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Spike Lee's "Bamboozled"

strongchick

Well-known member
I'm watching it now. Amazing satire. I wouldn't have rented it without the recent threads on this board.

What a trip.

The main character, Damon Wayans, is a TV executive....he tries to get fired by putting forth this crappy show complete with black face performing minstrel show style characters.

The show does well...and Wayans feels bad at first...then he accepts it, because now he's successful, for selling out, whereas he was marginally successful previously.

Spike Lee throws in his opinions rather heavy handedly - he mentions the Ving Rhames award acceptance at the Oscars a while back (Rhames cries and hands his award to Jack Lemmon), Samuel L. Jackson, Cuba Gooding Jr., all 'sell-outs'.

The film is a rather sophisticated exploration of how we take the negative, and trim it with scholarship and analysis, somehow making it acceptable. We are such sheep.

I laughed out loud when the TV studio head brings in a specialist to deal with the fallout from such controversy - she majored in African American lit at Yale, and Wayans says "so what - so you slept with black man in college. so now you are an expert in 'niggerology'?" So Spike Williams points his finger at the experts, too. No one is safe in this film. Educated blacks, blacks on the streets, blacks who work for blacks, blacks who work for whites, whites, poor or whatever. We are all responsible.

I'm not finished watching yet.....

oh yeah..and the radical blacks are so pissed they kidnap the show's main character, "Mantan". They shoot him...but really, he's a victim!!! They SHOULD be shooting the Wayans character...
 
and so Spike examines the crab in the barrel thing...the gangsters shoot the show's main character...again, bringing down one of their own.
 
i don't know what you're talking about. sorry.


however, 'the wayans brothers' is hillllarious. they're the reason i'm not afraid of black people anymore.
 
the first time I saw black face was in a Tom and Jerry cartoon.

HappyScrappy reminded me of that when he posted his thread "is you is or is you ain't" (my baby)

Yes, slavery was over hundreds of years ago, but these degrading attitudes live on in

gangsta rap
stereotyped roles in cinema
lack of good shows featuring black characters (though Bernie Mac's show on Fox is excellent)

And all you white folks that listen to rap - it makes me laugh - black folks selling themselves out to you for a buck.
 
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nordstrom said:
i don't know what you're talking about. sorry.


however, 'the wayans brothers' is hillllarious. they're the reason i'm not afraid of black people anymore.

which part do you not understand? crabs in the barrel? Once one gets near the top, the other crabs pull him down.
 
nordstrom said:



however, 'the wayans brothers' is hillllarious. they're the reason i'm not afraid of black people anymore.

I would bet Spike Lee finds the Wayans one of the biggest 'sellouts' in history.

In fact, I thought they were the main impetus for this film. Yeah, its cool to make fun of everyone equally - but who really gets the brunt of the stereotype - they just make it okay to see blacks in a negative light - they legitimize this form of humour because they are black.
 
correct and i have also seen it being done to asians, arabs, italians, jews...what is the point? I'm italian and when i see someone trying to impersonate one it makes me crack up and i take no offense. Even when it is a black man doing it like Eddie Murphy. Makes me laugh even harder. I have no problem with it what so ever.
 
review that speaks to MY perspective on the film

http://www.aint-it-cool-news.com/display.cgi?id=7450

Sunday, November 12, 2000
BAMBOOZLED review
Satire is the most difficult of filmed mediums to sell to the public and to critics. You see, for satire to work, it needs to offend and shake you to the point of self-examination. In BAMBOOZLED, Spike Lee does that… However, the problem is… Some audience goers, some so-called intelligentsia… well they come in, pre-offended and holier-than-thou. Some will walk away from this film angry at Spike for making them witness this film… And then throughout the film, everytime Spike tried to make you smile… these self-centered critics will hold that against him.
This is a complete satire, from top to bottom… not just of the pop cultural portrayals of Afro-Americans in the past century on up to today… but it is also a satire of the reactions that Blacks have upon seeing this material, the way Whites tend to ‘associate’ and try to become ‘blacker than black’. This is a parody of the entire ball of wax.
Now, I do disagree with some of what Spike is doing here… but that, in and of itself, is the point. We are supposed to react, think and chew on this film like an everlasting gobstopper and not like a stick of Wrigley’s.
I saw the film about a week ago, and instead of my usual instant pounding of the keyboard, I wanted this film to settle… to think about it a bit more. There is a lot here to go over.
Going into this film, you have to look at the satirist performing the satire.
SPIKE LEE
Spike does not believe in smooth sailing, he likes to shake things up… Through his art, he lashes you with pangs of pain… And when you come out the otherside you feel motivated to discuss the experience.
His entire career has been a struggle. He is a serious filmmaker wanting to discuss and film serious films concerning the issues closest to him.
Unfortunately, he is an artist in an industry that wants Spike to ‘lighten up’.
Now we get all angry at Spike when he begins attacking a Spielberg for making AMISTAD, but look at it from Spike’s point of view. Had Spike Lee set out to make AMISTAD, he would have had the door slammed in his face a dozen times on Friday alone. An ambitious expensive period piece?
Spike knows that the only way he can get to the point where he gets a $65 million budget for a period piece would be for him to ‘sing and dance for a long time’ turning a profit for the ‘man’ till ‘they’ deemed him worthy to tell larger stories.
We’ve been watching Spike trying to get his JACKIE ROBINSON film off the ground forever…. It is a story we would all love to see, but he never seems to ever get closer to getting it made. Perhaps he hasn’t made enough people laugh or giggle yet.
Meanwhile, he is always able to get expensive budgets for shooting commercials…
It has to be demoralizing.
So, to express his frustration at the entire system, to show how nothing has really changed. To scream loud enough to make people take notice…. Spike makes BAMBOOZLED… a biting satire at the entire thing.
Now I have read how some feel the BLACKFACE used in the film "isn’t funny" and is too "hurtful".
BULLSHIT.
In 1729, when Jonathan Swift was satirizing the Victorian grumblings about poverty and the taking of children from their poverty struck single mothers and throwing them in orphanages… He wrote A MODEST PROPOSAL…. He painted the ugliest picture imaginable, shoved it in the faces of the élitist… and it stung…. Stung only like satire can.
My father brought me up very aware of the ethnic stereotypes that have took place in American Culture… Beginning at a very early age I was aware of cartoons like GOING TO HEAVEN ON A MULE, SCRUB ME MAMA WITH A BOOGIE BEAT, COAL BLACK AND DA SEBBEN DWARFS, TRADER MICKEY… the Ol Jasper puppetoons of George Pal’s and so many more. He taught me the difference between these and… oh, let’s say George Pal’s JOHN HENRY AND THE INKY POO (1946) and when I was 8 and read Leonard Maltin’s OF MICE AND MAGIC, I learned that John Henry was Pal’s attempt at a public apology to the African American community, when he realized that his Jasper puppetoons were hurtful.
And it was actually through Maltin’s book that I first started to seriously examine the significance of the ‘black birds’ in DUMBO… or the ‘black birds’ in FRITZ THE CAT…
At the same time, I was watching the Ol CHARLIE CHAN, Sidney Toler series, movies that often times co-starred Mantan Moreland… sometimes Stepin Fetchit… Now I was lucky, my parents always taught me to look at these performances with an eye for the origin of stereotypes…
A couple of years back I had a chance to talk to Jack Hill about Mantan Moreland, who he directed in the classic SPIDER BABY. Now, he told me how Mantan hated the entire civil rights movement. How at the end of his career, all of a sudden the mass organization was attacking him and blaming him for all the racism that the African American community was experiencing. NOW, that was Mantan’s feelings. He didn’t understand it, because his comedy act was HIS comedy act… He wasn’t told to create it, he worked it out over years… and when you boil his routine down, it is actually very similar to Shaggy’s on SCOOBY DOO… But Mantan was soooo popular that his routine became a foundation for stereotypes…. His character was lazy, shifty, scared and loved to gamble. Now you could say the same thing about Lou Costello, but the difference was… Mantan was one of the ONLY known Black Performers around… And he played his character in B-movies… the films of mass culture, so when UP JUMPED DA DEVIL or SHE’S TOO MEAN FOR ME played in that small town theater… Mantan might very well of been one of the very few Black characters those hicks might have seen or paid attention to… So they instantly adopted and projected Mantan’s routine upon all Blacks.
And beginning in the thirties when Jolson and Eddie Cantor began popularizing Black-Face into the mainstream theaters…. Well, you would have them singing… but their production numbers were huge… gigantic wallowing edifices of watermelons, dice, catfish, fried chicken and booze… Happy cotton pickers.
Now this material has nearly been completely exorcised from mainstream media…. Trying to get a copy of films like WONDERBAR with its last… startling number… are nearly impossible to see.
Now I seem to be one of the very few people on the planet that seems to think of this as a bad thing… To me, it is an important part of history to preserve and study and consider when examining the history of pop-culture.
NOW… because of this, my opinion on BAMBOOZLED may be quite different from yours. I know black-face routines inside and out…. My ‘uncle roy’ was a dealer of radio shows, so I’m familiar with the old AMOS & ANDY shows… As a collectibles dealer, I am not only aware of the rare "JOLLY NIGGER BANK" and the other mechanical ‘toys’… And I am also aware that nearly every toy was also repainted as a Lil Abner or hillbilly toy too…
BAMBOOZLED takes this history… this century + of shameful profiteering… then moves it forward to the modern creators and purveyors of modern stereotypes… THE JEFFERSONS on up to GOOD TIMES and SANFORD AND SON… And then points out how we have all the funny sitcom black television you can imagine… but there are no dramas… no action shows… where are these?
Now, I might be alone here, but I was a fan of MANTIS something fierce. However it didn’t last very long when you get right down to it.
Well, in the BAMBOOZLED universe… we are in some future world… not far from now… where the world of Cable Programming is getting more and more desperate to shock and entertain. Boy, that’s haaard to imagine. Heheh.
In this world he has created a set of circumstances where a show… a minstrel show… becomes the hottest show on Television.
The person who created it, was trying to get fired… but it has now turned into his greatest success.
His assistant has become incensed.
His television company happy.
He has a pair of desperate innately talented homeless performers, who are desperate enough to do ANYTHING to get off the streets… so they don the burnt cork base black-face and the big ruby red lips and take the stage.
At the same time he satirizes the commercials that run during this show… the insane adoption of the show’s motifs by audience members… the militant groups protesting the outrage… The media and critics in their acceptance… the outrage of the audience…
And for moments in the film, you have a harsh look at the reality these images bring upon the really real characters in the film. Like Delacroix’s mother, when she is speaking to him about his show… the hurt on her face is tangible.
This film is an EXCEPTIONAL satire upon the pop-culture treatment of Black America.
And as such, it will offend… and it will hurt… but at the same time it forces issues out from being buried and into discussion where they belong.
Take a look at those old performances by actors and comedians like Rochester, Mantan Moreland and Stepin Fetchit… and compare and contrast their work with say that of modern day comedians like Chris Tucker, Chris Rock and others.
Take a look at modern day cinema concerning black culture… Are films like FRIDAY good for culture? Is there harm in playing a black stoned slacker in SCARY MOVIE… and if so, what is the difference between Marlon Wayans doing it… and say Matthew McConaughey in DAZED AND CONFUSED?
Watch BAMBOOZLED then look back on the past century of film… has their been progression? Is it enough? And is there anything that can be done? Or should anyone try?
Coming through BAMBOOZLED you should have a lot on your mind, and not just a diatribe about whether or not Spike Lee should or should not have used BLACK FACE in Bamboozled… Black Face was nothing more than an exclamation mark… and if that’s all you saw, then you missed the entire point. Watch it again.
 
Cure said:
correct and i have also seen it being done to asians, arabs, italians, jews...what is the point? I'm italian and when i see someone trying to impersonate one it makes me crack up and i take no offense. Even when it is a black man doing it like Eddie Murphy. Makes me laugh even harder. I have no problem with it what so ever.

I can't speak for cultures other than my own.

Margaret Cho, however, has spoken, for Asians for example. I felt her pain.
 
strongchick said:


I would bet Spike Lee finds the Wayans one of the biggest 'sellouts' in history.

In fact, I thought they were the main impetus for this film. Yeah, its cool to make fun of everyone equally - but who really gets the brunt of the stereotype - they just make it okay to see blacks in a negative light - they legitimize this form of humour because they are black.



i don't know. i still don't understand. what type of black movie would you find palatable? i never found the wayans brothers to be racist. they weren't stupid, cruel or poor. but they were juvenile as hell so i thought it was hilarious.

i guess i have to watch the movie.
 
nordstrom said:




i don't know. i still don't understand. what type of black movie would you find palatable? i never found the wayans brothers to be racist. they weren't stupid, cruel or poor. but they were juvenile as hell so i thought it was hilarious.

i guess i have to watch the movie.

I don't use the word racist...just negative portrayal reduced to stereotypes. I'm examining values here, too. It isn't just that a group of people is portrayed negatively - its that it effects us to a great degree in our day to day without us realizing it.
 
saint808 said:
hey SC, what was your opinion of "blazing saddles?"

Never been a Mel Brooks fan. Toilet humor, etc....yuck. I read something about his treatment of the black sheriff - sounds stereotypical, and typical - use the black guy for political purposes.
 
strongchick said:


Never been a Mel Brooks fan. Toilet humor, etc....yuck. I read something about his treatment of the black sheriff - sounds stereotypical, and typical - use the black guy for political purposes.


most people didn't get it... like your quote from above in order fo satire to work it must offend someone...
 
strongchick said:


And all you white folks that listen to rap - it makes me laugh - black folks selling themselves out to you for a buck.

80 percent of rap is bought by middle class white teenagers. The kid arrested with the Taliban was big into rap music at one point. Naturally, some media people have tried to blame his musical tastes.
 
musclebrains said:


80 percent of rap is bought by middle class white teenagers. The kid arrested with the Taliban was big into rap music at one point. Naturally, some media people have tried to blame his musical tastes.


Really? damn.....wouldn't figured that.
 
strongchick said:
the first time I saw black face was in a Tom and Jerry cartoon.

HappyScrappy reminded me of that when he posted his thread "is you is or is you ain't" (my baby)

Yes, slavery was over hundreds of years ago, but these degrading attitudes live on in

gangsta rap
stereotyped roles in cinema
lack of good shows featuring black characters (though Bernie Mac's show on Fox is excellent)

And all you white folks that listen to rap - it makes me laugh - black folks selling themselves out to you for a buck.

So white people shouldn't listen to rap or is rap another way of whitey getting some use and profit out of blacks.
 
Train Harder said:


So white people shouldn't listen to rap or is rap another way of whitey getting some use and profit out of blacks.

I'm not sure. I was just baiting the board racists. :D

Many of them have signatures with rap lyrics and such.
 
strongchick said:


I would bet Spike Lee finds the Wayans one of the biggest 'sellouts' in history.

In fact, I thought they were the main impetus for this film. Yeah, its cool to make fun of everyone equally - but who really gets the brunt of the stereotype - they just make it okay to see blacks in a negative light - they legitimize this form of humour because they are black.


Spike Lee probably wishes his projects would do half as good as the Wayans brothers do. You and Spike Lee would probably make a good couple. Your shitty outlook on society and the way it has treated you could be the creative force behind more of his movies.
 
whatever.

Spike Lee is a philosophizer. Argument for the sake of argument isn't necessarily bad.

go to netslaves.com or slashdot.org to see the thousands like me.

we nerds love to debate. It is our nature. It is how we learn. Join the dark side!
 
look, i still don't know what the point of the movie was. i just watched it. still don't see how the gangsters shot one of their own. or how 'in living color' was exploitive. maybe i need to be black or something.

personally, i think lee should attack blacks who condemn other blacks who succeed in life. some blacks consider middle class blacks, or blacks with college degrees, blacks who speak well, blacks who are smart to be sell outs. if you aren't poor & stupid, you aren't 'black'. why doesn't spike lee attack them.

btw, have you ever seen 'amos & andy'? they had black doctors, black lawyers, black judges. andy, kingfish & lighnin were negative stereotypes. but the rest weren't so bad.

was that movie about how by only portraying the worst of black culture can you anywhere in mass media? how gangsterism has replaced vaudeville or something, stupidity & passiveness replaced by self destruction & cruelty? Ice Cube was college educated & middle class. but he makes a living portraying the most self destructive aspects of black culture he can.
 
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nordstrom said:
look, i still don't know what the point of the movie was. i just watched it. still don't see how the gangsters shot one of their own. or how 'in living color' was exploitive. maybe i need to be black or something.


I mean that the lead in the "Mantan" TV show was shot and was a person of the street, just like the gangsters that shot him. He wasn't much different than they, until after he embraced 'the man' and 'the man's' values.

In living color used stereotypical characters - of every walk of life. They could be seen as exploitinig their 'own'. That you don't see this is strange. I never even opened my mouth to say this, back in the day, to my friends, but if I spoke to any of them now, black or white, looking back, they would say, yes, it was exploitative. Especially the 'Men on Film' pieces. Stereotypical black gay males speaking about sex all the time. Rather insulting, although very funny.


personally, i think lee should attack blacks who condemn other blacks who succeed in life. some blacks consider middle class blacks, or blacks with college degrees, blacks who speak well, blacks who are smart to be sell outs.


The film 'Bamboozled' does exactly that. In fact, Delacroix's secretary (Jada Pinkett) is called a sell out by her gangster brother. He also called her 'house nigger'. The exploration of this phenomenon was so heavy handed, it couldn't be missed!


if you aren't poor & stupid, you aren't 'black'. why doesn't spike lee attack them.


He does, in fact, attack this issue. 'Blackness' and being educated were deeply explored. This is a major theme throughout the film.


btw, have you ever seen 'amos & andy'? they had black doctors, black lawyers, black judges. andy, kingfish & lighnin were negative stereotypes. but the rest weren't so bad.

was that movie about how by only portraying the worst of black culture can you anywhere in mass media?


I would say yes - as Spike Lee is finding out, controversial black movie makers cannot get the money to film their way - note 'Ali' - is probably being done in a commercially acceptable fashion, given the 'sell out', Will Smith is the star.

First, you will jump to the conclusion that I attack Will Smith like Spike Lee does because Lee is jealous - but this is not true. A Will Smith treatment of Ali would be very different than a Spike Lee treatment, and since Hollywood knows this, and ticket sales are number one, a good, true film will not be put out there. And even so - that one would have to change their film to be palatable for Hollywood is a negative.

If you were inside Black culture, you might more easily see the differences and compromises made. As it is, we are not allowed to see the real deal.



how gangsterism has replaced vaudeville or something, stupidity & passiveness replaced by self destruction & cruelty? Ice Cube was college educated & middle class. but he makes a living portraying the most self destructive aspects of black culture he can.


And yes, he would be considered a sell out. Samuel L. Jackson tried to portray a real character, not some made up stereotype as is usual, in Eve's Bayou. That film was critically acclaimed, and in my opinion, quite excellent, but it didn't go very far because Hollywood didn't stand firm behind it and market it the way they do say, Shaft.
 
Great movie! Enjoyed every minute. At times the movie was very hard to watch due to its explicit satire and controversial subject material. The direction and concept was well written.
 
Regarding posts earlier in this thread- I loved the wayans bros...and why does everything have to be a black issue with you???
 
alexiarenee said:
Regarding posts earlier in this thread- I loved the wayans bros...and why does everything have to be a black issue with you???

i have a feeling you are mexican. Puerto ricans and other latins almost NEVER ask me such a question.

And I won't answer it.
 
alexiarenee said:
Thats ok because after reading all the other posts you have written, I have my answer.....

Strongchick,
She's a newbie and she has already picked up on your thread themes!

Why won't you answer her because she could be mexican or latino? Isn't that being racist? Also, why is it when black people succeed in life, they are sell-outs? I just don't get it!

When you start your new business venture and possibly succeed in it, are you going to be looked at as a sell-out?

You are judging too many people without enough information. If you are quick to judge alexiarenee, why do you not consider yourself a racist? Just an observation.
 
alexia


yeah. I'm a racist, prejudiced bitch looking for a fight.

Only I didn't come into a thread asking you a bunch questions. If you know the answer, don't ask.
 
HumorMe said:


Strongchick,
She's a newbie and she has already picked up on your thread themes!

Why won't you answer her because she could be mexican or latino? Isn't that being racist? Also, why is it when black people succeed in life, they are sell-outs? I just don't get it!

When you start your new business venture and possibly succeed in it, are you going to be looked at as a sell-out?

You are judging too many people without enough information. If you are quick to judge alexiarenee, why do you not consider yourself a racist? Just an observation.


yeah humorme. I'm a racist. Not worthy of you taking the time to review threads completely before YOU jump to conclusions.
 
strongchick said:



yeah humorme. I'm a racist. Not worthy of you taking the time to review threads completely before YOU jump to conclusions.

wtf? I read the whole thread SC! I was just making an observation. Alexiarenee asked you a question now be polite and answer her question!

I don't care if you answer my questions. Sorry to piss in your ice cream!
 
HumorMe said:


wtf? I read the whole thread SC! I was just making an observation. Alexiarenee asked you a question now be polite and answer her question!

I don't care if you answer my questions. Sorry to piss in your ice cream!

next time be more polite then. If I have to walk on eggs, then everyone should.

It has been a hell of a ride these past two days, and frankly, I'm sick of the accusations. If you think I'm racist or looking for pity, then simply ignore me. If you understand what I'm saying, then join in the fray. I'm tired of explaining over and over again that just because I have decided to address the ignorance on this board by speaking directly about race doesn't mean that I'm racist.

I'm not looking for a handout.

I don't see every single thing from a race point of view.

For the sake of discussion, I thought to post intelligent discussion of the race issue, rather than discuss things like affirmative action, which I've stated over and over that I do not support.

Fuck it. Obviously this is not the forum for intelligent debate on controversial subjects.


And don't fake innocence so you can get a rant. Go masturbate for fun or something.

Geez.
 
strongchick said:


next time be more polite then. If I have to walk on eggs, then everyone should.

It has been a hell of a ride these past two days, and frankly, I'm sick of the accusations. If you think I'm racist or looking for pity, then simply ignore me. If you understand what I'm saying, then join in the fray. I'm tired of explaining over and over again that just because I have decided to address the ignorance on this board by speaking directly about race doesn't mean that I'm racist.

I'm not looking for a handout.

I don't see every single thing from a race point of view.

For the sake of discussion, I thought to post intelligent discussion of the race issue, rather than discuss things like affirmative action, which I've stated over and over that I do not support.

Fuck it. Obviously this is not the forum for intelligent debate on controversial subjects.


And don't fake innocence so you can get a rant. Go masturbate for fun or something.

Geez.


I have no idea why you think I am bashing you? I am not bashing you. My post was in no way implying that you were a racist. I didn't type it with hostility or anything close to it! I just asked a few simple questions and you lashed back at me like I had killed your best friend.
I made an honest observation about what you said to somebody. The only person you have to blame for these "last 2 days" is yourself. You stated you come on here to vent your frustrations and to get a rise out of people. I personally believe you have orgasms over what is said to you on Elite.

If this forum is not for intelligent debate then why the hell are you here if you are so fucking smart? For your information, I was starting to like you because of the long discussion we had on starting your business venture and the questions I asked you to think about. Now I know what your true intentions are at Elite. Your intentions are to inflame people's thinking to the point that they snap and start accusing you of being a racist so you can go flame them and point out to others here who you think is a racist because you pissed them off. Everybody has a snapping point and yes even you have one too. The only way you can control yours is to tell somebody to go masturbate and go play with their toys. I wasn't accusing of being a racist, I was asking you an honest question about what you had said to somebody else. Get off your platform long enough and realize what you are trying to prove.

I'm off to put out Santa Claus for the kids so Merry Christmas!
 
Humorme

:mix: :bigkiss:

Oh, and strongchick--you're close, but only half right on my "race"...I am half mex...never been there though..would like to go....humorme wanna take me? lol :)
 
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