Started new cycle today...

[goateater]

wk 1-4 Dbol 40mg
wk 1-10 Test E 600mg
wk 8-12 Winny 50mg

Takin 10mg Nolvadex and a small dose of Letro daily to keep sides at bay.

Wish me luck...

 

[Primordial Performance]

wk 1-4 Dbol 40mg
wk 1-10 Test E 600mg
wk 8-12 Winny 50mg

Takin 10mg Nolvadex and a small dose of Letro daily to keep sides at bay.

Wish me luck...

Cut the nolva out and you should have yourself a good cycle.

-Pp

 

[Selene]

wk 1-4 Dbol 40mg
wk 1-10 Test E 600mg
wk 8-12 Winny 50mg

Takin 10mg Nolvadex and a small dose of Letro daily to keep sides at bay.

Wish me luck...

good luck to you, please share your results with us

 

[jmead]

id suggest dropping the nolva also, just use it if needed.. you should be fine with letro bro, good luck have fun

cutting?

hows the diet look

 

[goateater]

Cut the nolva out and you should have yourself a good cycle.

-Pp

Why? Nolvadex is great for preventing gyno without the harsh sides of an AI.

I'm pretty sensitive to AIs, even on a average dose of Aromasin my libido goes away.

 

[38nStrong]

I have had so much different advice given on the Nolva taking. I am going to take it with any cycle I use Test in. Just why risk the sides. If we know we are susceptible to the estrogen we should use it, Yes??? Other than that good luck and keep us informed.

 

[Primordial Performance]

Why? Nolvadex is great for preventing gyno without the harsh sides of an AI.

I'm pretty sensitive to AIs, even on a average dose of Aromasin my libido goes away.

If your using the letro you will not have an estrogen issue.

Nolva has inherited toxicity issues, and should be used with caution and only during gyno emergency’s. Using nolva continuously in hopes of preventing gyno, is like taking a low amount of chemo-therapy throughout life in hopes of preventing cancer.

More intelligent protocols and planning should be implemented to avoid the potential negative effects.

-Pp

 

[goateater]

If your using the letro you will not have an estrogen issue.

Nolva has inherited toxicity issues, and should be used with caution and only during gyno emergency’s. Using nolva continuously in hopes of preventing gyno, is like taking a low amount of chemo-therapy throughout life in hopes of preventing cancer.

More intelligent protocols and planning should be implemented to avoid the potential negative effects.

-Pp

And Letro doesnt have any "inherited toxicity issues"?

I disagree, Nolvadex has never shown to be liver toxic and in some studies has even shown to improve lipid profiles.

And "potential side effects"? Like what? Bloat maybe? Bloat is an important factor in making strength and muscle gains while on Test. Blood pressure? There are other ways of keeping blood pressure down with vitamins found at a local Wal-Mart.

Comparing Nolvadex as a preventive measure to chemo is a joke. Taking Nolvadex through out cycle is a great way to ensure gyno is not a problem.

Libido for me is an issue and I have used Nolvadex through out every cycle. In some Nolvadex has been shown to lower libido but I am not one of those.

So Nolvadex for me and AI is used when I need it.

 

[Primordial Performance]

And Letro doesnt have any "inherited toxicity issues"?

I disagree, Nolvadex has never shown to be liver toxic and in some studies has even shown to improve lipid profiles.

And "potential side effects"? Like what? Bloat maybe? Bloat is an important factor in making strength and muscle gains while on Test. Blood pressure? There are other ways of keeping blood pressure down with vitamins found at a local Wal-Mart.

Comparing Nolvadex as a preventive measure to chemo is a joke. Taking Nolvadex through out cycle is a great way to ensure gyno is not a problem.

Libido for me is an issue and I have used Nolvadex through out every cycle. In some Nolvadex has been shown to lower libido but I am not one of those.

So Nolvadex for me and AI is used when I need it.

Letrozol has atherogenic issues, but not carcinogenic issues. It’s a mute point though, as your lipid profile is screwed at that high of an AAS dose no mater how much nolva you use. You said you were going to be using letro, so this really negates the need for nolva and only adds a burden.

I guess I wrongly assumed you wanted advice upon posting up your cycle.

FYI, nolva is an established hepatotoxin. Its also potentially detrimental to the prostate because of its metabolism to 4-hydroxytamoxifen. Don’t forget this is the same cancer inducing super-estrogen metabolite for the uterus in women. As you may know, the prostate is the male equivalent to the uterus as it carries the same oncogene, Bcl-2, and the cancer-protector gene. – It also carries the same risk, hence why tamoxifen never made headway with prostate carcinoma treatment. Perhaps the “tumor flare ups” drew red flags.

Nolva may improve lipids, but it increases your chance of thromboembolism (deadly blood clots)

As final icing to the cake, nolva can reduce visual accuracy and induce cataracts.

Its just a heads up my friend.

-Pp



Uterine/prostate cancer –

Tamoxifen treatment and its consequences
Adrian Shulman, Ilan Cohen, Ron Maymon, and Marco M. Altaras
Hum. Reprod., Aug 1995; 10: 2174 - 2175.

Tamoxifen treatment and its consequences
Adrian Shulman, Ilan Cohen, Ron Maymon, and Marco M. Altaras
Hum. Reprod., Aug 1995; 10: 2174 – 2175

Phase II trial of tamoxifen in metastatic carcinoma of the prostate.
JH Glick, A Wein, K Padavic, W Negendank, D Harris, and H Brodovsky
Cancer, Apr 1982; 49(7): 1367-72.

Hapatotoxic & DNA damaging effects -

Epigenetic reprogramming of liver cells in tamoxifen-induced rat hepatocarcinogenesis.
VP Tryndyak, O Kovalchuk, L Muskhelishvili, B Montgomery, R Rodriguez-Juarez, S Melnyk, SA Ross, FA Beland, and IP Pogribny
Mol Carcinog, Mar 2007; 46(3): 187-97

Activation of 4-hydroxytamoxifen and the tamoxifen derivative metabolite E by uterine peroxidase to form DNA adducts: Comparison with DNA adducts formed in the uterus of Sprague-Dawley rats treated with tamoxifen
Deena N. Pathak, Krisztina Pongracz, and William J. Bodell
Carcinogenesis, Sep 1996; 17: 1785 - 1790

Activation of the Tamoxifen Derivative Metabolite E to Form DNA Adducts: Comparison with the Adducts Formed by Microsomal Activation of Tamoxifen
Krisztina Pongracz, Deena N. Pathak, Takemichi Nakamura, Alma L. Burlingame, and William J. Bodell
Cancer Res., Jul 1995; 55: 3012 - 3015.

Nolvadex can greatly increase the risk of thromboembolic disease (blood clots). This was a major concern mentioned by the researchers -

Overview of the main outcomes in breast-cancer prevention trials.
Cuzick J, PowlesT,Veronesi U, et al.
Lancet 2003;361:296^300.

First results from the International Breast Cancer Intervention
Study (IBIS-I): a randomised prevention trial.
Cuzick J, Forbes J, Edwards R, et al.
Lancet 2002;360:817^24.

Ocular toxicity -

Tamoxifen-associated eye disease. A review
SG Nayfield and MB Gorin
J. Clin. Oncol., Mar 1996; 14: 1018 - 1026.

 

[solidspine]

I don’t know what he is saying about nolvedex, I would leave it in there,


I always like something like deca, primo or eq with that cycle, that’s just me,

Should be a nice cycle \\


Good luck.

 

[jmead]

he just posted the studies, nolva throughout hasnt been recommended in a long time on any boards ive seen and those studies make me glad

if your AI sensitive try running a weaker AI like arimidex, or possibly try 1-2 sprays of AIFM ED..