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slin and igf-1
- Thread starter krishna
- Start date
I was advised not to use slin and igf-1 together. Why? Well what does slin do? Shuttles nutreints back into newly trained muscle fibers. What does igf-1 do? The same thing plus new cell development. I was asked why I would run both together since they are very similar. Could not come up with a good answer other than "because I can
" So now my plan is to use 100mcgs igf-1 immediatley pwo ed for 4 weeks. Then I switch to slin 10i.u's immediatley pwo ed for 4 weeks. Then back to igf-1. I think its good to switch them up so I don't become slin dependant or saturate the igf-1 receptors.
Just MHO bro,
Good luck
" So now my plan is to use 100mcgs igf-1 immediatley pwo ed for 4 weeks. Then I switch to slin 10i.u's immediatley pwo ed for 4 weeks. Then back to igf-1. I think its good to switch them up so I don't become slin dependant or saturate the igf-1 receptors.Just MHO bro,
Good luck
liquidmuscle
Well-known member
i am using slin and igf now. http://www.basskilleronline.com/insulin_fatloss.html and http://www.anonymousbodybuilding.com/forum/showthread.php?p=20139#post20139
drrman
New member
just be careful doing this bro. The igf will make the slin a bit more potent, meaning 5 iu's might feel like 8 or 10 iu's. I have read where the slin will pro long the half life of the IGF, not sure if that is true. but i had some success running them together. I never went over 3-4 ius MAX with 50mcg injections of the slin. and i only did the slin with my post workout injection
swordfish151
New member
krishna said:
Im on IGF now (including it on my PCT) doing 50mcgs EOD...no reall need to do it ED..much of the newer research shows that EOD and even E3D igf-1 treatment is better than ED because ED downregulates the receptors too quick. It takes some time for receptors to be able to come back in full after a megadose of even 20mcg of IGF-1. So you may want to think about switching to EOD lifting and IGF-1 immediately postworkout every workout, or 2on/1off and pin the lagging muscle E3D. These dosing patterns won't give you pounds of immediate muscle, but they will give you hyperplasia, which means continued growth at very decent rates, and the ability to continue treatment for a long while until response diminishes.
swordfish151
New member
krishna said:
This is from one of my members (Grunt76) on Slin/IGF
Great questions. I'll start with some background on the peptides from back before IGF-1 was commonly used. GH was the first peptide to be used in Bodybuilding. We pretty much know what GH does and doesn't do and all that, so I'll skip this part. Then came along insulin. It quickly became apparent that slin on its own doesn't do much for muscle. It does make you fat but not much bigger. With AAS and tons of food, it's better. Later it became extremely clear that Slin & GH was the winner combo, the most synergistic combination around.
What few people realize even today - and it's been what, nearly 20 years of insulin usage in BBing, is that the very reason why slin and GH are synergystic is that when levels of both are high, the liver turns the GH into IGF-1. That's right, when doing slin & GH, you are in fact using these because your body makes more IGF-1 with them. So it isn't the slin OR the GH nor actually the compounding of the effects of each, but rather good old IGF-1. Even the name Insulinlike Growth Factor, has been made such because of the origin of the compound in Insulin and Growth Hormone.
Now, the IGF-1 from slin & GH is not long R3 IGF-1, it's hIGF-1. It's different and possibly the effects are somewhat different than when using Long R3, especially with regards to IGF-1 receptor downregulation, which is likely much lesser with the liver-synthesized IGF-1 than with the Long R3. No studies proving this, it is theory at this point and such a study will possibly never be made, for many good reasons. One reason why receptor downregulation is lesser with hIGF-1 is its half-life, or its very limited ability to run around the body and saturate all receptors everywhere. And here we join up with the EOD and E3D protocols which state that letting the receptors rest is extremely important to continued results. You get the same effect out of slin & gh because of IGFBP3 that mops up the IGF-1 within minutes of synthesis, which makes it impossible to saturate the receptors and lets them rest. Similar effect, completely different way of achieving it.
So slin & gh are synergistic. Then the next question: what about slin & IGF or Gh & IGF? IGF is synergistic with both. MOST of the effects of GH are mediated through IGF-1 but not ALL of them. Among the good effects of GH that IGF-1 does not exert is anabolism to ligaments, for example. This is just an example to show that there is a benefit to using GH & IGF-1 at the same time. There is evidence that ED dosing of LR3 reduces GH release in the body, so it makes plenty of sense to use both at the same time.
Slin & IGF is a different animal. Most of the benefits of insulin come from its ability to increase IGF-1. Unless you are diabetic, your body makes enough insulin. Eat more, it releases more insulin. More carbs? More slin. The limit to the body's ability to release slin isn't easily reached. Even feeding 10,000 cals ED your body can produce the slin to store that. Easily.
Am I stating there is no use in pinning slin & IGF together? No. There is evidence that shows that pinning slin with IGF-1 increases the length of the effects of IGF-1. Especially the hypoglycemic effects, obviously, but this has pretty far-ranging and beneficial implications, among which saturating the lean cells with nutrients and having a low blood sugar level are not the least. Obviously they are both hypoglycemic compounds so carbs have to be adjusted up when adding IGF-1 to slin, or slin reduced. I prefer the second option, although I am at a loss as to the amount of slin you would have to remove for compensation with, say, 40mcg IGF-1.
Personally I have not done this. Both my grandfathers were diabetics, so I'm not playing with slin. Especially that I have a natural tendency to go hypoglycemic easily. IGF-1 though is simply GREAT for me.
What I did do, over 10 years ago, is use an extremely potent GH releaser named GHB and combined that with a few ounces of sugar, the idea being of course a cheap version of GH & Slin. Obviously it worked great over a few months and it did produce hyperplasia, as made very obvious by the muscle size I retained when taking a 2 year layoff from lifting because of a non-training related injury.
Krishna, you can do it either way. Drrman and I use 100mcgs ed for 4 weeks, Swordfish and Liquidmuscle are fond of Grunt's protocol. I asked Grunt to clarify alot of his protocol for me since there has been a miniwar waging over at getlr3.com. We both agreed that there is no provable harm in everyday 100mcg injects. The undesirable side effects like intestinal growth come from large doses of igf-1, slin and hgh. The main advantage to Grunts protocol is that he claims, as swordfish pointed out, lower doses mean less downregulation of the receptors further meaning one would not have to cycle off like I do every month. He says one could stay on indefinately, enjoying the benefits of igf-1 with out having to come off. I am skeptical, might even try his protocol one of these days. But he has says he has been researching igf-1lr3 since 1992 and that to me is worth opening my mind to.
drrman
New member
Kachunga said:
good post bro
Im with you, i still believe 50mcg twice per day is my best option. I just don't see how something with a 7 hour halflife can be that beneficial injected EOD or every 3 days, but this is just my thinking. and my results were so good with 2 injections per day i just don't see any reason to change this up.
Cauliflower Ear
New member
i enjoyed all the reading...^^^as far as your post bro...i think it is because it does its thing immediatly post workout...it is not like gear that needs to build up in your system...the igf does its thing quickly and that is why it is good to do expecially on a laging bodypart....but if you got the funds and lots of igf run it like you want...for me if i got a couple mg's i would make them last...all the growth and igf i think is really about longevity....
no ego though...i def could be wrong...still enjoyed the reading boys
no ego though...i def could be wrong...still enjoyed the reading boys
liquidmuscle
Well-known member
i just shoot 60mcg's igf pwo and around 6iu's slin pwo as well. i have been doing this for a solid wk now and so far so good
liquidmuscle
Well-known member
Cutt29 said:
i think i will try that, it sounds like a winner
