St Thomas Aquinas's Criteria for a Just War

[skaman607]

Do you agree with these? Do you think the US is following them?

1- The war must be to "right a wrong"


2- The war must be winnable. Fighting hopelessly, even against an evil despot, is not justified. Of course, which struggle is winnable and which is not is something best judged with hindsight.


3- The suffering caused, or thought likely to be caused, by the war is goingto be less than the suffering caused by leaving whatever evil you are trying to correct, like a despot on the throne, in place. You want to wage the war

 

[skaman607]

anyone?

 

[skaman607]

no one?

 

[2Thick]

Most people here prescribe to the mantra of "The ends justifies the means."

Sad but true.

 

[skaman607]

sometimes they do, sometimes they don't

 

[2Thick]

Yes, but recently "the interests of a country" have overshadowed the interests of the people.


St Thomas Aquinas was a devout Christian and based his ideas on the old testament. This is the same reason why the Pope is against this war.

 

[skaman607]

so the Pope is against it because this thinking originated from the old testament?

 

[WODIN]

Thomas Aquinas was the first to incorporate dogma with reason, that is his true gift to the ages. He took the fundamental mores in the old testament and applied reason and logic to them and defended the grecian methods of logic and reason against dogmatic attacks.

He attempts to take war and make it a noble cause with these tennants. War is never noble, it is the end result of mishandled diplomacy.

 

[fistfullofsteel]

Do you agree with these? Do you think the US is following them?

1- The war must be to "right a wrong"


2- The war must be winnable. Fighting hopelessly, even against an evil despot, is not justified. Of course, which struggle is winnable and which is not is something best judged with hindsight.


3- The suffering caused, or thought likely to be caused, by the war is goingto be less than the suffering caused by leaving whatever evil you are trying to correct, like a despot on the throne, in place. You want to wage the war

okay, okay, it's not war but some chick cut me off on the road and I almost crashed my car. so I want right a wrong by kicking her ass. I think I can kick her ass and I also think if I beat her severly enough and it should be pretty easy then she can never cut me off again. Next time I might wind up crashing and gettin killed. Just a question

 

[beefybull]

Originally posted by skaman607
Do you agree with these? Do you think the US is following them?

1- The war must be to "right a wrong"

Yep, we're righting a wrong

2- The war must be winnable. Fighting hopelessly, even against an evil despot, is not justified. Of course, which struggle is winnable and which is not is something best judged with hindsight.

Yep, the war is definitely winnable

3- The suffering caused, or thought likely to be caused, by the war is goingto be less than the suffering caused by leaving whatever evil you are trying to correct, like a despot on the throne, in place. You want to wage the war

The few deaths that the coalition and the Iraqis will suffer during the war probably wont match the 2+ million Iraqis that Saddam has already killed...

 

[HULKSTER]

I've grown sick and tired of anything or anyone related to the Roman Catholic Church telling people how to live morale, peaceful and holy lives, when the majority of them are either pedophiles or living high off the "church's hog". Pope John Paul II thinks it is so important to tell the U.S. how it should go about defending itself, while Pope John Paul II can't even tell his own Church's hierachy to immediately remove any pedophile priests. Additionally, the Pope talks about all the starving and suffering children of Baghdad. Well, the RC Church has billions of dollars to its name, so why doesn't the Pope, as THE HEAD of that organization, use some of it to help the "poor Iraqi's", boo-hoo.

They're poor and starving because they lack the will, determination and intelligence to organize themselves to overthrow a tyrant and his regime that has stolen the Iraqi peoples' oil wealth. Saddam used billions in oil money for his presidential palaces alone, and yet the average fucking Iraqi is starving.

 

[skaman607]

Re: Re: St Thomas Aquinas's Criteria for a Just War

okay, okay, it's not war but some chick cut me off on the road and I almost crashed my car. so I want right a wrong by kicking her ass. I think I can kick her ass and I also think if I beat her severly enough and it should be pretty easy then she can never cut me off again. Next time I might wind up crashing and gettin killed. Just a question

I'm sorry, I didn't have all of them up there, I couldn't find a document with all of them, there are 8, one of them is that is has to be declared by a soverign authority.



Thes points really came from St Augustine, but St Thomas expanded upon them.



I don't care what the pope says, I'm Lutheran.

 

[TC2]

Do you agree with these? Do you think the US is following them?

1- The war must be to "right a wrong"


2- The war must be winnable. Fighting hopelessly, even against an evil despot, is not justified. Of course, which struggle is winnable and which is not is something best judged with hindsight.


3- The suffering caused, or thought likely to be caused, by the war is goingto be less than the suffering caused by leaving whatever evil you are trying to correct, like a despot on the throne, in place. You want to wage the war

Yeah, but how are you going to trust a man with a name that rymes with vagina??

 

[skaman607]

Why wouldn't I?

 

[TC2]

vaginas and their owners are not to be trusted ever..

 

[TxArmyGuy]

I've grown sick and tired of anything or anyone related to the Roman Catholic Church telling people how to live morale, peaceful and holy lives, when the majority of them are either pedophiles or living high off the "church's hog". Pope John Paul II thinks it is so important to tell the U.S. how it should go about defending itself, while Pope John Paul II can't even tell his own Church's hierachy to immediately remove any pedophile priests. Additionally, the Pope talks about all the starving and suffering children of Baghdad. Well, the RC Church has billions of dollars to its name, so why doesn't the Pope, as THE HEAD of that organization, use some of it to help the "poor Iraqi's", boo-hoo.

They're poor and starving because they lack the will, determination and intelligence to organize themselves to overthrow a tyrant and his regime that has stolen the Iraqi peoples' oil wealth. Saddam used billions in oil money for his presidential palaces alone, and yet the average fucking Iraqi is starving.

your statements seem plain fucked up. I dont see why you want to bash my church because there are some fucked up people involved with it i've never tried to tell you how to live your life nor do I feel you are required to listen to the Catholic leaders or any other Catholic rep unless you so choose too....Why dont we bash every other religion for their share of fuck ups??I have never seen a statistic that has shown how many CONVICTED pediophile Priests are still serving in the priest hood(And if it were up to me they would be put to death for doing such sick things). this world isn't perfect and churches aren't perfect...they are in fact run by mankind not God

How do you know the church hasn't been funneling money in to help the poor and the sick of Iraq? If they can sneak in Millions into China to help those Catholics hiding their religion whats to believe that they aren't helping those in Iraq? The Pope can only give out so much of the Designated funds to help feed the starving...The Church allocates a World Wide Budgett, Each Region, and then Each country is designated some of the funds then raises funds of it's own in addition to giving some of those funds to the Vatican...

it's easy to look at Iraq and say hey why dont you overthrow your leader....Very easy to say, but so much harder to do. I dont believe it would be possible, if you think it is please Suggest how you would do so? Doesn't seem like very many of their neighbors care if they were to overthrow him so where else can a few get the help they need? He's got weapons, a massive Army, Tough Security thats better trained and better Armed. those who have tried to rise up in the past and who are alive today remember what Sarin and Mustard Gas do to those disobeidant, and the prision camps and being tortured or having their faimlies/friends hurt or killed.


Just some simple comments and questions, please dont take this as a rant cause I just wrote off the top of my head since it seems you are very angered.

 

[skaman607]

I think that the vow of celibacy should not be manditory, but that's strictly from a Protestant point of view.