switching to single ester mid-cycle

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Hello Gents...Im helping a friend train heading into a competition in about 2 months. Currently hes running 500mg of Sust and 500mg of EQ. 30 plus yrs old fantastic physique but new to perf enhancers. So, hes not real happy with the results of the Sust. Been on for about 8 weeks now. My question is, if he had access to Enanthate and began taking a single ester now would it harm his levels in any way. I mean he is already getting this compound via the sust. But he read that many, many pros prefer the Enanthate over sust. Given that his levels are already elevated..would/could he see an improvement by taking 500mg of the single ester? Thanks

 

[ballslee]

I would not change the ester until switching to Prop. I would think he would want to switch to Prop before the competition because it has less water retention associated with it.

Why is he not satisfied? Does he have water retention?....is he using an AI?

what is his height, weight, BF?

I would say, heading into a competition that I would probably run a lot different cycle.......

 

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hes 225, 6'..not anything crazy in regards to water retention...using an AI but from many Ive spoken with 500mg of sust is not enough for many. The majority of those who use it mentioned they saw much better results running in much higher doses.

 

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Goal was to run prop, winny into the show...Im just wondering if with 2 months left he may see better results with 500mg of say Enanthate v.s. 500 mg of sust.

 

[ballslee]

well i would run the prop for 8 weeks heading into the show aka 2 months......
Sus at 500mg is plenty, and the enanthate ester isn't going to change much in that regard.

i would try:
1-8 test prop 100mg EOD
1-8 Masteron 200mg EOD
3-8 Winstrol Orals 50mg EOD
1-8 Aromasin 12.5 ED playing with the dosages to see how he reacts right up to the show...probably 25mg ED (but be careful about lack of estrogen

and continue using the EQ the whole time

 

[JoeBlob]

well i would run the prop for 8 weeks heading into the show aka 2 months......
Sus at 500mg is plenty, and the enanthate ester isn't going to change much in that regard.

i would try:
1-8 test prop 100mg EOD
1-8 Masteron 200mg EOD
3-8 Winstrol Orals 50mg EOD
1-8 Aromasin 12.5 ED playing with the dosages to see how he reacts right up to the show...probably 25mg ED (but be careful about lack of estrogen

and continue using the EQ the whole time

Wait... why so much Aromasin? Maybe I missed something but 12.5mg eod is plenty... even if he's trying to cut all water out I wouldn't go over 12.5mg ed.

 

[adsinaction]

Thx for the input. Def running the Eq throughout and add Winny in for sure..prob start on the lower spectrum of Aromasin. The biggest question wasthe switch from Sust to Enanthate. More and more Im speaking with friends who compete that have switched to singel esters.

 

[ballslee]

Yes, the reason I said switch to Prop ester is because it is a shorter half life and has less water retention associated....it is ideal for going into a competition.
enanthate is used by most on this board in bulking cycles, but heading into a competition it would not give any advantage over Sust (they are both long esters.....with sus having short esters, but the bulk of it is longer esters)
basically, it would waste a lot of time switching esters like that, when you really need to switch to a short ester precomp


joeblob is said that about aromasin because it has been my experience that 12.5 ED is not enough. It was for me in the beginning, but now i am doing 25 ED and it is perfect for me. That is actually the dosage recommended by the makers of aromasin, and it is suggested by several places to play with your dosing to see what suits you best.
I also said that, to play with the dosage so that right into the show you can get all the water out with ease. 25mg will certainly do that the week of the show.

EQ also has long esters, and can create bloat....some people say cut that out 2 weeks before the show....short esters 1 week before

 

[notjake11]

well i would run the prop for 8 weeks heading into the show aka 2 months......
Sus at 500mg is plenty, and the enanthate ester isn't going to change much in that regard.

i would try:
1-8 test prop 100mg EOD
1-8 Masteron 200mg EOD
3-8 Winstrol Orals 50mg EOD
1-8 Aromasin 12.5 ED playing with the dosages to see how he reacts right up to the show...probably 25mg ED (but be careful about lack of estrogen

and continue using the EQ the whole time

Why the drop in dosing from the current 500mg of test to teh 350mg he'll get at this dose? Wouldn't 150mg eod keep him closer too the same dosing?

Not intended as a critique - learning more and more about AAS so asking out of curiosity and to expand my own knowledge.

 

[adsinaction]

well this is where I think a lot of it comes down to trial an error. Some guys hold a lot of water, some dont..I know plenty of guys that run there full cycles straight through. So it sounds like there really is not much benefit switching to a single ester at this point( save that for the next show ). Assuming the diet is coming along well and water retention is in check...do you really think he would need to run prop and masteron? Or would he be ok running the Sust straight through but adding some Winstrol?? thank for the input guys this is all helpful

 

[JoeBlob]

Ballslee- ok I got you... 12.5 eod is plenty for me I usually end up doing 12.5 every 4 or 5 days towards the end of my cycle. Like you said everyone is different and it doesn't take long to find your sweet spot with just Test.

OP if he's not happy with 500mg of Sust (and he's new to steroids) it's probably really underdosed... If I were him I would switch to Prop, and just run 150mg eod... Not gonna do much with just switching from Sust to Enanthate unless of course it's a different brand and is correctly dosed... Also Winny would be a good add in.

 

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again thank you guys..good advice

 

[ballslee]

Why the drop in dosing from the current 500mg of test to teh 350mg he'll get at this dose? Wouldn't 150mg eod keep him closer too the same dosing?

Not intended as a critique - learning more and more about AAS so asking out of curiosity and to expand my own knowledge.

well you have to account for the esters notjake. that 350mg of prop is actually about equal to 500mg of test after the ester is cleaved. I have done the conversion previously, and 200mg of prop is similarly close to 1000mg of Test E.

I would say the benefit of switching to prop would be because of stopping injectables before the show. long esters need to be stopped 2 weeks ahead of time, and short esters 1 week ahead of time. you can get closer to the show on a short ester.....but other than that, not much of a benefit. plus sust has all of those different esters, so although water retention may be under control now....it could not be at a later point.you stop the injects before the show so there is not oil in the muscle that is visible.

I would run mast and winny both in there, but that is just me. but is this his first cycle? Sometimes not a good idea to do a show on a first cycle, better to see how the body reacts to the cycle ahead of time.....but adjusting on the fly, and you have only 8 weeks left i would add in short esters that will give you some bang for your buck. if this isn't his first cycle, then id add in tren. but mast is safer, and really gets you hard, grainy and vascular. combined with winny/var should be complete shreddddddedness