taking winny while having endometriosis????

[jenabena]

i have posted this in the women's forum and no one really has answered. i didn't know if anyone knew the effects winny will have on me since i do have endometriosis???? i am bloated from it and i know that winny makes you hold water, however didn't know what else it would cause? thanks for any info!

 

[Joester]

Sorry for asking, but I'm not up on all the abbreviations....winny is...?

 

[jenabena]

Sorry for asking, but I'm not up on all the abbreviations....winny is...?

winstrol....

 

[Joester]

Sorry for the delay [my laptop picked up a virus and screwed my modem up].
Stanozolol [Winstrol] can also cause liver toxicity if the dosage gets high, so careful with it.
Being an anabolic steroid, it also can cause virilization effects in women.

Hope I helped.

 

[Belle]

Hello,

Looking up winstrol, and the sides you get from it, I would not recommend such if you have endometriosis. Since winstrol will also raise estrogen levels (they are raised via the testosterone route) then it would not be a good idea to my mind. I have endometriosis myself so I know enough about it to know that estrogen levels being higher would aggravate the endo some, but it all depends on how your menstrual cycle reacts to the drug.

Do you know anyone whom has tried winstrol and can tell you what effect it had on their menstrual cycle? The problem with many of the anabolic steroids is the sides that kick in "after" testosterone levels have elevated as I say, and unless winstrol actually reduces menstuation and lessens estrogen (which I doubt) then I guess you could have a nasty flare up. Even if you go symptom free, when you stop the drug, I'd imagine there would be a bad flare up as your body cycles back into the estrogen phase of your menstrual cycle. I take vitex for the endo and it keeps my hormones balanced.

The other side-effects to winstrol don't particularly appeal to me:

Excess hair growth on the body (as in hirsutism) and loss of hair on the scalp (not as common in women but nevertheless can happen if your on it for long enough), unusual tirdness, mental depression, irregular menstrual cycle, hoarseness or deepening of voice, enlarged clitoris and acne or oily skin. Rarer side-effects are:

Headache, hives, stomach ache,loss of appetite and unexplained weight loss ( now that I could suffer with lolol) unpleasant breath odour (maybe ketosis?) bone pain, vomiting, swelling of feet of lower legs or unsual weight gain (more likely muscle?)

 

[jenabena]

Thank you for responding.... A friend of mine did take winny and she stopped her period and she had no reactions, however with me being very bloated all the time i didn't know what it would do to my system. Tell me more about vitex???? i have had 2 sugeries and the lupron shot for my endo and i have not heard of that drug????

 

[Belle]

Hi again,

If it stopped her period, I'm wondering if it was very similar to being on the lupron itself. I don't think we can get the lupron here in NZ and even if we could, I don't really like the idea of the side effects to that at all. As far as I knew the lupron worked by blocking estrogen. That you got similar side effects to the winstrol but that it can block estrogen completely and the unwanted side effects of that are bone density loss and heart problems?

Anyway, my Doctor prescribed Provera pills, but I would not take them as I won't mess with synthetic progestins either. The problem with those are they cause depression for me. As much as I hate the endo flare ups, I don't need the depression and other side effects with the pill. I 40yo and had my tube tied three years ago and won't start taking pills now.

Anyway, I read a lot and found a lot of information about Vitex which is a natural supplement that is available over the counter at herbal shops. Also known as chasteberries. I buy it in capsule or tincture form. The tincture works out slightly more expensive than the capsules. I pay $22.00 NZ for 100 400mg capsules and I take one capsule before bed at night. Vitex raises luteinising hormone via the pituitary and as a consequence your natural progesterone levels are raised and it then lowers excess estrogen. I had very bad bloating every month but since taking that I havn't had a problem.

The bloating is due to excess estrogen. In the first few weeks that I took vitex my symptoms of bloating became worse because your cells become very estrogen sensitive when you first start to take it, and then everything settles down after your period--which for me was less crampy and bothersome. After that my periods got lighter, and no bloating as such. It is an adaptogen and balances hormones. If you arn't making enough estrogen, when the progesterone levels rise, it will raise them via the HPA axis (estrogen is made after testosterone in the hormone cascade also) via negative feedback. If your making too much and have estrogen dominance, then vitex will raise the progesterone levels and balance the two and also lower excess estrogen. It kind of balances things as they should be. To see good benefits usually it can take about 2-3 months but I saw them right away--apart from the bloating in the first 2-3 that I mention. I've heard that a lot of women stop taking it because they get the symptoms worsening for a short period, but like anything "adaptogen" wise, you need to have some patience.

I now have bought 1/2 pound vitex berries from my health food store $25.00, (NZ) and will be grinding those up into powder and dosing myself with that instead when I've worked my way through this last batch of tablets. Either that or make a tincture. You'll find it in tincture or tablet form at the health food store though. I also raised my vit C and e intake and cut back on saturated fat as I had upped my animal protein to what I feel now are abnormal levels for my blood type, and I have never been one to consume so much in the way of protein like that. It just caused too many problems. I use soy protein isolate now, which also helps to balance excess estrogen by the way and has been touted as helping with endometriosis also.

PS:

Take it at night time as progesterone levels are naturally elevated at night time, and you will not need as high a dose if you take it then and it will be working for you at a time of day when you need it most. It's said to be very good for improving bone density in women and raising low testosterone levels in men. Good for men that have just done a steroid cycle and need to get their hormones balanced again.

 

[Belle]

My endo is related to my caesarean ops. My uterus is adhered to the superior aspect of my bladder after surgeries and I'm waiting for a laparoscopy eua hysteroscopy to separate/explore those. I have all the symtoms of endo for two weeks in four but my bladder is also badly affected each month too now and it causes UTI's or the sensation that I have a UTI monthly. My Doctor scripted amitriptyline for me to take at those times (anti depressant) as it blocks pain in the bladder and also relaxes the muscles of the bladder and is used for women with interstitial cystitis also. So I start to take that and NSAIDS on the 26th day of my cycle two days before my symptoms start to crop up.

As you'll know you need to take NSAIDS 'before' the pain occurs as once prostaglandins have been released, NSAIDS cannot block prostaglandins already released. That can make for an uncomfortable time for me as my uterus is boggy and the cramps affect my bladder. However, if you take them before the anticipated pain crops up, then it can prevent them from being released a lot of the time. Another good one we can get here is Tramadol but it is expensive. I had that stuff in hospital and that was the best pain killer I have ever had. Those measures and the vitex seems to be working well for me at the moment. I'm dreading the surgical procedures though, but if I don't have them done at this rate my bladder will deteriorate and it's getting tiresome paying the Doctor for the same problem all the time.

 

[Belle]

I know this may be a lot to take in but if you have read a lot about endo, you'll know basically that a lot of the pain is caused by adhesions in the pelvis from tissue that has bled, as it causes organs or tissue to matt together.

Basically some people are ok after surgery and recover well, and others don't and they have done a lot of research into this. Apparently, women whom are less likely to recover and to form adhesions as a result of the op (which can often be the source of pain-not endo) again are those that don't get active after surgery and whom have poor circulation and inflammation/infection post op. So they reckon now that a course of anti biotics immediately following surgery for a week prevents infections. For the inflammation, women should take NSAIDS for up to two weeks after surgery (from immediately after) to keep inflammation down.

The adhesions are formed by fibrous tissue which attaches itself to other surfaces. This tissue is formed by fibrinogen, and if your levels of fibrinogen are higher after the op, then you have more chance of forming adhesions from where the surgeon has cut tissue out--as he creates a raw surface. Apparently lasering the surface after cutting also causes inflammation and the surgeon must therefor avoid lasering everything in site and just cauterise the major bleeding areas only.

Now in my research, I do know that one natural supplement you can take which reduces inflammation AND infection AND actually eats at dead tissue such as adhesions and fibrin os Bromelain. High doses (500mg) three days prior to surgery and up to 2-3 weeks after surgery, will lower and keep the levels of fibrinogen down. Also bromelain (preotease enzyme) increases blood circulation, so it speeds healing. You can also take bromelain with quercetin and they both reduce inflammation better than NSAIDS it has been found.

There is a good article here:

http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Womens Health/price62.htm

I plan to take bromelain prior to surgery and for several months afterwards to help with my healing. Bromelain is from the pineapple stem, and you can eat raw pineapple, but the canned variety is said not to have the enzyme in due to the heat cans are exposed to in processing. I think you'll fiind that if you research key words like fibrinogen and bromelain together, you will find a ton come up that you can research and chase up for your future reference should you need surgery again.

I think it is just a case of arming yourself with the knowledge and working at prevention. That and getting a good surgeon who will work at removing as much of the endo as possible. I do wonder though if bromelain would actually help to reduce endometriosis because apparently the protease enzyme eats any type of dead tissue in your body--and has a positive effect on circulation anyway--so to my mind that has got to be good where ridding yourself of excess estrogen from the liver is concerned.

 

[Joester]

Belle:
Interesting post, and very enlightening stuff on the Bromelain. I was not aware of this, is it more mainstream in NZ? I will run this by Muscle-Doc, who's a OB-GYN, and see his input.
Sorry 'bout the adhesions, I can only speculate how tuff it must be, and hope the ampiltryptiline helps out. Good luck finding the proper surgeon, it can make all the diff with something like endometriosis, which is a problem to deal with anyway.
I have always said that an informed patient can be like dealing with a specialist many times, since they can become experts on their condition, and this is good, since more researching can only help the cause.
Good luck.

 

[jenabena]

God! Thank you so much for all the info...i am 29 and have had 2 surgeries and it seemed to work after them for about 6 months and that is it. i have taken the lupron and the side effects were awful! it actually puts you in menopause, so i had the mood swings and hot flashes something awful! i am going to check on the vitex and see what my dr. says. i did take that progesterone pills, and like you i went into depression! i cried every 20 min. and i have no idea why!!! i just don't want anything to effect me like that again! now that i am off the shot, i have not started my period back yet so i have had minimal pain if any! That is the first time in forever that i have not constantly hurt! i know once my system goes back to normal and i start my period all the problems will begin and i want to stop if before it starts! i am going to take this post with me to my dr. bc he know i research and read to find the best possible antidote! (however i am going to leave the part about winstrol out! lol!!!) Thanks again for all the great info!

 

[Belle]

Sorry it took so long to get back and post. To answer Joester, no, the bromelain is not exclusive to New Zealand. I guess I just research things to death and things crop up and take me off in directions I never thought that I'd end up. LOL! If you goto Pubmed and put bromelain and fibrinogen together, it throws up studies. What happened was I did a search on endometriosis and found a lot of info on Obgyn.net about how endo is formed and that the other complication after endo has been removed is adhesions, but that they don't always occur in all women post op.

Anyway I got to thinking that it had to be something to do with inflammation and infections as I had two post op infections and healing is delayed. That and the fact that I have recently read "Eat Right 4 Your Blood Type and had studied what diseases I am susceptible to as a blood type A and what foods can aggravate and cause problems for me. Anyway the book goes into depth about lectins and how a blood type A's blood is thicker than a blood type O's blood and that they are more susceptible to blood clots, and arterial plaque because their blood flows more slowly through the arteries. Not only this but they have lower stomach acid and cannot digest meat as readily. So a higher protein diet in the way of animal meat for instance and less fibre would result in would result in not only blood becoming more acidic (type A's have the highest acidity--or err on over acid blood unless they eat lots of vegies to balance the PH) and slowing down thus further. Fatal when you consider it because if they don't cut the saturated fat it also makes them very prone to heart problems and arthritis due to poor circulation.

To cut a long story short I just searched my blood type book for the best thing to improve circulation "supplement" wise and Bromelain cropped up. I did some reasearch on bromelain on the web, and checked on Pubmed also:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=2203073

To me it all added up. Others had already tried it it seemed too. Doing some more research by just putting in Bromelain and quecetin I was able to establish that they both reduce inflammation so I went to the Health food store and bought both supplements and tried it on one flare up and it reduced the symptoms completely. There is one supplement put out by Solgar that has quercetin and bromelain both together and thats the one I tried. Two capsules twice per day. Anti inflamatories don't work for me much if I dont take them before a flare up, and that particular month I had vomiting and diahorea for two days and didn't get my vitex and other supplements down and due to the drop in Progesterone, my period came earlier (day 21) and I think because I had been ill and at a low ebb I had a very bad attack. I just think I became desperate to look at other alternatives enough to search them out. All I can say is the quercetin and bromelain in high doses completely obliterated my symptoms as I could not take anti inflammatories as I had a weak stomach due to vomiting and felt I needed to take something that would both help me recover from that and address my endo. Up to that point I had dne research on Bromelain but I like anyone else had read it and thought to myself, "Nahh, it sounds to far fetched." But I now feel that is why some women recover well from having endo removed and some don't and why it comes back. I just always have the bromelain and quercetin on standby now.

Obviously if I took every supplement they recommended I'd rattle, so I just take that one when needed and use basic measures as maintenance such as following a good diet as per the blood type diet. It really has worked for me a lot and drastically reduced my symptoms to more a copable level and I only have the odd bad flare up now when I have been run down or ill. Saying that this last week I had a cold and new my period was due so I blasted myself with 3000mg vit c and some echinacea (1000mg per day) and also garlic and parsley tabs and that heped me cope with the cold, my period has come and gone no problems. I think you just need to really make sure your body is getting what it needs when you fall ill, and take it easy on yourself. A few months ago I would have battled on and just done workouts right through having a cold etc and run myself into the ground, and then bam--period crops up and my body of course didn't cope very well.

I now just make sure I never workout until I am fully recovered and I do cardio that is working more towards slow and long (walking) so that my cortisol levels arn't so high that my immune system ends up wrecked. It does make a huge difference.

 

[Belle]

With blood type A because of the blood flowing more slowly and being thicker (more susceptible to clots also) there is less flow to extremeties and it can delay healing of joints and injuries involving cartilage and bone. Because their blood is over acidic, and the basal cortisol levels are higher they heal more slowly and of course I am now convinced that their fibrinogen levels are higher than say that of a type O, whose blood is thin and they have the opposite problem and can sometimes have problems stopping bleeding and getting wounds to clot. Of course type o's have higher stomach acid and lower cortisol levels so they make great body builders because they can merely eat a high protein diet, rich in meat, eat virtually NO veggies and survive without getting problems. Their blood errs on over alkaline and they NEED to acidify their blood some so eating a high meat diet helps and eating alkaline forming foods and fibre can speed digestion up so quickly, they feel hungry and suffer from bad acid indigestion problems as their stomachs over produce acid with that type of diet. Not to say they cannot be vegetarians but I guess they would have to watch what they ate as much as a type A would. I am convinced thats why keto works for some and not others and why some people take longer to recover from workouts than others. Blood type.

 

[Belle]

I don't know if I explained but the reason he suggests bromelain in the book is because it not only aids digestion for type A's (with low stomach acid), but it is believed that the enzyme is beneficial at blood level also (protease enzyme) and it has a thinning effect on blood as well as a weakening effect on plaque or dead tissue. It kind of acts like a chelator if you will and gradually washes away the dead tissues as well as increasing circulation and also acts as an anti-inflammatory also. Dead tissue is such stuff as arterial plaque, fat, toxins, fibrin and scar tissue that have formed internally. It also prevents such forming because of it's actions on the blood. Because it increases circulation to extremeties, it aids with healing of joints and helps to transport nutrients to joints and muscles better as does gingko biloba and ginger etc.
Don't know if I mentioned above...do a search on chelation and bromelain and that may throw up a better range of what bromelain does for you. I reckon that the EDTA treatment "chelation" would help type A's a lot and make them a little more resistant to the diseases that crop up more for them than a type O. In the book studies are shown that illustrate percentage wise what your chances are of getting a certain disease with your individual blood type based on data that has been kept medically tying certain diseases to blood types concerned.

It makes for a good read and you can also go to the Blood Type site and read a few articles there without splashing out big time on the books.

Also fI should mention that I have had inflammation on and off in my shoulder for 6 months -- rotator cuff problems and have been doing a lot of over head work and last week I started to take glucosamine but I also added tablets that have gingko biloba and ginger in them and the latter two have increased my circulation so much to the joint that the glucosamine has virtually reduced my pain to nil this week. So I really do believe there is something in his theories myself. I just think it would have taken longer had I not looked at increasing my circulation to give myself an edge on things.

 

[suk1978]

a friend of mine has/had endo..i'm pretty sure one of the options for her "treatment"in the uk was testosterone and or a hystorectomy. both of which were too extreme for her so she suffered for 12 years until recently shes had the op.
however, back to the winny/endo thing i'll ask her and get back to you, see if i can find out what form of testosterone would have been provided