Stirring the Pot...

[Temple]

DO NOT USE GEAR UNTIL YOU HAVE REACHED YOUR FULL NATURAL POTENTIAL!!!

What is that????
It seems to me that we often use that statement like a mantra - moreso when it comes to men that women but I have heard it applied to both. There seems to be this undercurrent that if you "use" before you have done everything possible naturally that you have in some way cheated. Now, granted you will never gain again like you do from your first cycle and I am not recommending that we hand people a bottle of Ox the minute they walk thru the gym doors for the first time. If you have competitve aspirations what you do on the front end can dramatically effect what you have to do on the back end and so prolonging it would make sense but that is not what I am talking about.
There are many men and women who just want to look good, they do not want the mass of Andrula and Ronnie. They probably started with damn high bodyfat and no much muscle because at least for women they had starved it off at some point in their life.

So, once the diet and training are in order, why not let them use a little ox? It is going to help them keep the muscle and even add some as they strip the fat. If everything is in order they will have the body that they want in far less time than it would take to do it "naturally". As long as they understand what's what why does it matter so much.

For some this is a sport - it is about the journey. For others it is simply about looking damn hot at the beach and for the latter crowd is the journey that damn important? We all know that the gear won't do it for you but it can make the whole process a hell of alot easier...


There you have it - my Sat. a.m. devil's advocate speech...
Now somebody rip this one apart PLEASE!!!

 

[luvs2workout]

Temple ---

I agree with your post and Im sure most of the board members will also.....but In my past experience - I was called RUDE, Jealous , even called a "hater" for speaking my mind on this issue....People want what they want and they wanted it yesterday, so now I keep my mouth shut - its thier body anyway

 

[Sassy69]

It seems that the context of the mantra " Don't do AS until you reach your full potential" usually comes in response to something like "My girl just started working out but wants to get lean but not get bulky." or "I've been lifting for six months but I'm not getting results." or even worse "I have access to just about anything, what should I take?". This is the sign of someone who has no idea about training, diet or anything else. A blanket response like "Don't do it until you reach your full potential" is appropriate and even generous considering a sufficient answer is "NO, dont' be stupid." The idea trying to be conveyed is, sure you can toss back some anavar and wait to see what happens. But if the diet & training aren't in line, the AS may not necessarily get you the results you want and for the cost, it may actually cause other problems.

I guess to a certain degree, its good to promote at least a low level of "fear" of AS to keep away the peeps who don't take the time to understand it and for those who decide to pursue, to respect it alittle more than just a "diet drug". It can definitely help, but it shouldn't be a substitute for discipline, diet & training.

As far as how you determine when you are at your "full potential", that's obviously a personal decision because no one can keep you from popping that first pill or shooting that first pin. But its sort of like being honest with yourself about when you "earned" the right to use it - do you totally understand what you are putting in your body (not what your b/f told you to take), do you know what you should expect from it, do you know what you need to do to get those results (diet, training), are you willing to not drink while doing the cycle, are you willing to get the sleep you need to get the most out of your cycle?

THEN.... can you say that you have seriously tried training & dieting and been patient about it? If you think you are gonna lose a bunch of weight because you started lifting the little pink wieghts, um.... think again. Diet means keeping the diet tight and consistent for MORE than 3 weeks.

It seems that a lot about use of AS have to do with expectations and also sort of skipping around respecting this chemical that can make serious changes to your body that may or may not be what you want. The thing about your body is that there are no quick fixes and accepting the fact that slow, natural, longer-term changes will stay with you with better results & less negative impact to your body. Not to say that you can't get these results from AS, but then you have to deal with maintaining it, the mood swings, the sides, etc.

"Full potential" is a personal call, but I think ultimately it means that you can honestly say that you have reviewed the pros & cons, are willing to take the risks and also follow the "rules" (clean diet, no drinking, etc.) but also can honestly say that you dont' think you are cheating yourself out of working what you have to see what you can do without it, and are thinking in the long term.

(A little preachy? Hope not. Its a very hard thing to quantify because there are no set points at which you make this decision or not.)

 

[Arioch]

I will try to offer a different perspective on why women (and everyone else) should wait a while before the use of AAS.

Disclaimer: I am not against their use, as I was both an athlete and coach long before the Anabolic Steroid Control Act turned a great many athletes into liars.

One reason women should wait is that many women are not used to progressive resistance training in any manner, let alone in a serious an productive manner. It takes quite a while to not only learn which exercises will produce the desired effects, but also the effects of resistance training and the woman's respones to training when dieting vs. bulking. Also, when a plateau is encountered, the first things to change should always be diet and training, and if any form of AAS is introduced at this point, it can lead to the belief that the only way to improve when obstacles are encountered is through the use of AAS.

The process of learning even the basics takes years, and premature use of AAS can also lead to the use of AAS as a crutch instead of alterations at the most basic level. AAS can cover up a lot of mistakes, such as allowing someone to train with much higher volume than they could tolerate naturally, cover dieting screw-ups, and allow unreal aspectations as to how quickly both strength and LBM gains can be achieved.

Everyone should be able to train for years before they begin to use AAS, because use can quickly turn to reliance, when the one thing the athlete should always be able to rely on is their own performance.

 

[starfish]

I like this post a lot!! I hope everyone answers it..

I'm not sure how I feel about the subject because it seems like I see conflicting stuff sometimes... And I don't want to offend anyone.. Hence, I basically post little comments here and there but keep everything else to myself.

There does seem to be a lot of intimidation about posting here.

I have seen several ladies here with amazing results.. Some who trained for years and then did AS, some did AS right up front, some are all natural.. They all probably would have done a few things different but they were all happy and looked GREAT!

So, is one way better than the other??

 

[Temple]

This thread has been viewed 80 times and has 4 responses. Come on people - what is your opinion?????

Here is another one - does age factor into when a person should consider use? Should the "rules" be different for a 40 year old as opposed to a 20 year old?

 

[hardbdygrl]

IMO if you do not have any interest in ever competing in the sport of bodybuilding, there really is no need for that person to take any form of AS.


You CAN have the body you ever so desier. IT just takes a little time, dedication and will power. Im not saying that everyone is Lazy per say,,but when u hear people say "ooh i have been working out for 2 yrs and i have not seen anyresults" WEll you need to sit down and ask yourself WHY!! Dont just think OH well ill just use some AS that way i will definitly see results. It dosent work that way.

Again you can take all the AS you want, but if you do not train properly and eat properly your still not going to see results.

If you have not put the proper time into getting the diet right,, train properly, weather you have a trainer or learn for yourself, and you do not push your self eversingle day in the gym then you do not know what your body is capable of doing. Everyday people who succeed now how to train their selves and their minds to get past plataues and keep making gains.

But like luvstoworkout said,,,,its thier body, people want what they want when they want it. So no matter what u tell them they are going to do it.

There is another thread on the boards posted by a 16yr old male who wants to take steroids. Now how can someone say that it is ok for him to take them, Obviously his body has just begun to grow. His muscle are far from maturing So that is the difference btwn a 20yr old and a 40yr old.

 

[starfish]

Personally, If I ever take AS. It will be for myself.

I don't understand why people think you should take AS if you want to compete in BB. I would never take it to win at something or in order to compete with other people. It will be for myself..

If it's only good for people who compete.. Then this board would have A LOT less members.. Well, male members anyway.

 

[MS]

I'm also surprised there's so few responses to this thread. This topic is usually a really nice controvery spinner!

AAS are just drugs. With that in mind, I guess a better question would be "when is it OK to take drug X??? IMHO, this depends entirely on the goals of the individual within the context of the society they live in. The rules or ethos are different in America compared to, say, Holland, Greece or a fundamentally Muslim country. In Holland, anything goes, in Greece you can buy AAS OTC, and in some muslim countries a shot of whiskey will get ya stoned to death! In America, AAS will get ya in legal trouble. So legality is one issue which has nothing to do with "are you ready for this drug".

Let's compare AAS to sleeping pills. There is no question that there are some people that get a great deal of benefit from both short term and long term use of these drugs. If you're perfectly healthy but take a little while to drop off to sleep, you may be tempted to try sleeping pills. Keep in mind that you were perfectly healthy to begin with, and were still getting plenty of sleep, but you were just in a hurry to drop off and didn't want to go through normal "sleep hygeine" procedures to get there. You can easily get 'hooked' on sleeping pills, to the point that your body/brain is no longer able to sleep properly without them. You can come to view this type of sleeping arrangement as normal, and go through some physically and pshycologically hellish withdrawals if you try to stop the sleeping pills.

Not everyone gets this hooked on sleeping pills that they didn't really need in the first place, nor does everyone become a juice junkie for life once they've started using AAS. But it's a hang of a lot easier to get to sleep with sleeping pills than without. It's also a lot easier to gain muscle with AAS than without.

A better choice would to ONLY take sleeping pills when you're suffering from true insomnia, and only take them for a short course while you work out (and correct) the cause of the insomnia.

Aside from speeding things up (which is what the majority of women on this board appear to use AAS for), there is a minority of women who's goals are to attain superphysiological levels of leaness and muscularity. This is impossible without AAS/GH.

The question of age is not a bodybuilding question in my opinion. If you're a harcore BB then you take AAS whenever you feel you need it. This is entirely different to the medical use of AAS to bring the hormone profiles of older folks back up to 'normal' levels. The normal level usually being taken as that of a 25 year old.

Personally I have reached a stage in my training where I think I may need AAS just to MAINTAIN my physique. I'm 43 years old and have been training and eating properly for a while now. I could have achieved my current physique much earlier in life if I had used AAS, but I was not in a hurry to get anywhere. Now the question is "to age gracefully (ie lose muscle/gain fat) or to take AAS"?

 

[Sassy69]

MS's post prompted a thought --- drugs in general either help w/ a pain of some sort, or recreationally, make you feel good. AS makes you feel good (in the sense that you find you all of a sudden have incredible increases in strength, but may also introduce some funky mood swings...) but you also look good --

Recreational drugs can become chemically addictive, I don't know if AS can become addicting like that. But I think the appearance results can become addiciting in almost the same way.

One interesting thing about this whole thread is that, yes we do all constantly restate that AS should be used only after you reach your full potential, except it seems that a large % of the people on here are not following that and have simply decided that they are ready to do it. So, how bad can it be??? I think its valid to use the "fear factor" a little so at least when people come on here saying "I want to do a cycle, what do i need?", they will at least realize its a little more serious than just popping a ocuple of aspirin. I think we are primarily trying to promote the idea that people should do their "due diligence" if they really want to do it -- actually even just go into the whole thing to get the facts so they can make an intelligent decision about it, and not go in convinced they want to take AS before they really know what it will do. (E.g. "My girl wants to take anavar to lose weight")

So I guess considering this, when do you decide to take AS (at least as far as what I see the kind folks on this board trying to promote):

- when you have a fairly thorough understanding of the pros, cons, sides, training, etc.
- when you are already have good training & diet habits and have actually understood that it takes more than just 2 months of commitment to it
- when you feel you are responsible & committed enough to follow the diet & training for maximum results (e.g. dont' drink, get your sleep, train like a mofo)
- when the use of AS matches your purpose / goal (e.g. competition, improved results, maintaining after a certain age, etc.)
- probably one of the most important things about AS --- more isn't better. I think for some there is just a certain thrill related to the popping of the pills or shooting of the liquid, and to get results, it is still back to your diet & training - not extra shots or pills.