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Ryanh, i have a question for you....
- Thread starter spongebob
- Start date
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Code
Guest
Now wait for the dancing, wirling response that never touches the question.....
the nature boy
New member
makes it hard to keep my stance on abortion after seeing that picture. however the reality is that very hand can be in the future holding a gun to my head if it was born and raised in very bad surroundings.
but thanks for mentioning that thread. It was real touching.
but thanks for mentioning that thread. It was real touching.
RyanH
New member
Re: Re: Re: Ryanh, i have a question for you....
that, and the fact that a woman has a guaranteed right to privacy. If you don't want a baby inside your body, then you should have the right to make a private decision about what course your life and body should follow...
spongebob said:
that, and the fact that a woman has a guaranteed right to privacy. If you don't want a baby inside your body, then you should have the right to make a private decision about what course your life and body should follow...
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Code
Guest
The "private decision" should have been made right before intercourse when she asked him to use a condom, or when she asked her doctor to prescribe birth control to her.
But if you're evil enough to choose to kill a child, then you really shouldn't be a mother anyway....bit of a catch-22.
But if you're evil enough to choose to kill a child, then you really shouldn't be a mother anyway....bit of a catch-22.
the nature boy
New member
look this is kind of a pointless debate. nobody's going to change their opinion, instead it's going to get all nasty most likely (calling RyanH evil is a good start).
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BO-CEPHUS
Guest
gymtime said:
So real life situations are not longer acceptable in a debate?
Interesting..........
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Code
Guest
Ryanh isn't a female and not able to fall into my template for that specific brand of evil 
In fact, I think he's a great guy with innovative ideas...doesn;t matter if those ideas run contrary to mine, they're still valid concepts and good ideas.
In fact, I think he's a great guy with innovative ideas...doesn;t matter if those ideas run contrary to mine, they're still valid concepts and good ideas.
RyanH
New member
Code said:
Well, you can say that a woman "should do this, a woman should do that..." but the reality is that until you're a woman and you have to have your body become a temple to another life, then you are really clueless.
You won't have the morning sickness, the emotional highs and lows......Easy for you to sit on the sideline and tell a woman what to do with her body since you have no idea what it's like.
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BO-CEPHUS
Guest
RyanH said:
I agree, but I simply do not understand how you take this opinion, yet believe the government has every right to tell me how to live my life. You think they should be able to tell me to wear a seatbelt, tell me that my money will be forfeited to them when I die, to tell me that I will forfeit a ridiculous percentage of income over them, to tell me that I maynot own an fully automatic weapon in the PRIVACY of my home, etc...................
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Code
Guest
I agree with you 100%, I will never make that decision. Which is why I choose to be against the idea of it.
But as a parent , which judging by your still intact Idealistic Sunglasses, give me considerable more insight into parenthood and motherhood. And my insight says that a fetus is a child and should be protected by the same laws that protect me.
Murder is murder, regardless if the victim is clinically a fetus or not.
But as a parent , which judging by your still intact Idealistic Sunglasses, give me considerable more insight into parenthood and motherhood. And my insight says that a fetus is a child and should be protected by the same laws that protect me.
Murder is murder, regardless if the victim is clinically a fetus or not.
the nature boy
New member
Code said:
here we go. are you for the death penalty?
spongebob
New member
gymtime said:
I never said it wasn't a life. And as long as you recognize that you're cheating a little here, I'm happy, which I'm sure was your main objective.
i know i was cheating, thats why i put the last comment in. im not disagreeing with you, i just want a understandable answer from ryan on why he doesnt think that, that photo is not a baby.
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Code
Guest
No not for the death penalty, but I don't mind paying more taxes to make larger prisons and have a Life sentence really mean LIFE.
But I don't shed a tear when a convicted murdered is executed, the felon made the choice to do what he/she did, and had a chance to live a full life. An unborn child is a true VICTIM, unable to defend herself/himself against a legal form of murder.
But I don't shed a tear when a convicted murdered is executed, the felon made the choice to do what he/she did, and had a chance to live a full life. An unborn child is a true VICTIM, unable to defend herself/himself against a legal form of murder.
the nature boy
New member
but murder is murder right?
I fully support the death penalty. And I support abortion. So I guess I'm pro murder. So be it. I'm not happy about it, but there are some cases where society is protected by abortion.
I fully support the death penalty. And I support abortion. So I guess I'm pro murder. So be it. I'm not happy about it, but there are some cases where society is protected by abortion.
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BO-CEPHUS
Guest
Code said:
We wouldn't need larger prisons if our enforcement agencies were not out arresting people for smoking marijuana, using other drugs, prostitution, etc.. We lock up these people for years, yet let murderers and rapist run free after only a few years.
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BO-CEPHUS
Guest
RyanH said:
Well that is something that everyone will never agree on. I read a story awhile back about an aborted baby living for 80 minutes. Makes you wonder....
Sad thing is I am no longer even protected by the Constitution because of idiotic politicians in Washington.
the nature boy
New member
already 2 pages and nothing has changed.
BIG SHOCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BIG SHOCKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Code
Guest
I wasn't expecting anyone to change their opinions, thats vain. I'm not smart, witty or savvy enough to persuade ice to melt in a microwave.
I just wanted Anti-Life Dems to get yet another healthy dose of sanity before they all go back to watching Real World re-runs.
I just wanted Anti-Life Dems to get yet another healthy dose of sanity before they all go back to watching Real World re-runs.
the nature boy
New member
RyanH said:
NO! Why would I ask you to change your opinion and not change mine (especially since we share the same stance on this issue)? I'm just saying that this thread, and the hundreds before it, and the hundreds after it on this topic will not change anyones mind.
Pointless.
the nature boy
New member
what are you getting at then? if he says "yes" it's a baby, then you'll say abortion is killing babies. Right?
the nature boy
New member
Night Fly said:
care to explain?
strongchick
Well-known member
I don't think any abortion is right.
But I'm glad I have the right to do it if I want.
Without this right, women could be subject to Taliban-like oppression.
Imagine a world where a woman is raped, but can't prove it in court, and is forced to have the child?
I think there are other such situations that even the playing field for women. It isn't so much that women should exercise the right, but the fact that they CAN represents a freedom.
But I'm glad I have the right to do it if I want.
Without this right, women could be subject to Taliban-like oppression.
Imagine a world where a woman is raped, but can't prove it in court, and is forced to have the child?
I think there are other such situations that even the playing field for women. It isn't so much that women should exercise the right, but the fact that they CAN represents a freedom.
Night Fly
New member
The Nature Boy said:
Sure...
There are several different kinds of abortions. You have those that are done in the 1st trimester, the 2nd, and the 3rd.
The 1st trimester abortions are recommended simply because the fetus has not had time to develop anything, yet. (well, a few things here and there towards the end) I am not going to describe how it is done because it is graphic, but just know that they aren't killing a sweet innocent child, because the child hasn't even developed yet. Just my .02
The 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions...are not recommended, but women have them all the time. These are actually destroying not the 'fetus' but the child...with limbs, facial features, a beating heart, and everything. I believe these forms are cruel. They are horrific to watch, also....and I don't have a weak stomach.
If I were to have an abortion...it would only be within the first two months of my pregnancy. I used to be all for it, but after going through my ob/gyn rotation for nsg. school...well...I would rule it out all together.
And...I don't believe it is JUST the woman's choice...because she could not have been impregnated without the man's sperm. It is her FINAL decision...and she will do what she wants...but they should definitely try to compromise...
There are the exceptions, though.
Did that help you out?
the nature boy
New member
yes, very much thanks.
I was aware of the terminology you used (trimester abortions as well as the actual methods of abortion etc) but I was really interested in how you thought that a 1st trimester abortion is not killing a baby but 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions are killing babies.
My question is this? When does a ball of cells in a womb become a baby?
I guess I'm just curious. Because I'm pro abortion.
I was aware of the terminology you used (trimester abortions as well as the actual methods of abortion etc) but I was really interested in how you thought that a 1st trimester abortion is not killing a baby but 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions are killing babies.
My question is this? When does a ball of cells in a womb become a baby?
I guess I'm just curious. Because I'm pro abortion.
Night Fly
New member
The Nature Boy said:
Well, that part is relative to everyone. I know that the fetus doesn't start developing into anything until the latter part of the 1st trimester. I would say about 14-16 weeks of pregnancy it would be considered a baby. Some would not agree, though, but that is fine.
the nature boy
New member
Night Fly said:
I totally agree about the not agreeing part.
Kryp2o
New member
RyanH said:
I wouldn't say it's just an extremist point of view, but yes granted you do have a right to privacy according to the constitution. However, what it all boil's down to is the immature decision that was foolishly made before intercourse.
Because of my beliefs I am against abortion, but if society as a hole supports abortion then it should be limited to cases where rape has occurred. Not just because two people decided afterward that it was a mistake and just did not want a child. That decision should have been made fist and foremost.
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buksoon
Guest
The Nature Boy said:
In Judaism, it's legal to administer abortion any time before Med School.
Tee-hee, just trying to lighten it up b/c this is the oldest, most personal debate out there. No minds will change--only feelings will be hurt and people might turn a little nasty.
Having been there on these threads (hehe), I can tell you it's no fun. And it achieves nothing.
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buksoon
Guest
Seriously, though, my mother does say that: "I can still abort you, ya know." 
2 of the big 3 reasons I have never run for public office:
1) Americans judge you and your political viability by your stance on abortion. There simply is NO right or wrong answer here. Both sides have great merit in their argument. I just hate to think about abortion, much less discuss it.
2) Americans judge you and viability by your stance on homosexuality. Another argument that I will never win with anybody because I could care less. It is a non issue...to be ignored. Finding that a person is gay does not affect me at all. I don't think it matters.
3) I hate the media. Just had to throw that one in.
1) Americans judge you and your political viability by your stance on abortion. There simply is NO right or wrong answer here. Both sides have great merit in their argument. I just hate to think about abortion, much less discuss it.
2) Americans judge you and viability by your stance on homosexuality. Another argument that I will never win with anybody because I could care less. It is a non issue...to be ignored. Finding that a person is gay does not affect me at all. I don't think it matters.
3) I hate the media. Just had to throw that one in.
the nature boy
New member
buksoon said:
yeah I've posted this sentiment too many times on this thread. oh well, people love to tell others how they feel even if other people don't care.
the nature boy
New member
buksoon said:Seriously, though, my mother does say that: "I can still abort you, ya know."
I find that so hard to believe! You must have been an angel growing up yeah right
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buksoon
Guest
The Nature Boy said:
I find that so hard to believe! You must have been an angel growing up yeah right
On the other thread, we decided we were gonna go with "fiery little minx." Please be informed. Thank you.
musclebrains
New member
I once wrote an interview with Italian food goddess Marcella Hazan. I included a description of her preparation of veal. The day the story came out, I awoke to find my front yard invaded by PETA people waving posters of sad-faced little veal calves in filthy box-cages.
Do you eat veal, Sponge?
Do you eat veal, Sponge?
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buksoon
Guest
musclebrains said:
My friend and I refer to younger men--when they're all sexy and jailbaity--as "veal." Succulent, young....
I'm allowed to joke (vegetarian). Okay, shutting up now....
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buksoon
Guest
Test boy said:You know...a big problem I have the "animal lovers/protectors" is that I'll bet a large percentage are pro abortion.
I love dogs, cats, birds, and fish. Other animals taste good.
Works both ways, TEst. Once I found myself at a barbecue held by this young Christian group. Sort of a "Young Life" thing (I was 19--sometimes you find yourself in strange places....)
Anyway, they were proselytizing about "going with God" and I was thinking: "you might be more convincing without a mouthful of one of His creatures great and small....."
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Code
Guest
Buk,
According to the bible, God gave Man domain over other animals.
I'd imagine having domain over them means you can eat them to survive. Not like God made the cow in His image
According to the bible, God gave Man domain over other animals.
I'd imagine having domain over them means you can eat them to survive. Not like God made the cow in His image
Yea maybe...except for the fact that the Bible is obviously pro hunting and animal eating. Men of the cloth are frequently hunters. I spent years in various churches...not one of them ever critized the eating of meat. The Bible in fact encourages man to eat meat.buksoon said:
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buksoon
Guest
Code, Test, what does the Bible have to do with God????
Anyway, it's just you object to killing an embryo because it's senescent. Can't think, but can register pain. That's any animal. And it's life, too.
Anyway, it's just you object to killing an embryo because it's senescent. Can't think, but can register pain. That's any animal. And it's life, too.
Test boy said:
actually.I am not sure where I read this.....but originally animals were not the domain of man to consume.
this only happened later.
from what I understand is that god LATER gave man domain over animals.
too bad I can't remember the source, but it's true.
by the way I like veal too.
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Code
Guest
Buk, do you have children?
Do you own cattle or livestock?
Are you trying to draw a comparison between children and cows?
I'm a parent, grew up on a farm and own several horses. I can tell you first hand, livestock and humans are not one and the same. So your logic is quite flawed.
And did you actually mean to ask me what the Bible and God have to do with each other??
Do you own cattle or livestock?
Are you trying to draw a comparison between children and cows?
I'm a parent, grew up on a farm and own several horses. I can tell you first hand, livestock and humans are not one and the same. So your logic is quite flawed.
And did you actually mean to ask me what the Bible and God have to do with each other??
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Code
Guest
Omega,
You're right, after the fall from Eden, God gave man domain over the animals. But since this isn't Eden, I think it's safe to say there is no connection to killing a child and eating a hamburger.
Page 5, wow.
You're right, after the fall from Eden, God gave man domain over the animals. But since this isn't Eden, I think it's safe to say there is no connection to killing a child and eating a hamburger.
Page 5, wow.
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buksoon
Guest
Code said:
Lemme see... did I mean that? ... whatdya know! I did.
I understand what the Bible has to do with RELIGION, but God, no.
The Bible is as relevant to my understanding of God as the telephone book.
But if the abortion debate was personal, then then one is crazy personal. Wanna shelve it?
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buksoon
Guest
spongebob said:
(always points for drawing a laugh!!!!)
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Code
Guest
The Bible testifies of Jesus Christ and has influenced and sustained millions of His followers. It is a collection of sacred writings containing God’s revelations and accounts of His dealings with His children.
So the phone book has more on God than the bible?? Or were you merely displaying a wonderous lack of religious understanding?
So the phone book has more on God than the bible?? Or were you merely displaying a wonderous lack of religious understanding?
musclebrains
New member
spongebob said:
Geez. I was talking about the use of IMAGES, not trying to start something up that compared calves to bambinos or open up a discussion about Christianity and eating doves, the very image of Our Lord (or whatever).
Well, I literally did not eat veal for almost 8 years after I saw those pictures. (They also mailed videos to me, called my voice mail, etc. Talibanimals!) Intellectually, I really did not oppose the consumption of veal but the sickening images made it impossible for me to eat even free-range veal -- those happy scamps mercifully raised free for three months before being pounded dead. Finally, I was humilated by friends in Italy, who laughed in my face and called me a sentimental American idiot.
The point is that an image has power that is not necessarily related to the truth.
musclebrains
New member
Code said:
Bing bing bing bing....
You win OXYMORON OF THE DAY.
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buksoon
Guest
Code said:
Yep. Far be it from me to understand how those rackets operate!
spongebob
New member
musclebrains said:
your story is hilirious to me, such human drama over a piece of meat.
to be honest, ive never seen a pic of them poor animals in that predicament. before i knew how they were treated, i did eat it. after being told, i havent eaten it since. i took the description and formed my own visual image, and didnt like it.
im no tree hugger or animal rights activist but that gets to me.
i only know one thing regarding this subject, and its that i could never participate in any way, shape or form in the aborting of human fetus(child or otherwise). i dont know how i know this, because i subscibe to no religious belief(religously) regarding it and i actually support(i do not wish to impose my beliefs on someone else) a womens right to choose.
i just know i know this.
spongebob
New member
buksoon said:
i have never understood why people feel this way. it seems to me your opinion of a "religion" and all that it implies is based on what man has misconstrued over time, and the things he has done in the name of religion, so your opinion is falsely based on these wrong doings. not on the actual concept of "god"
.02
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buksoon
Guest
spongebob said:
I didn't mean to sound disrespectful, was just matching tone for tone.
This is what I think: the Bible tells me PERSONALLY (could be different for you or anyone) nothing about whatever "God" is.
The Bible to me is ... sorry, but literature. "Jonah and the whale" to me sounds just like "Jack and the beanstalk." Just stories.
That does not make me any less spiritual or reverential that anyone else, even a Priest. Sometimes I look around me and see so much "Christian compassion" and think if it was replaced by "common civility" we'd be better off.
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Code
Guest
Well, with a closed heart and mind, the bible and religion has nothing to offer.
Only when you are willing to admit that something greater than yourself exists and that there is a larger picture than your own will you experience Faith.
I for one, know that what I read in the gospel is True. You may think I'm brainwashed or simply seeking an external means of comfort, and if that's ok with me. Just do the same for others
Only when you are willing to admit that something greater than yourself exists and that there is a larger picture than your own will you experience Faith.
I for one, know that what I read in the gospel is True. You may think I'm brainwashed or simply seeking an external means of comfort, and if that's ok with me. Just do the same for others
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buksoon
Guest
Code said:
Code, I thought I made it clear that I had indeed admitted that. Don't agree with your views, but my heart and mind are very much open, thanks.
And I never passed judgment on anyone (thought I made that clear, too).
Island Son
New member
spongebob said:
Murders, assassinations, plagues, seduction, cheating, lying, stealing, incest, war, blockbuster mass destructions - and that's only the first half. No wonder it's always on the bestseller lists.
Has anyone read the Koran/Quran, is it as good?
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buksoon
Guest
Island Son said:
Funny! (don't forget the ho's, though!!)
Code and others, maybe we're being "sacreligious" but it doesn't make us less reverential to whatever our concept of God happens to be. And there' no saying our concept isn't as loving as yours.
the nature boy
New member
I turn my head and you guys are still going at it!! At least it's civilized, compared to some of the other threads I'm reading. Somtimes this place sucks.
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buksoon
Guest
spongebob said:
Oh man, too complex!! I can't think now! The "concept of God"?? In the middle of my shitty week? No way!
I just think/hope that there is a being of Love and Forgiveness, who sees all.
So that none of are like the proverbial trees in the forest--unwitnessed whether we rise or fall. Someone sees. And understands.
Island Son
New member
whatever makes you a better human being - God, Allah, Buddha, Tao - and can be studied without another human as a sole intermediary has my support.
