What are the new DNP rules? Andy, Macro...

[DaMan]

K all, my workouts and diet have been sucking and it won't get better this week (work schedule), so I thought fuckit, I may as well make the best of it and hit some crystal...

I'm prolly gonna hit 400mg/ED crystal caps (our fallen friend's stuff)...

I also have a 35-day T3 taper (upto 100mcg) planned next week, so I'll prolly be on the DNP for 5 days or so.

This IS my 5th cycle, so I know the game... anything new I should be aware of? Andy, I took note of your fructose/"carbs ain't THAT important" findings and will limit my carbs to pepsi and fruit to avoid the insulin spike...

Other than that it's still 50%c/35%p/15%f, weightx12kcals, VERY LITTLE gymtime if at all... what else?

 

[DaMan]

BTW, I'm on-cycle right now. I don't wanna hear anything about wasting my gear cuz my workouts and diet have been so bad this week (I have a new job and have to work my ass off this week) that I've practically been wasting my gear anyway. It will get better as of next Monday, so I want to ride the anabolic rebound into my T3 cycle.

 

[Andy13]

Looks good..

You might even try eating 10X bodyweight in cals-- it just depends on how much fat you want to lose. I used to think that gear was useless while on DNP, but now I feel it can be very useful, especially when eating ultra low cals.

I love Pepsi Don't guzzle it down though, or else you WILL feel the heat.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

It's actually prefered to NOT workout (at least for the first couple of days) while on DNP.

Working out will cause pre-mature emptying of your glycogen stores.. It's important to hold on to your glycogen for as long as possible while on DNP. Empty glycogen stores are indicative of a general catabolic state. Once it is gone, it's GONE while on DNP (DNP inhibits glycogen synthesis).


Also, the 'feel like shit' effect that DNP causes is largely due to empty glycogen stores.

Andy

 

[Fonz]

It's actually prefered to NOT workout (at least for the first couple of days) while on DNP.

Working out will cause pre-mature emptying of your glycogen stores.. It's important to hold on to your glycogen for as long as possible while on DNP. Empty glycogen stores are indicative of a general catabolic state. Once it is gone, it's GONE while on DNP (DNP inhibits glycogen synthesis).


Also, the 'feel like shit' effect that DNP causes is largely due to empty glycogen stores.

Andy

Hmmmmmmmmmm................<Fonz raises an eyebrow>

Fonz

 

[DaMan]

Looks good..

I used to think that gear was useless while on DNP, but now I feel it can be very useful, especially when eating ultra low cals.

That's the best thing I've heard all day. I just don't eat much, period, ESPECIALLY on DNP... from this I infer it's ok to go superlowcals... NICE!!!

Riding that anabolic rebound right into the T3

PS - *LOVE* Pepsi too. We should start a club or something... chose my college based on the fact that it was a Pepsi school and not a coke one (Go Trojans!)

 

[DaMan]

Hmmmmmmmmmm................<Fonz raises an eyebrow>

Fonz

Porque?

 

[SwitchedOn]

Working out will cause pre-mature emptying of your glycogen stores.. It's important to hold on to your glycogen for as long as possible while on DNP.

I'm curious Andy how long will this catabolic state last, as long as glycogen stores are low? I'm beginning to think that a 5-7 day low carb period then a 36 hour supercompensation while starting DNP around 6 hours before the end of your carb up period might be the way to go. I love to hear both Andy and Fonz's DNP theories and I'm getting ready to do a huge DNP cycle so let's keep this thread going.
BTW my cycle will be:
Day 1: 800mg
Day 2: 800mg
Day 3: 600mg
Day 4: 600mg
Days 5-50: 400mg

I'm doing a 50 day cycle with a front load. It will be my 6th cycle and I really want to see how the DNP will work from weeks 4-7 since noone really wants to go that long at that high of a dose. My diet will be (hopefully, if I can stick to it) 40/40/20. I want to go higher with the carbs and probably will because around day 10 its just so motherfuckin hard to see assholes munching on Grandma's peanut butter cookies right in front of your face who don't know you're on the shit. I know you're somewhat anti-long DNP cycles Andy and I know the reasons why but waiting 10 days between weeklong cycles is difficult
Well we'll see what happens and I'll keep people updated from starting around the second day (that's usually when I start feeling it). I'll try to post an update every 3-4 days with weight, bf, pretty much everything. BTW I was interested in anyone's thoughts on creatine while on DNP. I've read your posts Andy on pretty much not being able to grow while on but what might be the impact of using creatine while on DNP?

 

[Andy13]

I'm curious Andy how long will this catabolic state last, as long as glycogen stores are low? I'm beginning to think that a 5-7 day low carb period then a 36 hour supercompensation while starting DNP around 6 hours before the end of your carb up period might be the way to go.

The catabolic state lasts as long as you are on DNP.. Eating moderate amounts of fructose and protein can overcome this somewhat but it ultimatly results in increased cortisol levels. Cortisol up-regluated protein metabolizing enzymes. This is why I feel gear is beneficial while on DNP.. Especially long cycle like this.

 

[Andy13]

Hmmmmmmmmmm................<Fonz raises an eyebrow>

Fonz

Oh, spit it fonz.. or will we have to wait until june?

 

[alexiarenee]

I just wanted to add a little about the cycle I just finished. Started last Sunday, took last dose yesterday (mon.)
I actually didnt feel anything but just a little extra sweating during my workouts. Yes, I heard NOT to workout, but since I figured I was going to be in hell this past week, I took off a week from my job! And since I was bored as hell at home- I went to the gym- 7 days out of my 9 day cycle.
I did about 30 min of cardio everytime ( I usually do 45 ) , it was also a little less intense...I still sweated twice as much as usual..
I also managed 5 weight sessions...really light though.....
I didnt really feel like shit until I upped my dose to 400mg, on Saturday, my 7th day......I went out to a club, and I was miserable. I went home, and woke up the next morning in sweat!! First time. Took 400mg again Sunday, no workout, and Monday I took 3 and workout out....
Anyway, when I started I was at 117!!!
Sat I weighed my self and I was 112 on the same scale.
I could tell almost within days I was getting leaner.....my muscles dont look at all smaller.
Now (Tues) I look really good, and I will go weigh myself at the gym here in a min.
I also took in about 1200-1300 cals daily......I think the low cals and cardio actually helped me lose more weight...I am actually surprised how much leaner I am................

 

[jstrong20]

The catabolic state lasts as long as you are on DNP.. Eating moderate amounts of fructose and protein can overcome this somewhat but it ultimatly results in increased cortisol levels. Cortisol up-regluated protein metabolizing enzymes. This is why I feel gear is beneficial while on DNP.. Especially long cycle like this. [/B]

This pretty interesting. I thought dnp prevented muscle catabolism post cycle and I'm about to start a small dnp cycle at 200mgs ed for 21 days. I was using it to prevent muscle loss so would you say this is not a good idea?

 

[Andy13]

This pretty interesting. I thought dnp prevented muscle catabolism post cycle and I'm about to start a small dnp cycle at 200mgs ed for 21 days. I was using it to prevent muscle loss so would you say this is not a good idea?

(grudgingly biting tounge and telling myself to be nice)

I don't agree with "post cycle DNP to prevent muscle loss"-- At all.

The theory (I use that word losely) behind it is that "DNP lowers supposed hyperthyroid levels that supposedly occur post AAS cycle."

AAS MIGHT lower thyroid levels a bit on a cycle but I have never read (from a credible source) that thyroid levels are abnormally high after a cycle.

I have asked repeatedly for a reference that indicates that thyroid levels rise above normal after a cycle but nobody has been able to provide me with such. As far as I'm concerned, until I see a credible reference, this 'theory' isn't worth a damn.

"anti-proteolytic DNP" is an oxymoron. DNP doesn't oxidize nutrients itself, it just makes a hole in the bottom of our ATP bucket. Your body will metabolize protein just as it would on that level of energy expenditure- DNP or no DNP.

Andy

 

[Andy13]

Hmmmmmmmmmm................<Fonz raises an eyebrow>

Fonz

"If you think a 21 gauge will hurt, try an implant gun!"

 

[DrJMW]

My Thoughts on DNP

For week 1, I suggest going low carb, no DNP, mixed strength/aerobic style workout.
For week 2, 600mg DNP daily, split dose AM and late afternoon, Isocaloric (carb up), and mainly aerobic style exercise (fewer sets, more reps, big muscle group exercises only)
Week 3--same as week 1
Week 4--same as week 2.

Continue until you are satisfied with fat loss. My $0.02

 

[DaMan]

Re: My Thoughts on DNP

For week 1, I suggest going low carb, no DNP, mixed strength/aerobic style workout.
For week 2, 600mg DNP daily, split dose AM and late afternoon, Isocaloric (carb up), and mainly aerobic style exercise (fewer sets, more reps, big muscle group exercises only)
Week 3--same as week 1
Week 4--same as week 2.

Continue until you are satisfied with fat loss. My $0.02

Sounds more or less what I'm doing except I'm only doing one week... hey, I thought you were against DNP?

Something else - does crystal dnp degrade over time? I'm taking caps I ordered last summer (July or so) and while I was vomiting like crazy last time, I barely broke a sweat so far... I know I have the routine down a lot better, but THAT much better?

Thx.

 

[SwitchedOn]

I don't advocate low carb diets prior to starting a DNP cycle as this lowers T3 levels which is what you don't want when starting DNP. I've tried it both ways and felt much better without carb depleting and lost just as much fat. Why would you want to start carbing up when starting the DNP JMW?

 

[DrJMW]

Before he died, Dan Duchaine and I exchanged ideas on DNP. The above cycle was basically his idea..I have studied it and it seems to work. BTW, I am not against DNP except for the fact that is currently illegal to consume. Second, I have access to large, inexpensive quantities, but no where to ship it (because it is a HAZMAT) or to cap it. There is no doubt that DNP is probably the best fat burner around. As far as carbing up during DNP, it is the carbs that "fuel the fire." Duchaine suggested that depletion followed by supercompensation would maximize the effect of DNP and actually allow you to perform exercise.