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watched a documentry on the native american haolocaust...
- Thread starter BO-DEN
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Deus Ex Machina
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Yep, pretty bad things we did to the Native Americans -- broken treaties, disease, reserve camps, etc.
But, you have to steal, kill, and destroy power in order to obtain it from someone else. No one gives away power.
Survival of the fittest I guess.
But, you have to steal, kill, and destroy power in order to obtain it from someone else. No one gives away power.
Survival of the fittest I guess.
Robert Jan
New member
"So... They slaughtered a people, and then they made little plastic action figures out of them? The Germans never had the nerve to try that, did they? "
Deus Ex Machina
New member
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Last edited:
Deus Ex Machina
New member
BO-DEN said:
Back then, land was power.
BO-DEN
New member
Deus Ex Machina said:
i disagree people are power.
always have been.
my army is bigger then yours soo get used to speaking my language from now on.
this is how it always has been
thies people were exterminated in the name of a new "FREE" country were every man can keep his custom
yea right!
Bo-DEN
Deus Ex Machina
New member
BO-DEN said:
I think your army is somewhere along the lines of Testosterone Boy.
Land equated to power back then. I'm sure most people will agree with me on that statement.
No one gives up power, it's usually always taken away. That's what happened to the Native Americans.
The White man wanted to promote his culture, race, and lifestyle, but did not have the resources to do it because the Native Americans had all the resources to begin with.
It's not that hard when you think about why they were conquered...
And this Country is free. It's not perfect, but it's certainly better than any other 3rd world shithole.
Deus Ex Machina
New member
BO-DEN said:
That's the same amount of people Stalin eliminated, and this was during a more 'civilized' and developed time in world history. I've never actually seen you complain or discuss Stalin's regime.
BO-DEN said:
i spose holocaust only conjers up one thought on hitler but i'm not naive enough to limit the word to hitler and the jews. throughout history there have been countless acts of genocide on this planet. empires and nations, including our own, are built on genocide.
BO-DEN
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Deus Ex Machina said:
see this is all i hear from people
but in my opinion just cause we have it better then others dont mean this is where it should end.
the world is a mess and our goverment continues to murder its citizens.
most people have this idea before they end up like...
-ruby ridge
-wako
i dont like working for the goverment that is suppose to work for me.
BO-DEN
Deus Ex Machina
New member
BO-DEN said:
Like I said earlier, we're not perfect. Perfection in human society is unachievable and unattainable. It's in the firmament, but that's where it's going to stay. Humans make mistakes, humans are driven by personal needs first, then others' needs second. We're corruptable, complex, and we like to fight.
Ruby Ridge and Waco were debacles in a sense of bad leadership of policy. It's not like the government just walked in one day and killed everyone. Citizens were breaking law in Ruby Ridge and Waco, which prompted investigations -- it just got out of hand.
Since Ruby Ridge and Waco, I have not seen any major government fuckups in the USA against her citizens. Have you?
atlantabiolab
New member
BO-DEN said:
No, past administrations did this...you cannot perform apologetics for Russia and Germany by blaming the men only and then turn around and level all the blame of the Indian massacres on "America" of today.
Countries and governments are made of men, each of whom have the power to do right or wrong. When wrongful actions are done, you must lay the blame on the agents of cause; the men who did such actions.
But I thought you liked the idea of "law of the jungle"? Those past administrations should be your heroes; they eliminated the weak.
Deus Ex Machina
New member
"CREATING the BEST!!
ill eat all my enemys"
hmmm
ill eat all my enemys"
hmmm
BO-DEN
New member
atlantabiolab said:But I thought you liked the idea of "law of the jungle"? Those past administrations should be your heroes; they eliminated the weak.
dude stop responding to my posts if you dont understand them..... you obviously have no clue of what the "law of the jungal" acually is.
in the "jungal" i speak about. there isn't a goverment (mafia) killing who ever dosnt agree with it.
the jungal im talking about could never exsist with a central athourity structure like the one in place.
lets not have this disscusion again....
and have to quote your modern thinking bullshit AGAIN.....
and it only results in us not changing our mind but just finnally getting tierd of trying to prove the others ignorance...AGIAN
your trying to beat the old dead horse again
i dont know if many of you know the real thanksgiving..im a mixed jew/cher and thanksgiving was actually made to celebrate the massacre of the native americans...the people that came to the us did some foul shit to the native americans,,,,,heres something to read
Thanksgiving Day Celebrates A Massacre
Research compiled, October 19, 1990
by Johyn Westcott and Paul Apidaca
Copyright © 1990 Westcott/Apidaca
All Rights Reserved
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William B. Newell, a Penobscot Indian and former chairman of the Anthropology department at the University of Connecticut, says that the first official Thanksgiving Day celebrated the massacre of 700 Indian men, women and children during one of their religious ceremonies. "Thanksgiving Day" was first proclaimed by the Governor of the then Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1637 to commemorate the massacre of 700 men, women and children who were celebrating their annual Green Corn Dance...Thanksgiving Day to the, "in their own house", Newell stated.
"Gathered in this place of meeting, they were attacked by mercenaries and English and Dutch. The Indians were ordered from the building and as they came forth were shot down, The rest were burned alive in the building-----The very next day the governor declared a Thanksgiving Day.....For the next 100 years, every Thanksgiving Day ordained by a Governor was in honor of the bloody victory, thinking God that the battle had been won."
In June 1637 John Underhill slaughtered a pequot village in just the manner described above. Narranganset Indians were used as the mercenaries. Governor John Endicott of the Massachusetts Bay Colony proclaimed the pequot war. A pequot chief of sachem named sassacus warred against the Dutch in 1633 over the death of his father. The pequot made no distinction between the Dutch and the English. The Underhill massacre was witnessed and documented by William Branford and an engraving was made illustration the massacre.
The Jamestown Colony may be the source for the tradition of Indians under the leadership of Powhaton joining with early settlers for a dinner and helping those settlers through the winter. There were no pilgrims of puritans at Jamestown, however. The present Thanksgiving may therefore be a mixture of the tradition of the Jamestown dinner and the commemoration of the Pequot massacre.
The celebration of Thanksgiving as an official holiday possibly roots in the Pequot massacre, while the imagery is of Jamestown with pilgrims, images misused.
Thanksgiving Day Celebrates A Massacre
Research compiled, October 19, 1990
by Johyn Westcott and Paul Apidaca
Copyright © 1990 Westcott/Apidaca
All Rights Reserved
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William B. Newell, a Penobscot Indian and former chairman of the Anthropology department at the University of Connecticut, says that the first official Thanksgiving Day celebrated the massacre of 700 Indian men, women and children during one of their religious ceremonies. "Thanksgiving Day" was first proclaimed by the Governor of the then Massachusetts Bay Colony in 1637 to commemorate the massacre of 700 men, women and children who were celebrating their annual Green Corn Dance...Thanksgiving Day to the, "in their own house", Newell stated.
"Gathered in this place of meeting, they were attacked by mercenaries and English and Dutch. The Indians were ordered from the building and as they came forth were shot down, The rest were burned alive in the building-----The very next day the governor declared a Thanksgiving Day.....For the next 100 years, every Thanksgiving Day ordained by a Governor was in honor of the bloody victory, thinking God that the battle had been won."
In June 1637 John Underhill slaughtered a pequot village in just the manner described above. Narranganset Indians were used as the mercenaries. Governor John Endicott of the Massachusetts Bay Colony proclaimed the pequot war. A pequot chief of sachem named sassacus warred against the Dutch in 1633 over the death of his father. The pequot made no distinction between the Dutch and the English. The Underhill massacre was witnessed and documented by William Branford and an engraving was made illustration the massacre.
The Jamestown Colony may be the source for the tradition of Indians under the leadership of Powhaton joining with early settlers for a dinner and helping those settlers through the winter. There were no pilgrims of puritans at Jamestown, however. The present Thanksgiving may therefore be a mixture of the tradition of the Jamestown dinner and the commemoration of the Pequot massacre.
The celebration of Thanksgiving as an official holiday possibly roots in the Pequot massacre, while the imagery is of Jamestown with pilgrims, images misused.
Is All That Turkey and Stuffing a Celebration of Genocide?
By Laura Elliff, Vice President, Native American Student Association
Thanksgiving is a holiday where families gather to share stories, football games are watched on television and a big feast is served. It is also the time of the month when people talk about Native Americans. But does one ever wonder why we celebrate this national holiday? Why does everyone give thanks?
History is never simple. The standard history of Thanksgiving tells us that the "Pilgrims and Indians" feasted for three days, right? Most Americans believe that there was some magnificent bountiful harvest. In the Thanksgiving story, are the "Indians" even acknowledged by a tribe? No, because everyone assumes "Indians" are the same. So, who were these Indians in 1621?
In 1620, Pilgrims arrived on the Mayflower naming the land Plymouth Rock. One fact that is always hidden is that the village was already named Patuxet and the Wampanoag Indians lived there for thousands of years. To many Americans, Plymouth Rock is a symbol. Sad but true many people assume, "It is the rock on which our nation began." In 1621, Pilgrims did have a feast but it was not repeated years thereafter. So, it wasn't the beginning of a Thanksgiving tradition nor did Pilgrims call it a Thanksgiving feast. Pilgrims perceived Indians in relation to the Devil and the only reason why they were invited to that feast was for the purpose of negotiating a treaty that would secure the lands for the Pilgrims. The reason why we have so many myths about Thanksgiving is that it is an invented tradition. It is based more on fiction than fact.
So, what truth ought to be taught? In 1637, the official Thanksgiving holiday we know today came into existence. (Some people argue it formally came into existence during the Civil War, in 1863, when President Lincoln proclaimed it, which also was the same year he had 38 Sioux hung on Christmas Eve.) William Newell, a Penobscot Indian and former chair of the anthropology department of the University of Connecticut, claims that the first Thanksgiving was not "a festive gathering of Indians and Pilgrims, but rather a celebration of the massacre of 700 Pequot men, women and children." In 1637, the Pequot tribe of Connecticut gathered for the annual Green Corn Dance ceremony. Mercenaries of the English and Dutch attacked and surrounded the village; burning down everything and shooting whomever try to escape. The next day, Newell notes, the Governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots." Most Americans believe Thanksgiving was this wonderful dinner and harvest celebration. The truth is the "Thanksgiving dinner" was invented both to instill a false pride in Americans and to cover up the massacre.
Was Thanksgiving really a massacre of 700 "Indians"? The present Thanksgiving may be a mixture of the 1621 three-day feast and the "Thanksgiving" proclaimed after the 1637 Pequot massacre. So next time you see the annual "Pilgrim and Indian display" in a shopping window or history about other massacres of Native Americans, think of the hurt and disrespect Native Americans feel. Thanksgiving is observed as a day of sorrow rather than a celebration. This year at Thanksgiving dinner, ponder why you are giving thanks.
William Bradford, in his famous History of the Plymouth Plantation, celebrated the Pequot massacre:
"Those that scraped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so as they were quickly dispatchte, and very few escapted. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyer, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente there of, but the victory seemed a sweete sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to inclose their enemise in their hands, and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enimie."
The Pequot massacre came after the colonists, angry at the murder of an English trader suspected by the Pequots of kidnapping children, sought revenge. rather than fighting the dangerous Pequot warriors, John Mason and John Underhill led a group of colonists and Native allies to the Indian fort in Mystic, and killed the old men, women, and children who were there. Those who escaped were later hunted down. The Pequot tribe numbered 8,000 when the Pilgrims arrived, but disease had brought their numbers down to 1,500 by 1637. The Pequot "War" killed all but a handful of remaining members of the tribe.
Proud of their accomplishments, Underhill wrote a book (above) depicted the burning of the village, and even made an illustration (below) showing how they surrounded the village to kill all within it.
- John K. Wilson
By Laura Elliff, Vice President, Native American Student Association
Thanksgiving is a holiday where families gather to share stories, football games are watched on television and a big feast is served. It is also the time of the month when people talk about Native Americans. But does one ever wonder why we celebrate this national holiday? Why does everyone give thanks?
History is never simple. The standard history of Thanksgiving tells us that the "Pilgrims and Indians" feasted for three days, right? Most Americans believe that there was some magnificent bountiful harvest. In the Thanksgiving story, are the "Indians" even acknowledged by a tribe? No, because everyone assumes "Indians" are the same. So, who were these Indians in 1621?
In 1620, Pilgrims arrived on the Mayflower naming the land Plymouth Rock. One fact that is always hidden is that the village was already named Patuxet and the Wampanoag Indians lived there for thousands of years. To many Americans, Plymouth Rock is a symbol. Sad but true many people assume, "It is the rock on which our nation began." In 1621, Pilgrims did have a feast but it was not repeated years thereafter. So, it wasn't the beginning of a Thanksgiving tradition nor did Pilgrims call it a Thanksgiving feast. Pilgrims perceived Indians in relation to the Devil and the only reason why they were invited to that feast was for the purpose of negotiating a treaty that would secure the lands for the Pilgrims. The reason why we have so many myths about Thanksgiving is that it is an invented tradition. It is based more on fiction than fact.
So, what truth ought to be taught? In 1637, the official Thanksgiving holiday we know today came into existence. (Some people argue it formally came into existence during the Civil War, in 1863, when President Lincoln proclaimed it, which also was the same year he had 38 Sioux hung on Christmas Eve.) William Newell, a Penobscot Indian and former chair of the anthropology department of the University of Connecticut, claims that the first Thanksgiving was not "a festive gathering of Indians and Pilgrims, but rather a celebration of the massacre of 700 Pequot men, women and children." In 1637, the Pequot tribe of Connecticut gathered for the annual Green Corn Dance ceremony. Mercenaries of the English and Dutch attacked and surrounded the village; burning down everything and shooting whomever try to escape. The next day, Newell notes, the Governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony declared: "A day of Thanksgiving, thanking God that they had eliminated over 700 men, women and children." It was signed into law that, "This day forth shall be a day of celebration and thanksgiving for subduing the Pequots." Most Americans believe Thanksgiving was this wonderful dinner and harvest celebration. The truth is the "Thanksgiving dinner" was invented both to instill a false pride in Americans and to cover up the massacre.
Was Thanksgiving really a massacre of 700 "Indians"? The present Thanksgiving may be a mixture of the 1621 three-day feast and the "Thanksgiving" proclaimed after the 1637 Pequot massacre. So next time you see the annual "Pilgrim and Indian display" in a shopping window or history about other massacres of Native Americans, think of the hurt and disrespect Native Americans feel. Thanksgiving is observed as a day of sorrow rather than a celebration. This year at Thanksgiving dinner, ponder why you are giving thanks.
William Bradford, in his famous History of the Plymouth Plantation, celebrated the Pequot massacre:
"Those that scraped the fire were slaine with the sword; some hewed to peeces, others rune throw with their rapiers, so as they were quickly dispatchte, and very few escapted. It was conceived they thus destroyed about 400 at this time. It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fyer, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stincke and sente there of, but the victory seemed a sweete sacrifice, and they gave the prayers thereof to God, who had wrought so wonderfully for them, thus to inclose their enemise in their hands, and give them so speedy a victory over so proud and insulting an enimie."
The Pequot massacre came after the colonists, angry at the murder of an English trader suspected by the Pequots of kidnapping children, sought revenge. rather than fighting the dangerous Pequot warriors, John Mason and John Underhill led a group of colonists and Native allies to the Indian fort in Mystic, and killed the old men, women, and children who were there. Those who escaped were later hunted down. The Pequot tribe numbered 8,000 when the Pilgrims arrived, but disease had brought their numbers down to 1,500 by 1637. The Pequot "War" killed all but a handful of remaining members of the tribe.
Proud of their accomplishments, Underhill wrote a book (above) depicted the burning of the village, and even made an illustration (below) showing how they surrounded the village to kill all within it.
- John K. Wilson
strongsmartsexy
New member
BO-DEN said:
Hey! It was the will of the "Moral Majority!"
strongsmartsexy
New member
BO-DEN said:
Ah, but just think it's another one of those "Conservative Absolutes!"
strongsmartsexy
New member
BO-DEN said:
That whole "conservative absolute" is particularily annoying to me, so I take great joy in poking large holes in it at every opportunity.DEATH, the only absolute.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Ok lets get this straight........they aren't jewish so it doesnt matter. Got that?
Ok so I'm far from serious but it seems to me thats what is happening. Some people apparently do not count.
Ok so I'm far from serious but it seems to me thats what is happening. Some people apparently do not count.
The Ranger
New member
Though I am part Cree(My Grandfather was 100% Woodland Cree), read the events surrounding the "Trail of Tears" and how we and the American Goverment treated the Cheeroke(sp) when Gold was discovered on their land...I truly love history and the history of the Native American is among my favorite sections....They were truly a honorable and wonderful people....So sad.
Ranger
Ranger
Razorguns
Well-known member
Exactly. Hitler was okay in killing jews -- because you have to KILL little babies if you want POWER.
If Al Qaeda gets access to nuke bombs and decides to blow up cities -- we should all just roll over and die and go "Hey, they want power and it's survival of the fittest".
I don't know why people bitch about 9/11. It's how it works if you want to take over a land and make your point.
Who comes up with these stupid logics? Oh yeah, really dumb white guys.
And now they bitch that mexicans are taking over *their* land. Karma's a bitch baby.
If Al Qaeda gets access to nuke bombs and decides to blow up cities -- we should all just roll over and die and go "Hey, they want power and it's survival of the fittest".
I don't know why people bitch about 9/11. It's how it works if you want to take over a land and make your point.
Who comes up with these stupid logics? Oh yeah, really dumb white guys.
And now they bitch that mexicans are taking over *their* land. Karma's a bitch baby.
strongsmartsexy
New member
Razorguns said:
Lordy I was right there with you until you played the race card. How truely sad.
strongsmartsexy said:
DEATH, the only absolute.
If death is an absolute, then by definition, so is life. Imagine what that means,
gotmilk
New member
HAYEZ said:
The Pequot rebounded to build and own Foxwoods, the Narragansett are teaming up with Harrah's to build a $500 Million casino, and the Penobscot are teaming up with the Passamaquoddy and Micmac to build a $600 Million gaming resort. They may actually have the last laugh
Moderate_THIS
New member
Deus Ex Machina said:
9/11/2001 maybe?
Deus Ex Machina
New member
chaos mage said:
I guess, if you want to believe that our goverment attacked its citizens, then OK.
Moderate_THIS
New member
Deus Ex Machina said:
Well it is a Bo-den thread.. anything goes. But I think of it more as negligent homicide.
The Ranger
New member
The downfall of the Native American was the railroad...Progress moved much faster from that point on...And to feed the workers...Buffalo, once that animals numbers began to decline, they were forced to fight for their country...But, the discovery of Gold on indian land(The Cheeroke and Souix) brought the Army and much more men, the Native Americans had far to many fronts to cover from then on out....
If you take the time to read about their way of life, they were truly an honorable and spritual people who only wanted their way of life preserved....
Ranger
If you take the time to read about their way of life, they were truly an honorable and spritual people who only wanted their way of life preserved....
Ranger
The Ranger said:
I spent quite a bit of time with an old friend who is a Lakota Medicine Man who moved to Arizona to help out some troubled kids at both the Apache and Navaho Nations. It is a wealth of sadness to see what has become of a people that loved the land and its offspring so much they worshiped them as gods.
The Ranger
New member
ChefWide said:
It is indeed...I just finished the novel...The Lance and the Sheild(The life and times of Sitting Bull) by Robert M. Utley(A regular on the history channel)....Excellent read.
Ranger
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