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Robert Jan

Deus Ex Machina

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Nice article, have you read this yet? :D
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Happy Hippie Paradise No More

By Scott Norvell


AMSTERDAM -- It's not quite terminal yet, but the great experiment in tolerance that has been the Netherlands since the 1970s is taking its last gasping, breaths.


The country that became as famous for Thai sticks and call girls as for tulips and wooden clogs is in the middle of a nearly complete political about-face. And few outsiders are taking notice, least of all the American media.



The infamous coffeeshops are still there, but their numbers are down sharply and more restrictions are in the works. Prostitutes are being hustled off the streets. Immigrants who refuse to contribute to society are getting the boot, and welfare benefits are being rolled back. Law-and-order is in, multiculturalism is out.



It ain't quite the happy hippie paradise anymore.



Some visitors to Amsterdam will be pleased to hear that the smell of ganja is still pretty thick in some parts of town. But there are now signs beseeching customers to please smoke their dope inside the shop and not at the tables outside. There are still two menus - one offering muffins and cappuccino and the other offering Moroccan blonde and Dutch Nederwiet, or "superskunk," but the latter may not be on that menu much longer.



This week, the Dutch parliament is due to officially commission a study to determine whether the hopped-up superskunk is actually a "hard drug" (bad, in Dutch eyes) instead of a "soft drug" (tolerable, to the Dutch).



Apparently, European dopers like their pot genetically modified, but not their corn. The levels of Tetrahydrocannabinol (the bit that adds the buzz) in this superskunk has been tweaked to astronomical levels. Tenderfoot tourists are said to be having panic attacks outside the Anne Frank House after a few puffs of the stuff.



The center-right government of Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende wants to put a stop to it. If the study concludes that superskunk warrants the hard-drug label, the government wants to ban its sale outright. It's also asking local councils to further restrict the location and number of coffeeshops. Already, the number of such outlets in Amsterdam is down from a high of 2,000 to 700 now.



Clearly, Balkenende is not so much worried about spaced out sorority girls at the Milky Way. What's pushing this clampdown is the growing realization that the permissiveness of the Age of Aquarius has gone a little too far, that the balance between rights and responsibilities is out of whack. Tolerance, the Dutch have come to realize, needs limits.



Amsterdam, one of the loveliest cities in Europe, is also one of the scariest for travelers arriving by train. A boat ride through the canals near the Central Station can be like a Mr. Toad nightmare, with filthy women sucking on crack pipes and men with gold teeth and evil grins on view instead of rosy-cheeked Hans Christian Andersons singing It's a Small World. When I was 18, it was cool. Now that my kid is half that age, it's not so quaint. It's far worse than anything around Penn Station in New York or Waterloo in London.


Most of these loiterers are clearly not Dutch. They are German heroin addicts, Jamaican rastafari-types and English yobs. They are former bus drivers from Senegal and farm-boys from Turkey who took the wrong path. It is these foreigners that are drawing the ire the Dutch.

In the 1960s and 1970s, refugees were welcomed to Holland with open arms. Through the 1980s, the human rights-championing Dutch accepted tens of thousands of asylum seekers from ravaged countries like Bosnia, Kosovo, Africa and Afghanistan. Many embraced their new home and quickly began contributing to society. Many others clearly did not.



Nearly five percent of the country's five million people are now foreign-born, and a good chunk of those are minimally educated. One in six were unemployed in 2003, and nearly half of the country's burgeoning prison population is people with foreign backgrounds.

For years, the Dutch kept their opinions about this growing underclass to themselves. Then came Pim Fortuyn, the idiosyncratic head of a conservative party who was assassinated by an animal rights wacko just before the election in 2002. Fortuyn had the guts to say what everyone else was thinking, one fairly representative middle-class mother in Haarlem told me, but didn't dare for fear of being branded a politically incorrect racist.



The gripe isn't that there are immigrants at all, this mother told me. Most Dutch appreciate the benefits, economic and otherwise, of a rational immigration policy. But immigrants these days, she said, are not even trying to assimilate. Most don't bother to learn Dutch. They move into urban enclaves and keep largely to themselves, diverting ever-larger amounts of resources in a society that has always prided itself on its egalitarianism.



A government commission earlier this year put in writing what many here have been thinking for years -- multiculturalism has failed. The come-one-come-all policies of the past are now gone, and immigration policies are getting tighter by the day.



New immigrants and welfare recipients already in the country have to learn Dutch. Asylum seekers arriving in-country are processed almost immediately, and those without a case are shipped home within 48 hours. Residents under 24 are no longer allowed to bring spouses into the country. In February, the parliament took the unprecedented step of ordering some 26,000 asylum-seekers out of the country, prompting howls of protest from activists.


The Dutch are finally fed up, it seems, and they are doing something about it. For years, policy-makers there slavishly followed the diktats of the New Left and they paid the price for those policies. Now, the pendulum is swinging back and responsibility is back in vogue.

Places across the pond like Berkeley and Madison, Wisc. should take note.
 
Ok so they are basically pissed off that foreigners are coming to the country and becoming lazy drug bags.

So what do the drugs have to do with anything? The drugs aren't making them lazy. They are just lazy people turning to the drugs. Obviously many many of the country's beloved contributors to society use the drugs also.

Also, why are they shuffling the hookers off the street? Are they suddenly BAD for tourism now? or are all the hookers peddling hard drugs? What's the real deal?

Just sounds to me like some some conservatist got in office and is using propaganda to claim that certain things are making things worse than they really are, and looking away from the true cause of the bullshit, which is obviously laziness in people. You can't however put laws on, or ban laziness.
 
Happy Hippie Paradise No More
>> As far as I know it never was.... NL has far less pot smokers and junkies than say
France where laws are more strict.

Nearly five percent of the country's five million people are now foreign-born, and a good chunk of those are minimally educated.
>> NL has 16 million people.

One in six were unemployed in 2003
>> Yeah right, it was 5% not 16%.

, and nearly half of the country's burgeoning prison population is people with foreign backgrounds.

>> Make that 60%.

BTW If a foreigner rapes or kills someone, it is often not mentioned in the news, because that news might be viewed as being racist.

Apparently, European dopers like their pot genetically modified, but not their corn. The levels of Tetrahydrocannabinol (the bit that adds the buzz) in this superskunk has been tweaked to astronomical levels. Tenderfoot tourists are said to be having panic attacks outside the Anne Frank House after a few puffs of the stuff.

>> There is no genetically modified weed, maybe it is enhanced by cross-fertilization (sorry dunno the english word). It has never been proven that the content of THC has been increased in the years. Even if so, if you drink 1 liter of beer normally, would you drink instead of that a liter of vodka? No, you would dose according to the strength.
 
sigmund roid, where did you get those facts, and are they updated? i got my article from a respectable site, so that's why i want cites from you.
 
"Law-and-order is in, multiculturalism is out"

at least the Dutch have the balls to admit that multiculturalism and diversity is a failure. They are no longer afraid to stand up to the leftist/liberal drivel that promotes the diverstiy is our strength bullshit dogma.

Racism only exists in multiracial societies. The solution to eliminating racism is not more diversity but less. At least the dutch have figured this out while their minority population is only 8-10% and not the 40% as it is in america today.
 
Sigmund Roid said:
I live in NL!
You want cities of me? You mean names?



I live in the United States, but if I challenged a post you made about the US with no cites, would you just accept them as correct? :D
 
---- Disclaimer
While the statements of hengst are arguable they are not representative for the Dutch population.

Now first of all there is no sense in the way this article links up drug tolerance and immigration. I believe we need a more strict policy for immigration, I dont believe we should stop the way we have dealt with drugs.

the decriminalisation of softdrugs has been a BRILLIANT, HIGHLY SUCCESFUL experiment. Not only does it take the ENTIRE professional weed gangster trade out of business instantly, it also makes it possible to set standards for the quality of weed.

The exact same goes for prostitution.
It all boils down to this imo... you can choose two paths

A Have your law sound like the bible and completely ignore those parts of society that dont fit the image

B Make a law thats meant to result in the most pleasant/safe country to live in.
 
agree with RJ about the decriminalisation of softdrugs, which has proven succesful. however i think immigration and more specifically, integration laws should be tightened here in NL. luckily the first signs of that happening are starting to show. although, that could bring about a whole other type of shit-storm around here...
 
juicedpigtails said:
you sure about this?
I'm 95% positive. The way i see it, if you turn to hard drugs and let them ruin your life, you have issues to begin with to let them take over. I come from a group of friends that about 6 years ago were snorting heroin on a regular basis for about 3-4 months. I never got addicted, my close friends never got addicted, but there were maybe one or two out of the group that did and turned into scumbags. As of today, I don;t think there's any story book like super drugs out there that are so bad that they hook you on the first or second tries, then hello path to hell. It's mostly all in the person.
 
too bad things are going that way - I never got to get over there and nail any hot dutch hos....
 
There is just one flaw in the dutch policy of weed. It is allowed to possess (5 grams) of weed, to buy it at a coffee shop, but not to grow it. So the production is still illegal. Our beloved police which is wrapped up in severe bureaucracy and which does not have time to do some serious decriminalization is hovering with helicopters with IR cameras to check for illegal weed plantations in attics, and then bust the guys or girls ass with 100 heavily armed cops. This guy or girl only made a few bucks on the side to make life a bit more bearable and who did not cause any harm to other people. Now in the meanwhile someone got shot or mugged, but hey, the politicians have set their priority. I agree with RJ that legalisation (toleration) of weed is highly successful and making it illegal just turns back the clock 40 backwards.

There are two legal companies in NL which make medical weed, but their price is too high for the average Joe with cataracts or Parkinson. I propose to expand the legal market to fulfill the total demand with a standardised THC content.

About the integration, in my gym it is not enough to speak Dutch or even English, you have to know your arabic languages. Especially the young ones get kicked out because of harassing women, screaming, not cleaning up their mess, pissing, spitting and exhausting whatever bodily fluids into the shower with loud sounds. It seems that moslim men/boys always have to prove that they are a real man, but why do that by acting like pigs? The moslim women are in general OK by the way.

The moslim women are very suppressed, I have experienced that because I was involved with some of them. Of course a sexual relationship with a moslim woman who is supposed to be a virgin until she marries a moslim man has to be hidden like the darkest secret, otherwise you get into a lot of shit (dying and stuff).

Robert-Jan,
Do you have an idea to prevent deliberatisation?
 
The Dutch are united in this thread:D...I agree with all the above. The chance that weed will become illigal is very small IMO there just to many people that oppose to the idea.

Personally I think that all drugs should be legal ...it's obvious the war on drugs doesn't work and cost way to much money. More than 50% of the people in Dutch prisons are being held for drug related crimes. The money wasted on them and on the war on drugs should be used for educating people on the drug subject.
 
Sigmund Roid said:
Robert-Jan,
Do you have an idea to prevent deliberatisation?

I have no idea honestly.
Maybe we need a politician who speaks openly about his marijuana use and prostitute visits....
 
Did yall read the book or heard about it that was written by our dutch greatest legal pimp, a woman even, about all the prominents that are her clients. Bram Peper was a big one. IF only all these famous people would be like, yea i do that, why not
 
Robert Jan said:
I have no idea honestly.
Maybe we need a politician who speaks openly about his marijuana use and prostitute visits....
well, there's rob oudkerk of course.. :p
 
SAGAT said:
well, there's rob oudkerk of course.. :p

Damn, I just wanted to say the same name! LOL

Rob is our hero, although personally I am not supporting his lifestyle. Well, he probably doesn't get any at home. I am also suprised that Sagat knows him. Was Rob on CNN?
 
Having seen first hand the effects of legalised prostitution in both Amsterdam and Hamburg , I have to echo burning inside's comments - some folks know how to deal with it - most don't.
Just like porn stars (lot better paid) - how many posts have we seen on this board pointing out the inability of people to deal with the lifestyle?
 
Mandinka2 said:
Having seen first hand the effects of legalised prostitution in both Amsterdam and Hamburg , I have to echo burning inside's comments - some folks know how to deal with it - most don't.
Just like porn stars (lot better paid) - how many posts have we seen on this board pointing out the inability of people to deal with the lifestyle?

thing is you cant stop it.

Visit an illegal whorehouse/street and compare.
 
Robert Jan said:
thing is you cant stop it.

Visit an illegal whorehouse/street and compare.

Can't stop people killing themselves either or folks around them , doesnt mean you have to legalise it and you still try to do everything to cut it out.
My Mum works with the children of these kind of people and regardless of what you think of it - facilitating people's self destruction will not make society better - for those on that path perhaps their slide will be faster because it is illegal though. Legalising prostitution in Hamburg did only one thing - made Hamburg the number one crime zone and drug area in Germany. Think of it from the women's perspective for a change - you think you can do it for a little while and then get out - most get sucked in and become hardened junkies - if it wasnt legalised not so many would get involved in the first place.
 
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