Reducing watergain while on Deca...options.

[MrRTTB]

Well I can't stand waterweight an so when I've been on Test I always make sure to use a potent anti-e as arimidex, this keeps me hard as a rock. When on a Deca cycle it more of an anti-progestron we would like to have, right..Well winstrol might help, but is there something else that would eliminate the waterweight while doing a Deca cycle?? The things I first think of would be a change of diet, not to high carbs because they will make you hold lots of water, at least for me. Second, would vitex or bromo help in any way? Would T3 low dose be a help to get rid of the water I would gain. Anything else?? Any "experiments" done on this.?

 

[jc21]

how bout a natural diurectic like dandilion root. i have had good results from eas's nwb. helps with cramping too.

 

[serge]

Well I can't stand waterweight an so when I've been on Test I always make sure to use a potent anti-e as arimidex, this keeps me hard as a rock. When on a Deca cycle it more of an anti-progestron we would like to have, right..Well winstrol might help, but is there something else that would eliminate the waterweight while doing a Deca cycle?? The things I first think of would be a change of diet, not to high carbs because they will make you hold lots of water, at least for me. Second, would vitex or bromo help in any way? Would T3 low dose be a help to get rid of the water I would gain. Anything else?? Any "experiments" done on this.?

first of all, how much deca are you running? if its under 500mg/week then water retension should not be too bad, overall though, the only way to not retain water on deca is not using deca

 

[The Bigfella]

Proviron is always a good option and will provide the missing element to avoid sexual dysfunction at the same time.

Bigfella.

 

[serge]

Proviron is always a good option and will provide the missing element to avoid sexual dysfunction at the same time.

Bigfella.

through what mechanism will proviron reduce water retension brought upon by DECA??? explain, feel free to include references/abstracts to back your claims

 

[bigdelt69]

bump for serge.

 

[The Bigfella]

through what mechanism will proviron reduce water retension brought upon by DECA??? explain, feel free to include references/abstracts to back your claims

An overall reduction of circulating estrogen and possibly through a certain down-grading of the ER. Deca does aromatise, albeit only very slightly, but still can make a difference at least where water retention is concerned IMO.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catprov.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catdeca.htm

Bigfella.

 

[serge]

An overall reduction of circulating estrogen and possibly through a certain down-grading of the ER. Deca does aromatise, albeit only very slightly, but still can make a difference at least where water retention is concerned IMO.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catprov.htm

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catdeca.htm

Bigfella.

if the deca-induced water retension was caused by aromatisation then arimidex or femera would easily solve the problem, however its not the case with deca, deca elevates progesterone levels in the body, hence the water retension. the progesterone levels cant be conrolled through the use of anti-e's or aromatise inhibitors

 

[serge]

BTW, the info on bodybuilding.com is severly outdated

 

[The Bigfella]

Yes my friend, you are right that Deca is a progestin, but it also aromatises, doesn't matter that it does not aromatise strongly, but still does. Ari or Femera would do the similar job, but seing as the progestagenic content of deca is largely responsible for sexual dysfunctions IMHO Proviron is a better option of aromatse inhibitor where Deca is concerned.

Bigfella.

 

[serge]

Yes my friend, you are right that Deca is a progestin, but it also aromatises, doesn't matter that it does not aromatise strongly, but still does. Ari or Femera would do the similar job, but seing as the progestagenic content of deca is largely responsible for sexual dysfunctions IMHO Proviron is a better option of aromatse inhibitor where Deca is concerned.

Bigfella.

i agree completely with proviron helping with sexual dysfunction, but the original question was how to get wrid of water retension, not how to become a porn-star

 

[The Bigfella]

You appear to be missing the key word each time bro "Aromatisation". This is where Proviron will assist. The same holds true of Bill Roberts theories on this will post links to that later if required?

Bigfella.

 

[pittbull2]

Bump!

 

[The Bigfella]

Here is a profile by Bill Roberts on deca also confirming its aromatisation, hence Proviron aiding with water retention. I never stated it had anything to do with being a porn-star LOL, just that it also held that as an added benefit!!

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/deca-durabolin.htm

Bigfella.

 

[serge]

Here is a profile by Bill Roberts on deca also confirming its aromatisation, hence Proviron aiding with water retention. I never stated it had anything to do with being a porn-star LOL, just that it also held that as an added benefit!!

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/deca-durabolin.htm

Bigfella.

"To some extent, nandrolone aromatizes to estrogen, and it does not appear that this can be entirely blocked by use of aromatase inhibitors – indeed, aromatase may not be involved at all in this process (there is no evidence in humans that such occurs) with the enzyme CYP 2C11 being in my opinion the more likely candidate for this activity. In any case, Cytadren, an aromatase inhibitor, has not been found effective in avoiding aromatization of nandrolone."

what you are missing is that most of the water retension caused by deca is not induced by aromatisation, once again if it was the case arimidex would solve the problem much more efficiently then the old fosil Proviron, which no1 uses anymore for aromatisation anyhow

the above is the profile from meso-rx.com by Roberts

 

[serge]

Here is a profile by Bill Roberts on deca also confirming its aromatisation, hence Proviron aiding with water retention. I never stated it had anything to do with being a porn-star LOL, just that it also held that as an added benefit!!

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/deca-durabolin.htm

Bigfella.

"To some extent, nandrolone aromatizes to estrogen, and it does not appear that this can be entirely blocked by use of aromatase inhibitors – indeed, aromatase may not be involved at all in this process (there is no evidence in humans that such occurs) with the enzyme CYP 2C11 being in my opinion the more likely candidate for this activity. In any case, Cytadren, an aromatase inhibitor, has not been found effective in avoiding aromatization of nandrolone."

what you are missing is that most of the water retension caused by deca is not induced by aromatisation, once again if it was the case arimidex would solve the problem much more efficiently then the old fosil Proviron, which no1 uses anymore for aromatisation anyhow

the above is the profile from meso-rx.com by Roberts

BTW, i beleave the person that submited the thread is using aromatise inhibitor and still retaining water, hence the question

 

[The Bigfella]

Not missing that point at all, it was asked what would help and Proviron would help, hence the reply, it also leads to a certain down-grading of ER's and has DHT like anti-e properties which would give benefits over the pure aromatase inhibitors like Arimidex.

If the poster is using aromatase inhibitors, I'm sorry, then, but this was not stated, hence the reply. I also feel that Deca is a very poor choice for running alone, mainly due to reasons mentioned in this thread, and also poor post-cycle recovery, but that is a different story LOL.

Been nice talking to you anyway bro.........

Bigfella.

 

[serge]

Not missing that point at all, it was asked what would help and Proviron would help, hence the reply, it also leads to a certain down-grading of ER's and has DHT like anti-e properties which would give benefits over the pure aromatase inhibitors like Arimidex.

If the poster is using aromatase inhibitors, I'm sorry, then, but this was not stated, hence the reply. I also feel that Deca is a very poor choice for running alone, mainly due to reasons mentioned in this thread, and also poor post-cycle recovery, but that is a different story LOL.

Been nice talking to you anyway bro.........

Bigfella.

im only saying this because i had an almost identical discusion a few days ago, and the guy was in fact running arimidex at 1mg/ed, i think the author of this thread might be the same guy, but not sure

overall, deca when used at a dose lower then 400mg/week will almost always have next to zero water retension and still yield decent gains, but once you push the 400mg/week threshold all hell breaks loose, i have seen guyz run 600mg/week of deca and hold more water then when they ran 2000mg/test/week without any anti-e's; but then again those are the "elite" boys of bodybuilding and they can care less what they look like in the off-season, personally i dont enjoy the "walking water reservoar" look and so i dont bother with deca

 

[The Bigfella]

im only saying this because i had an almost identical discusion a few days ago, and the guy was in fact running arimidex at 1mg/ed, i think the author of this thread might be the same guy, but not sure

overall, deca when used at a dose lower then 400mg/week will almost always have next to zero water retension and still yield decent gains, but once you push the 400mg/week threshold all hell breaks loose, i have seen guyz run 600mg/week of deca and hold more water then when they ran 2000mg/test/week without any anti-e's; but then again those are the "elite" boys of bodybuilding and they can care less what they look like in the off-season, personally i dont enjoy the "walking water reservoar" look and so i dont bother with deca

Yup, totally agree that at 400mgs/wk and below, there should be no major worries with water retention from deca use, the side effects increase dramatically from that point up over!

Bigfella.