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For what it's worth, I'm not sitting around waiting for answers. I'm studying, I'm searching, I'm asking questions of a lot of people. This is actually strongly encouraged by my church, as is reading and study of the bible. When I was six years old I was asking my dad, "If god made everything, who made god," and sitting in on my mothers seminary class because I was sick and piping up from the back of the class to ask, "WHY?" when the professor made a joke about toys r us being evil. I've never been shy about asking, I'm not shy now.
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lartinos
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it is tempting to make my future kids fake christians, not sure if it is the best route though.
where did you jump to that conclusion from what I posted???
It's like we're speaking different languages!
but you kind of are.
I never said contradictions were a "stumbling block." Let me put it this way, if you asked two people a question (that you really wanted the answer to) and they gave you two different answers, would you just choose to believe one over the other? Would you make your own belief out of a combination of the two answers? Would you do more studying/research to attempt to find the truth?
How is that making contradictions a stumbling block? No offense, but this is typical christian spin. This really comes across as a way of saying others are beneath you (stupid, lack intelligence. have too much ego/pride, etc.), because they don't believe the same way as you. This is just part of what will turn some away from religion. Nan seems to have encountered this type of situation.
No offense taken. If I turn someone away from religion, isn't that a good thing?
You can't understand the bible without a spiritual mind, and you can't have a spiritual mind until you empty yourself of yourself by making yourself small. They are stumbling blocks. Alice can't enter Wonderland without drinking the potion, and becoming small. That is a spiritual truth. The bible is a spiritual book, and again, you won't understand it if you don't know the author. The book is not a history or science book. The book is alive, and you want me say to people that it will become alive for them too if they don't condition their heart to accept it so it does not offend them? I believe this so much I get shake when I talk about it. I'm not trying to say that I'm any more intelligent or don't have ego/pride, it was a heart condition that I had in a moment in time one night while I begged for wisdom, the night I decided to answer the question in my heart if Jesus was just a man or if he was God. I'm sorry if that offends anyone
Your church has a cross, a pagan symbol used by sun worshipers since the time of Babel.
Does it have a steeple? Otherwise known as an obelisk, a ray of sun extending to heaven, a symbol Egyptians used in dedication to their worship of the sun god Ra.
Do they put up a christmas tree? Wreaths? Celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25th, the date previously celebrated by Roman pagans as the birth of the sun god Mithra?
Do they have an easter service? Egg hunt for the kids, in observance of the fertility goddess Ishtar, or Astarte, or Ashtaroth, the Babylonian Queen of Heaven?
Do they "remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy"? The fourth commandment of the lord, blessed and hallowed by him. The seventh day...Saturday. The Jews have it right. The christians celebrate their god on the day of the Sun, "Dies Solis" (except Seventh Day Adventists). A tradition carried on since 321AD when Emperor Constantine issued a law prohibiting work on Sunday, in observance to Apollo, or mithras (the sun god). In the book of John, Jesus tells us that to bear fruit we must abide in him by keeping His commandments. "Keep the sabbath day holy" is one of those commandments.
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No offense taken. If I turn someone away from religion, isn't that a good thing?
You can't understand the bible without a spiritual mind, and you can't have a spiritual mind until you empty yourself of yourself by making yourself small. They are stumbling blocks. Alice can't enter Wonderland without drinking the potion, and becoming small. That is a spiritual truth. The bible is a spiritual book, and again, you won't understand it if you don't know the author. The book is not a history or science book. The book is alive, and you want me say to people that it will become alive for them too if they don't condition their heart to accept it so it does not offend them? I believe this so much I get shake when I talk about it. I'm not trying to say that I'm any more intelligent or don't have ego/pride, it was a heart condition that I had in a moment in time one night while I begged for wisdom, the night I decided to answer the question in my heart if Jesus was just a man or if he was God. I'm sorry if that offends anyone
lol @ looking like you're saying Alice in Wonderland is a spiritual truth.
Do you have factual evidence for your statement? IS the bible written in a secret christian language, that one can only understand when they are in a right relationship with god or jesus? That's my take on what you're saying (not really because I understand your christianese, but that would be another's take).
There is actually quite a bit of history in the bible. It is merely several authors' accounts of their observations either at the time or recalled from stories told, written down much later.
So, what if one is "saved" or "in fellowship with god (or jesus)" during the time they are searching for answers and come to conclusions? So they are in fact reading with a "spiritual mind"?
Also, can one not have a "spiritual mind" unless they are prescribing to the traditional church theology of christianity (trinity, etc.)? Is there no other way to be spiritual?
Indeed, I've actually been to many many churches from catholic to Jehovah witness to God's assembly to later day saints to gospel and more, also for many years in my life every week I read the bible with my family and as a young adult decided to again read it on my own, I decided there are many contradictions not only within churches but among the bible itself and regardless of how much I think and try I cant and wont make sense of it, then I decided it wasnt important and that I will just live my life correctly without fucking with others too much, is there a supreme power? maybe... I just dont care anymore and Irefuse to spend my time wondering and searching instead of living my life and doing things I enjoy and sharing with others...
Your church has a cross, a pagan symbol used by sun worshipers since the time of Babel.
Does it have a steeple? Otherwise known as an obelisk, a ray of sun extending to heaven, a symbol Egyptians used in dedication to their worship of the sun god Ra.
Do they put up a christmas tree? Wreaths? Celebrate the birth of Jesus on December 25th, the date previously celebrated by Roman pagans as the birth of the sun god Mithra?
Do they have an easter service? Egg hunt for the kids, in observance of the fertility goddess Ishtar, or Astarte, or Ashtaroth, the Babylonian Queen of Heaven?
Do they "remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy"? The fourth commandment of the lord, blessed and hallowed by him. The seventh day...Saturday. The Jews have it right. The christians celebrate their god on the day of the Sun, "Dies Solis" (except Seventh Day Adventists). A tradition carried on since 321AD when Emperor Constantine issued a law prohibiting work on Sunday, in observance to Apollo, or mithras (the sun god). In the book of John, Jesus tells us that to bear fruit we must abide in him by keeping His commandments. "Keep the sabbath day holy" is one of those commandments.
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I know all of that stuff. lol DAMN (lol) you must think I'm an idiot. The early Christian symbol was an anchor, not a cross. Christmas and Easter are Pagan holidays and the whole nine yards with the sabbath and the tree. You are preaching to the choir. I celebrate Christmas but I know that it has nothing to do with Christ it is purely about alcohol and gifts.
and I know the roots of those holidays and symbols. lol @ me not knowing that. and lol - I wasn't saying that Alice in wonderland was spiritual truth, the making yourself small part is. I see the spiritual in movies and songs so I refer to them. You know what I meant.
Mabye we agree more than we think? I think you are more of a skeptic than what you are, and you assume, I dont know what about me. Possibly because I go to an actaul church? Who cares if the church has a cross on the wall? I know where that symbol came from lol. The actual church building has nothing to do with anything. I already told you I'd spit on the cross and stomp it under my feet. I didn't mean it like that, but I wouldn't be afraid to. That piece of wood or metal isn't special and means nothing. Just a piece of wood. Just because the pagans used it does not give it some pagan power any more than a church using it wouldn't give it any power. Who cares? ARe you suggesting I stop going to the church because there is a cross on the wall? We don't worship the cross, its more like a decoration. Does it matter? I think an anchor would look nicer but I like nautical things so....
I have no idea why you think I'm a religous gal?
Just because I believe in Jesus does not mean I buy all the other crap. Why do you think I still drink? If I was following some silly church I'd be miserable and abstaining like the rest of them.Do you have anything you'd like for me to know really? Or do you just want to argue? lol
Lets skip all this stuff we AGREE on from now on. I
uOh, and I typed this super fast, I was BURSTING to get it out. Disregard typos and thoughts that seem unorganized.
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I know all of that stuff. lol DAMN (lol) you must think I'm an idiot. The early Christian symbol was an anchor, not a cross. Christmas and Easter are Pagan holidays and the whole nine yards with the sabbath and the tree. You are preaching to the choir. I celebrate Christmas but I know that it has nothing to do with Christ it is purely about alcohol and gifts.
and lol - I wasn't saying that Alice in wonderland was spiritual truth, the making yourself small part is. I see the spiritual in movies and songs so I refer to them. You know what I meant.
Mabye we agree more than we think? I think you are more of a skeptic than what you are, and you assume, I dont know what about me. Possibly because I go to an actaul church? Who cares if the church has a cross on the wall? I know where that symbol came from lol. The actual church building has nothing to do with anything. I already told you I'd spit on the cross and stomp it under my feet. I didn't mean it like that, but I wouldn't be afraid to. That piece of wood or metal isn't special and means nothing. Just a piece of wood. Just because the pagans used it does not give it some pagan power any more than a church using it wouldn't give it any power. Who cares? ARe you suggesting I stop going to the church because there is a cross on the wall? We don't worship the cross, its more like a decoration. Does it matter? I think an anchor would look nicer but I like nautical things so....
I have no idea why you think I'm a religous gal?
Do you have anything you'd like for me to know really? Or do you just want to argue? lol
Lets skip all this stuff we AGREE on from now on. I
Oh, and I typed this super fast, I was BURSTING to get it out. Disregard typos and thoughts that seem unorganized.
Pretty much said it as well as I could have.
Dude, ceo, I know all of that stuff. lol DAMN (lol) you must think I'm an idiot. The early Christian symbol was an anchor, not a cross. Christmas and Easter are Pagan holidays and the whole nine yards with the sabbath and the tree. You are preaching to the choir. I celebrate Christmas but I know that it has nothing to do with Christ it is purely about alcohol and gifts.
and lol - I wasn't saying that Alice in wonderland was spiritual truth, the making yourself small part is. But I see spiritual things in movies and songs so I refer to them sometimes.
Mabye we agree more than we think? I think you are more of a skeptic than what you are, and you assume, I dont know what about me. Possbily because I go to an actaul church? Who cares if the church has a cross on the wall? I know where that symbol came from lol. The actual church building has nothing to do with anything. I already told you I'd spit on the cross and stomp it under my feet. I literally meant that.
I have no idea why you think I'm a religious gal?
Do you have anything you'd like for me to know really? Or do you just want to argue? lol
I don't think you're an idiot. Jesus drank wine. Drinking alcohol doesn't mean anything.
So is it ok then to worship in a place that has images/idols? Didn't god always instruct the Israelites to tear down the temples and ashtaroth poles put up in times of their turning away from him? Tear down the idols and temples where other gods were worshipped? Most crosses are front and center in the church. Do people not bow/pray/sing/raise hands/worship facing it? The building wouldn't have anything to do with anything except for people go there to worship god in front of idols. The Israelites did the same thing with the golden calf. According to the bible, God didn't like it then.
That's kind of my point. These things are all "no big deal" now, thousands of years later. Wonder why they weren't recognized by Jesus' early followers, until around 300 years later when the blending of sun worship with early christianity began? Do you think the early followers resisted these changes? Of course they did! They were persecuted and killed if they didn't conform. After a few hundred years of that, you conform. Now everyone is conditioned to accept things. The traditions/customs originally developed by pagan sun worshippers in honor of other gods have no biblical foundation. But whatever, no big deal.
Did god change his mind? If those things weren't ok before, are they somehow ok now? I don't recall the commandments being repealed anywhere in the bible. Surely he would have told his people?
These are just a few things. These are some of the ways of the Chaldeans, Assyrians, Babylonians, Medo-Persians and Greco-Romans sun worship system were blended with christianity thousands of years ago. The commandments/traditions of men being continually taught as the doctrine of god. If this is the "christianity" people want to believe in, great. Let them continue. If so much of that is man made, why is any of it valid?
I'm glad you're aware of these things. Makes it easier to talk about them knowing you have some understanding.
How did you come to the conclusion that Jesus was in fact god, by the way? To me christianity seems like a polytheistic religion (god, jesus, holy ghost). Judaism and Islam seem to have that "only one god" thing more correct. The bible has contradicting evidence for that one too, so I know you must have another source(s) for reference.
so the bible can't be found written in a language understandable to anyone who is not a christian? interesting.
I have a few bibles laying around here, written in some variation of english (I prefer the King James Version) that I can understand just fine.
honestly, that's the standard christian response.
I think an easier way to consider the church's use of statuary, etc, is to think of them (icons/idols) as conduits to the essence. People are visual animals and process much of their information through imagery. When the church was gearing up to present the Logos to the masses (300-400 AD or so, I guess), it was easier to illustrate sublime and perfect forms/ideas through common and provincial visuals. As far as I know and remember, the only *thing* to be taken literally was the sacrifice of the Eucharist, transubstantiation...that the wine and wafer are actually the body and blood of the christ...an act of communion to the essence which strikes up the soul's compassion for another. IMO, the pomp, circumstance, and ritual, of the Catholic Church, is to usher in, and open up these spiritual conduits, to be more receptive to the Logos. Yep, it's akin to good ole fashioned trance work.
I must also add, all Catholic Churches are not alike, they range from the Baroque to the austere. Many examples from the 5th to the 15th century introduced extraordinary and innovative architecture, sculpture, glasswork and illuminated manuscripts.
I must also add, all Catholic Churches are not alike, they range from the Baroque to the austere. Many examples from the 5th to the 15th century introduced extraordinary and innovative architecture, sculpture, glasswork and illuminated manuscripts.
Good to know that god is now cool with the idols. I guess that golden calf thing was his immaturity in the early years. He was gonna kill em all! I really am glad he's mellowed out.
Also cool that he is a cannibal! Sounds like a dude that puddlemonkey and SouthernLord would like to hang with.
lol! not cranky at all! I'm loving this. Too much really. Gonna have to take a break soon.
Just throwing out questions, playing devil's advocate.
It's good for people to think about these things, no? I mean what if Jesus was really just a man, albeit a prophet of god for the time (as his early followers thought of him), and not, in fact, God? Can anyone prove beyond the shadow of a doubt otherwise? One cannot even prove god, how would they be able to prove that a man was god?
If he is just a man, and people are worshipping him as god, and god's number one commandment is, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me," is god angry now that this has been perpetrated on for centuries? Is he "a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation," of those who are worshipping false gods?
It's that comfy underwear, isn't it?
But Jesus' first miracle was to turn water into wine, how on earth could anyone go from that to postulate that Christians must abstain?
I know, they justify their legalism by saying the wine is non alcoholic.
lol I knew you'd say that
Which would you rather be?
Of course you knew that, because you know I understand what you're saying in that statement. I also understand you're deflecting.
Perhaps you were calling me both a dog and a swine? you were the one making the statement, I'm just asking which part of it applied to me.
I'm also curious as to what the holy pearls you were casting were? Did I miss the part where you had all the answers? I'm assuming those were the holy pearls. What else could it be?
So, how did you come to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was god? Or is your only answer the canned "pearls before swine" reply? I can throw christianese slang back and forth all day with the best of them if that's how you'd like to continue.
As for myself, the testimony of Christ spoke to me through the scriptures. I did have to make a choice. One man without sin died for us so we could live. The truth of the bible is Jesus Christ.
gotmilk
New member
Lucky guy. Priest here assraped one of my friends for years and the church fixed it by reassigning the guy to another church.
Father James Talbot. Actually, he came here after touching mightymouse and ortiz for years down in the Boston area.
Of course you knew that, because you know I understand what you're saying in that statement. I also understand you're deflecting.
Perhaps you were calling me both a dog and a swine? you were the one making the statement, I'm just asking which part of it applied to me.
I'm also curious as to what the holy pearls you were casting were? Did I miss the part where you had all the answers? I'm assuming those were the holy pearls. What else could it be?
So, how did you come to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was god? Or is your only answer the canned "pearls before swine" reply? I can throw christianese slang back and forth all day with the best of them if that's how you'd like to continue.
I dont understand why people see Jesus as God if he is supposed to be his son.... weird stuff.... lol @ christianese xD
did you just now catch that?wait, what?
not at all. I just want to know what enlightenment you've had that I missed. If it was just a feeling, or some sort of personal experience, or some other sort of proof that made you come to your conclusion. Or was it the fact you were raised in the church and just went back to what you were taught at a young age?
I responded to that.
Also, I have a hard time believing every word of a book that was assembled from a bunch of loose writings, many chapters of which were left out (the gnostics for example), by a bunch of bishops gathered by a pagan roman emperor, who ordered them to blend this quick rising sect of Judaism the followers of the late Jesus Christ were preaching with the pagan sun worship (already thousands of years older than "christianity") romans were already observing, in order to unify his state under a single religion. That religion (this new christianity) became state law. It was mandated. The holy sabbath day of saturday was changed to sunday, by law. Under these laws, you either obeyed or you were persecuted until you obeyed. If you still refused to obey, you were eventually killed.
This is also where and when (325 AD) the idea of the "holy trinity" was created. That too, was brought over from paganism. Straight out of Babylon, starting with nimrod semiramis and tammuz. The "theology" had been around in pagan cultures for thousands of years before Jesus Christ walked the earth. Any theologian knows this (and a lot more). Many preachers know it too.
So how can anyone trust that book and the people that preach/teach from it as the true, unchanged word of god? If they do, they do so blindly or ignorantly, and they shouldn't.
What testimony? Was there a particular verse that convinced you? Was there more to it than just the reading of the bible? Like, you witnessed a miracle? Anything?
Also, I'm not having this discussion to "win" or to even fight.
Sorry if you feel attacked. Maybe it's just too much for where you are in your "walk"? I've got a good number of years of fairly serious study put into this, and I'm not even scratching the surface. Hard to read how it's being delivered over teh internets too. Straightforward delivery may come across as trying to fight, but that's not the case. I like it when people challenge me, I mistakenly think others may enjoy it too.
Overwhelming?
I would not call christianeese straightforward delivery.
You've posted nothing I have not heard before, nothing I have not looked up or read in church history. Not new information. It would take me hours to reply to what you asked about the trinity with the sources I know you'd want (I don't believe a trinitarian belief is required), and what I could add to what you've posted about church history. What's the point? What purpose is this going to serve? I'm not an evangelical and I'm not here to try to convince you of anything. I already spent hours on this yesterday. I don't have the energy for this and I don't need this. You already know what my answers are going to be before I post them. I've been down this road before. I just get tired. If I can't trust the bible, I can't trust God. Without Jesus, I have no hope. If one day I accept that Jesus was just a man, I'd turn my back on God completely. I'd abandon the whole concept and accept that God does not exist and I've imagined everything as a way to cope with myself.
Plus, its annoying. No one cares what I believe. I don't know why I keep posting about it or why I get sucked into these threads lol. I annoy myself lol
You've posted nothing I have not heard before, nothing I have not looked up or read in church history. Not new information. It would take me hours to reply to what you asked about the trinity with the sources I know you'd want (I don't believe a trinitarian belief is required), and what I could add to what you've posted about church history. What's the point? What purpose is this going to serve? I'm not an evangelical and I'm not here to try to convince you of anything. I already spent hours on this yesterday. I don't have the energy for this and I don't need this. You already know what my answers are going to be before I post them. I've been down this road before. I just get tired. If I can't trust the bible, I can't trust God. Without Jesus, I have no hope. If one day I accept that Jesus was just a man, I'd turn my back on God completely. I'd abandon the whole concept and accept that God does not exist and I've imagined everything as a way to cope with myself.
Plus, its annoying. No one cares what I believe. I don't know why I keep posting about it or why I get sucked into these threads lol. I annoy myself lol
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cindy, that (to me) seems like a ridiculous statement. There are hundreds of millions of people who believe in god, and also believe that Jesus was just a man/prophet, but not god. I'm one of them. Those people have hope. Is our hope in vain? Even if it is in vain, it's still hope.
I do believe in the (now) traditional christian/catholic doctrine (outside of some sects that do hold to a unitarian/nontrinitarian theology) belief in the trinity is a requirement of the faith and of salvation.
Am I right in my belief? I don't know. It seems to make the most sense to me. I'm certainly open to hearing new arguments to the contrary. There is no one right answer. At least not one that can be proved beyond the shadow of a doubt. I don't think there ever will be.
I think the world would likely be a better place without its organized religions.
I have to bite ugh I cant HELP myself! lol Why would a trinitarian belief be a requirement for salvation and who is the third part of the trinity if you don't believe Jesus was the Son of God? You believe The Savior has not yet come? By grace are we saved through faith....in what? What is salvation and how do you get it?
Those hundreds of millions of people are not me. I like it when you talk about yourself more, and focus less on me.
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billfred
New member
God was around way before Jesus. I can't see where those have to be attached.
What kind of God can't preserve at least one copy his own Word? And if there is no word, why not? He creates us to abandon us? He makes rules for us but can't preserve a copy of them? Or are there no rules? The OT is legit but the NT is not legit?
I don't know why a trinitarian belief would be a requirement for salvation! They made it so at Nicea, under orders of Constantine. Third part of the trinity? Who's the second part? In unitarian belief, there is no "trinity", no second or third part of god. He is one god. No need for more than that.
I said in most christian and catholic churches (all major denoms.) it is a requirement. The Nicene Creed? The Apostles' Creed? Those are recited every sunday in churches throughout the world. The Nicene Creed explicitly outlines the trinity (though it does not use the word), while in the Apostles' Creed it is merely implied. One or the other of these (or some form) are said at every baptism as a statement of faith/belief.
Basically, in most major denoms., if you reject the trinity (or divinity of Jesus), you reject the faith and reject god. You go to hell (they believe).
billfred
New member
Well honestly I think they are both a work of fiction but a good effort to get people to live the right way so I think they serve their purpose.
I mean, if you read a Historical bible, you figure out that almost every story of the Old Testament is from some folklore in that region that had been around long before Moses started trying to get things in writing.
Some people need rules to say this is good, this is bad. Others just have an internal meter that says - ok, I pretty much know how to behave without having to feel the heavy guilt of this Christian teaching.
according to whom? Churches? Well of course. God? You have a source for that?
WHY didn't we try and find some common ground weeks ago? I thought you were a skeptic, you didn't believe in God at all, and you were just going to argue your way there. I don't understand the idea of God w/o Jesus, I can't understand it at all...but at least I know wtf is going on now
Well, the Torah is probably more trustworthy than the NT, IMO. But you're right. How can we really trust the compilations of scribblings of imperfect men as absolute truth? Could there be some truth in there? Sure.
I mean, surely it is a good idea to not kill, or commit adultery, love your neighbor, do good works, etc. Is it true that there was a man named Jesus of Nazareth, who walked the earth, did good works and taught/lead many? I think so. I'd say that is pretty universally accepted. Is it true he was god? Well...I don't think that can be proved.
And I quote scripture because christians believe it. If you talk to some chrisitians on these matters and use no biblical references, they immediately dispose of what you say, because they believe the bible to be the inerrant word of god, and the ultimate perfect authority.
I'm one of those people. I believe the bible to be inerrant and if it is found to be otherwise in my eyes, I will give up the faith completely and turn my back on it all. I don't belong to a denomination and we agree on quite a few things it seems, but the the bible is my authority and I put all my trust in it. All of it.
I completely repect your belief though bro. I don't know why you just didn't say so in the first place without the bickering, I would have always respected it. I am going to hell according to a good portion of Christians and probably you considering I don't follow the law laid out in the Torah. It is what it is. Someone's got to be right and someone's got to be wrong and I don't know if it's you or me, but I still
u
I'm one of those people. I believe the bible to be inerrant and if it is found to be otherwise in my eyes, I will give up the faith completely and turn my back on it all. I don't belong to a denomination and we agree on quite a few things it seems, but the the bible is my authority and I put all my trust in it. All of it.
I completely repect your belief though bro. I don't know why you just didn't say so in the first place without the bickering, I would have always respected it. I am going to hell according to a good portion of Christians and probably you considering I don't follow the law laid out in the Torah. It is what it is. Someone's got to be right and someone's got to be wrong and I don't know if it's you or me, but I still
I don't think you're going to hell. I'm not even sure there is one. I don't follow the law laid out in the Torah either.
Besides, it's not my job (thank god) to condemn anyone to hell (if there is one).
Was it bickering? Just a discussion of ideas. I always thought we had common ground. Maybe we were just finding more, and finding uncommon ground at the same time? lol. I really enjoy these discussions. I'm sorry if they stress you.
well it is to my understanding that the bible is not complete, there are scriptures that were not approved to be added and there are other scriptures/documentation that the Vatican decided to hold on to and not "reveal" Fatima's 3 secret, why do they get to chose these things, how do we know it wasnt manipulated....
indeed! How could it not have been manipulated?
Though it is no secret that it was. Any theologian can tell you that.
Not any theologian would agree with that. There are two manuscripts you can trace, one back to Alexandria and one to Antioch. The King James Version of the bible can be traced to Antioch. Even in the OT God warns and says none of God's Kings are to go to Egypt. Would he allow his Word to come out of Egypt? There are only two versions of the bible since there were two manuscripts. You either have a version from Alexandria or from Antioch.
P.S I'm super stressed ANYWAY, my world is sorta upside down right now lol. I can't focus on anything. I'm on autopilot
P.S I'm super stressed ANYWAY, my world is sorta upside down right now lol. I can't focus on anything. I'm on autopilot
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Can you show me where, in the wording of that commandment, that the pagan symbols of the cross and obelisk are cool with god?
I'd like to know, since in other stories in the bible, he instructed that all pagan temples and worship altars, etc. be destroyed.
Since we're talking about the Ten Commandments, where does it say they're not?
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
or KJV:
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth."
I don't think any sane person would parse this in such a way that it becomes a ban of non-representational art or symbolism. This commandment proscribes idol worship.
what if those same "non-representational art or symbolisms" were used in worship and tribute to other gods?
You are looking at one isolated scripture. You should look at the context of the surrounding verses, chapters, books, and even concepts of characters. What you're saying sounds a bit out of character for the god of the bible, don't you think?
I won't reply to the other part of your post. I don't want to add to the stress. Take care of you and your baby girl. Let me know if you need anything.
Okay
I updated my thread about my situation but then I deleted the whole thread. You can still see it right? There is my update. Thank you. I already know where you would go anyway and what you'd post to refute me. I've been down that road too.
I can't believe in a God that creates us with a desire to know Him who can't even preserve His own message
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Okay
I already know where you would go anyway and what you'd post to refute me. I've been down that road too.
I can't believe in a God that creates us with a desire to know Him who can't even preserve His own message
I just read it.
Keep doing what you're doing.As for him preserving his message, well maybe much of it is preserved...just some has been added and/or changed.
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