this test problem is driving me crazy

[DeathB4Dishonor]

ok im planning on my next cycle fellas, and ive been doing a quite a lot of research on what kind of test should i use with my EQ and l-dex for some good quality muscle and to keep the water retention as low as possible. some say to use sust at 500mg/week. others say to use prop at 100mg/eod but then some say it hurts like hell and might keep u out of the gym, and others say it doesnt hurt at all. Should i drop the test all together and just go withs ome deca (hoping that the liquidex will keep the water off). My first chice was fina but my living condistions wont allow me to make shit at home right now, and ready-made shit is just too expensive. so can i get a clear answer on this one fellas??

 

[Zyglamail]

If you get good human grad prop it should be painless. Test is test is test so in the end it boils down to preference. Many claim one test ester gives more water than other but its all simply anecdotal evidence at best and there is nothing to support the claims. I personally would just find some good enth or cyp and call it a day.

 

[theoak01]

why dont you stick with a single ester to keep blood levels constant,maybe enanthate or suspension,your diet has alot to do with water retention keep the eq aroudn 600mg a week and run .5 mg of l-dex a day to keep bloat down


just my opinion

 

[genarr3]

What Zyg said.

You can't go wrong with a good Cypionate or Enanthate.

 

[DeathB4Dishonor]

ok my brothas lol check this out:
about half a page down there is a poll about "Best test for lean muscle mass and least sides???? " started by "juice17" and in that poll cyp and Enanthate didnt get any votes at all compared to what sust and prop got?

 

[DeathB4Dishonor]

should i just drop all this and go with the classic deca/winny cycle? the liquidex will help keep all the bloat off right? and i also got some halo and var. i can throw in halo for the last four weeks just to spark it up at about 10mg/day just take a shit load of ala to keep the liver happy? and then use the var as a bridge for my next cycle? Probably use the deca at about 300 or 400mg/week and at about 100mg/ed. how does that sound fellas?

 

[Andy13]

ok my brothas lol check this out:
about half a page down there is a poll about "Best test for lean muscle mass and least sides???? " started by "juice17" and in that poll cyp and Enanthate didnt get any votes at all compared to what sust and prop got?

Here's where you have to take a look and judge for yourself who is full of shit and who's opinions are worth a shit...

Bro-- this is a debate that WILL NOT DIE.

Here it is, straight-up for you...

All testosterones are the same.. They differ ONLY in their frequency that they need to be injected to maintain stable blood levels.

 

[genarr3]

ok my brothas lol check this out:
about half a page down there is a poll about "Best test for lean muscle mass and least sides???? " started by "juice17" and in that poll cyp and Enanthate didnt get any votes at all compared to what sust and prop got?

Any votes for different types of test comes more from ignorance then actual science. Test is test. The only difference between them is the ester which controls the release time. Once it is released it is exactly the same compound.

One would use a Propinate or Suspension if you wanted for whatever reason a fast acting steroid, sometimes used along with a longer ester test like Cyp or Enan in the begining while waiting for the longer to start acting.

I'll put myself out there that any vet, someone that has some real knowledge and experience that would prefer Sustenon over a single ester.

Sustenon was made as a long acting test replacement drug that didn't need to be frequently injected, hence the 4 different esters. It really doesn't have a place in BBing where we don't care as much about the extra injections.

That's about all I can say bro, do what you want.

 

[Zyglamail]

For some reason people seem to think that an ester or more specifically a long ester add more bloat. I ask to all those people to show me clinical proof that this is the case. All I have saeen is pure anecdotal evidence and no scientific studies to back up the claims

On a side note, you do get more test per mg for suspension than you do any other test since the ester weight is included in the measurement.

Anastrozole will control bloat fine if you use enough. Dont for a second think that deca will bloat you less than test because for many it boats worse. The point im getting at is you seem to be very worried about something that likely wont even be an issue and its impossibly for anyone to tell you with any degree of certianty how you will react to a given AAS. Make an educated cycle and follow it. The biggest problem I see with people is they overanalyze and they spend so much time trying to weight the positives and negatives without even knowing how they react to the AAS in the first place. For example, some guys can run 1g test a week with no anti-e and have little bloat and little problems at all. Others blow up like the stay puffed marshmellow man on 250mg/wk. How are you going to react? Who the hell knows. Just plan you cycle, have anastrozole on hand and you should be just fine. Just dont skimp on it if bloat is your big concern.

 

[DeathB4Dishonor]

lol ok thats understandable i guess. so what youre saying is that if you inject it more often it will be better off because it will keep the blood levels at a constant high level instead of jumping around like a roller coaster? ok thats cool. so what do you think about my other deca/winny/ldex suggestion? i did ** winny for my first cycle (got it cuz it was cheap) and it wasnt all that, i had to take 100mg/ed to get results of like 30/40mg/ed. so you think that cycle will be good for a quality 15/20 lbs? or should I drop the deca and take eq with winny? sorry for all these stupid questions. i do know what i want, just choosing the gear is a little harder than i thought.

 

[genarr3]

Here's where you have to take a look and judge for yourself who is full of shit and who's opinions are worth a shit...

Bro-- this is a debate that WILL NOT DIE.

Here it is, straight-up for you...

All testosterones are the same.. They differ ONLY in their frequency that they need to be injected to maintain stable blood levels.

Well bro if you don't want to listen to me, at least believe this guy. I've been reading his posts for the past year and he's probably the most knowledgeable guy on the net when it comes to gear.

 

[DeathB4Dishonor]

Genarr3: i do believe andy13, cuz i know theres some truth to the blood level statement that he made. i just dont know how different AS work, but thats why im here. And i know your statement about the time releasing of sust is right as well because ive read that at many other places. thanks for ur help bros.

 

[Andy13]

Any votes for different types of test comes more from ignorance then actual science. Test is test. The only difference between them is the ester which controls the release time. Once it is released it is exactly the same compound.

One would use a Propinate or Suspension if you wanted for whatever reason a fast acting steroid, sometimes used along with a longer ester test like Cyp or Enan in the begining while waiting for the longer to start acting.

I'll put myself out there that any vet, someone that has some real knowledge and experience that would prefer Sustenon over a single ester.

Sustenon was made as a long acting test replacement drug that didn't need to be frequently injected, hence the 4 different esters. It really doesn't have a place in BBing where we don't care as much about the extra injections.

That's about all I can say bro, do what you want.

You've got it...

The thing that most don't understand about sustanon and esters in general is that, when you inject 4 esters, ALL peak early, but at different 'heights' (graphically) and different downward sloap rates.

If you graphed the esters of sustanon seperately, you would see STEEP ski sloaps for the short esters, and less steep ski-sloaps for the longer esters. But, ALL esters peak 'early.' It's not like they take turns leaving the injection site...

I've graphed sustanon vs testosterone enanthate before.. It turns out that sustanon acts just like a single-ester testosterone with a half life similar or just a tad longer that TE..

If someone would post some definitive half lives for the esters in sustanon and TE, i'll graph it again.. I don't remember what half lived I used for the sust esters and TE.

Andy

 

[Zyglamail]

Ill see if I can dig up an old one.

 

[go_hard_80]

why dont you stick with a single ester to keep blood levels constant,maybe enanthate or suspension,your diet has alot to do with water retention keep the eq aroudn 600mg a week and run .5 mg of l-dex a day to keep bloat down


just my opinion

bro, test suspension wont give better stable levels of test vs sust plus suspension will give you more water retention, unless you want to do 2 shots a day i would stick with 500mgs test a week vs test suspension

just my .02$

go_hard_80

 

[genarr3]

On a side note, you do get more test per mg for suspension than you do any other test since the ester weight is included in the measurement.

Oh yea, I forgot about this. Another reason Sustenon isn't a good steroid.

 

[Zyglamail]

bro, test suspension wont give better stable levels of test vs sust plus suspension will give you more water retention, unless you want to do 2 shots a day i would stick with 500mgs test a week vs test suspension

just my .02$

go_hard_80

Since when will suspension give more water? I for one would be interested in seeing some scientific studies showing these reported sides.

 

[go_hard_80]

why dont you stick with a single ester to keep blood levels constant,maybe enanthate or suspension,your diet has alot to do with water retention keep the eq aroudn 600mg a week and run .5 mg of l-dex a day to keep bloat down


just my opinion

i just have to disagree with you on the test suspension

500mgs sust a week, mmmmmmmmmmmm.......sust500mgs

go_hard_80

 

[DeathB4Dishonor]

so by lookin at the graph. prop keeps the most amount of of the drug in ur system mg per mg right? and it also seems to be the fastest acting. good stuff man. thanks Zyg. i'd give you some Karma but I dont even know how all that shit works and what its for.

 

[DeathB4Dishonor]

hey Zyg: what happened to the graph that was just on here? i thought i seen one like a minute ago?

 

[theoak01]

it would appear as though we have another all i know about in the world of steroids is sust guy so i wont argue the fact with you

all i know is what ive read from guys like andy13 and other knowledgeable guys plus what my body does


deathb4 listen to andy about the only difference being time release because it is true

 

[Andy13]

so by lookin at the graph. prop keeps the most amount of of the drug in ur system mg per mg right? and it also seems to be the fastest acting. good stuff man. thanks Zyg. i'd give you some Karma but I dont even know how all that shit works and what its for.

Mg per mg, test prop "weighs less" than other testosterones. Think of this as as having 2 boxes or marbles-- one has 10 small ones and weighs 20 grams. Another has 5 big ones and weighs the same 20 grams. You get "more" marbles with the smaller one's gram per gram .. Just like with test prop, you get more test, mg/mg.

It "lasting longer or shorter" than other tests in the body is misleading.. When you inject an ester, it's like an implant almost.. A little is released at a time, with the most released at first, then slower and slower than before afterward.. The amount in the implant at any time can be considered "outside of the body" since it must be released to become activated.

Test prop releases faster, so blood levels from 200mg of TP vs 200mg TE are going to peak higher with TP. TE doesn't peak as high (but the 'dropoff' is more gradual) and can be thought of as a "slower leak."