects. Still, Winstrol is a very potent compound for
enhancing protein synthesis (4-5 ) .
As previously discussed, it’s derived from DHT, and DHT is known to
have ant-estrogenic effects (6) and Winstrol itself also has anti-
progestenic properties (in at least some cases, where it may
"block" that receptor) (7). So I think it’s safe to say that some
of the “hard” look you can get in your physique from Winstrol is
because of it’s ability to inhibit estrogen and progesterone- known
culprits in making a physique appear smooth. Unfortunately, since
it is 17aa, it is also liver toxic, especially more so when you
inject it and it is subject to what is known as the “first pass”
through the liver. The difference between taking oral vs.
injectable Winstrol, even though it’s technically the same drug, is
how and when your body metabolizes it. When you consume a drug
orally, that drug is absorbed from the Gastrointestinal tract,
where it then passes via the portal vein into the liver -where some
drugs are metabolised. This “first pass” can mean that only a
certain portion of the drug reaches your body’s bloodstream. As
previously discussed, a 17aa has been attached to Winstrol to allow
a sizeable portion to survive this metabolism.
First pass metabolism can occur in both the gut and the liver, and
where this happens can vary with different drugs. First pass
metabolism actually occurs in your gut for some drugs and in the
liver for others. Once it has been metabolized, it enters the
bloodstream. It’s important to note that when a blood is
metabolized in the Gastrointestinal tract, the blood leaving the
Gastrointestinal tract does not go right to the heart, but actually
still passes through liver via the hepatic portal vein and then
ultimately returns to circulation via the hepatic vein. The liver
is your body’s filtration unit, and removes large quantities of
nutrients, dangerous toxins (or fun toxins, depending on what they
are) and other substances from the blood.
So as you can see, when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol,
undergoes a first-pass metabolism in the both the intestines as
well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more or less totally
intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are
absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is
through this first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood
until it is acquired by another tissue, such as skeletal muscle.
Now, if the drug reaches the liver again, it may undergo what is
cleverly known as “second-pass” metabolism. Of course, in the case
of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when we
compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their
effects in your body, I think there’s some surprising differences.
The injectable is (naturally) put right into your bloodstream and
only undergoes the far less extensive second pass metabolism, while
the oral must endure the gut and liver on it’s first pass before
ending up in circulation.
Now, here’s the interesting part: When you inject Winstrol, instead
of taking it orally, you actually get more nitrogen retention (4)
(and hence we can infer, more new muscle tissue is being built). SO
if you are trying to use Winstrol to build new muscle tissue, the
injectable version is going to be far superior to the Oral version.
However, there are some advantages that the oral version has over
the injectable, including a possible “synergy” with other drugs-
but only (primarily) when taken orally.
While in the liver, on it’s first pass, Winstrol is exposed to a
variety of enzymes and proteins. To understand how a possible
synergy between Winstrol and other steroids may be possible, a
little background on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is first
necessary. For our purposes here, all we need to know is that SHBG
is a glycoprotein produced in the liver, which binds to
testosterone and makes it biologically unavailable to do all the
things we want it to do- like building muscle. It serves to
transport testosterone throughout the body, but while it remains
bound to testosterone, the testosterone can not exert it’s anabolic
effects.
(omitted diagram)
As you can surmise, a very large portion of the testosterone in
your body is bound to SHBG. Wouldn’t it be great if we could lower
SHBG? With Winstrol we can.
A fairly conservative oral dose of .2mg/kg of Winstrol has been
shown to lower SHBG by close to 50%. (8)For me (200lbs) this would
mean I would only need around 18mgs/day to free up half of my SHBG
bound testosterone! For my omnipresent and hypothetical “100kg
bodybuilder”- only 20mgs would be needed (he’s 220 lbs for the
metrically impaired among us). Now, with less SHBG floating around
in me, my anabolic steroid cycle will be more effective, right?
Right.
But why can we only expect such a dramatic lowering of SHBG with
the oral? Well, obviously, we’re taking advantage of the first pass
through the liver, where we can have our Winstrol interact with
SHBG where it’s produced- in the liver…without going through the
bloodstream first.
When we take a look at a study done comparing injectable vs. oral
contraceptives, we find that the oral version at 70mgs/week
(10mgs/day given orally) is more effective at affecting SHBG levels
than 400mgs/week given via an injection! (9)In this study,
testosterone undecanoate was given at a constant dose along with
norestisterone (which raises SHBG). What we see is that when
norestisterone is given orally, it produces a far greater effect on
SHBG, than when it is administered via an injection. And this is
even when the doses of the injectable are 4x higher!
Here’s a chart, illustrating exactly what I’m talking about in this
study, which I think suggests very strongly that injectable
versions of drugs, when compared with the oral version, will have
nowhere near as much of an effect on SHBG:
(omitted diagram)
Group I (Black Circles): Injections of 200 mg NETE at study wk 0,
6, 12, and 18 plus injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 2, 6, 12,
and 18 (T free window). Group II (White Diamonds): Injections of
1000 mg TU together with 400 mg NETE at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18.
Group III (Grey Squares): Injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 0,
6, 12, and 18 combined with daily oral 10 mg norethisterone acetate
(NETE) from week 0 to 24 (9)
Of course, in this study, they’re looking at oral vs. injectable
versions of a SHBG raising drug- but what we can take away from it
is that SHBG interaction with oral compounds is far more pronounced
than it is with injectables.
So lets take a small amount of Winstrol with our cycles, and free
up some of those steroids we’re taking, right? Right!
Unless of course, we’re talking about women here…I was recently
asked why I recommend that women use the injectable version of
Winstrol over the oral. I was asked this question by someone, who I
assumed had a female friend who was considering using Winstrol. I
then realized I was totally incorrect- not about Winstrol, but
about the reason behind the question. You see…I saw a picture of
the man who had first asked me the question, and it’s readily
apparent to me that he probably doesn’t actually know any women.
But still, his question is valid and bears repeating and answering
here.
I recommend that women avoid the oral version of this product for
the same reason that men will find that it gives them an increased
synergy and effectiveness in their cycles.
When SHBG is lowered in women, there is more free testosterone
floating around. And as we’ve seen, the oral is going to affect
SHBG exponentially more than the injectable will. When we lower
SHBG too much in women, we see a strong positive correlation with
hyperandrogenism (10 ), and hirsuitism (abnormal growth of body
hair), as well In fact, non-SHBG-bound testosterone may actually be
the defining characteristic for identifying hyperandrogenism in
women. In addition, low SHBG contributes to menstrual
irregularity.(11)
Finally, and (partially) anecdotally, we also see a greater
incidence of clitoral enlargement and acne when the oral version of
Winstrol is used by women instead of the injectable. The reasons
for this are obvious- When we increase free testosterone by
lowering SHBG, we increase the amount of testosterone which is able
to be 5a-reduced to DHT. DHT is the primary culprit for steroid
induced acne, and is also the hormone responsible for external
genital enlargement. Clearly, this is why we see the increased
level of clitoral hypertrophy as well as acne when oral Winstrol is
used by women.
We can also see increased acne when men use Winstrol orally, but
these effects are relatively minor when a 2mg/kg dose is being used
to increase the effectiveness of other steroids in a cycle. This
isn’t carte blanche to go using Winstrol for an extended period of
time under the excuse that it’s increasing the overall
effectiveness of the cycle. Stanozolol has some of the worst liver
toxicity (hepatoxicity) of any oral steroid on a mg for mg basis.
In addition, it’s deleterious effects on your lipid profile
(Cholesterol) are also very pronounced, even at low doses- 6mgs/day
of Stanozolol can lower HDL (good cholesterol)by 33% and raise LDL
(bad cholesterol) by 29% (12 ).
So, hopefully, you’ve reached the end of this article and realized
that Winstrol can be used in any cycle to increase the
effectiveness of it, but that it must be used sparingly due to it’s
possible hepatoxicity and lipid profile effecting properties.
Still, when used in heavy testosterone-based profiles, at a dose
that will cut your SHBG levels in half, it can increase you other
steroids effectiveness quite a bit…but when maximal protein
synthesis is wanted, you need to inject it.
There you go…the differences between oral and injectable Winstrol,
and how you can use either form to maximize your gains! And yes,
Lyle, you can drink Winny.
References:
1. Neural Androgen Receptor Regulation: effects of androgen and
antiandrogen. Lu S, Simon NG, Wang Y, Hu S, J Neurobiol 1999 Dec;
41(4):505-12
2. Endocrinology. 1990 Feb;126(2):1229-34. Xu X, De Pergola G,
Bjorntorp P
3. Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
4. Can J Vet Res. 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8.
5. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1997 Sep 15;211(6):719-22
6. MacDonald PC, Madden JD, Brenner PF, Wilson JD, Siiteri PK 1979
Origin of estrogen in normal men and in women with testicular
feminization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 49:905–916
7. Agents Actions. 1994 Mar;41(1-2):37-43.
8. Sex Hormone Binding Globulin response to the Anabolic steroid:
Stanozolol: Evidence for its suitability as a Biological Androgen
Sensitivity test. J Clin Metab Endocrinol 68: 1195, 1989)
9. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87,No. 2
530-539. An Effective Hormonal Male Contraceptive Using
Testosterone Undecanoate with Oral or Injectable Norethisterone
Preparations Axel Kamischke, Tanja Heuermann, Kathrin Krüger,
Sigrid von Eckardstein, Ilka Schellschmidt, Alexander Rübig and
Eberhard Nieschlag Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the
University (A.K., T.H., K.K., S.V.E., E.N.), D-48129 Münster,
Germany; and Schering AG (I.S., A.R.), D-13342 Berlin, Germany
10. Non-sex hormone-binding globulin-bound testosterone as a marker
for hyperandrogenism DC Cumming and SR Wall J. Clin. Endocrinol.
Metab., Nov 1985; 61: 873 - 876.
11. Menstrual Irregularity in Women with Acromegaly G. A. Kaltsas,
J. J. Mukherjee, P. J. Jenkins, M. A. Satta, N. Islam, J. P.
Monson, G. M. Besser, and A. B. GrossmanJ. Clin. Endocrinol.
Metab., Aug 1999; 84: 2731 – 2735
12. JAMA. 1989 Feb 24;261
1165-8
blacksabbath1987
New member
injects fater and you have plenty of places to inject my delts/lats/and traps never was crippled. it is thick but add some bac water to the bottle 0.5 cc and it is smooth sailing.Makavelli said:
swordfish151
New member
I would have to say tabs...
stressman13
New member
I recently asked a question regarding this Anthony Roberts article, and from what I have been hearing most guys do not notice a difference, its just a matter of preference. This article makes some sense but whether or not you would actually notice the difference is another story. I have tried both, and even switched back and forth in the same cycle. I thought that maybe I felt it a bit more when I pinned it, but it could have been in my head. What I do is pin it 2x a week on the days of my other shots and drink it on the other days. I know its not even neccessary, but its not a problem so why not. However if I had Zambons I would def pin them, from what I hear they are smooth as silk. Never used em though. 
rejection_juice said:This article helped me in researching Winny. Hope it helps bro!
I tend to shy away from straight “information” articles- in other
words, I’ve never written the “How Androgens Work” article, because
I’ve read it several times by several authors, and I really have
nothing to add. Gene Transcription and Androgen Receptor Action has
been written about over, and over, ad nauseum. All of the articles
I’ve read on the topic are well written and well- they’re all the
same. Don’t get me wrong, all of the articles which discuss the
topic are very informative, but when you’re done reading them, you
don’t really have anything you can “use” in your next cycle.
And I’m sure you know the difference between orals and injectables,
but do yourself a favor and read this article, because I’m going to
explain some things in here that you can use in your next cycle.
Actually, I’m going to explain how you can use Winstrol
(Stanozolol) as either an oral or injectable, and get a very
different set of effects from the same drug- depending on which
route of administration you choose to utilize.
First, lets go over the basics of Winstrol, so we’re all on the
same page here.
Winstrol is a steroid derived from the base structure of
Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT is just testosterone which has been
5alpha-reduced, meaning it has had the c4-5 double bond removed by
two hydrogen atoms. This is very interesting from a
chemical/biological standpoint. Once this bond is removed,
testosterone has become DHT, and DHT is the body’s most potent
androgen. DHT has a slew of beneficial effects which are more
pronounced than the hormone it’s created out of. DHT is able to
increase androgen receptor proliferation for almost 24 full hours
(1) DHT also has profound effects on the Central Nervous System
(CNS), and this is why we often see profoundly increased aggression
with athletes who are using DHT derivatives such as Masteron (which
has a deceivingly low anabolic and androgenic rating). As an added
benefit, DHT can not aromatize (convert via the aromatase enzyme)
into estrogen. It’s also noteworthy that the injectable version of
Winstrol is actually the same exact thing as the oral- it’s just
micronized Stanozolol powder suspended in water (or sometimes oil).
So what we have in Winstrol is DHT with two modifications- an added
c17 methylation, and a very weird “pyrazol” group. The c17
methylation has been added in order to allow Winstrol to survive
oral ingestion and the subsequent first pass through the liver. The
pyrazol group is a bit weirder- what this means to you and I is
that it has another whole “ring” attached to the four ring Steran
Nucleus of DHT. Take a look over at the lower left portion of the
two molecules below, and you’ll notice that Winstrol has an added
cyclopentane (5 sided) group (the pyrazol group):
(Omitted diagram)
When we really take a look at Winstrol, the anabolic rating of this
product is very high (320% that of testosterone) as compared to its
androgenic actions (30% of testosterone). Despite this, Winstrol is
really a disappointing drug for size gains. What we typically see
with this stuff is some pretty decent strength gains and some nice
fat loss if the user isn’t too sloppy with their diet. Not many
people report huge weight gains off of Stanozolol. Although many
drugs which bind tightly to the androgen receptor are suspected to
exhibit their at least some of their lipolytic (fat-burning)
effects through receptor binding affinity. The effects of androgens
on the regulation of lipolysis in adipose precursor cells.(2),
Winstrol remains a potent cutting drug, despite the fact that it
has a relatively weak AR binding ability (3). What this tells me is
that there’s some stuff going on with regards to Winstrol’s
mechanism of action, which doesn’t involve androgen receptor
mediated effects. Still, Winstrol is a very potent compound for
enhancing protein synthesis (4-5 ) .
As previously discussed, it’s derived from DHT, and DHT is known to
have ant-estrogenic effects (6) and Winstrol itself also has anti-
progestenic properties (in at least some cases, where it may
"block" that receptor) (7). So I think it’s safe to say that some
of the “hard” look you can get in your physique from Winstrol is
because of it’s ability to inhibit estrogen and progesterone- known
culprits in making a physique appear smooth. Unfortunately, since
it is 17aa, it is also liver toxic, especially more so when you
inject it and it is subject to what is known as the “first pass”
through the liver. The difference between taking oral vs.
injectable Winstrol, even though it’s technically the same drug, is
how and when your body metabolizes it. When you consume a drug
orally, that drug is absorbed from the Gastrointestinal tract,
where it then passes via the portal vein into the liver -where some
drugs are metabolised. This “first pass” can mean that only a
certain portion of the drug reaches your body’s bloodstream. As
previously discussed, a 17aa has been attached to Winstrol to allow
a sizeable portion to survive this metabolism.
First pass metabolism can occur in both the gut and the liver, and
where this happens can vary with different drugs. First pass
metabolism actually occurs in your gut for some drugs and in the
liver for others. Once it has been metabolized, it enters the
bloodstream. It’s important to note that when a blood is
metabolized in the Gastrointestinal tract, the blood leaving the
Gastrointestinal tract does not go right to the heart, but actually
still passes through liver via the hepatic portal vein and then
ultimately returns to circulation via the hepatic vein. The liver
is your body’s filtration unit, and removes large quantities of
nutrients, dangerous toxins (or fun toxins, depending on what they
are) and other substances from the blood.
So as you can see, when you take an oral steroid such as Winstrol,
undergoes a first-pass metabolism in the both the intestines as
well as liver. Some drugs can be absorbed more or less totally
intact, after only moderate metabolic activity, while some are
absorbed only after very extensive metabolic activity. Once it is
through this first pass, a given drug then circulates in the blood
until it is acquired by another tissue, such as skeletal muscle.
Now, if the drug reaches the liver again, it may undergo what is
cleverly known as “second-pass” metabolism. Of course, in the case
of Winstrol, an injectable version is available, and when we
compare the oral and injectable versions of Winstrol and their
effects in your body, I think there’s some surprising differences.
The injectable is (naturally) put right into your bloodstream and
only undergoes the far less extensive second pass metabolism, while
the oral must endure the gut and liver on it’s first pass before
ending up in circulation.
Now, here’s the interesting part: When you inject Winstrol, instead
of taking it orally, you actually get more nitrogen retention (4)
(and hence we can infer, more new muscle tissue is being built). SO
if you are trying to use Winstrol to build new muscle tissue, the
injectable version is going to be far superior to the Oral version.
However, there are some advantages that the oral version has over
the injectable, including a possible “synergy” with other drugs-
but only (primarily) when taken orally.
While in the liver, on it’s first pass, Winstrol is exposed to a
variety of enzymes and proteins. To understand how a possible
synergy between Winstrol and other steroids may be possible, a
little background on Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is first
necessary. For our purposes here, all we need to know is that SHBG
is a glycoprotein produced in the liver, which binds to
testosterone and makes it biologically unavailable to do all the
things we want it to do- like building muscle. It serves to
transport testosterone throughout the body, but while it remains
bound to testosterone, the testosterone can not exert it’s anabolic
effects.
(omitted diagram)
As you can surmise, a very large portion of the testosterone in
your body is bound to SHBG. Wouldn’t it be great if we could lower
SHBG? With Winstrol we can.
A fairly conservative oral dose of .2mg/kg of Winstrol has been
shown to lower SHBG by close to 50%. (8)For me (200lbs) this would
mean I would only need around 18mgs/day to free up half of my SHBG
bound testosterone! For my omnipresent and hypothetical “100kg
bodybuilder”- only 20mgs would be needed (he’s 220 lbs for the
metrically impaired among us). Now, with less SHBG floating around
in me, my anabolic steroid cycle will be more effective, right?
Right.
But why can we only expect such a dramatic lowering of SHBG with
the oral? Well, obviously, we’re taking advantage of the first pass
through the liver, where we can have our Winstrol interact with
SHBG where it’s produced- in the liver…without going through the
bloodstream first.
When we take a look at a study done comparing injectable vs. oral
contraceptives, we find that the oral version at 70mgs/week
(10mgs/day given orally) is more effective at affecting SHBG levels
than 400mgs/week given via an injection! (9)In this study,
testosterone undecanoate was given at a constant dose along with
norestisterone (which raises SHBG). What we see is that when
norestisterone is given orally, it produces a far greater effect on
SHBG, than when it is administered via an injection. And this is
even when the doses of the injectable are 4x higher!
Here’s a chart, illustrating exactly what I’m talking about in this
study, which I think suggests very strongly that injectable
versions of drugs, when compared with the oral version, will have
nowhere near as much of an effect on SHBG:
(omitted diagram)
Group I (Black Circles): Injections of 200 mg NETE at study wk 0,
6, 12, and 18 plus injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 2, 6, 12,
and 18 (T free window). Group II (White Diamonds): Injections of
1000 mg TU together with 400 mg NETE at study wk 0, 6, 12, and 18.
Group III (Grey Squares): Injections of 1000 mg TU at study wk 0,
6, 12, and 18 combined with daily oral 10 mg norethisterone acetate
(NETE) from week 0 to 24 (9)
Of course, in this study, they’re looking at oral vs. injectable
versions of a SHBG raising drug- but what we can take away from it
is that SHBG interaction with oral compounds is far more pronounced
than it is with injectables.
So lets take a small amount of Winstrol with our cycles, and free
up some of those steroids we’re taking, right? Right!
Unless of course, we’re talking about women here…I was recently
asked why I recommend that women use the injectable version of
Winstrol over the oral. I was asked this question by someone, who I
assumed had a female friend who was considering using Winstrol. I
then realized I was totally incorrect- not about Winstrol, but
about the reason behind the question. You see…I saw a picture of
the man who had first asked me the question, and it’s readily
apparent to me that he probably doesn’t actually know any women.
But still, his question is valid and bears repeating and answering
here.
I recommend that women avoid the oral version of this product for
the same reason that men will find that it gives them an increased
synergy and effectiveness in their cycles.
When SHBG is lowered in women, there is more free testosterone
floating around. And as we’ve seen, the oral is going to affect
SHBG exponentially more than the injectable will. When we lower
SHBG too much in women, we see a strong positive correlation with
hyperandrogenism (10 ), and hirsuitism (abnormal growth of body
hair), as well In fact, non-SHBG-bound testosterone may actually be
the defining characteristic for identifying hyperandrogenism in
women. In addition, low SHBG contributes to menstrual
irregularity.(11)
Finally, and (partially) anecdotally, we also see a greater
incidence of clitoral enlargement and acne when the oral version of
Winstrol is used by women instead of the injectable. The reasons
for this are obvious- When we increase free testosterone by
lowering SHBG, we increase the amount of testosterone which is able
to be 5a-reduced to DHT. DHT is the primary culprit for steroid
induced acne, and is also the hormone responsible for external
genital enlargement. Clearly, this is why we see the increased
level of clitoral hypertrophy as well as acne when oral Winstrol is
used by women.
We can also see increased acne when men use Winstrol orally, but
these effects are relatively minor when a 2mg/kg dose is being used
to increase the effectiveness of other steroids in a cycle. This
isn’t carte blanche to go using Winstrol for an extended period of
time under the excuse that it’s increasing the overall
effectiveness of the cycle. Stanozolol has some of the worst liver
toxicity (hepatoxicity) of any oral steroid on a mg for mg basis.
In addition, it’s deleterious effects on your lipid profile
(Cholesterol) are also very pronounced, even at low doses- 6mgs/day
of Stanozolol can lower HDL (good cholesterol)by 33% and raise LDL
(bad cholesterol) by 29% (12 ).
So, hopefully, you’ve reached the end of this article and realized
that Winstrol can be used in any cycle to increase the
effectiveness of it, but that it must be used sparingly due to it’s
possible hepatoxicity and lipid profile effecting properties.
Still, when used in heavy testosterone-based profiles, at a dose
that will cut your SHBG levels in half, it can increase you other
steroids effectiveness quite a bit…but when maximal protein
synthesis is wanted, you need to inject it.
There you go…the differences between oral and injectable Winstrol,
and how you can use either form to maximize your gains! And yes,
Lyle, you can drink Winny.
References:
1. Neural Androgen Receptor Regulation: effects of androgen and
antiandrogen. Lu S, Simon NG, Wang Y, Hu S, J Neurobiol 1999 Dec;
41(4):505-12
2. Endocrinology. 1990 Feb;126(2):1229-34. Xu X, De Pergola G,
Bjorntorp P
3. Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
4. Can J Vet Res. 2000 Oct;64(4):246-8.
5. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1997 Sep 15;211(6):719-22
6. MacDonald PC, Madden JD, Brenner PF, Wilson JD, Siiteri PK 1979
Origin of estrogen in normal men and in women with testicular
feminization. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 49:905–916
7. Agents Actions. 1994 Mar;41(1-2):37-43.
8. Sex Hormone Binding Globulin response to the Anabolic steroid:
Stanozolol: Evidence for its suitability as a Biological Androgen
Sensitivity test. J Clin Metab Endocrinol 68: 1195, 1989)
9. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism Vol. 87,No. 2
530-539. An Effective Hormonal Male Contraceptive Using
Testosterone Undecanoate with Oral or Injectable Norethisterone
Preparations Axel Kamischke, Tanja Heuermann, Kathrin Krüger,
Sigrid von Eckardstein, Ilka Schellschmidt, Alexander Rübig and
Eberhard Nieschlag Institute of Reproductive Medicine of the
University (A.K., T.H., K.K., S.V.E., E.N.), D-48129 Münster,
Germany; and Schering AG (I.S., A.R.), D-13342 Berlin, Germany
10. Non-sex hormone-binding globulin-bound testosterone as a marker
for hyperandrogenism DC Cumming and SR Wall J. Clin. Endocrinol.
Metab., Nov 1985; 61: 873 - 876.
11. Menstrual Irregularity in Women with Acromegaly G. A. Kaltsas,
J. J. Mukherjee, P. J. Jenkins, M. A. Satta, N. Islam, J. P.
Monson, G. M. Besser, and A. B. GrossmanJ. Clin. Endocrinol.
Metab., Aug 1999; 84: 2731 – 2735
12. JAMA. 1989 Feb 24;261
BIG DADDY DIESEL
New member
Tabs ... Will never inject Winny again ... pointless unless you like being a pin cushion.
marshallmadman
New member
That actually works real well. I know someone that swears by 100mg injected E.D. along with copious amounts of oral winny.
rosco141 said:
For what it's worth, I'm drinking mine. I'll probably cap it in gel caps and then do the deed.
I'm already injecting EOD so I feel like a pin cushion already.
I'm already injecting EOD so I feel like a pin cushion already.
Can you fill the inject into a cap and swallow it?
I had better luck with injections. Of course the only oral winny I ever did were IP's blue ones. 50mg. Anyone remember those. I had to take 100mg ed to even come close to what I got from 50mg eod of injections. When winny became available in 100mg/ml I was very happy with the Denkal brand but not so happy with the Stanzanol version in the purple label. I can't remember who made it (I think it was something like R&R or something like that. Supposedly from Australia).
