Unions F**king Suck

[VooDoo Lady]

Yep, and I mean it from the bottom of my heart. I'm the HR Manager at a unionized manufacturing facility. I came here with a totally open mind, no prejudice against unions or preconceived notions about what it would be like.

It took 8 months, but it happened. I officially fucking hate the union. I am an honest, caring, well-intention person that is TRULY an employee advocate and they have time and time again twisted my words, lied, connived, and attempted to fuck me over.

We are the only union facility in the company, so we can make a DIRECT comparison to union/non-union, and we have the WORST PE and safety numbers, and we have a 20% cost differential – YES 20%. We are consistently DEAD LAST in EVERY SINGLE METRIC folks, every single one.

The union is destroying this facility. I say that without flinching and without apology. We have lost our lease on our current facility and are currently looking for a new building. I can tell you that BECAUSE OF THE UNION, we will be relocating far enough away so that the current employees will not be able to/want to commute there. We have an older, very long-term work force that will be thrown out on the street without a job because of THE UNION.

It’s a sad, sad thing to watch. It tears me up inside to see what the union is doing to their membership, most of whom are just as embarrassed by the unions behavior as I am. Time after time grievances are submitted that are asking for settlements that are not in the best interest of the employees!!!!! I’ll say to the grievance chairman, “Do you understand how this is going to negatively impact the employees?” and he responds “Yes, and it doesn’t matter.” How am I supposed to deal with a person like that?

I don't understand, please, someone help me understand.

 

[havoc]

Understanding comes from a bowl of high grade marijuana, ignite the insight. peace

 

[WODIN]

They've become just as corrupt as the institutions they were setup to defend the average working joe against. That's the truth in a nut shell.

 

[VooDoo Lady]

They are breaking my spirit guys.

They've made me question every ability I have.......I'm going to either be a very bitter, angry person by the time we move, or I'm going to be quite a force to be reckoned with....I pray to God it's the latter of the 2.

 

[WODIN]

Go for no 2. Tough chicks are sexy.

 

[vixenbabe]

The unions promise you the world once you sign your union card and pay them their weekly due's.

You can kiss your job goodbye if some situations arise...Or...If the union pisses off a company into other options. You holding a union card is not worth the frickin paper it's printed on- IMO!

I have a client, private rubber company, who WAS in biz. for over 35 year's. The rubber worker's in this plant NEVER had a union until 5 year's ago. Hercules Tire and Rubber(my client) moved it's rubber div. down south last year where they could pay the NON-UNION worker less per hour than what they paid the Ohio UNION worker's. Gee..go figure!

I hear ya , VOO DOO...I hear ya!

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Write your Congressperson and tell them to repeal the Clayton Act.

During the anti-trust era, the Clayton Act came after the Sherman Act (I think I have that right). It was decided at that time that Labor was not a commodity, and therefore could not be regulated certain ways. (even though every type of economics shows that it is.

As such, unions gained in size and stature.

Historicaly, unions haev donea lot for workers. But much of that which they historically foight for is now legislation, so the unions have become political entities. (You should see how it is in the construction biz!)

Anyway good luck.

 

[VooDoo Lady]

The unions promise you the world once you sign your union card and pay them their weekly due's.

You can kiss your job goodbye if some situations arise...Or...If the union pisses off a company into other options. You holding a union card is not worth the frickin paper it's printed on- IMO!

I have a client, private rubber company, who WAS in biz. for over 35 year's. The rubber worker's in this plant NEVER had a union until 5 year's ago. Hercules Tire and Rubber(my client) moved it's rubber div. down south last year where they could pay the NON-UNION worker less per hour than what they paid the Ohio UNION worker's. Gee..go figure!

I hear ya , VOO DOO...I hear ya!

The really sad thing is that our non-union facilities pay MORE MONEY for the SAME POSITIONS!!! On top of a lower hourly pay rate, our guys are paying UNION DUES AS WELL!! AND ONE TOP OF THAT we are making them start to pay a weekly premium for their insurance when the non-union facilities do not! So, our UNION workers are taking home less than our non-union facilities!

The company has shown time and time again that we treat people with dignity and respect. The union officials, on the other hand, are delivering a royal fucking to their union brothers.

 

[Sinistar]

i used to work at a factory that was constantly bankrupt even though they had 3 local factories. so we could chew ass but couldnt back it up. the union wouldnt do shit to help the greiver or the unitchair.

and even worse, right before iquit a contract came up: we were to get a 45cent raise over 3 years. that was the best they could do. in the fucking 90s.

unions fuck the ppl far worse than Biz most of the time in the way they got to voodoo lady, they give you a little hope, and its quickly squashed.

 

[HULKSTER]

Excuse, but Unions are still very important in today's American society.....just think of how much lower the weekly pay would be, amount of hours worked would be higher and job conditions would be extremely poor if not for Unions. You have to take the good with the bad, and based on HOW VERY BAD things were for workers BEFORE UNIONS, I would rather work for a corrupt Union than not to work for a union at all. Look at how corporations treat their NON-unionized employees. They are put on salary, so that they have to work shitloads of hours for the same pay, they live in fear of being downsized, and have to put up with a corporate mentality that usually focuses more on office politics than actual work performance.

 

[c-sharp minor]

I currently belong to the Painter and Allied Trades Union and it blows chunks, for lack of a better phrase.

While I haven't seen any major drawbacks to the union, I also haven't seen any major benefits either. Close to 1000$ per year is paid in union dues as well.

But hey, I have a very cool baseball cap to show for all my dues.

 

[ariolanine]

That's about what I'd expect from a group with marxist origins. I fucking hate unions. A little while ago we had a longshoreman's strike. These assholes make over 100k/Year unloading ships and they actually went on strike.

 

[HULKSTER]

That's about what I'd expect from a group with marxist origins. I fucking hate unions. A little while ago we had a longshoreman's strike. These assholes make over 100k/Year unloading ships and they actually went on strike.

Ohhhh, I guess you worked for one of those Mafia-runned Unions. When I was younger, I actually worked for ONE OF THE LAST LEGITIMATE UNION IN AMERICA. Sorry about how they fucked you over.

 

[spongebob]

That's about what I'd expect from a group with marxist origins. I fucking hate unions. A little while ago we had a longshoreman's strike. These assholes make over 100k/Year unloading ships and they actually went on strike.

sorry, but 100k is not that much in california. im just guessing but that would probably be about 50k in most other states. sorry but thats not a whole lot of money if your raising a family theses days.

 

[ariolanine]

sorry, but 100k is not that much in california. im just guessing but that would probably be about 50k in most other states. sorry but thats not a whole lot of money if your raising a family theses days.

The long shoremen work in Astoria, OR and Portland, OR. 100K goes very far here and it is a shitload of money when you only have a hs diploma.

 

[rsnoble]

THe Alternative: think about how greedy most US corporations are. You will be putting yourself under there mercy without unions. God bless you because your going to fucking need it!

 

[spongebob]

The long shoremen work in Astoria, OR and Portland, OR. 100K goes very far here and it is a shitload of money when you only have a hs diploma.

the whole west coast is probably higher than average. and education doesnt always determine salary.

by any chance do you know what kind of profits the company is turning?

i work for a manufacturing company and we are union. im well aware of how political the union can be and im also well aware of how a company can treat its employees. the company i work for filed bankruptcy last year and guess what, the people who caused it gets fucking retention bonus'. and then when our contract came up they wanted us not to get a raise while salary people recieved bonus'. these companies are lining thier pockets constantly while always trying to stick it to the working class. there is one thing that we as middle class should start fighting for. that is better wages for all americans. we are gonna wake up and find that there is no more middle class, then where will the tax base be?

 

[rsnoble]

Right on HULKSTER! It's to bad a bunch of brainwashed kiss asses are ruining the country! Fuking idiots like Poink. Poink this faggot! Is your real name Cheney?

 

[Steroid_Virgin]

In my experience, people who work for unions are over paid... Unions are such an out dated concept anyway.. Protect the workers rights, yeah bullshit.. We have laws, lawyers and OSHA... who needs unions? Dont be fooled people.. Unions are losing power every day, and even the democrats are starting to look past them. Unions destroy companies, see Eastern Airlines et al...

To me, a union slicing the pie to labor's advantage by constraining the labor market is no different than an industrial monopolist increasing profits by fixing prices. It distorts factor costs and creates market inefficiencies that ultimately harm an economy's resource allocation. The ability of labor unions to raise wages above competitive levels has a net negative impact on society.

 

[Norman Bates]

When industrialism came up unions were illegal, striking was illegal and the result were too low wages, child labor and other unacceptable working conditions.
I prefer the present with unions, even if they are not perfect, to the situation with no unions.

 

[ariolanine]

In my experience, people who work for unions are over paid... Unions are such an out dated concept anyway.. Protect the workers rights, yeah bullshit.. We have laws, lawyers and OSHA... who needs unions? Dont be fooled people.. Unions are losing power every day, and even the democrats are starting to look past them. Unions destroy companies, see Eastern Airlines et al...

To me, a union slicing the pie to labor's advantage by constraining the labor market is no different than an industrial monopolist increasing profits by fixing prices. It distorts factor costs and creates market inefficiencies that ultimately harm an economy's resource allocation. The ability of labor unions to raise wages above competitive levels has a net negative impact on society.

Good point. The unions create a false market just like the border jumpers. Supply and demand has proven to be the most efficient. Unions subvert that.

 

[ariolanine]

THe Alternative: think about how greedy most US corporations are. You will be putting yourself under there mercy without unions. God bless you because your going to fucking need it!

And unions aren't greedy? At least the CEO's won't break my legs when I disagree with them.

 

[ariolanine]

When industrialism came up unions were illegal, striking was illegal and the result were too low wages, child labor and other unacceptable working conditions.
I prefer the present with unions, even if they are not perfect, to the situation with no unions.

It's all about supply and demand. Too many immigrants at one time.

 

[atlantabiolab]

United They Fall : Unions Won't Prosper if American Corporations Don't
by Stephen Moore

Stephen Moore is president of the Club for Growth and a senior fellow at the Cato Institute.

Last week the machinists' union indignantly rejected the latest contract offer by bankrupt United Airlines, complaining that they were being unfairly rushed into a bad deal. One could only wonder whether the union bosses have lost all sense of economic reality.

With $2 billion in debt and daily operating losses in the millions, United has to cut costs dramatically in the next several months or the airline will be out of business. The unions are hardly innocent victims of the demise of United, which not that long ago was a financial titan among airlines. In fact, the extravagant pay scales union members enjoy is one reason for United's swift plummet toward insolvency. Through collective bargaining, United pilots and mechanics have extracted pay structures that are by leaps and bounds the highest in the industry. Such costs have made the airline hopelessly uncompetitive against discount rivals like Southwest and JetBlue. Federal officials cited out-of-control salaries as a primary explanation for turning down United's recent $1.8 billion-dollar loan guarantee request.

It would appear that the pilots and mechanics will soon discover an important lesson: The alternative to accepting reduced salaries will be no jobs at all.

The United labor fracas raises the question of whether unions have so outserved their usefulness that they are now doing more harm than good for American workers. The unions are already losing hundreds of thousands of members every year, and their recent behavior suggests that labor bosses are intent on accelerating their own demise.

Consider, for example, the narrowly averted New York Transit strike, in which the union was demanding massive pay increases from an all-but-bankrupt municipal agency. New York City is facing its worst fiscal crisis since the late 1970s (when President Ford allegedly told the city to "drop dead"). Yet the comatose transit union, whose workers already receive about 30 to 40 percent more compensation than comparably skilled private sector workers, demanded even more concessions from the city. Lord knows where the money was supposed to come from.

Then there is the headline-grabbing case of the dockworker strike on the West Coast this past October. The dockworkers, who with overtime can earn six-figure salaries, were essentially striking against the evils of technological progress. The union's beef was with the decision to automate the tabulation of containers moving in and out of ports. This would be the economic equivalent of the accounting profession trying to block the introduction of calculators.

"I'm not talking about Star Wars," one industry executive pleaded. "I'm talking about everyday technology. Think supermarket scanners. FedEx or UPS tracking systems. Simple information management." Said another: "The top ports in Asia, and in Europe, are at least a decade ahead of us. Our ports literally cannot keep up."

Before President Bush invoked the Taft-Hartley Act to suspend the work stoppage, the American economy was losing an estimated $1 billion a day in output and, throughout the economy, thousands of union and non-union jobs were put at risk.

In each of these cases, the labor unions' irrational objections to technological change and economic reality have needlessly reduced the profitability and the competitiveness of American firms. The Luddite attitude of "man versus machine" will not protect jobs or raise wage scales. Just the opposite: Throughout the last century, computerization and technological progress have been the driving force behind the increased productivity of workers and their higher salaries. For example, one study recently found that when an employee works with a computer in front of him, his salary is likely to be $10,000 to $20,000 higher than if he is without one.

One of the most baffling and self-defeating of union tactics is the $1 million TV and radio campaign by the Communications Workers of America against Verizon, the Baby Bell of the Northeast. As even the most casual investor knows, the last three years have been brutally unkind to the telecom industry. In 2000, the telecom sector contracted by 28 percent and bled almost $1.7 trillion in lost share values. Overall telecom expenditures are down 45 percent this year--a cut in capital investment of over $30 billion. More than half a million telecom workers have lost their jobs. That hasn't deterred the CWA from spending members' dues blasting Verizon's planned cutbacks of about 3,500 jobs in the New York region.

The union complains with some validity that the firm is paying million-dollar bonuses to management even as it executes its downsizing plans. Those bonuses do seem unwarranted given the wobbly financial condition of the industry. But the larger economic reality here is that Verizon is losing revenue as government regulations force it to lease phone lines to competitor companies at fire-sale rates. The firm is losing hundreds of thousands of phone lines to competitors, and its landline business is surrendering market share to cell phones, e-mail, and cable telephony.

Meanwhile the incendiary union ads heap abuse on Verizon and characterize management as a gang of corporate crooks. How is this going to help communications workers? The strategy makes about as much sense as Kobe Bryant and Allen Iverson running TV ads encouraging fans not to go to NBA games. It is precisely such self-destructive union policies that have made new age industries, including high tech, fiercely anti-union.

Over the past 30 years, union membership as a share of the workforce has fallen by half. Only one in six workers today is a dues-paying union member, and the percentage of private sector union workers is much lower than that.

In fact, pollster Scott Rasmussen has pointed out that on Election Day, three times as many voters were stock owners than union members. These workers understand that their 401(k) plans and their IRAs are dependent on the profitability of American industry. This reality--that workers can prosper only when the companies they work for do--has eluded many union officials.

This article was published in the Weekly Standard, January 13, 2003 and in the the NY Post January 12, 2003.

 

[Steroid_Virgin]

unions are legal thuggery and blackmail...

 

[VooDoo Lady]

"The United labor fracas raises the question of whether unions have so outserved their usefulness that they are now doing more harm than good for American workers."

This is SO TRUE!! I have a very unique perspective in that we have 7 non-union facilities and 1 union facility, so I get to compare apples to apples.

As I stated earlier, our non-union facilities have higher pay rates, plus they don't have to pay any premiums for their health coverage or union dues. So, how is the union protecting the workers at our site from the "greedy" owners of our company??? The answer is - they aren't!!

As someone has already mentioned, unions aren't needed to protect the workers anymore, the law, lawyers, and OSHA do a very good job of that. Unions are no longer necessary. Period.

The most frustrating thing to me is that the union officials are primarily the people who have the biggest mouth and the most aggressive attitudes, NOT necessarily the best and brightest of the group. I don't want to sound condescending, but our union officials are very poorly educated people who have no understanding of how to run a business.

They honestly don't understand why we make a lot of the decisions that we make. I try to explain the business reasons behind some of the things that we do, but very little of it gets through to them.

They all have very narrow-minded thinking. If it's not good for them personally TODAY, they don't want to hear about it. They fail to understand that continuous improvement/cost control is vital to the very SURVIVAL of our business.

I don't know how many times I have heard "You're only doing this to screw us!" I have actually said back to them "Yes, we sit around at night dreaming up new ways to screw you guys, just because that's the kind of people we are."

Unfortunately, sarcasm is generally lost on them.

 

[atlantabiolab]

"The United labor fracas raises the question of whether unions have so outserved their usefulness that they are now doing more harm than good for American workers."

This is SO TRUE!! I have a very unique perspective in that we have 7 non-union facilities and 1 union facility, so I get to compare apples to apples.

As I stated earlier, our non-union facilities have higher pay rates, plus they don't have to pay any premiums for their health coverage or union dues. So, how is the union protecting the workers at our site from the "greedy" owners of our company??? The answer is - they aren't!!

As someone has already mentioned, unions aren't needed to protect the workers anymore, the law, lawyers, and OSHA do a very good job of that. Unions are no longer necessary. Period.

The most frustrating thing to me is that the union officials are primarily the people who have the biggest mouth and the most aggressive attitudes, NOT necessarily the best and brightest of the group. I don't want to sound condescending, but our union officials are very poorly educated people who have no understanding of how to run a business.

They honestly don't understand why we make a lot of the decisions that we make. I try to explain the business reasons behind some of the things that we do, but very little of it gets through to them.

All have very narrow-minded thinking. If it's not good for them personally TODAY, they don't want to hear about it. They fail to understand that continuous improvement/cost control is vital to the very SURVIVAL of our business.

I don't know how many times I have heard "You're only doing this to screw us!" I have actually said back to them "Yes, we sit around at night dreaming up new ways to screw you guys, just because that's the kind of people we are."

Unfortunately, sarcasm is generally lost on them.

This is not unique to unions, but to society in general. We have as a nation lost the concept of responsibility and ambition. We have a mindset of entitlement and victimization. If one has more than us, we are told that we "deserve" what they have. We fall for the concept that others exploit us for their benefit and therefore we are truly victims, that corporations are evil, yet government is good. We rationalize jealosy by contriving "evil" rich men holding us all down and paying us starvation wages, when we have every freedom to leave jobs and find better ones, or educate ourselves to earn higher pay, or start enterprises of our interests.

 

[spongebob]

You can kiss your job goodbye if some situations arise...Or...If the union pisses off a company into other options. You holding a union card is not worth the frickin paper it's printed on- IMO!

not nessecarily, look at the P.A.C.E. for example. very large and very powerful. they have the power to shut down many major oil refineries at the same time. at this time i highly doubt one of the companies would want to piss them off. these companies cant simply shut down or move, too expensive for either option. i would love to work at a plant that was represented by that union. now dont get me wrong, like i said i know how unions can be. but actually some of them still have a need.

 

[Testosterone boy]

The track record of upper management is not looking too pristine over the past 20 years. Millions have been laid off in the name of corporate profitability while executive salaries and perks have grown by 400 times.


Problem is not unions, it is human nature. Some of ya'll suck.

 

[spongebob]

The really sad thing is that our non-union facilities pay MORE MONEY for the SAME POSITIONS!!! On top of a lower hourly pay rate, our guys are paying UNION DUES AS WELL!! AND ONE TOP OF THAT we are making them start to pay a weekly premium for their insurance when the non-union facilities do not! So, our UNION workers are taking home less than our non-union facilities!

alot of people(union and non-union) will tell you that the reason non-union facilities pay more is because of the union facilities. they pay more to the employees to keep the union out, usually its something like .75 to 1.00 more. now hypothetically speaking, if there were no unions do you think that the companies would pay what they do? i dont think so, why? because most of these jobs, like someone pointed out, are usually people with only a high school diploma. well you might say, "well then they shouldnt pay that much". yea maybe not, but like i said earlier, the middle class will be gone soon because these are middle class jobs. i believe we all should strive for more people getting paid a better fare wage. i honestly believe the corporations are getting greedier and greedier. its all about how can they sqeeze another dime out regardless if the worker is getting shafted. like i said, i know how unions can be, but i do believe they are still nessecary.

here's what recently happened where i work. its quite ironic.
i work at a chemical company and we are union. all the jobs use to be company jobs, meaning you were employed by the company. well over the years some jobs have been lost to outside contractors. the first contractors were union, then they were underbid by a non-union contractor. well now they have been told to take 2.00/hr paycut because they too have been underbid by another contractor. a painter came up to me and was complaing that they had to take this cut and they even lost some jobs to the other contractor, he looked at me with a straight face and said, "they are taking our jobs" i looked right back at him and said, " you mean the jobs you took from us". he was stunned and then said, " yea i know" and walked away.

were talking about a job that use to pay 22$/hr now paying 8-10/hr. and i understand that maybe 22/hr might be high. but where do we end up. the next guy comes in for 5$/hr. this is how the middle class will dissolve. its just something to think about. i believe we all need to make more money. when we all prosper as individuals then we prosper as a society.

 

[Testosterone boy]

alot of people(union and non-union) will tell you that the reason non-union facilities pay more is because of the union facilities. they pay more to the employees to keep the union out, usually its something like .75 to 1.00 more. now hypothetically speaking, if there were no unions do you think that the companies would pay what they do? i dont think so, why? because most of these jobs, like someone pointed out, are usually people with only a high school diploma. well you might say, "well then they shouldnt pay that much". yea maybe not, but like i said earlier, the middle class will be gone soon because these are middle class jobs. i believe we all should strive for more people getting paid a better fare wage. i honestly believe the corporations are getting greedier and greedier. its all about how can they sqeeze another dime out regardless if the worker is getting shafted. like i said, i know how unions can be, but i do believe they are still nessecary.

here's what recently happened where i work. its quite ironic.
i work at a chemical company and we are union. all the jobs use to be company jobs, meaning you were employed by the company. well over the years some jobs have been lost to outside contractors. the first contractors were union, then they were underbid by a non-union contractor. well now they have been told to take 2.00/hr paycut because they too have been underbid by another contractor. a painter came up to me and was complaing that they had to take this cut and they even lost some jobs to the other contractor, he looked at me with a straight face and said, "they are taking our jobs" i looked right back at him and said, " you mean the jobs you took from us". he was stunned and then said, " yea i know" and walked away.

were talking about a job that use to pay 22$/hr now paying 8-10/hr. and i understand that maybe 22/hr might be high. but where do we end up. the next guy comes in for 5$/hr. this is how the middle class will dissolve. its just something to think about. i believe we all need to make more money. when we all prosper as individuals then we prosper as a society.

sponge.....there is a scent of optimism in your writing that I wish I had. Just exactly what is going to reverse the ongoing trends?

 

[spongebob]

sponge.....there is a scent of optimism in your writing that I wish I had. Just exactly what is going to reverse the ongoing trends?

my optimism comes from my daily experieces. all too often we let the evening news or media in general shape our opinions. its hard to avoid. i find that individual experiences tell me the truth. when you meet the person that is homosexual, when you meet the person that is of different ethnicity, when you meet the person that worships a different god, when you meet that evil union worker. when you meet these people and find that you actually have more in common with them than you had previously realized. i have come to the conclusion that the one thing that should bond all working class people is our wages and a high standard of living. i think this is the only way we may turn it around, some of our problems in society. but the problem is that the two party system has polarized us to the point of no return. which has led to the philosophy of "every man for himself". my issue is more important than your issue mentality. corporations gotta love it!

 

[Testosterone boy]

my optimism comes from my daily experieces. all too often we let the evening news or media in general shape our opinions. its hard to avoid. i find that individual experiences tell me the truth. when you meet the person that is homosexual, when you meet the person that is of different ethnicity, when you meet the person that worships a different god, when you meet that evil union worker. when you meet these people and find that you actually have more in common with them than you had previously realized. i have come to the conclusion that the one thing that should bond all working class people is our wages and a high standard of living. i think this is the only way we may turn it around, some of our problems in society. but the problem is that the two party system has polarized us to the point of no return. which has led to the philosophy of "every man for himself". my issue is more important than your issue mentality. corporations gotta love it!

Yea.....my daily experiences are much better than what I read about. World is not all that bad, I got at least 10 free beers on my last vacation.

 

[Toozee]

Unions are like people. Some really suck, some are great and everything in between.
Sorry to hear you got a bad one you're dealin with.