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Whither Gun Control?

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Whither Gun Control?
FNC | 05/21/2004 | John R. Lott, Jr.

This month, the Million Mom March (search) in Washington drew an anemic showing of only 2,000 people, while this year, all of the Democratic presidential candidates— however unenthusiastically— spoke of Americans’ Second Amendment (search) right to own guns. These are just a few of the signs that the facts finally seem to be catching up to the movement. The future for the movement looks even worse.

Whether the subject is concealed handgun laws (search) or bans on semi-automatic so-called “assault weapons,” (search) gun control debates have been filled with apocalyptic claims about what will happen if gun control is not adopted. One common prediction is that laws allowing the carrying of a concealed weapon will result in crime waves, or permit holders shooting others. However, with 37 states now having right-to-carry laws (search), and another nine states letting some citizens carry, permit holders have continually shown themselves to be extremely law-abiding. It is becoming more and more difficult to attack those laws.

Disarray among gun controllers is becoming common, even on one cornerstone of the gun control movement — the semi-automatic gun ban. Take the statements made on National Public Radio by a representative of the Violence Policy Center (search) just one week after the assault weapon extension was defeated in the Senate this March.

NPR described the VPC as "one of the more aggressive gun groups in Washington." Yet the VPC's representative claimed: “If the existing assault-weapons ban expires, I personally do not believe it will make one whit of difference one way or another in terms of our objective, which is reducing death and injury and getting a particularly lethal class of firearms off the streets. So if it doesn’t pass, it doesn’t pass.”

The NPR reporter noted: "[the Violence Policy Center's representative] says that's all the [assault-weapons ban] brought about, minor changes in appearance that didn't alter the function of these weapons.”

Yet, before the Senate vote the VPC had long claimed that it was a "myth" that "assault weapons merely look different. The NRA and the gun industry today portray assault weapons as misunderstood ugly ducklings, no different from other semi-automatic guns. But while the actions, or internal mechanisms, of all semi-automatic guns are similar, the actions of assault weapons are part of a broader design package. The 'ugly' looks of the TEC-9, AR-15, AK-47 and similar guns reflect this package of features designed to kill people efficiently."

So why the sudden disarray after the Senate defeat? Simply, gun-control groups' credibility is on the line and they are getting cold feet. With no academic research showing the assault weapons ban reduces crime, gun control groups realize that soon it will be obvious to everyone that their predicted horror stories about "assault weapons" were completely wrong.

Internationally, dramatic gun control victories in countries such as England, Australia, and Canada are also unraveling.

— Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in January 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. Yet, serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29 percent higher than 1996; robbery was 24 percent higher; murders 27 percent higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50 percent from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels.

— Australia has also seen its violent crime rates soar after its Port Arthur gun control measures (search) in late 1996. Violent crime rates averaged 32 per cent higher in the six years after the law was passed (from 1997 to 2002) than they did the year before the law in 1996. The same comparisons for armed robbery rates showed increases of 45 percent.

— The 2000 International Crime Victimization Survey, the most recent survey done, shows that the violent crime rate in England and Australia was twice the rate in the US.

— Canada has not gone anywhere near as far as the United Kingdom or Australia. Nevertheless, their gun registration system is costing roughly a thousand times more than promised and has grown to be extremely unpopular, with only 17 percent of Canadians in a poll release this week supporting the system. Nor does the system seem to be providing any protection. The Canadian government recently admitted that they could not identify even a single violent crime that had been solved by registration.

Everyone wants to take guns away from criminals. The problem is that if the law-abiding citizens obey the laws and the criminals don’t, the rules create sitting ducks who cannot defend themselves. While the debate is hardly over, gun control is just another example of government planning that hasn’t lived up to its billing. And like other types of government planning, eventually its failures become too overwhelming to ignore.

John Lott, Jr., is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and is the author of The Bias Against Guns (Regnery 2004).
 
what do you peopl (gun owners) think of HK handguns? i know they are fairly more expensive, but are they worth it?
 
p0ink said:
that's what i was looking at. what is a threaded barrel used for other than a silencer?

If you mean the actual muzzle, suppressor is indeed the only thing I can think of at the moment.
 
p0ink said:
do you need a class 3 license to buy a silencer?

Not sure about the class III but you do have to pay the transfer tax and therefore be registered with the ATF (or whatever they're calling themselves nowadays).
 
p0ink said:
Whether the subject is concealed handgun laws (search) or bans on semi-automatic so-called “assault weapons,” (search) gun control debates have been filled with apocalyptic claims about what will happen if gun control is not adopted. One common prediction is that laws allowing the carrying of a concealed weapon will result in crime waves, or permit holders shooting others. However, with 37 states now having right-to-carry laws (search), and another nine states letting some citizens carry, permit holders have continually shown themselves to be extremely law-abiding. It is becoming more and more difficult to attack those laws.

someone CC this to the fucking FBI so they get off my mother fucking ass.
 
Where exactly is the limit to weapons ownership? and why?
Are you allowed to own a tank?
a bazooka?
can you have a machine gun installed in/on your car?
Can you have handgrenades?
Can you have a fully automatic with a large caliber?
Can you have a flamethrower?
 
automatics you must have a Class ||| license for.

tank...prolly.

bazooka....prolly not. maybe under Class |||.

Machine gun installed on car....prolly not.

handgrenades...as far as i know, no.

fully auto with large caliber...Class |||. (just how large caliber are we talking?)

flamethrower....prolly not.

limits....because people think that people that legally buy weapons are giong to commit crimes. also, if it's availible legally, it makes it easier to get illegially. doesn't matter though, you can get whatever you want illegially for the right price.
 
p0ink said:
how do glocks compare to HK's?

i have a tax refund check ready to invest on a handgun.

IMHO, the trigger on the Glock is not near the quality of the H&K - thing about Glocks is that you either love them or hate them - I fall into the latter camp.

Best advice is to try 'em both and go from there. But, I have never heard of anyone who purchased an H&K that wasn't very happy with it.
 
the thing that turns me off about Glocks is the lack of a safety. granted, you, as the user, are the ULTIMATE safety in the realm of gun control, and you should NEVER trust a safety on a gun and just assume that since it's on, you won't have an ND, but it's nice to have a safety. good extra piece of protection to keep YOU from having an accident.
 
yeah, HK get awesome reviews everywhere i go, but they are pretty damn expensive. the best price you can get for a new USP is 1g compared to 500-600 for a glock 21.
 
p0ink said:
yeah, HK get awesome reviews everywhere i go, but they are pretty damn expensive. the best price you can get for a new USP is 1g compared to 500-600 for a glock 21.

Been a while (maybe a year) since I priced them but I am pretty sure you can currently get a USP for around 700-800 bucks. What caliber are you looking at and where are you located?
 
i really like the HK USP 45 tactical. best price i have seen so far is $939 on a gun auction site. i only want new. i'm in colorado.
 
Do a little searching locally bro - I would bet that you can beat that price if you spend some time. The pistol you mention is very sweet. If you are going solely on caliber, look at some M1911's - classic that is hard to beat (favorite in my collection is a Kimber Gold Match II - best pistol I have ever fired and I've fired a couple).
 
p0ink said:
Whither Gun Control?
FNC | 05/21/2004 | John R. Lott, Jr.

This month, the Million Mom March (search) in Washington drew an anemic showing of only 2,000 people, while this year, all of the Democratic presidential candidates— however unenthusiastically— spoke of Americans’ Second Amendment (search) right to own guns. These are just a few of the signs that the facts finally seem to be catching up to the movement. The future for the movement looks even worse.

Whether the subject is concealed handgun laws (search) or bans on semi-automatic so-called “assault weapons,” (search) gun control debates have been filled with apocalyptic claims about what will happen if gun control is not adopted. One common prediction is that laws allowing the carrying of a concealed weapon will result in crime waves, or permit holders shooting others. However, with 37 states now having right-to-carry laws (search), and another nine states letting some citizens carry, permit holders have continually shown themselves to be extremely law-abiding. It is becoming more and more difficult to attack those laws.

Disarray among gun controllers is becoming common, even on one cornerstone of the gun control movement — the semi-automatic gun ban. Take the statements made on National Public Radio by a representative of the Violence Policy Center (search) just one week after the assault weapon extension was defeated in the Senate this March.

NPR described the VPC as "one of the more aggressive gun groups in Washington." Yet the VPC's representative claimed: “If the existing assault-weapons ban expires, I personally do not believe it will make one whit of difference one way or another in terms of our objective, which is reducing death and injury and getting a particularly lethal class of firearms off the streets. So if it doesn’t pass, it doesn’t pass.”

The NPR reporter noted: "[the Violence Policy Center's representative] says that's all the [assault-weapons ban] brought about, minor changes in appearance that didn't alter the function of these weapons.”

Yet, before the Senate vote the VPC had long claimed that it was a "myth" that "assault weapons merely look different. The NRA and the gun industry today portray assault weapons as misunderstood ugly ducklings, no different from other semi-automatic guns. But while the actions, or internal mechanisms, of all semi-automatic guns are similar, the actions of assault weapons are part of a broader design package. The 'ugly' looks of the TEC-9, AR-15, AK-47 and similar guns reflect this package of features designed to kill people efficiently."

So why the sudden disarray after the Senate defeat? Simply, gun-control groups' credibility is on the line and they are getting cold feet. With no academic research showing the assault weapons ban reduces crime, gun control groups realize that soon it will be obvious to everyone that their predicted horror stories about "assault weapons" were completely wrong.

Internationally, dramatic gun control victories in countries such as England, Australia, and Canada are also unraveling.

— Crime did not fall in England after handguns were banned in January 1997. Quite the contrary, crime rose sharply. Yet, serious violent crime rates from 1997 to 2002 averaged 29 percent higher than 1996; robbery was 24 percent higher; murders 27 percent higher. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50 percent from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned, the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels.

— Australia has also seen its violent crime rates soar after its Port Arthur gun control measures (search) in late 1996. Violent crime rates averaged 32 per cent higher in the six years after the law was passed (from 1997 to 2002) than they did the year before the law in 1996. The same comparisons for armed robbery rates showed increases of 45 percent.

— The 2000 International Crime Victimization Survey, the most recent survey done, shows that the violent crime rate in England and Australia was twice the rate in the US.

— Canada has not gone anywhere near as far as the United Kingdom or Australia. Nevertheless, their gun registration system is costing roughly a thousand times more than promised and has grown to be extremely unpopular, with only 17 percent of Canadians in a poll release this week supporting the system. Nor does the system seem to be providing any protection. The Canadian government recently admitted that they could not identify even a single violent crime that had been solved by registration.

Everyone wants to take guns away from criminals. The problem is that if the law-abiding citizens obey the laws and the criminals don’t, the rules create sitting ducks who cannot defend themselves. While the debate is hardly over, gun control is just another example of government planning that hasn’t lived up to its billing. And like other types of government planning, eventually its failures become too overwhelming to ignore.

John Lott, Jr., is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and is the author of The Bias Against Guns (Regnery 2004).

Why do you never post links to articles or essays? ARG!
 
why does it matter? the credits are right there. go google it up if you must read it on the original page.
 
yep. i've done a LOAD of research and there isn't any credible evidence to support such bans. criminals obtain an overwhelmingly large percentage of their weapons illegally. the laws are not going to affect criminals.

just a note though, John Lott, Jr. is a huge conservative gun rights supporter, so there is to be some bias expected behind his claims. However he's done a number of thorough studies that gun control advocates just haven't been able to match.
 
Class 3 licences require a silencer. bazookas, and hand grenades require a destructive device license. As far as the need of a silencer, why not? Anything that protects my hearing and makes shooting more enjoyable is worthwhile to me.

As far as H&k usp pistols, they are nice but dont fit my hand well. I am a glock owner and have become quite competent with it. The lack of a safety does not bother me. keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Remember, revolvers have no safety either. As mentioned before, the best way to select a pistol is to try as many different models as possible and see what works best for you.
 
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