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Thoughts on John Berardi's recent remarks about Caffeine?

smokinghawk

New member
From the last T-mag, Berardi wrote about recent caffeine research, showing VERY bad effects on insulin sensitivity. Berardi's assessments are sufficient to make one wonder if an ECA is self-defeating, as if the addition of caffeine actually undoes some of the fat-burning properties of the ephedrine. He does not directly comment on whether caffeine would be better omitted, but consider this cut-and-paste:

1) Caffeine intake (in all of its forms) decreases whole body glucose disposal (carbohydrate uptake) by 15-30%.

2) Caffeine intake decreases skeletal muscle glucose disposal by 50%.

3) When consumed with a standard carbohydrate breakfast, caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity, leading to large increases in blood insulin. But even in the face of this insulin surge, blood glucose doesn't disappear at a normal rate. When the body can't take up carbohydrates properly (as when drinking coffee), it releases loads of insulin to help out. However, the coffee actually prevents the insulin from doing this job and you end up with high insulin and glucose. That, my friends, is the serum profile of the obese, type II diabetic.

4) Caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity for at least three hours (this is the duration of the longest study they've performed), but the true duration of the effect isn't known. I speculate that it's at least five hours, the half life of caffeine.

In this case, many people are probably walking around all day with impaired insulin sensitivity. If you're a coffee drinker you should realize that you're living your life like a diabetic except during the times that it could actually be diagnosed. When you go to the doc to see why you're so fat or you feel like crap (if you have any glucose or insulin tolerance problems), what do you have to do? You have to fast overnight and avoid coffee! So 99% of your waking life you're functionally diabetic and that 1% of the time when it really matters and can be diagnosed, you're not. No wonder experts suggest that 50% of North Americans are diabetics who aren't diagnosed as such.

5) In one study, four groups were used to evaluate the effect of caffeine and glycemic index on insulin sensitivity.

• The first group got decaf and a low-GI breakfast. They saw a normal blood glucose and insulin response.

• The second group got decaf and a high-GI breakfast. They saw a bigger insulin and glucose response in the blood.

• However, when the low GI group got regular coffee with breakfast, their blood profile was worse than that of those who got the high-glycemic breakfast and decaf. Therefore coffee/caffeine can turn a low glycemic meal into a high glycemic meal!

• Finally, the group that drank coffee and had the high-glycemic meal ended up looking like diabetics.

6) One interesting hypothesis generated at the seminar was as follows: In terms of insulin sensitivity, caffeine alone is worse than coffee and obviously (as seen above) coffee is worse than nothing. However, some people believe that certain substances in coffee (specific quinides) can actually increase glucose disposal and improve insulin sensitivity. While the quinide content of coffee isn't strong enough to counter the effects of the caffeine, the quinides in decaf coffee may actually increase glucose and insulin tolerance. This hypothesis still needs to be tested and proper doses have yet to be discussed; however, keep your eyes out for this research in the near future.

So the final word on coffee and caffeine is this — stay the heck away from it! The only way to minimize the damage it causes may be to drink your coffee with a very low carbohydrate meal and eat only low carb meals for the next few hours after your coffee intake. I know, I know, it now sucks to be a coffee drinker! But giving up your java may bring you some great health and physique benefits.
 
You can find some thoughts about it in a recent threat named "coffee" here in the diet board. (if you didn't already).

In "cutting" diets, caffeine woudn't be so prejudicial, some beneficial part (promoting fatty acids mobilisation), helping burning fat that way.
RIght now i an avoiding taking caffeine in the afternoon but still drink some coffee in the morning, mostly pre-cardio.
Like that i have more then 7 hours before i do the afternoon workout (where i ingest hi-GI carbs)
When i do a day with more carbs (carb-up) i avoid taking it at all.
I don't know about bulking, but maybe it would be better not taking it at all. maybe one small cup if someone makes cardio while bulking in the morning would be ok.
 
1) "Caffeine intake (in all of its forms) decreases whole body glucose disposal (carbohydrate uptake) by 15-30%."

This statement should be qualified with "in adult males" since caffeine has no effect on glucose disposal in females (Metabolism 2000 Jan;49(1):101-7; Influence of age on the thermic response to caffeine in women.)

2) "Caffeine intake decreases skeletal muscle glucose disposal by 50%"

This statement should be qualified by "in sedentary couch potatoes" since this is clearly not the case during exercise (J Physiol 2000 Dec 15;529 Pt 3:837-47; Caffeine ingestion does not alter carbohydrate or fat metabolism in human skeletal muscle during exercise).


"So the final word on coffee and caffeine is this - stay the heck away from it! The only way to minimize the damage it causes may be to drink your coffee with a very low carbohydrate meal and eat only low carb meals for the next few hours after your coffee intake. I know, I know, it now sucks to be a coffee drinker! But giving up your java may bring you some great health and physique benefits"………..

This is a bizarre conclusion to come to for a website that promotes itself as being into fitness. There is a plethora of research that shows that caffeine and even more so caffeine plus ephedrine leads to an increase in energy expenditure, better exercise tolerance (via glucose sparing effects) and an increase in lipolysis that leads to a significant fat loss. As one paper summarized

"Twenty-four-hour energy expenditure was higher in both groups during drug treatment. Ephedrine+Caffeine did not produce systematic changes in glucoregulatory variables, whereas plasma leptin concentrations decreased in both groups with drug treatment. Overall, these results show that E+C treatment can promote fat loss through an increase in energy expenditure, or in some individuals, a combination of an increase in energy expenditure and a decrease in food intake."

"The thermic effect of caffeinated and decaffeinated coffee ingested with a standard breakfast was studied in 8 healthy subjects with indirect calorimetry. A higher increase in the metabolic rate was observed after ingestion of the breakfast with coffee containing caffeine than after that with coffee deprived of caffeine."

Although I agree that excess caffeine consumption in combo with a meal high in carbs may not be a good idea if you're obese or already insulin resistant, I firmly believe that some java first thing in the morning (before cardio or weights) or before any exercise is a good thing. And ECA clearly helps people lose fat no matter when it's taken.
 
I havent read the article yet, but most of what that fucker says is bullshit. Caffeine enhances ephedra by stopping the breakdown of cAMP, so it aids lyposis.
 
Nice post MS...I read the article and haven't had coffee in 2 days...thanks to you tommorrow I will wake up to a 6 cup pot again :D
 
I posted this below but since this is a new thread I will post it again. This is what I believe to be the real reason T-mag ran an article containing this study.

just an observation but did anyone notice how this was conveniently printed in T-mag the week after they discontinued their caffeine containing thermogenic? Whew, I bet they are glad they dodged that bullet {read in a VERY SARCASTIC tone}

They are out of the stimulant market and now that they have no interest in it (and now that they do have an interest in their new stim-free product) they are attempting to demonize caffeine so those using ECA stacks will switch over to their new product.
 
=w= said:
I posted this below but since this is a new thread I will post it again. This is what I believe to be the real reason T-mag ran an article containing this study.



They are out of the stimulant market and now that they have no interest in it (and now that they do have an interest in their new stim-free product) they are attempting to demonize caffeine so those using ECA stacks will switch over to their new product.

I wouldn't be surprised if you are right.

My personal opinion of T-mag is that it is your typical shitty muscle mag.
 
Interesting info about T-mags possible motives. In their defense, it should be common knowledge if you're using thermogenics combos such as E+C that they work best if you avoid insulogenic meals until well after you take the supps. They will work either way in terms of your long term goals, but having your coffee (or E+C) with a donut is kinda like two steps forward and one step back instead of just 2 steps forward. But coffee before exercise or on an empty stomach is nothing to worry about and will in fact get you burning fat faster than without the stimulants.
 
I'm pretty much off most mainstream fat burners now, until Syntrax or Avant Labs come out with a new uncoupling product.
 
good post MS

BTW, between years of peered reviewed studies and t-mag, I know which one to believe :D
 
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