Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below 
Ok had to get your attention
Below is an excert from an article on Clenbuterol, and it really does make sence to me.
Is Clen catabolic? Can this actually help us grow?
This may sound even stranger after what I just said but Clen can truly be a catabolic drug, too. At low dosage, it will go unnoticed. But past a certain amount (equivalent of 15-20 tablets of 20 mcg) chances are you are going to get sore by using Clen. Scientific research in humans demonstrates a potent catabolic effect of Clen as reflected by a rise of serum creatine kinase level. This means that Clen is attacking our muscle cells a bit like heavy training does.
Sound bad?
No!
Is it of any use for bodybuilders? Yes!
For "drug free" bodybuilders, it means that you have got to stay away from this high dosage of Clen. On the other hand, for steroid users, it is unfortunately a very interesting property. Ten years ago, I would not have made such a statement. Almost all the anabolic steroids were still available and one could choose the ones that suited him best. Saying that such a choice does not exist anymore would be an understatement. Prices and availability are inversely progressing. Testosterone is again the steroid of choice (because of a lack of choice). The main problem with testosterone is that after a while a user experiences more and more trouble getting sore while on it. Of course, it depends on the dosage and the capacity of the user to transform the male hormone into female hormones (aromatization).
You see, estrogens protect our muscles from damage. This is good in every sport except bodybuilding. Potent anti-aromatase drugs do exist but their prices prohibit their use. Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) will exert an estrogen-like activity on muscle (and fat too) in many people, which is going to reduce their capacity for muscle growth while helping them to get fat.
Why do we want some muscle damage to occur because of training, simply, because our muscle cells are internally able to manufacture very potent growth factors such as IGF, FGF, Prostaglandins and probably GH too, in case of damage. The more steroids one uses, the higher this manufacturing capacity should be. Furthermore, steroids increase the muscle’s sensitivity to the anabolic actions of those growth factors. This is a shame, since most of those growth factors will only be released (and therefore become active) if the muscle membrane experiences some damage. Training acts like a robber who opens the vault where the growth factors are hidden. Because of the estrogens, this beneficial effect of training is attenuated. Clen can act like this robber to unleash the growth factors. How do we manage this?
This makes perfect sence to me as at this very moment I am using clen with no steroids and am loosing muscle rapidly. Also after each workout my muscles are sore for days
For the last few cycles on Test I have not been able to get my muscles sore no matter how hard I have trained them. So what the guy above describes I have and am experiencing.
Below is an excert from an article on Clenbuterol, and it really does make sence to me.
Is Clen catabolic? Can this actually help us grow?
This may sound even stranger after what I just said but Clen can truly be a catabolic drug, too. At low dosage, it will go unnoticed. But past a certain amount (equivalent of 15-20 tablets of 20 mcg) chances are you are going to get sore by using Clen. Scientific research in humans demonstrates a potent catabolic effect of Clen as reflected by a rise of serum creatine kinase level. This means that Clen is attacking our muscle cells a bit like heavy training does.
Sound bad?
No!
Is it of any use for bodybuilders? Yes!
For "drug free" bodybuilders, it means that you have got to stay away from this high dosage of Clen. On the other hand, for steroid users, it is unfortunately a very interesting property. Ten years ago, I would not have made such a statement. Almost all the anabolic steroids were still available and one could choose the ones that suited him best. Saying that such a choice does not exist anymore would be an understatement. Prices and availability are inversely progressing. Testosterone is again the steroid of choice (because of a lack of choice). The main problem with testosterone is that after a while a user experiences more and more trouble getting sore while on it. Of course, it depends on the dosage and the capacity of the user to transform the male hormone into female hormones (aromatization).
You see, estrogens protect our muscles from damage. This is good in every sport except bodybuilding. Potent anti-aromatase drugs do exist but their prices prohibit their use. Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) will exert an estrogen-like activity on muscle (and fat too) in many people, which is going to reduce their capacity for muscle growth while helping them to get fat.
Why do we want some muscle damage to occur because of training, simply, because our muscle cells are internally able to manufacture very potent growth factors such as IGF, FGF, Prostaglandins and probably GH too, in case of damage. The more steroids one uses, the higher this manufacturing capacity should be. Furthermore, steroids increase the muscle’s sensitivity to the anabolic actions of those growth factors. This is a shame, since most of those growth factors will only be released (and therefore become active) if the muscle membrane experiences some damage. Training acts like a robber who opens the vault where the growth factors are hidden. Because of the estrogens, this beneficial effect of training is attenuated. Clen can act like this robber to unleash the growth factors. How do we manage this?
This makes perfect sence to me as at this very moment I am using clen with no steroids and am loosing muscle rapidly. Also after each workout my muscles are sore for days
For the last few cycles on Test I have not been able to get my muscles sore no matter how hard I have trained them. So what the guy above describes I have and am experiencing.
