Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below
napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
domestic-supply
puritysourcelabs
UGL OZ
UGFREAK
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsUGL OZUGFREAK

Why do europeans hate war

Lao Tzu

New member
I don't know if its just me, but europeans seem alot less warlike than americans, at least their governments seem less warlike than american governments. Does anyone from europe care to comment on this issue? i have some theories on why this is so.

1. The european public is just as warlike as the american public, but they don't get media coverage. So no one notices.

2. European countries have much smaller economies, so a war would be infeasable w/o multinational support and a great economic depression.

3. Europeans don't pride themselves on being #1, so they can back down from something.

4. Europeans are more socialist than americans, so they place the interests of the people of the world over the interests of patriotism. (i'm catching hell for that, who cares though).

5. Europeans have a history of extreme warfare, and they want to move beyond it (this is why switzerland is so neutral, their history of war made them change their ways).

And my most likely theory

6. Europeans know war first hand. In america war is sitting at home in front of the tv, watching CNN coverage & eating a microwave burrito. In europe war is your grandparents telling you about their houses being blown apart by bombs or watching their friends die. In america, when war does happen we barely know about it (its not like WW1 & 2, where the center of town is blown to bits), and virtually everyone who goes comes back alive & well. Honestly, could any of you tell the Gulf war was going on (aside from those of you who served). There were no negative repercussions in america at large, and most of the people who went came back alive & well. This country hasn't been attacked on its own soil in a massive fashion since the civil war (9/11 wasn't a major event from a war perspective. It was a one time event. Imagine a 9/11 everyday for a few years, that is what berlin & london went through in the 40s).
 
half my family tree only runs back to 1940-45.

that ll do.

also we arent patriots.... more like... i dunno, world citizens.

but it doesn`t matter either way. the us and the EU is like one big the same fat bitch. if either attacks something the other will help.
 
1. When you say no-one what the fuck does that mean, that Americans don't notice? Talk about national solipsism. Americans don't know what's happening anywhere, so fucking what?

2. America is bigger than European countries, that's true, and GDP is scalable also, but the idea that European countries can't finance wars, given the fact that they could project military force large distances since the crusades, and that was on the meager surplus of an agricultural economy, and given the bloody course of European history since then is just silly.

3. Nobody goes to war just to pride themselves "on being # 1" in the real world. That's child like.

4. Trust me, "Europeans" (I'll humor you for a minute that this term means something, though it's just an imprecise abstraction) share the exact same motivations as Americans.

5. You might have a point about the history of warfare in Europe given the couple of hundred million dead in the 20th century, but you only have to look at the various civil wars on the simmer, and the 300,000 recent dead in the former Yugoslavia, and the way that Britain keeps it's permanent seat on the UN security council by cheerleading for the US, to realize the point is academic at best. Switzerland has been neutral since the days of the Triple d'Etente, that doesn't mean shit.

6. "Europeans" don't know war firsthand, the second World War generation is done politically. And if that theory holds any water, why do wars keep happening? The fact had people suffer extremely just increases their capacity for more, it doesn't make them weaker or less warlike. America is much, much less warlike than Britain was when it was a super power.

The average European is better informed about the world that the average American, but this isn't difficult, so it's nothing to be proud of. To most Americans war is like a video game that happens on TV, somebody, somewhere is getting bombed and that is always a good thing, and there is no debate about it, debate is considered "un-American" (whatever that means).
 
i met some guys from boston in greece and all they had to say about the middle east situation was something like "we should prolly just nuke the whole area off the face of the earth."

not saying all americans think like that of course
 
Robert Jan said:
i met some guys from boston in greece and all they had to say about the middle east situation was something like "we should prolly just nuke the whole area off the face of the earth."

not saying all americans think like that of course

Many Americans do think like this. It is probably derived from media bombardment of shows and movies with invincible "good guys", who use huge weapons and kill all of the enemies and not ever get hurt.

Americans have a tendency to be optimistic about how wars or conflicts will be resolved, such as the above quote, where the person was hopeful that enemy 'x' would simply be eradicated with a large weapon and no one on our side would get hurt.

Then there is the opposite side that believes that if just one man or woman on our side may be hurt or killed, then no war is justified.

Both are delusional.
 
nordstrom said:
I don't know if its just me, but europeans seem alot less warlike than americans, at least their governments seem less warlike than american governments. Does anyone from europe care to comment on this issue? i have some theories on why this is so.

1. The european public is just as warlike as the american public, but they don't get media coverage. So no one notices.

2. European countries have much smaller economies, so a war would be infeasable w/o multinational support and a great economic depression.

3. Europeans don't pride themselves on being #1, so they can back down from something.

4. Europeans are more socialist than americans, so they place the interests of the people of the world over the interests of patriotism. (i'm catching hell for that, who cares though).

5. Europeans have a history of extreme warfare, and they want to move beyond it (this is why switzerland is so neutral, their history of war made them change their ways).

And my most likely theory

6. Europeans know war first hand. In america war is sitting at home in front of the tv, watching CNN coverage & eating a microwave burrito. In europe war is your grandparents telling you about their houses being blown apart by bombs or watching their friends die. In america, when war does happen we barely know about it (its not like WW1 & 2, where the center of town is blown to bits), and virtually everyone who goes comes back alive & well. Honestly, could any of you tell the Gulf war was going on (aside from those of you who served). There were no negative repercussions in america at large, and most of the people who went came back alive & well. This country hasn't been attacked on its own soil in a massive fashion since the civil war (9/11 wasn't a major event from a war perspective. It was a one time event. Imagine a 9/11 everyday for a few years, that is what berlin & london went through in the 40s).

I believe Winston Churchill said it best:

"Jaw, Jaw is better than War War"

Having said that, it just goes to shoe how UN-EVOLVED
americans are. Its always a fight with you people.
Ever heard of mediation and diplomacy? No, I guess you
haven't.

Fonz
 
Re: Re: Why do europeans hate war

Fonz said:
Having said that, it just goes to shoe how UN-EVOLVED
americans are. Its always a fight with you people.
Ever heard of mediation and diplomacy? No, I guess you
haven't.

Fonz

Yeah, but you gotta love the Double Quarter Pounder w/ Cheese.
 
Re: Re: Why do europeans hate war

Fonz said:


I believe Winston Churchill said it best:

"Jaw, Jaw is better than War War"

Having said that, it just goes to shoe how UN-EVOLVED
americans are. Its always a fight with you people.
Ever heard of mediation and diplomacy? No, I guess you
haven't.

Fonz

Drop the condescension, FONZ. Look where diplomacy and mediation has gotten Europe in the past.

Also, why are you in the states looking to go to college with such barbarians?
 
Re: Re: Re: Why do europeans hate war

cockdezl said:


Drop the condescension, FONZ. Look where diplomacy and mediation has gotten Europe in the past.

Also, why are you in the states looking to go to college with such barbarians?

Funny, funny.

I guerss you missed the entire GHIST of my post you NEANDERTAHL. :)

LOL

Anyways, the US should listen more to the State Department rather than the Defense contractors.

Whats the War going to cost you? 200 BILLION!!!!

Yep. Cheap.

Plus, in my field of study, the only universities available to me are in the US. And I'm also PAYING for them, so shut it.

Fonz
 
Fonz- your condesention is humorous given the fact that Europe ony exists as free mations because of the US.

You guys were about a year from being conquered.

How many Americans lost their lives in doing so??
 
HUGHJORGEN said:
Fonz- your condesention is humorous given the fact that Europe ony exists as free mations because of the US.

You guys were about a year from being conquered.

How many Americans lost their lives in doing so??

Here we go again..........

I guess being thick is a national trait.

Iraq is a SOVEREIGN nation, plus THEY ARE MUSLIM. You seriously
think the other muslim nations WILL DO NOTHING while
you STEAL IRAQ's OIL?????

You are going to steal IRAQ blind. Do NOT deny this.

You people are nuts. Plain and simple.

Remember 9/11? Well if you invade Iraq, it'll be worse.

You made the mistake of forgetting the religious dimension before, and it looks like you're doing it again.

Fonz
 
Nordstrom, its a mixture of factors.

The point about WW2 was well made. We've had some bad shit happen and most of us learnt somethnig from it. I dont think that the USA has had that opportunity yet. It sometimes seems like they want to go for war for status and political reasons rather than the right reasons.

Financially I don't think we are as well positioned to fight endless wars. For example, a recent bone of contention on whether the UK should support the US invasion of Iraq was money. We had a choice......improve parts of our country that need improving or fight another pointless war. I hope the first option is taken. Bollix's point about everybody being able to afford it becausde of the crusades is just laughable. For every war we fight, something else must be put on hold.



nordstrom said:
I don't know if its just me, but europeans seem alot less warlike than americans, at least their governments seem less warlike than american governments. Does anyone from europe care to comment on this issue? i have some theories on why this is so.

1. The european public is just as warlike as the american public, but they don't get media coverage. So no one notices.

2. European countries have much smaller economies, so a war would be infeasable w/o multinational support and a great economic depression.

3. Europeans don't pride themselves on being #1, so they can back down from something.

4. Europeans are more socialist than americans, so they place the interests of the people of the world over the interests of patriotism. (i'm catching hell for that, who cares though).

5. Europeans have a history of extreme warfare, and they want to move beyond it (this is why switzerland is so neutral, their history of war made them change their ways).

And my most likely theory

6. Europeans know war first hand. In america war is sitting at home in front of the tv, watching CNN coverage & eating a microwave burrito. In europe war is your grandparents telling you about their houses being blown apart by bombs or watching their friends die. In america, when war does happen we barely know about it (its not like WW1 & 2, where the center of town is blown to bits), and virtually everyone who goes comes back alive & well. Honestly, could any of you tell the Gulf war was going on (aside from those of you who served). There were no negative repercussions in america at large, and most of the people who went came back alive & well. This country hasn't been attacked on its own soil in a massive fashion since the civil war (9/11 wasn't a major event from a war perspective. It was a one time event. Imagine a 9/11 everyday for a few years, that is what berlin & london went through in the 40s).
 
Re: Re: Why do europeans hate war

Imnotdutch said:
Nordstrom, its a mixture of factors.

The point about WW2 was well made. We've had some bad shit happen and most of us learnt somethnig from it. I dont think that the USA has had that opportunity yet. It sometimes seems like they want to go for war for status and political reasons rather than the right reasons.

Financially I don't think we are as well positioned to fight endless wars. For example, a recent bone of contention on whether the UK should support the US invasion of Iraq was money. We had a choice......improve parts of our country that need improving or fight another pointless war. I hope the first option is taken. Bollix's point about everybody being able to afford it becausde of the crusades is just laughable. For every war we fight, something else must be put on hold.




Perfect response.

Prepare to get flamed though, as the truth invariably HURTS.

Fonz
 
Maybe Iraq and the US should send their respective champion armwrestlers to a neutral location and we could settle it that way.
 
casavant said:
Maybe Iraq and the US should send their respective champion armwrestlers to a neutral location and we could settle it that way.

LMFAO

All the US needs to do is eliminate Saddam. Cut off the snake's
head so to speak. There is NO REASON to invade Iraq.
They call it "National Security Issues". What a farce.

Fonz
 
Re: Re: Re: Why do europeans hate war

Thanks.......

They can flame all they like. I said it the way it is.

I am still failing a legitimate reason to pick on Iraq......there are many countries that could pose a similar threat.

Fonz said:


Perfect response.

Prepare to get flamed though, as the truth invariably HURTS.

Fonz
 
Re: Re: Re: Why do europeans hate war

kingjohn said:


you should watch your mouth, son.


When you say UN-EVOLVED, what exactly are referring to?


You may be PAYING for college in the US. BUt money works everywhere. Why don't you go to school and PAY somewhere else. By the by, I am quite sure YOU are not personally paying for anything. Tell me I am wrong.

Make sure to thank your mommy and daddy.

KingJohn,

Evolution is all about taking advantage of alternative options. Talking and diplomacy are the alternative options in this case. They should at least be considered.
 
Re: Re: Re: Why do europeans hate war

kingjohn said:


you should watch your mouth, son.


When you say UN-EVOLVED, what exactly are referring to?


You may be PAYING for college in the US. BUt money works everywhere. Why don't you go to school and PAY somewhere else. By the by, I am quite sure YOU are not personally paying for anything. Tell me I am wrong.

Make sure to thank your mommy and daddy.

Un-EVOLVED: The world does not evlove around the US.

We live in a planet, with MANY nations, not just ONE.

And please........I have my own money.

Fonz
 
kingjohn said:
do you mean evolve or revolve around the US?

Sarcasm is the recourse of a weak mind.

No doubt about it.

Fonz
 
HUGHJORGEN said:
Fonz- your condesention is humorous given the fact that Europe ony exists as free mations because of the US.

You guys were about a year from being conquered.

How many Americans lost their lives in doing so??

the soviets played just as big a part too bro.

and the US didn't enter WWII because they felt like being helpful to the europeans. they did so because so because of self interest.
 
I would much rather live within a population that has a warlike mindset instead of living with a bunch of peace loving pussies. If someone decides to come for the US I would much rather be surrounded by people who are willing to fight to the death instead of just sitting back and being walked all over. You pussies in France here that!
 
The Nature Boy said:


the soviets played just as big a part too bro.

and the US didn't enter WWII because they felt like being helpful to the europeans. they did so because so because of self interest.
Actually the USSR was much more instrumental in the defeat of Hitler.

Since when did any country not act out of self interest? I'm sure that a good archaeologist could "dig" up a few civilizations that acted selflessly. The Mayans for example?
 
The Germans would have lost even if the US hadn't belatedly entered the war when they did. 75% of German military casualties were suffered on the eastern front. In any case half of Europe ended up under Stalin's dictatorship, no less evil than Hitler; victory is largely a matter of perspective on that one.
 
number 6 is correct. Plus we had a rather nasty one in the balkans recently. Greece had a war in the 70s, and so on. France went to war against Algeria... plenty of vets in the voting public who don't fancy that again... and none of these were very far away....

Come to think of it, Greece is about 500 miles from Iraq in a straight line, although further from Bagdad....
 
I think WW2 pretty much explains it. two of the strongest countries was bombed back to the stone age. Just see how the former USSR is doing now, not good. So they arent gonne start a war anyday soon. And Germany dont wanna spawn anymore devilseeds. I hope. Cuz war IS and always will be terrible.
 
Doktor Bollix said:
The Germans would have lost even if the US hadn't belatedly entered the war when they did. 75% of German military casualties were suffered on the eastern front. In any case half of Europe ended up under Stalin's dictatorship, no less evil than Hitler; victory is largely a matter of perspective on that one.
I'm not so sure. While casualties ran much higher on the eastern front, the bulk of their best weapons were deployed against England and the U.S. They sent tanks, bodies, and artillery to Russia without even enough warm clothes. Their best stuff (Luftwaffe) was used on England and us.
 
HUGHJORGEN said:
Fonz- your condesention is humorous given the fact that Europe ony exists as free mations because of the US.

You guys were about a year from being conquered.

How many Americans lost their lives in doing so??

You know Holywood sometimes embellishes the truth.......please remember that.
 
i'd like to think itas because we understand or at least mentally comprehend the true horror of a war upon the civillian populace

im not 100% against a war.....the only thing that motoivates me for it is the absolute mess the allies made of it the first time round, in that they left saddam bombed but alive and kicking, his populace suffering, a whole load of cancers if the statistics are to be believed etc

the last gulf war was a bit more acceptable last time. muslims were appaled that an islamic country took arms against another one (IMHO not the first time and a null point, i find it hippocritical in a sense, but remeber its what they think that counts).....but look at the political situation nowadays- its really not good PR to go after another muslim country without playiong out the political alternatives. send the inspectors in at the very least.....america asking the UN to demand inspectors to go in and then disregard their descision later seems senseless
 
HUGHJORGEN said:
Fonz- your condesention is humorous given the fact that Europe ony exists as free mations because of the US.

You guys were about a year from being conquered.

How many Americans lost their lives in doing so??

because of the US??? wow, dont belive everthing CNN tells you, the US goes to war mainly cause of its interests, do you think they liberated kuwait cause they wanted to be 'good', no it was oil interests, the US went into the war after the attack on pearl harbor, and 85%+ of the german casulties were not even US related, the US came into the war after it was basically over,

no wonder EVERY country in the world hates the US, with the We are the best, you all should be thankful for the US, withouth the US you would be nothing attitude, bullshit

the muslims were the first group of people that took revenge on the US for their action, no other people had done that and this took the US by shock, give it some years, the US will be blooming with terriorists, not only by the arabs, but by many other nationailties cause of their new first attack policy,

soon we will have north korean, iranian, iraqi, colombian, israly terriorits terriosts, the US really needs to stop being so agressive, and let other countires live their lives the way they choose, a war with china is inevitable,
 
ImSoBig said:


because of the US??? wow, dont belive everthing CNN tells you, the US goes to war mainly cause of its interests, do you think they liberated kuwait cause they wanted to be 'good', no it was oil interests, the US went into the war after the attack on pearl harbor, and 85%+ of the german casulties were not even US related, the US came into the war after it was basically over,

Ever heard of "rational self-interest"? It is more times than not, better than altruism, which I hate to tell you, no country follows.

soon we will have north korean, iranian, iraqi, colombian, israly terriorits terriosts, the US really needs to stop being so agressive, and let other countires live their lives the way they choose, a war with china is inevitable,

You condescended the US first, by claiming that we are not acting in the "interest of others", and then you talk about letting totalitarian countries live their own lives. Do you really think that despotism is the political choice of the inhabitants? Every country you mentioned has no respect for natural rights, their people are merely means to an end for the controlling factions.

But I agree, the US cannot make people want to live better, they need to discover this for themselves. Unfortunately, they are not going through any type of Enlightenment period, as was seen in the West which produced ideologies that promoted the rights of men and the concept of governments derived by the people.
 
Top Bottom