what is meant by suicidal AI..

[flyingjer]

what is meant by an AI being suicidal. i think the context has been geared towards aromasin being this, think i also heard that letrozole is too, but what does that mean?

 

[Mr.X]

what is meant by an AI being suicidal. i think the context has been geared towards aromasin being this, think i also heard that letrozole is too, but what does that mean?

Suicidal AI = suicidal aromatase inhibitor , it's supposed to preven most/all testosterone from aromatizing (turning into estrogen). SAI's are not highly recommended by me because males still need estrogen in their body to stay healthy and functional.

 

[flyingjer]

which AI's are suicidal?

 

[Mr.X]

which AI's are suicidal?

aromasin is probably the best known suicidal AI.

for me arimidex is the best time proven anti-e you can use. You don't need 'studies' to prove it, try it out - it works well. As you spend more time here, you'll see that experience and trial/error is what counts.

 

[flyingjer]

yeah if yoiu remember me i have used a-dex with not much luck, i didn't think that aromasin was as strong as letrozole, is letrozole a suicide AI too? i am confused i thought i was solid on my choice on femara as the best AI for me for it being the strongest, but you are saying that aromasin is suicidal and it doesn't affect cholesterol, so that should be my choice now???

 

[Mr.X]

yeah if yoiu remember me i have used a-dex with not much luck, i didn't think that aromasin was as strong as letrozole, is letrozole a suicide AI too? i am confused i thought i was solid on my choice on femara as the best AI for me for it being the strongest, but you are saying that aromasin is suicidal and it doesn't affect cholesterol, so that should be my choice now???

Wait, you're throwing a lot of questions my way at once. If arimidex wasn't for you, try letrozole (femara), it should work for you. Some gyno/estrogen prone individuals do need more anti-Es or stronger anti-Es due to their estrogen response. Keep in mind, if you're using something like deca or tren and getting sides, the aromatase inhibitors will not do anything.

 

[flyingjer]

sorry for the rant, basically my question is, is femara suicidal, and what is stronger aromasin or femara.

 

[Maetenloch]

This is something I've wondered about as well. Aromasin (as well as 6-oxo) are suicide inhibitors - meaning that they attach to the aromatase enzyme in an irreversible way that inactivates it until it's broken down. Arimidex is referred to as an aromatase inhibitor. It's unclear from the drug insert exactly how it lowers the activity of aromatase. How is it's effect different?

 

[Mr.X]

sorry for the rant, basically my question is, is femara suicidal, and what is stronger aromasin or femara.

Aromasin is a type I AI (suicidal AI) - it binds aromatase irreversibly.

Arimidex and letrozole are class II AIs, which work by competitive inhibition of aromatase.

Technically (on paper), aromasin is superior, but personal experience has shown letrozole (femara) to be much stronger.

 

[Makavelli]

I agree with X. Arimidex is the best AI for me. I use 2 mgs/day while dieting. It eliminates all the water and I don't have any sides.

 

[Mr.X]

I think a lot of users here are confused because they think "estrogen is bad and we must kill it all." That's not what you should try to do. What steroid users want is to slightly reduce estrogen as to prevent bloat and hypertension, which can be done with arimidex easily. Remember, you NEED estrogen in your body to stay healthy.

 

[flyingjer]

alright, thats the answer i was looking for, i knew ya could help me mr. X

 

[Maetenloch]

I think a lot of users here are confused because they think "estrogen is bad and we must kill it all." That's not what you should try to do. What steroid users want is to slightly reduce estrogen as to prevent bloat and hypertension, which can be done with arimidex easily. Remember, you NEED estrogen in your body to stay healthy.

True. In general you want to keep estrogen within the normal range even when on cycle. If you think high E levels are annoying, read some of the posts in forums for hypogonadal men. Low E can absolutely ruin your sex life and make you feel like crap, plus it's unhealthy in general and will limit any muscle gains.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Technically (on paper), aromasin is superior, but personal experience has shown letrozole (femara) to be much stronger.

this is incorrect. On paper and in all clinicals letrozole is considerably more potent at aromatase inhibition than other AI's.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

Suicidal AI = suicidal aromatase inhibitor , it's supposed to preven most/all testosterone from aromatizing (turning into estrogen). SAI's are not highly recommended by me because males still need estrogen in their body to stay healthy and functional.

this is also not exactly correct. Suicidal inhibitors bind to the aromatase complex, essentially "taking it out"- an irreversible binding. Competitive inhibitors bind to a different site and inactivate the complex, though this is reversible. Hence why there is the potential for oestrogen rebound with competitive inhibitors.

Suicidal inhibitors are "weaker" because they have lower affinity. There are also tissue specificity, permeability and penetrance issues.

Letrozole is by far the strongest inhibitor of aromatase, both in men and women. It is often too suppressive even at less than treatment doses.

 

[Mr.X]

this is also not exactly correct. Suicidal inhibitors bind to the aromatase complex, essentially "taking it out"- an irreversible binding. Competitive inhibitors bind to a different site and inactivate the complex, though this is reversible. Hence why there is the potential for oestrogen rebound with competitive inhibitors.

yeah that's what I said here
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5914840&postcount=9

Aromasin is a type I AI (suicidal AI) - it binds aromatase irreversibly.

There is no need to overcomplicate everything.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

True. In general you want to keep estrogen within the normal range even when on cycle. If you think high E levels are annoying, read some of the posts in forums for hypogonadal men. Low E can absolutely ruin your sex life and make you feel like crap, plus it's unhealthy in general and will limit any muscle gains.

fairly accurate. Though how much E is pretty individual. Also what must be taken into account is the types of oestrogens (there are three natural ones). This is the issue with letro, it wipes out all three. Something that is difficult to achieve even with higher doses of other AI's.

 

[Pro80]

I agree with X. Arimidex is the best AI for me. I use 2 mgs/day while dieting. It eliminates all the water and I don't have any sides.

You dont have cholesterol problems with Ari?

 

[macrophage69alpha]

You dont have cholesterol problems with Ari?

he likely meant apparent sides. though most AI's except letro will have minimal impact when used without AAS. Most of the impact on cholesterol is from the AAS. Now the suppression of oestrogen in the face of AAS "onslaught" may cause further cholesterol problems. (while it may seem like semantics, the implications are important)

 

[steelmass]

Exemestane is an irreversible, steroidal aromatase inactivator, structurally related to the naturalsubstrate androstenedione. It acts as a false substrate for the aromatase enzyme, and is processedto an intermediate that binds irreversibly to the active site of the enzyme causing its inactivation,an effect also known as “suicide inhibition.” Exemestane significantly lowers circulatingestrogen concentrations in postmenopausal women, but has no detectable effect on adrenalbiosynthesis of corticosteroids or aldosterone. Exemestane has no effect on other enzymesinvolved in the steroidogenic pathway up to a concentration at least 600 times higher than thatinhibiting the aromatase enzyme

 

[macrophage69alpha]

 

[Mr.X]

You dont have cholesterol problems with Ari?

There are some problems, but nothing that you're not already doing to yourself with steroids.