US medical system

[Maverick]

Is it true that if you dont have insurance you cannot just walk into a hospital if something is wrong with you ?

Damn, In Canada we should be thankful that we can just walk into any hospital and get healthcare !!!

what is the percentage of people that do not have insurance in the states ?

how much is an average visit to the hospital if you had to go ?

thanks for the info

 

[gjohnson5]

You're gonna need an operational medical system if you ever dream about whoopin' my ass!

 

[Matthew_31]

They will only accept you in emergencies in the states if you dont have insurance. Most hospitals budget for those circumstances.

Considering US taxes, it is amazing that they cant afford public health care. I guess they have to pay to hunt down dogs in Baghdad though lol.

Matt

 

[mrplunkey]

They can't turn you down if it's an emergency. Basically everyone pays for it in the form of increased healthcare costs.

When you say "can't afford public healthcare" you said a mouthful. Part of what works against us is our insanely high-end care for the insured. Proposing a two-tier system where anyone off the street doesn't get an instant MRI and a team of consulting physicians surrounding them brings-out public outcry. So "public" healthcare translates into "across the board ultra-high end healthcare".

Then the other issue is Americans ourselves. We're in the best shape -- and the worst shape. We're the most active -- and the most lazy. We have the best diets -- and the worst. We celebrate the extremes, so another problem is that we have to pay for the defiant, 450-lb diabetic who brags about how many cigarettes and pringles he can go through in a day.

 

[Gambino]

nordstrom in 3, 2,1

 

[PWTurbofan]

I think the other problem here is the insane amount of insurance coverage docs need to have to protect against med malpractice suits. Everybody sues everybody here. Look at the posting someone just left on C&C about the kids who electrocuted themselves while TRESPASSING and still managed to walk away with MILLIONS in punitive damages.

So we end up paying the brunt of this in higher medical costs. My latest round of bloodwork and a checkup from an endo was nearly 1300. 1300 fucking dollars for a 20-minute office visit, and bloodwork that's analyzed by computers. It's bullshit.

 

[jenscats5]

I'm so glad I have insurance......my outpatient knee operation was $12,000+ and I didn't even spend 12 hours in the hospital......they wanted to keep me longer too....

 

[mrplunkey]

I think the other problem here is the insane amount of insurance coverage docs need to have to protect against med malpractice suits. Everybody sues everybody here. Look at the posting someone just left on C&C about the kids who electrocuted themselves while TRESPASSING and still managed to walk away with MILLIONS in punitive damages.

So we end up paying the brunt of this in higher medical costs. My latest round of bloodwork and a checkup from an endo was nearly 1300. 1300 fucking dollars for a 20-minute office visit, and bloodwork that's analyzed by computers. It's bullshit.

That's another huge issue. We've needed tort reform for over 100 years.

 

[mrplunkey]

And to pile-on yet another issue... Americans are one of the most extreme break-and-fix cultures in the world. We just don't do prevention well at all -- not just in healthcare. It would take at least one, if not two full generations of indoctrination in schools to teach kids about the causal nature of health maintenance and long-term well being.

I'd love to see us start that kind of education, but realize that the marlboro-packing tobacco grower in rural North Carolina is going to show-up at school and ask "why the fuck are you telling MY child how to live????!!!!".

 

[reaper99]

Was in Er 2 days ago 500 beans just to go to the emergency room. ultrasound and some motrin what you think that cost. I can't wait for the bill.

 

[jenscats5]

And to pile-on yet another issue... Americans are one of the most extreme break-and-fix cultures in the world. We just don't do prevention well at all -- not just in healthcare. It would take at least one, if not two full generations of indoctrination in schools to teach kids about the causal nature of health maintenance and long-term well being.

I'd love to see us start that kind of education, but realize that the marlboro-packing tobacco grower in rural North Carolina is going to show-up at school and ask "why the fuck are you telling MY child how to live????!!!!".

That's why that will never happen......also it's bad for "big bidness" to practice prevention such as healthy living & exercise - the big tobacco co's and Kraft will go out of bidness.....

 

[fistfullofsteel]

my dad just had an mri recently and that alone cost a cool $1,000. you could buy two pairs of prada shoes or two pairs of nice italian shoes with that $1,000.

 

[Razorguns]

Is it true that if you dont have insurance you cannot just walk into a hospital if something is wrong with you ?

Damn, In Canada we should be thankful that we can just walk into any hospital and get healthcare !!!

what is the percentage of people that do not have insurance in the states ?

how much is an average visit to the hospital if you had to go ?

thanks for the info

ask any mexican. they have no problems getting er care, cancer treatment, kidney transplants, you name it.

r

 

[Huckster]

ask any mexican. they have no problems getting er care, cancer treatment, kidney transplants, you name it.

r

exactly.

 

[gotmilk]

larger cities have public hospitals for this reason. Private hospitals can refuse care but have to treat if it looks like you are going to die. They can treat you and ship you off to another hospital.

Here in Maine, we have Dirigo Health for the uninsured. It's a pooling of profits to cover the expenses by the uninsured.

 

[rykertest]

I wish there was an insurance company that would offer health care only to those that fit a certain height/weight average, don't smoke, don't drink, excercise, etc ;and offer those people very affordable healthcare because they at least try to be healthy. But, some fat lard butt would sue for discrimination I'm sure.

 

[mrplunkey]

That's why that will never happen......also it's bad for "big bidness" to practice prevention such as healthy living & exercise - the big tobacco co's and Kraft will go out of bidness.....

I've thought about this one before. Wouldn't you guess that food companies would shift to "fat free" or "low carb" products and just keep going? I'd think those big businesses would make money either way -- and perhaps more because presumably the healthy stuff would sell for a premium.

Now true vice companies like cigarettes and beer would be hurting for sure.

 

[jenscats5]

I've thought about this one before. Wouldn't you guess that food companies would shift to "fat free" or "low carb" products and just keep going? I'd think those big businesses would make money either way -- and perhaps more because presumably the healthy stuff would sell for a premium.

Now true vice companies like cigarettes and beer would be hurting for sure.

You would think so - but the desire to be healthy just isn't there in the US.....for example the Atkins brand has been pulled off a lot of shelves cuz it just wasn't selling......

 

[PWTurbofan]

You would think so - but the desire to be healthy just isn't there in the US

EXACTLY. Instead, Americans would rather gorge themselves on McD's and KFC and then sue the companies for their health woes. Because fried shit would still be so much healthier minus the trans fats.

We had a couple chicks from our Dublin office in our office this week, and I took them to lunch. They were amazed at the portion sizes handed to them at lunch. Lucky for them, I was around to eat their leftovers

Then again, it's more than just diet...it's lack of activity. I was eating at this restaurant downtown and sat next to this smokin' Italian (like no speaky English ital) chick. She housed down a course of pasta followed by a tuna steak as a second course, and was skinny as a rail. You can be she works her ass off to stay in shape. When I was growin up, I was always outside playin and doin sports; kids today would rather be stuck in front of a computer or the boob tube.

 

[Razorguns]

ask any homeless guy who uses us hospitals as hotels to stay for te night and get a free meal - all at your expense.

 

[mrplunkey]

You would think so - but the desire to be healthy just isn't there in the US.....for example the Atkins brand has been pulled off a lot of shelves cuz it just wasn't selling......

Oh I definately also agree that the desire to be healthy just isn't there. It's part of our only-fix-what's-broken culture. If you don't have chest pain and can still down those 8 twinkies per day, why stop?

Yet again another reason why we can't open the floodgates of free, premium healthcare to everyone.

 

[Matthew_31]

Very few countries with public healthcare provide all-inclusive free services. However the lack of basic healthcare insurance for many Americans leads to a culture of not visiting the doctor and spiralling costs when things go badly. American life expectancies within certain at risk socioeconomic groups are atrocious. There are many developing nations that overall are doing better.

It does not need to be an all or nothing proposition.

Matt

 

[mrplunkey]

Very few countries with public healthcare provide all-inclusive free services. However the lack of basic healthcare insurance for many Americans leads to a culture of not visiting the doctor and spiralling costs when things go badly. American life expectancies within certain at risk socioeconomic groups are atrocious. There are many developing nations that overall are doing better.

It does not need to be an all or nothing proposition.

Matt

Just mentioning "two tier" here immediately produces public outcry. We've taken the notion that all men are equal under the law and somehow decided we're supposed to be all equal under healthcare as well.

And you are correct that many Americans don't visit the doctor until something goes terribly wrong -- but the vast majority of the proactive ones are also the ones agressively seeking employment that includes a basic health plan.

And again, you are correct that in some segments American life expectancies are atrocious. The problem is that sitting people from these segments down and saying "dude, you're killing yourself" often leads to "This is America god damn it. I'll smoke, drink and eat pringles if I want to."

The answer would be subsidizing personal responsibility toward beneficial health practices but that will never happen IMO.

 

[Lao Tzu]

nordstrom in 3, 2,1

0.

Roughly 1/6th of americans do not have health insurance. Another 1/6 have substandard insurance (high deductible, poor coverage, etc). The other 2/3 are doing pretty well.

You can get emergency care in the US w/o insurance, but chronic care is harder to find. Cost varies alot based on whether you have insurance or not.

 

[Lao Tzu]

And to pile-on yet another issue... Americans are one of the most extreme break-and-fix cultures in the world. We just don't do prevention well at all -- not just in healthcare. It would take at least one, if not two full generations of indoctrination in schools to teach kids about the causal nature of health maintenance and long-term well being.

I'd love to see us start that kind of education, but realize that the marlboro-packing tobacco grower in rural North Carolina is going to show-up at school and ask "why the fuck are you telling MY child how to live????!!!!".

Schools don't teach much of what you really need to know in life. How to run your own mind, how to set goals, how to communicate efficienctly, how to delay gratification, how to be healthy, how to think critically, etc. I don't see them changing on most, but I wouldn't be suprised with the obesity problem if they start being more health conscious, even if it is just health related to obesity.

The thing is, there are endless things a person can do to cut their risk of disease, most are really esoteric too. Flossing your teeth for example cuts your risk of CVD & demetia drastically. Meditating and lowering stress cuts CVD by 40-50%. Something as simple as walking 30 minutes a day is a major boost to health in all areas.

We need more adult education more than child education. Sadly with the obesity epidemic taking up all the medical airtime most people assume fat = unhealthy & thin = healthy and leave it at that, as a result the endless other ways to get and stay healthy aren't getting any publicity. If everyone in the US ate slightly more fruit then diseases like demetia would drop by 70%. But you never hear about it in medical news, it is always obesity related.

 

[mrplunkey]

Schools don't teach much of what you really need to know in life. How to run your own mind, how to set goals, how to communicate efficienctly, how to delay gratification, how to be healthy, how to think critically, etc. I don't see them changing on most, but I wouldn't be suprised with the obesity problem if they start being more health conscious, even if it is just health related to obesity.

The thing is, there are endless things a person can do to cut their risk of disease, most are really esoteric too. Flossing your teeth for example cuts your risk of CVD & demetia drastically.

We need more adult education more than child education. Sadly with the obesity epidemic taking up all the medical airtime most people assume fat = unhealthy & thin = healthy and leave it at that, as a result the endless other ways to get and stay healthy aren't getting any publicity. If everyone in the US had better oral hygiene and ate slightly more fruit then diseases like demetia & CVD would drop by 70%. But you never hear about it in medical news, it is always obesity related.

But aesthetics is a powerful biologial and social motivation, and can drive a lot of other desirable behaviors along with it.

I had salmon tonight b/c I need to do a little work on the old six-pack (seriously). I passed on the beer with my dad too for the same reason. And now, as much as I'd like to see your responses to this thread, I'll have to read them later as I'm going to drive to the Rush (gym) and work-out.

And yeah, my motives are 75% aesthetics and 25% health, but if the goal drives good behaviors then you just gotta roll with it

 

[Lao Tzu]

But aesthetics is a powerful biologial and social motivation, and can drive a lot of other desirable behaviors along with it.

I had salmon tonight b/c I need to do a little work on the old six-pack (seriously). I passed on the beer with my dad too for the same reason. And now, as much as I'd like to see your responses to this thread, I'll have to read them later as I'm going to drive to the Rush (gym) and work-out.

And yeah, my motives are 75% aesthetics and 25% health, but if the goal drives good behaviors then you just gotta roll with it

A real fitness buff would cartwheel to the gym.

The level of healthy eating & exercise necessary to give aesthetic benefits is generally far higher than the level needed to improve health. Rather than just making mild improvements and looking the same but having better health alot of people are doing all or nothing. Plus there are many ways to improve aesthetics via diet & exercise, and many are not healthy. There needs to be more of an understanding of the difference between aesthetics & health but there isn't. Not only that, but people are oblivious to everything else they can do to improve their health other than acts that promote aesthetics.

 

[mrplunkey]

A real fitness buff would cartwheel to the gym.

The level of healthy eating & exercise necessary to give aesthetic benefits is generally far higher than the level needed to improve health. Rather than just making mild improvements and looking the same but having better health alot of people are doing all or nothing. Plus there are many ways to improve aesthetics via diet & exercise, and many are not healthy. There needs to be more of an understanding of the difference between aesthetics & health but there isn't. Not only that, but people are oblivious to everything else they can do to improve their health other than acts that promote aesthetics.

All true, but here's the problem. You and I could take a few months, do tons of legitimate research of peer-reviewed articles and formulate a comprehensive health and well-being plan. We could then pitch it to 1,000 kids in the 12-17 range. I'd guess about 100 of them would even be interested and if we're lucky about 2-3 of them would actually make changes based on our argument.

Or, we could just say "do this diet and you'll either look like Jessica Alba or Brad Pitt from fight club. You'll get all the dates, attention, sex... whatever you're looking for!" I'd bet we'd probably reach at least 400 of the 1,000 kids -- and at least 100 or so would act on it.

It's not a perfect solution, but sometimes you have to go with what delivers the numbers. It becomes a lot easier to do once you accept the fact that the vast, vast, vast majority of Americans are neither rational or logical.

P.S. Damn my abs are gonna need some work. I'll probably throw-in a mild dose of daily creatine too so I can work-out longer and more intensely.

 

[TC2]

ask any mexican. they have no problems getting er care, cancer treatment, kidney transplants, you name it.

r

you're right about that shit, I remember when I broke my hand and was at the emergency room.

I was standing in line to pay thinking thank jebus I have good insurance(actually free for me since I work for the state), I was behind this Mexican couple that had a newborn(obliviously she just gave birth) and when it came time for them to pay they're all like "no speak English,no deniero" while opening his wallet to show the woman that it was empty.

The woman didn't even bat an eye, she just swiveled in her chair grabbed a form and stamped it and off they went with the tax payers footing the bill again.