Which cycle is better for mass and strength (first timer)?

[WannaBPowerful]

I will do one of these two cycles. I dont wanna hold too much water, but i wanna get bigger and stronger. Stats now 5'8 180lbs 9% bf and im almost 20. If you believe one of these would be better, but need to be altered, please add your input. It will be my first cycle. I have taken PH's before though.

250mg Organon rediject sust : one shot per week for 10 weeks.
Clomid 3 weeks after last injection (300mg first day, 100mg next 10, and 50mg last 10)

OR

dbol 40mg for first 4 weeks OR front load Enanthate at 750 (which should i do?)
500mg of Testiviron or Primotestan Enanthate one shot per week for 10 weeks.
5. arimidex EOD through entire cycle
Clomid 2 weeks after last injection (300mg first day, 100mg next 10, and 50mg last 10)

NOLVADEX on hand just in case

 

[mvmaxx]

I like the 2nd option. But I'd do the test 2x/week. Split it up so you do 1cc (250mg) on Monday and another on Thursday.

.5mg EOD of the Arimidex may or may not be enough depending upon how sensitive to estrogen you are and having Nolvadex on hand is a wise choice.

 

[British Bulldog]

Do test at 500mg/week for 10 weeks. Start cycle with 4 weeks of dianabol. Use Armidex to prevent any water bloat & you should be fine.

Personally I would use anavar for max strength gains, combined with test for mass.

 

[deify]

First timer, I would just do a pyramid of sust 250 (250,250,500,500,500,500,250,250) if you're just going to mess with the test. Otherwise my personal favorite first cycle is dbol / equipose.

 

[gilly6993]

500 mg of test a week with liquidex and you're golden......

 

[WannaBPowerful]

Was told that if i inject twice a week and split the doseage, i would have more jagged testosterone levels, and it would be easier anyway as a newbie to do it in one big dose.

What role would liquidex play?

Would arimidex at .5 ED be a better choice?

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

Was told that if i inject twice a week and split the doseage, i would have more jagged testosterone levels, and it would be easier anyway as a newbie to do it in one big dose.

HAHA! Who told you that!? Your levels would fluctuate much more with 1 shot a week!

 

[gilly6993]

Was told that if i inject twice a week and split the doseage, i would have more jagged testosterone levels, and it would be easier anyway as a newbie to do it in one big dose.

What role would liquidex play?

Would arimidex at .5 ED be a better choice?

liquidex and arimidex are one in the same....liquidex is anostrozole suspended in a liquid....

 

[WannaBPowerful]

HAHA! Who told you that!? Your levels would fluctuate much more with 1 shot a week!

deek said it : "Opposite of what everyone else is saying here, I don't think you'll see any diff. if you shoot 250mg 2x a week or 500mg once per week. The top of the chart showing your test levels would probably be about the same, except for having a more "jagged" top with shooting 2x weekly"

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176308

Right or wrong, who agrees or disagrees?

 

[Pat Mycroch]

wrong

 

[WannaBPowerful]

So two doses (mon and thurs) would be best?

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

most people except that one guy would a gree that 2 shots would be best.

Like takin Dbol. 25mg all at once wont be as effective at 25mg split up throughout the day

 

[WannaBPowerful]

Im new at this, so i have no idea about dbol. Do i really need 40mg per day for 4 weeks? I was thinkin maybe even makin it only 3 weeks becuase its my first cycle. Should i back down the doseage as well?

 

[akathegame]

WBP,

Ummm, I'm not really sure how those two cycles are the two you are trying to choose between bro. I'm not flaming at all, I just think its worth noting that those two cycles are like night and day. I have read the original post about 5 times thinking I must be misunderstanding. I can tell you have done some homework though bro cuz most are far too lazy to post one cycle indea much less two. I hope you won't take this as an insult, but I'd recommend neither really.

The first cycle is just too weak and the other is way over doing it for a first timer. You definitely don't need a gram plus to grow friend. The types of gear in the second cycle are spot on for some great growth though the volumes need some tweaking. Here what I would do: For all ten weeks of the cycle I'd run the sust at 250-500mg weekly. If you react well to gear, as I have been blessed to do, you'll grow like a weed on your first cycle with the baseline test at 250, but if you really insist, 500mg will be fine as well. I'd run the dbol at 20-25mg daily for the first 6 weeks. I've said this many times before and I'll say it again, "the best gains you'll see from a test/dbol stack will come in weeks 4-6 when the dbol is running strong and the test is really kicking in." Anything less than 6 weeks with the combo is a tragedy, let the gear make you grow guys! If you've got patience and a strong commitment to doing things right, start at the lower recommended dosages and increase to the greater dosages only if you are not seeing satisfactory results in the neighborhood of 3-5lbsa weeks. Less is success if you get the growth you're looking for. The test run will solidify the gains and your clomid therapy iswell researched. I would recommend you scoop up some arimidex rather than nolvadex if thats possible, it far more effective as an anti-estro and I like to use it even when estro isn't a problems to maintain hardness. For this purpose .5 EOD should work and thats not too much of a knock to your wallet.

Eat, train and sleep right bro cuz they don't come any better than your first! Mine was a sust/dbol stack too and just thinking of it brings a tear to my eye. You'll fall in love with the scale and the mirror! The strength gains you will never understand until you experience them. Its too sweet. Best of Luck bro and let me know if I can help you out further. Out.

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

drop the dbol to 25mg ed

 

[The Architect]

You will not need 40mg of dbol if it is your first time. 20mg will blow you up. If your doing enanthate you only need to do 1 shot a week. But with the sust i would split the shots b/c of the prop.

 

[WannaBPowerful]

thanx guys, helped me out a lot. karma to all

Now last thing i wanna do is get a price check on these two cycles. Would appreciate it if someone could give me a general price range for each:

Organon rediject sust amps(250mg) each? 10
Clomid (50mg) tbs. each?

Testaviron or Primostan Enanthate (250mg) amps each?
Thai Dbol (5mg) tbs. each? Do i need to buy these in bulk? They are the pink ones right?
Arimidex (mg?) tbs. each? Do i need to buy in bulk?

Is nolvadex necessary to have on hand for the second cycle, even though il b on arimidex .5 EOD?

Dont really need an anti-e for first cycle right, except clomid at the end?

 

[WannaBPowerful]

First timer, I would just do a pyramid of sust 250 (250,250,500,500,500,500,250,250) if you're just going to mess with the test. Otherwise my personal favorite first cycle is dbol / equipose.

Also, if i decide to go with the first cycle, would the pyramid suggeted by deify be best?

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

A single ester test, such as enanthate will be considerably cheaper than Sust.

You can get Reforvit-b tabs for pretty damn cheap plus they are 25mg per tab. very good buy, just make sure to split them up