totally new with PCT need help.

[flyin j]

ok i joined this site last week its an incredibly helpful site with people who know what there talking about, unlike my sources who until i asked a year ago after my first cycle had never used any pct and these guys have been in the game a long time so im new with this and looking to start a 2nd cycle in a month or 2 so i have a few questions.

im going to run: 400mg EQ 8 weeks
50mg winny eod last 4 weeks
its a small cycle and i posted it on the main discussion board and got no real answers just people arguing about flaming other people... me I guess, but the one answer i got said to take HCG and nolva for 4 weeks but i have been asking around and hcg is not available so i was wondereing if i could get away with nolva or clomid for 4 weeks and is that long enough and when do i start it, and finally im leaning towards a small dose of deca maybe 200 a week while on winny just for joint pain how will that affect things.

Sorry for the long post but there is nothing but ignorant info around my gym and i want to do things right any input would be greatly appreciated thanks.

 

[Jenetic]

Overall, the cycle looks good. The addition of 200-300mgs Deca EW compliments the cycle nicely. However, I would recommend using the winstrol for a full 6-8 weeks to reap it's full potential, especially when using a nandrolone such as Deca. The concern for liver damage is not an issue as long as you incoporate the proper supplements which are 600-1000mgs ED alpha lipoic acid (ALA or R-ALA) and 4-6 capsules ED Tyler's Liver Detox. Glucorell (R-ALA) and Tyler's Liver Detox can both be purchased from the AF Store.

In regards to PCT, I highly recommend going with the standard protocol. 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for a total of 3 weeks. Then, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for and addtional 3 weeks. Blood work before begining the cycle is preferred to establish baseline values and should be used comparatively with post PCT blood work to evaluate your recovery.

Clomid or Nolvadex only during PCT is a crapshoot in my opinion. It works for some people and it doesn't work for some people. The only time I would recommend using Clomid or Nolvadex only during PCT is if recovery was confirmed by blood work on a previous cycle.

Let me know if there is anything further you would like for me to address. Welcome aboard.

Jenetic

 

[flyin j]

Overall, the cycle looks good. The addition of 200-300mgs Deca EW compliments the cycle nicely. However, I would recommend using the winstrol for a full 6-8 weeks to reap it's full potential, especially when using a nandrolone such as Deca. The concern for liver damage is not an issue as long as you incoporate the proper supplements which are 600-1000mgs ED alpha lipoic acid (ALA or R-ALA) and 4-6 capsules ED Tyler's Liver Detox. Glucorell (R-ALA) and Tyler's Liver Detox can both be purchased from the AF Store.

In regards to PCT, I highly recommend going with the standard protocol. 1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk (mon/wed/fri) in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for a total of 3 weeks. Then, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for and addtional 3 weeks. Blood work before begining the cycle is preferred to establish baseline values and should be used comparatively with post PCT blood work to evaluate your recovery.

Clomid or Nolvadex only during PCT is a crapshoot in my opinion. It works for some people and it doesn't work for some people. The only time I would recommend using Clomid or Nolvadex only during PCT is if recovery was confirmed by blood work on a previous cycle.

Let me know if there is anything further you would like for me to address. Welcome aboard.

Jenetic

YOU ARE THE MAN, thanks for the reply, and happy to be aboard.

 

[flyin j]

ok one more thing, about the statement "however i recommend using the winstrol for a full 6-8 weeks to reap its full potential, especially when using a nandrolone such as Deca". about the winny i agree but about the "especially when using a nandrolone such as deca" part i dont get, how does deca affect winny, and my goal in this cycle is to get a hard more solid look which people tell me i have but i want to take it to the next level so is deca in this cycle going to affect my goal in a negative way, and also ive picked up a working knowledge of the following question through reading several threads but i want to ask you directly because your obviously an expert,and willing to help, but what is the difference in HCG and nolva what sets them apart, i understand that might be a stupid question but as i ask around my gym, nolva they all use but HCG is almost unheard of.

And if i had any karmic power I would send some your way thanks for the help bro.

 

[Jenetic]

Nandrolones such as Deca have been shown to increase Prolactin levels. Prolactin itself is a very suppressive hormone which, if left unmanaged, can lead to a prolonged recovery. Although I haven't personally experienced this, Winstrol has been shown in some cases to counteract the progestinic activity expressed by Deca. Therefore, you are able to avoid joint problems while protecting yourself against possible increase in Prolactin.

The ability for nandrolones to increase prolactin is a highly argumentative subject. There is plenty of research that both proves and disproves this subject. However, there is an abundant ammount of real life expreiences confirmed by blood work which does in fact support this subject.

You really have nothing to be worried about with the dosages you have presented. From my experiences, the best way to counteract the side effects of Deca is to use and anti prolactin with dopaminergic properties such as Cabergoline or Bromocriptine. Do not freak out on this issue as it shouldn't be pertinent in your particular scenario.

In regards to the difference between HCG and Nolvadex, they are both completely different substances with different purposes. In a nutshell, HCG is to synthetic testosterone as Clomid or Nolvadex is to prohormones. One directly increases testicular testosterone production where as the latter increases testosterone production in a secondary manner. Nolvadex is primarily used as an anti estrogen, to offset the possible leydig cell desensitization and to continue pituitary LH (LH+Leydig Cells=Testosterone) secretion once HCG has been discontinued.

I'm currently working on an update to my stickey which goes over all the aspects of PCT from basic to advanced. Hopefully, I'll manage to get that up in the near future.

Jenetic

 

[flyin j]

WOW, thanks man they should F'n pay you alot of money for the info you give out to everyone, i know i cant say enough THANKS!!

 

[nexus7]

The concern for liver damage is not an issue as long as you incoporate the proper supplements which are 600-1000mgs ED alpha lipoic acid (ALA or R-ALA) and 4-6 capsules ED Tyler's Liver Detox. Jenetic

Jenetic,
I am wondering: where would liver toxicity come from here? I always thought injectables did not affect liver values...
Or is it the fact that winnie is a water-based alpha alkyl?

 

[Jenetic]

Jenetic,
I am wondering: where would liver toxicity come from here? I always thought injectables did not affect liver values...
Or is it the fact that winnie is a water-based alpha alkyl?

Liver values in general are effected in a variety of ways. Many people use oral tablets or drink the aqueos solution, hence the recommendation for the liver protection. You are correct, it's not really a problem with injectables.

Jenetic

 

[oldman69]

Nandrolones such as Deca have been shown to increase Prolactin levels. Prolactin itself is a very suppressive hormone which, if left unmanaged, can lead to a prolonged recovery. Although I haven't personally experienced this, Winstrol has been shown in some cases to counteract the progestinic activity expressed by Deca. Therefore, you are able to avoid joint problems while protecting yourself against possible increase in Prolactin.

The ability for nandrolones to increase prolactin is a highly argumentative subject. There is plenty of research that both proves and disproves this subject. However, there is an abundant ammount of real life expreiences confirmed by blood work which does in fact support this subject.

You really have nothing to be worried about with the dosages you have presented. From my experiences, the best way to counteract the side effects of Deca is to use and anti prolactin with dopaminergic properties such as Cabergoline or Bromocriptine. Do not freak out on this issue as it shouldn't be pertinent in your particular scenario.

In regards to the difference between HCG and Nolvadex, they are both completely different substances with different purposes. In a nutshell, HCG is to synthetic testosterone as Clomid or Nolvadex is to prohormones. One directly increases testicular testosterone production where as the latter increases testosterone production in a secondary manner. Nolvadex is primarily used as an anti estrogen, to offset the possible leydig cell desensitization and to continue pituitary LH (LH+Leydig Cells=Testosterone) secretion once HCG has been discontinued.

I'm currently working on an update to my stickey which goes over all the aspects of PCT from basic to advanced. Hopefully, I'll manage to get that up in the near future.

Jenetic

Just my 2 cents. 20-22 years ago I used Deca exclusively, at 400-600mgs per week. Experienced the "deca dick" issue, along with a nasty case of gyno, which resulted in surgery. Before the surgery I had bloods including prolactin, (i was off 4-5 months), my prolactin was off the charts!(3X max.) My opinion, Deca definetly increases prolactin levels. Although as always, on an indiidual basis.

 

[Jenetic]

Just my 2 cents. 20-22 years ago I used Deca exclusively, at 400-600mgs per week. Experienced the "deca dick" issue, along with a nasty case of gyno, which resulted in surgery. Before the surgery I had bloods including prolactin, (i was off 4-5 months), my prolactin was off the charts!(3X max.) My opinion, Deca definetly increases prolactin levels. Although as always, on an indiidual basis.

It's real life experiences like this that are invaluable. Thanks for sharing.

The best solution is Dostinex (cabergoline) at 0.5 mgs 2x/wk (mon/thurs). I have yet to see anyone ecounter they typical side effects such as "deca dick", gynecomastia or a prolonged recovery when Dostinex has been incoporated with the usage of nandrolones such as Deca and Tren.

Jenetic